Birdingonthe.Net Recent Postings from Brit Col Interior > Home > Mail > Alerts Updated on Friday, February 3 at 05:02 PM EST The most recently received Mail is at the top.	Bubo

3 Feb Feb. listing [Laure Neish ] 3 Feb Ventura Ranch KOA [Chris Siddle ] 2 Feb Kelowna raptors [Chris Charlesworth ] 02 Feb VARC Spring Workshops ["Derek Matthews" ] 1 Feb RE: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull ["Rick Howie" ] 01 Feb Re: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull [Russell Cannings ] 1 Feb RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull [] 1 Feb Re: another Lesser Black-backed Gull [Chris Charlesworth ] 01 Feb RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull [Russell Cannings ] 31 Jan RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull ["Rick Howie" ] 31 Jan another Lesser Black-backed Gull [Chris Charlesworth ] 30 Jan Lesser Black-backed & Glaucous Gull in Vernon [Chris Charlesworth ] 29 Jan RE: Redpolls again ["Rick Howie" ] 29 Jan Redpolls again ["Rick Howie" ] 30 Jan Re: Hoary Redpoll ? ["douglasbrown01" ] 29 Jan Re: Re: Hoary Redpoll ? [Laure Neish ] 29 Jan Re: Hoary Redpoll ? ["douglasbrown01" ] 29 Jan VARC - 2011 Year end Report ["Derek Matthews" ] 29 Jan Re: Hoary Redpoll ? [Laure Neish ] 28 Jan RE: Hoary Redpoll ? [Chris Charlesworth ] 28 Jan Hoary Redpoll ? [Laure Neish ] 28 Jan RE: spotted towhee ["Katharine Shewchuk" ] 28 Jan Re: Still on the search for Snowy ["amanda.lahaie" ] 28 Jan spotted towhee [Janna Leslie ] 27 Jan RE: thrasher dip ["Rick Howie" ] 27 Jan Re: South Okanagan birding ["A & J Ginns" ] 27 Jan thrasher dip [Chris Siddle ] 27 Jan RE: Sacramento Nat'l Wildlife Refuge ["Wayne Weber" ] 26 Jan Chichester [Chris Charlesworth ] 26 Jan Re: Still on the search for Snowy [Jim Mitchell ] 26 Jan RE: Still on the search for Snowy ["Katharine Shewchuk" ] 26 Jan South Okanagan birding [Laure Neish ] 26 Jan RE: Eurasian Collared doves ["Bob and Maggie" ] 26 Jan Still on the search for Snowy ["amanda.lahaie" ] 26 Jan Eurasian Collared doves [Tammy Proctor ] 25 Jan Sacramento Nat'l Wildlife Refuge [Chris Siddle ] 25 Jan Kelowna birding [Chris Charlesworth ] 25 Jan Re: Interesting yard bird [] 25 Jan Interesting yard bird [Laure Neish ] 24 Jan Collared Swans ["Rick Howie" ] 24 Jan New file uploaded to bcintbird [] 23 Jan Re: Re: Bird Population Estimates [Fidel Castro ] 23 Jan bohemian waxwings [Janna Leslie ] 23 Jan RE: Re: Bird Population Estimates ["Dick Cannings" ] 23 Jan RE: Re: Bird Population Estimates ["Dick Cannings" ] 23 Jan RE: Re: Bird Population Estimates ["Rick Howie" ] 23 Jan Re: Bird Population Estimates ["mcbirder" ] 22 Jan Bohemian Waxwings at last ["Dick Cannings" ] 22 Jan Summerland report for January 22nd [Laurie Rockwell ] 22 Jan Re: Bird Population Estimates ["Dianne C." ] 20 Jan Re: Hummingbird feeding in winter [Jack Bowling ] 20 Jan Kelowna area birds [Chris Charlesworth ] 20 Jan VCR alert -- Harris’s Hawks in the Sonoran Desert ["Bill Z" ] 20 Jan RE: Re: Bird feeding article ["Carol" ] 20 Jan RE: Urbanization Effects on Birds ["Rick Howie" ] 20 Jan Urbanization Effects on Birds ["Rick Howie" ] 20 Jan Re: Re: Bird feeding article [Laurie Rockwell ] 20 Jan RE: Hummingbird feeding in winter ["Dick Cannings" ] 20 Jan RE: Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... ["Rick Howie" ] 20 Jan Re: Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... [Gwynneth Wilson ] 20 Jan Re: Hummingbird feeding in winter [Fidel Castro ] 20 Jan Re: Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... [Chris Siddle ] 20 Jan Re: Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... [Fidel Castro ] 20 Jan RE: Hummingbird feeding in winter ["Rick Howie" ] 20 Jan Re: email group debates [Russell Cannings ] 20 Jan Re: Hummingbird feeding in winter [Jim Mitchell ] 20 Jan Re: Re: Bird feeding article [Jim Mitchell ] 20 Jan Hummingbird feeding in winter ["marven007ca" ] 20 Jan RE: Re: Bird feeding article [Russell Cannings ] 20 Jan RE: Re: Bird feeding article [Jason Rogers ] 20 Jan Re: Re: Bird feeding article [Jim Mitchell ] 20 Jan RE: Landscaping and Biodiversity ["Rick Howie" ] 20 Jan Re: RE: Re: Bird feeding article [Russell Cannings ] 19 Jan RE: Landscaping and Biodiversity ["Carol" ] 19 Jan Landscaping and Biodiversity ["Rick Howie" ] 20 Jan Re: Bird feeding article ["mcbirder" ] Subject: Feb. listing From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:52:59 -0800 To help kick start the list for this month, here are some yard birds: Common Redpoll - still have about 20 visiting the seed piles Varied Thrush - still a lurker Great Horned Owl - its a regular hoot-nanny in the neighbourhood with 2 pairs calling at many hours of the day and night American Goldfinch Pine Siskin Clark's Nutcracker Steller's Jay Song Sparrow Sharp-shinned Hawk This morning I didn't find much at the frozen Penticton marina so I headed up the road to the landfill where I could easily pick out the large pale mantled GLAUCOUS GULL adult in the flock of scavengers. There were five Bald Eagles and scads of Common Ravens including this one on a side road. The caption could read "I'm glad someone is picking up these Tim's cups!" http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p125933063/h2786179f#h2786179f At Middle Bench Rd. a dark morph hawk stood, even from a distance of about 100m so I pulled over and waited for it so fly. Just to make sure it was a Red-tail dark morph. Finally it left its perch and flew straight towards me, eyes on a meadow mammal, but it didn't catch anything, so flew back up to the tree again and showed its chestnut tail with wide terminal band. I don't see too many dark morph Red-tails around here. First of several photos, perched and in flight http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p505314990/h3878b8ba#h3878b8ba Gotta love this sunshine! -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Ventura Ranch KOA From: Chris Siddle <chris.siddle AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:11:26 -0800 Hi birders, Sonja and I settled into a KOA a few miles west of Santa Paula, California, within about 35 mins of Ventura where we were to board the Island Packers Boat for Santa Cruz Island. The Saturday before the cruise we explored Santa Barbara, declaring that it really wasn't going to be a birding day as such. so it was ironic that I should end up with the most year birds of the trip so far - 23 of them. The first was the best, in my books. Two scrub jays visited our camp site to protest loudly but briefly at the long dead growth hanging from the top of a palm. When I looked up the palm's "grass skirt' I was pleased to see a white-faced Barn Owl trying to catch some z's, or zeds. After a visit to downtown, the SB Museum of Natural History, and the SB Botanic Gardens, we went a little west to Goleta and Coal Oil Point where shorebirds were clustering in a rocky headland trying to avoid the hordes of university kids who were enjoying the sunset. Marbled Godwits, Whimbrels, Willets, Black-billed Plovers, a Black Turnstone, Royal Terns, and Heermann's Gulls were all year birds, not that I am keeping a year's list. California Towhees, a White-tailed Kite, Anna's Hummingbirds, Semipalmated Plovers, a Cooper's Hawk, Pied-billed Grebes, and Ruddy Ducks were around nearby Devereux Slough. You may be able to see how it wasn't hard to see 56 species while "not birding". Next time, our voyage to Santa Cruz Island... Until then, good birding. Chris Siddle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Kelowna raptors From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 22:16:56 -0800 Birders, Today I visited the open country that is the Kelowna Airport. Unfortunately nothing large and snowy white, but I did get a ROUGH-LEGGED HAWK, several RED-TAILED HAWKS, an imm. NORTHERN HARRIER, 2 ad. GOLDEN EAGLES, a MERLIN, an AMERICAN KESTREL and two COOPER'S HAWKS in the area. Up at the feedlot there were hundreds of RED-WINGED BLACKBIRDS, as well as maybe a couple of dozen BREWER'S BLACKBIRDS. In the Country Roads neighborhood at the N. end of the Kelowna Airport I finally had my BOHEMIAN WAXWINGS for the year as a flock of 100 moved through. I checked through a large flock of WHITE-CROWNED SPARROWS along Lakha Rd, but couldn't find anything different. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: VARC Spring Workshops From: "Derek Matthews" <Derek AT birdvancouver.com> Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 21:29:39 -0000 The Vancouver Avian Research Centre has just posted spring dates for Bird Monitoring and Banding and Bird Identification Workshops. Bird Identification Workshop: • April 28 – 29 Bird Monitoring and Banding Workshop: • May 11 – 13 • June 8 - 10 The Bird Identification Workshop is designed for beginner and intermediate birders who may wish to participate in citizen science projects such as the BC Breeding Bird Atlas or similar programs or who just want to take their bird knowledge and identification skills to the next level. This course covers groups, topography, field marks, song, habitat, molt, ageing and more and includes a guided field session to the Colony Farm banding station. Although developed for beginner and intermediate birders the ornithological aspects of the course benefit even the most experienced birders and the workshop is invaluable for birders traveling overseas. The Bird Monitoring and Banding Workshop is designed for people with little or no bird banding or bird in the hand experience and provides a fantastic opportunity to see birds up close and personal, to learn about their plumage, molt sequences and life habits. Most of all, these workshops are designed to be a fun and interesting experience and a way to take your interest in birds and the environment to the next level. See what people who have attended the workshops have to say and why the average rating from course participants is 9.5 out of 10!! http://www.birdvancouver.com/testimonials.html Full details of course schedules and content and registration information can be found online at: http://www.birdvancouver.com/workshops.html Derek Matthews Vancouver Avian Research Centre www.birdvancouver.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 23:17:00 -0800 Yes, makes for good speculation Russ. The Anything Larus site claims that as of July 2011, there has been no record of a pure pair of LBBG breeding in continental NA. Apparently, there has been some hybridization with HEGU on Appledore Island in Maine. Given that many hundreds are wintering along the eastern seaboard and they are regular in winter out to Colorado (and the Okanagan apparently), can pure breeding pairs be far behind? Now as I see municipalities doing a better job of managing their landfills and open faces become smaller, there is less feeding habitat of that type at least, being maintained around the interior. It will be interesting to see if there are any shifts in wintering gulls away from more tightly-controlled landfills. Our gull numbers were certainly down at Kamloops on CBC day as there was very little exposed garbage available. Even raven numbers were down dramatically. If I can get some time ahead, I may need to write the little Lesser paper. Rick Howie From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russell Cannings Sent: February-01-12 10:15 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull Certainly an intriguing mystery Rick, I would think that if these birds were dispersing randomly all the way from Greenland, they would be showing up more on the Pacific coast where there are a lot more birders and gulls. As far as I know, only 1 LBBG has been photographed in coastal British Columbia along with only a small handful of unconfirmed reports (this is off the top of my head). One similarity between the wintering "population" in BC, and the larger one (~30) in Colorado, is the presence of Herring Gulls (which are pretty scarce in coastal BC during the winter). The same can obviously be said (in regards to mingling w. Herrings) for the Atlantic seaboard, and indeed the breeding areas of Iceland etc. I also wonder if there could be a few unknown breeding sites that we don't know about that are further west--say on some islands in the middle of Manitoba somewhere? Just throwin' it out there. Now if only Slaty-backed Gulls could start invading... any time please. Russ Cannings Burnaby, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: r.howie AT shaw.ca Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 1:56 pm Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull To: "bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com " > > > > The Anything Larus website speculates that the increase in > numbers of LBBG on the east coast is possibly due to invasion > from the expanding Greenland population as we have explored > before on thid chat line. Postulating a trans-continental drift > pattern is interesting. Do HEGU do this? Whatever the mechanisms > and processes at work here, I think having a summary document > for BC would be a good resource. Outlets such as the BCFO > journal or Wildlife Afield would be good places to start. Rick > Howie, Kamloops. > > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Russell Cannings > > > Sender: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:30:56 > > To: > > > Reply-to: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > > > Hi Rick and others, > > > > I wonder if it has something to do with the birds that they are > mingling with either on the nesting grounds or post-breeding. I > would guess it they are flocking with Herring Gulls. Since the > Central Okanagan probably hosts the largest Herring Gull > wintering population in BC, and indeed the largest winter-gull > concentration in the interior, it makes sense that this is where > "LBBGs" would turn up. They seem to be turning up with > increasing frequency in the interior of North American, and > Vernon/Kelowna/Penticton also happens to have a small but > dedicated force of gull-watchers that are waiting to intercept > anything with a dark back. > > > > Outside of the Okanagan-Thompson, the only other records I can > think of (from the interior) are from Salmon Arm and Creston > (both last year). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Russ Cannings > > Burnaby, BC > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rick Howie > > > Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:45 pm > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > > > Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of > > > Black-backed > > > Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate > > > some theories > > > about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to > be > > > a pattern > > > here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the > past > > > decade would > > > be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Howie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf > > > Of Chris Charlesworth > > > Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM > > > To: bc intbird > > > Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Birders, > > > > > > After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, > I was > > > surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED > > > GULL at Maude > > > Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been > three > > > LesserBlack-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force > > > and I found an > > > fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was > in > > > the early > > > stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert > Lk > > > a while ago > > > and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had > > > yesterday was > > > advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The > > > tail was white, > > > except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail > > > pattern would > > > be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd > year > > > to have > > > more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the > all > > > dark bill. > > > A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some > > > pink at the > > > base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials > > > and wing > > > coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on > > > yesterdays bird was > > > pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's > bird > > > was a > > > classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth > > > photo file. I > > > took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. > It's > > > a record > > > shot anyhow. > > > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > > Kelowna, BC > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To contact the moderator email > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > Also, consider joining these groups. > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > If you have pictures to share try this group. > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you > can see the pictures. > Subject: Re: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: Russell Cannings <russellcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:15:26 -0800 Certainly an intriguing mystery Rick, I would think that if these birds were dispersing randomly all the way from Greenland, they would be showing up more on the Pacific coast where there are a lot more birders and gulls. As far as I know, only 1 LBBG has been photographed in coastal British Columbia along with only a small handful of unconfirmed reports (this is off the top of my head). One similarity between the wintering "population" in BC, and the larger one (~30) in Colorado, is the presence of Herring Gulls (which are pretty scarce in coastal BC during the winter). The same can obviously be said (in regards to mingling w. Herrings) for the Atlantic seaboard, and indeed the breeding areas of Iceland etc. I also wonder if there could be a few unknown breeding sites that we don't know about that are further west--say on some islands in the middle of Manitoba somewhere?  Just throwin' it out there. Now if only Slaty-backed Gulls could start invading... any time please. Russ Cannings Burnaby, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: r.howie AT shaw.ca Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 1:56 pm Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull To: "bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com" > > > The Anything Larus website speculates that the increase in > numbers of LBBG on the east coast is possibly due to invasion > from the expanding Greenland population as we have explored > before on thid chat line. Postulating a trans-continental drift > pattern is interesting. Do HEGU do this? Whatever the mechanisms > and processes at work here, I think having a summary document > for BC would be a good resource. Outlets such as the BCFO > journal or Wildlife Afield would be good places to start. Rick > Howie, Kamloops. > > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Russell Cannings > > Sender: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:30:56 > > To: > > Reply-to: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > > > Hi Rick and others, > > > > I wonder if it has something to do with the birds that they are > mingling with either on the nesting grounds or post-breeding. I > would guess it they are flocking with Herring Gulls. Since the > Central Okanagan probably hosts the largest Herring Gull > wintering population in BC, and indeed the largest winter-gull > concentration in the interior, it makes sense that this is where > "LBBGs" would turn up. They seem to be turning up with > increasing frequency in the interior of North American, and > Vernon/Kelowna/Penticton also happens to have a small but > dedicated force of gull-watchers that are waiting to intercept > anything with a dark back. > > > > Outside of the Okanagan-Thompson, the only other records I can > think of (from the interior) are from Salmon Arm and Creston > (both last year). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Russ Cannings > > Burnaby, BC > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rick Howie > > Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:45 pm > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > > > Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of > > > Black-backed > > > Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate > > > some theories > > > about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to > be > > > a pattern > > > here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the > past > > > decade would > > > be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. > > > > > >   > > > > > > Rick Howie  > > > > > >   > > > > > >   > > > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > > Of Chris Charlesworth > > > Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM > > > To: bc intbird > > > Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > > > > >   > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > Birders, > > > > > > After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, > I was > > > surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED > > > GULL at Maude > > > Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been > three > > > LesserBlack-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force > > > and I found an > > > fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was > in > > > the early > > > stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert > Lk > > > a while ago > > > and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had > > > yesterday was > > > advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The > > > tail was white, > > > except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail > > > pattern would > > > be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd > year > > > to have > > > more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the > all > > > dark bill. > > > A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some > > > pink at the > > > base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials > > > and wing > > > coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on > > > yesterdays bird was > > > pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's > bird > > > was a > > > classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth > > > photo file. I > > > took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. > It's > > > a record > > > shot anyhow. > > > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > > Kelowna, BC > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To contact the moderator email > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > Also, consider joining these groups. > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com  an all BC group. > If you have pictures to share try this group.  > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you > can see the pictures. > Subject: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: r.howie AT shaw.ca Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 21:56:12 +0000 The Anything Larus website speculates that the increase in numbers of LBBG on the east coast is possibly due to invasion from the expanding Greenland population as we have explored before on thid chat line. Postulating a trans-continental drift pattern is interesting. Do HEGU do this? Whatever the mechanisms and processes at work here, I think having a summary document for BC would be a good resource. Outlets such as the BCFO journal or Wildlife Afield would be good places to start. Rick Howie, Kamloops. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: Russell Cannings Sender: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:30:56 To: Reply-to: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull Hi Rick and others, I wonder if it has something to do with the birds that they are mingling with either on the nesting grounds or post-breeding. I would guess it they are flocking with Herring Gulls. Since the Central Okanagan probably hosts the largest Herring Gull wintering population in BC, and indeed the largest winter-gull concentration in the interior, it makes sense that this is where "LBBGs" would turn up. They seem to be turning up with increasing frequency in the interior of North American, and Vernon/Kelowna/Penticton also happens to have a small but dedicated force of gull-watchers that are waiting to intercept anything with a dark back. Outside of the Okanagan-Thompson, the only other records I can think of (from the interior) are from Salmon Arm and Creston (both last year). Cheers, Russ Cannings Burnaby, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Howie Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:45 pm Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of > Black-backed > Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate > some theories > about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to be > a pattern > here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the past > decade would > be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. > >   > > Rick Howie  > >   > >   > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Chris Charlesworth > Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM > To: bc intbird > Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > >   > >   > > > Birders, > > After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, I was > surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED > GULL at Maude > Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been three > LesserBlack-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force > and I found an > fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was in > the early > stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert Lk > a while ago > and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had > yesterday was > advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The > tail was white, > except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail > pattern would > be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd year > to have > more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the all > dark bill. > A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some > pink at the > base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials > and wing > coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on > yesterdays bird was > pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's bird > was a > classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth > photo file. I > took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. It's > a record > shot anyhow. > > Chris Charlesworth > Kelowna, BC > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 09:35:33 -0800 Don't forget Nakusp, the site of BC's first Lesser Black-backed back in the early 90s. Chris Sent from my iPod On 2012-02-01, at 9:31 AM, "Russell Cannings" wrote: > Hi Rick and others, > > I wonder if it has something to do with the birds that they are mingling with either on the nesting grounds or post-breeding. I would guess it they are flocking with Herring Gulls. Since the Central Okanagan probably hosts the largest Herring Gull wintering population in BC, and indeed the largest winter-gull concentration in the interior, it makes sense that this is where "LBBGs" would turn up. They seem to be turning up with increasing frequency in the interior of North American, and Vernon/Kelowna/Penticton also happens to have a small but dedicated force of gull-watchers that are waiting to intercept anything with a dark back. > > Outside of the Okanagan-Thompson, the only other records I can think of (from the interior) are from Salmon Arm and Creston (both last year). > > Cheers, > > Russ Cannings > Burnaby, BC > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rick Howie > Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:45 pm > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of > > Black-backed > > Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate > > some theories > > about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to be > > a pattern > > here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the past > > decade would > > be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. > > > > > > > > Rick Howie > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > Of Chris Charlesworth > > Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM > > To: bc intbird > > Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Birders, > > > > After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, I was > > surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED > > GULL at Maude > > Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been three > > LesserBlack-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force > > and I found an > > fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was in > > the early > > stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert Lk > > a while ago > > and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had > > yesterday was > > advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The > > tail was white, > > except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail > > pattern would > > be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd year > > to have > > more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the all > > dark bill. > > A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some > > pink at the > > base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials > > and wing > > coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on > > yesterdays bird was > > pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's bird > > was a > > classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth > > photo file. I > > took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. It's > > a record > > shot anyhow. > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > Kelowna, BC > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: Russell Cannings <russellcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:30:56 -0800 Hi Rick and others, I wonder if it has something to do with the birds that they are mingling with either on the nesting grounds or post-breeding. I would guess it they are flocking with Herring Gulls. Since the Central Okanagan probably hosts the largest Herring Gull wintering population in BC, and indeed the largest winter-gull concentration in the interior, it makes sense that this is where "LBBGs" would turn up. They seem to be turning up with increasing frequency in the interior of North American, and Vernon/Kelowna/Penticton also happens to have a small but dedicated force of gull-watchers that are waiting to intercept anything with a dark back. Outside of the Okanagan-Thompson, the only other records I can think of (from the interior) are from Salmon Arm and Creston (both last year). Cheers, Russ Cannings Burnaby, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Howie Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:45 pm Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of > Black-backed > Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate > some theories > about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to be > a pattern > here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the past > decade would > be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. > >   > > Rick Howie  > >   > >   > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Chris Charlesworth > Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM > To: bc intbird > Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > >   > >   > > > Birders, > > After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, I was > surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED > GULL at Maude > Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been three > LesserBlack-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force > and I found an > fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was in > the early > stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert Lk > a while ago > and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had > yesterday was > advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The > tail was white, > except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail > pattern would > be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd year > to have > more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the all > dark bill. > A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some > pink at the > base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials > and wing > coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on > yesterdays bird was > pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's bird > was a > classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth > photo file. I > took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. It's > a record > shot anyhow. > > Chris Charlesworth > Kelowna, BC > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:45:15 -0800 Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of Black-backed Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate some theories about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to be a pattern here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the past decade would be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. Rick Howie From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Charlesworth Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM To: bc intbird Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull Birders, After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, I was surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULL at Maude Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been three Lesser Black-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force and I found an fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was in the early stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert Lk a while ago and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had yesterday was advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The tail was white, except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail pattern would be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd year to have more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the all dark bill. A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some pink at the base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials and wing coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on yesterdays bird was pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's bird was a classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth photo file. I took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. It's a record shot anyhow. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 16:38:04 -0800 Birders, After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, I was surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULL at Maude Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been three Lesser Black-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force and I found an fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was in the early stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert Lk a while ago and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had yesterday was advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The tail was white, except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail pattern would be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd year to have more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the all dark bill. A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some pink at the base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials and wing coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on yesterdays bird was pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's bird was a classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth photo file. I took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. It's a record shot anyhow. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Lesser Black-backed & Glaucous Gull in Vernon From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 18:18:39 -0800 Birders, Mike Force and I went out in the N. Okanagan today. Temperatures climbed up to near 10 degrees Celsius and the sun was warm! Bird of the day award went to an advanced second year LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULL seen at the mouth of Vernon Ck in Okanagan Landing. We picked the bird out as being a 'dark-backed gull' from over a kilometer away so we went to investigate. Almost immediately after arriving we spotted the bird swimming in the water. The mantle was dark and almost completely filled in with adult type feathers. The tertials were mottled however and there was some brown in the wing coverts. The tail was white, save for two black vertical streaks in it. The bill was all dark, with a tiny yellow / whitish tip. Eye was pale and head and breast were streaked with brown. Streaks gathered around eye to give distinct 'eye streak'. Primaries were black and very long. Also here was an adult GLAUCOUS GULL, as well as THAYER'S GULL and the other usual larid suspects. Out on the water were HORNED, RED-NECKD and PIED-BILLED GREBES, COMMON LOONS, COMMON MERGANSER, BUFFLEHEAD, AMERICAN COOT and flocks of CANADA GEESE. Up on the Commonage we sifted through several RED-TAILED HAWKS trying to find different raptors or owls if possible. Only owl we got was a GREAT HORNED OWL in a copse of aspens along Bailey Rd. An adult NORTHERN SHRIKE was a nice find on Charolais Rd where I also heard a distant TOWNSEND'S SOLITAIRE. We briefly visited some Douglas Fir / Ponderosa pine forest along Howards Rd and had STELLER'S JAY, MOUNTAIN and BLACK-CAPPED CHICKADEE and RED-BREASTED NUTHATCH. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Redpolls again From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:51:42 -0800 Sorry. This message was meant for the pics group. Rick Howie From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Howie Sent: January-29-12 11:43 PM To: BCINTBIRD Subject: [bcintbird] Redpolls again Attached is a photo of a bird with little in the way of breast colour. Rick Howie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Redpolls again From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:43:25 -0800 Attached is a photo of a bird with little in the way of breast colour. Rick Howie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Hoary Redpoll ? From: "douglasbrown01" <douglasbrown01 AT yahoo.ca> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 05:36:49 -0000 Hi Laure; I'm assuming that BNA account is for Hoary Redpoll, but we're already assuming the bird is a Common Redpoll. Male Common Redpolls will have a variable amount of pink on the breast from very little to quite a bit. Only birds with a lot of pink on the breast can be assumed to be adult male Common Redpolls. Adult female and immature male Common Redpolls usually show some pink in the breast and there is overlap with pale adult males. In Common Redpoll the only birds with no pink on the breast is immature females. Your bird shows very little pink in the breast so assuming the bird is a Common Redpoll, I don't believe the bird shows enough to eliminate adult female. This comes from Pyle and his info would be from specimens and banding records that have been sexed. It should be the most accurate info as the only way to positively sex these birds would be to capture them for DNA. Doug Brown Osoyoos --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Laure Neish wrote: > > Hi Doug, > > This is from BNA : > > *Male shows little if any pink on cheeks, breast, or rump; female almost > invariably shows none. In male, what pink there is becomes more conspicuous > as breeding season approaches. Overall, males paler than females.* > ** > Of the very few Hoaries I've seen across Canada, and from my two photos on > the gallery (feeding on catkins) this has been my experience too.which is > why I said that if it was a mle it would have had a hint of pink but not so > much streaking in combination. The bird is probably a plae Common Redpoll. > > Perhaps I didn't understand your point, but are you saying if it was a male > Hoary it should have red on the breast? > > Laure > > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:56 AM, douglasbrown01 wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Laure; > > > > I would not assume the bird is a male based on the pink breast wash. Only > > birds with a large amount of pink can be assumed to be adult males as adult > > females and immature males will show as much pink as in your photo. The > > amount of streaking is very variable which is part of why they are so > > difficult to sex. Only immature females are supposed to show no pink on the > > breast. > > > > Doug Brown > > Osoyoos > > > > --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Laure Neish wrote: > > > > > > Hi, Thanks for your input Chris. I have to agree and yesterday I looked > > up > > > Hoary Redpoll on BNA (Birds of North America online) and found the link > > to > > > David Sibley's blog in which he discusses the continuum between Common > > and > > > Hoary and how most of the birds that are IDed in confidence are male > > Hoary > > > Redpolls which have the "snowflake" look of the palest phenotype. He > > raises > > > another interesting question about redpolls life in long nights of arctic > > > darkness. > > > > > > http://sibleyguides.blogspot.com/2008/01/my-holiday-redpoll-photos.html > > > > > > *"Redpoll identification is challenging because Hoary and Common Redpoll > > > seem to show an unbroken continuum of variation from pale to dark, and > > > there are no fully reliable differences. So birders have to rely on a > > > subjective assessment of overall colour and struggle to define the > > > threshold for confident identification. Virtually all birders see > > redpolls > > > only in the winter, where identification is reduced to an utterly > > one-sided > > > question: "Where can we draw the line so that we are sure the accepted > > > records of Hoary Redpolls are correct?" * > > > > > > I looked through my photos again and realized that the bird in this side > > > view is the same bird in the previously presented front view. > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h12101c70#h12101c70 > > > Still hard to see the complete undertail coverts or rump. > > > > > > In the case of this redpoll, if it is a male (which I assume it is > > because > > > of the pink wash) I would expect it to be even paler than it is to be a > > > pure Hoary. The females seem to have a bit more streaking though. > > > > > > Anyway, I'll keep looking! > > > > > > Laure > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Chris Charlesworth < > > > c_charlesworth23 AT > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > > > > > Nice that you've got redpolls in your yard! There aren't too many > > around > > > > this winter and they've all been way up in high elevation forests for > > the > > > > most part. Your bird might just be a Hoary, but might is the key word > > here. > > > > I'm not sure I would ID that bird from the photos. I would need to see > > the > > > > rump as you mentioned, and the undertail coverts. The ground color is > > nice > > > > and white and the bill might be a little bit pushed in perhaps. I am a > > bit > > > > hesitant to call it a Hoary based on the fairly dark flank streaks > > though. > > > > Most of the Hoary's I've ID'd had very little to almost no flank > > streaking. > > > > > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > > > > > > > > > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > > From: natureneish AT > > > > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 > > > > Subject: [bcintbird] Hoary Redpoll ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of several shots on the gallery > > > > > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult > > to > > > > > > > > tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially > > > > > > > > since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I > > was > > > > > > > > standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on > > tripod) > > > > > > > > Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at > > the > > > > > > > > feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick > > count of > > > > > > > > 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these > > birds > > > > > > > > and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and > > females, > > > > > > > > between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks > > and > > > > > > > > some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and > > binoculars > > > > > > > > out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The > > > > > > > > hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems > > sort > > > > > > > > of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks > > > > > > > > might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the > > > > > > > > "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and > > > > > > > > descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. > > This > > > > > > > > bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > > > > > > Laure Wilson Neish > > > > > > > > Penticton, BC Canada > > > > > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > To contact the moderator email > > > > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > > > > Also, consider joining these groups. > > > > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > > > > If you have pictures to share try this group. > > > > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > > > > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see > > the > > > > pictures. > > > > Subject: Re: Re: Hoary Redpoll ? From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 12:55:53 -0800 Hi Doug, This is from BNA : *Male shows little if any pink on cheeks, breast, or rump; female almost invariably shows none. In male, what pink there is becomes more conspicuous as breeding season approaches. Overall, males paler than females.* ** Of the very few Hoaries I've seen across Canada, and from my two photos on the gallery (feeding on catkins) this has been my experience too.which is why I said that if it was a mle it would have had a hint of pink but not so much streaking in combination. The bird is probably a plae Common Redpoll. Perhaps I didn't understand your point, but are you saying if it was a male Hoary it should have red on the breast? Laure On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:56 AM, douglasbrown01 wrote: > ** > > > Hi Laure; > > I would not assume the bird is a male based on the pink breast wash. Only > birds with a large amount of pink can be assumed to be adult males as adult > females and immature males will show as much pink as in your photo. The > amount of streaking is very variable which is part of why they are so > difficult to sex. Only immature females are supposed to show no pink on the > breast. > > Doug Brown > Osoyoos > > --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Laure Neish wrote: > > > > Hi, Thanks for your input Chris. I have to agree and yesterday I looked > up > > Hoary Redpoll on BNA (Birds of North America online) and found the link > to > > David Sibley's blog in which he discusses the continuum between Common > and > > Hoary and how most of the birds that are IDed in confidence are male > Hoary > > Redpolls which have the "snowflake" look of the palest phenotype. He > raises > > another interesting question about redpolls life in long nights of arctic > > darkness. > > > > http://sibleyguides.blogspot.com/2008/01/my-holiday-redpoll-photos.html > > > > *"Redpoll identification is challenging because Hoary and Common Redpoll > > seem to show an unbroken continuum of variation from pale to dark, and > > there are no fully reliable differences. So birders have to rely on a > > subjective assessment of overall colour and struggle to define the > > threshold for confident identification. Virtually all birders see > redpolls > > only in the winter, where identification is reduced to an utterly > one-sided > > question: "Where can we draw the line so that we are sure the accepted > > records of Hoary Redpolls are correct?" * > > > > I looked through my photos again and realized that the bird in this side > > view is the same bird in the previously presented front view. > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h12101c70#h12101c70 > > Still hard to see the complete undertail coverts or rump. > > > > In the case of this redpoll, if it is a male (which I assume it is > because > > of the pink wash) I would expect it to be even paler than it is to be a > > pure Hoary. The females seem to have a bit more streaking though. > > > > Anyway, I'll keep looking! > > > > Laure > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Chris Charlesworth < > > c_charlesworth23 AT ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > > > Nice that you've got redpolls in your yard! There aren't too many > around > > > this winter and they've all been way up in high elevation forests for > the > > > most part. Your bird might just be a Hoary, but might is the key word > here. > > > I'm not sure I would ID that bird from the photos. I would need to see > the > > > rump as you mentioned, and the undertail coverts. The ground color is > nice > > > and white and the bill might be a little bit pushed in perhaps. I am a > bit > > > hesitant to call it a Hoary based on the fairly dark flank streaks > though. > > > Most of the Hoary's I've ID'd had very little to almost no flank > streaking. > > > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > > > > > > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > From: natureneish AT ... > > > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 > > > Subject: [bcintbird] Hoary Redpoll ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of several shots on the gallery > > > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 > > > > > > > > > > > > I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult > to > > > > > > tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially > > > > > > since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I > was > > > > > > standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on > tripod) > > > > > > Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at > the > > > > > > feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick > count of > > > > > > 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these > birds > > > > > > and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and > females, > > > > > > between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks > and > > > > > > some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and > binoculars > > > > > > out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The > > > > > > hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems > sort > > > > > > of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks > > > > > > might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the > > > > > > "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and > > > > > > descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. > This > > > > > > bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > > > > Laure Wilson Neish > > > > > > Penticton, BC Canada > > > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > To contact the moderator email > > > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > > > Also, consider joining these groups. > > > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > > > If you have pictures to share try this group. > > > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > > > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see > the > > > pictures. > > > Subject: Re: Hoary Redpoll ? From: "douglasbrown01" <douglasbrown01 AT yahoo.ca> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 19:56:55 -0000 Hi Laure; I would not assume the bird is a male based on the pink breast wash. Only birds with a large amount of pink can be assumed to be adult males as adult females and immature males will show as much pink as in your photo. The amount of streaking is very variable which is part of why they are so difficult to sex. Only immature females are supposed to show no pink on the breast. Doug Brown Osoyoos --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Laure Neish wrote: > > Hi, Thanks for your input Chris. I have to agree and yesterday I looked up > Hoary Redpoll on BNA (Birds of North America online) and found the link to > David Sibley's blog in which he discusses the continuum between Common and > Hoary and how most of the birds that are IDed in confidence are male Hoary > Redpolls which have the "snowflake" look of the palest phenotype. He raises > another interesting question about redpolls life in long nights of arctic > darkness. > > http://sibleyguides.blogspot.com/2008/01/my-holiday-redpoll-photos.html > > *"Redpoll identification is challenging because Hoary and Common Redpoll > seem to show an unbroken continuum of variation from pale to dark, and > there are no fully reliable differences. So birders have to rely on a > subjective assessment of overall colour and struggle to define the > threshold for confident identification. Virtually all birders see redpolls > only in the winter, where identification is reduced to an utterly one-sided > question: "Where can we draw the line so that we are sure the accepted > records of Hoary Redpolls are correct?" * > > I looked through my photos again and realized that the bird in this side > view is the same bird in the previously presented front view. > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h12101c70#h12101c70 > Still hard to see the complete undertail coverts or rump. > > In the case of this redpoll, if it is a male (which I assume it is because > of the pink wash) I would expect it to be even paler than it is to be a > pure Hoary. The females seem to have a bit more streaking though. > > Anyway, I'll keep looking! > > Laure > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Chris Charlesworth < > c_charlesworth23 AT ...> wrote: > > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > Nice that you've got redpolls in your yard! There aren't too many around > > this winter and they've all been way up in high elevation forests for the > > most part. Your bird might just be a Hoary, but might is the key word here. > > I'm not sure I would ID that bird from the photos. I would need to see the > > rump as you mentioned, and the undertail coverts. The ground color is nice > > and white and the bill might be a little bit pushed in perhaps. I am a bit > > hesitant to call it a Hoary based on the fairly dark flank streaks though. > > Most of the Hoary's I've ID'd had very little to almost no flank streaking. > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > > > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > From: natureneish AT ... > > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 > > Subject: [bcintbird] Hoary Redpoll ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of several shots on the gallery > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 > > > > > > > > I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult to > > > > tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially > > > > since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I was > > > > standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on tripod) > > > > Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at the > > > > feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick count of > > > > 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these birds > > > > and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and females, > > > > between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks and > > > > some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and binoculars > > > > out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The > > > > hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems sort > > > > of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks > > > > might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the > > > > "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and > > > > descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. This > > > > bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > > Laure Wilson Neish > > > > Penticton, BC Canada > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To contact the moderator email > > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > > Also, consider joining these groups. > > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > > If you have pictures to share try this group. > > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the > > pictures. > > Subject: VARC - 2011 Year end Report From: "Derek Matthews" <Derek AT birdvancouver.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 19:02:11 -0000 Hi Birders and Banders, All the rain and snow this month has meant little or no banding at Colony Farm but it has given us the opportunity to work on the VARC year end report for 2011 which we've just finished and put up for anyone interested. http://birdvancouver.com/pdf/varc_2011yearendreport.pdf It's a fairly large file so please give it a moment or two to load! Cheers. Derek Derek Matthews VARC www.birdvancouver.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Hoary Redpoll ? From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 06:53:00 -0800 Hi, Thanks for your input Chris. I have to agree and yesterday I looked up Hoary Redpoll on BNA (Birds of North America online) and found the link to David Sibley's blog in which he discusses the continuum between Common and Hoary and how most of the birds that are IDed in confidence are male Hoary Redpolls which have the "snowflake" look of the palest phenotype. He raises another interesting question about redpolls life in long nights of arctic darkness. http://sibleyguides.blogspot.com/2008/01/my-holiday-redpoll-photos.html *“Redpoll identification is challenging because Hoary and Common Redpoll seem to show an unbroken continuum of variation from pale to dark, and there are no fully reliable differences. So birders have to rely on a subjective assessment of overall colour and struggle to define the threshold for confident identification. Virtually all birders see redpolls only in the winter, where identification is reduced to an utterly one-sided question: “Where can we draw the line so that we are sure the accepted records of Hoary Redpolls are correct?” * I looked through my photos again and realized that the bird in this side view is the same bird in the previously presented front view. http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h12101c70#h12101c70 Still hard to see the complete undertail coverts or rump. In the case of this redpoll, if it is a male (which I assume it is because of the pink wash) I would expect it to be even paler than it is to be a pure Hoary. The females seem to have a bit more streaking though. Anyway, I'll keep looking! Laure On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Chris Charlesworth < c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Laure, > > Nice that you've got redpolls in your yard! There aren't too many around > this winter and they've all been way up in high elevation forests for the > most part. Your bird might just be a Hoary, but might is the key word here. > I'm not sure I would ID that bird from the photos. I would need to see the > rump as you mentioned, and the undertail coverts. The ground color is nice > and white and the bill might be a little bit pushed in perhaps. I am a bit > hesitant to call it a Hoary based on the fairly dark flank streaks though. > Most of the Hoary's I've ID'd had very little to almost no flank streaking. > > Chris Charlesworth > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > From: natureneish AT gmail.com > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 > Subject: [bcintbird] Hoary Redpoll ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of several shots on the gallery > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 > > > > I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult to > > tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially > > since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I was > > standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on tripod) > > Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at the > > feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick count of > > 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these birds > > and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and females, > > between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks and > > some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and binoculars > > out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The > > hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems sort > > of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks > > might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the > > "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and > > descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. This > > bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. > > > > -- > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Laure Wilson Neish > > Penticton, BC Canada > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To contact the moderator email > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > Also, consider joining these groups. > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > If you have pictures to share try this group. > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the > pictures. > Subject: RE: Hoary Redpoll ? From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:26:55 -0800 Hi Laure, Nice that you've got redpolls in your yard! There aren't too many around this winter and they've all been way up in high elevation forests for the most part. Your bird might just be a Hoary, but might is the key word here. I'm not sure I would ID that bird from the photos. I would need to see the rump as you mentioned, and the undertail coverts. The ground color is nice and white and the bill might be a little bit pushed in perhaps. I am a bit hesitant to call it a Hoary based on the fairly dark flank streaks though. Most of the Hoary's I've ID'd had very little to almost no flank streaking. Chris Charlesworth To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com From: natureneish AT gmail.com Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 Subject: [bcintbird] Hoary Redpoll ? First of several shots on the gallery http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult to tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I was standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on tripod) Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at the feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick count of 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these birds and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and females, between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks and some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and binoculars out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems sort of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. This bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Hoary Redpoll ? From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 First of several shots on the gallery http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult to tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I was standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on tripod) Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at the feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick count of 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these birds and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and females, between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks and some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and binoculars out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems sort of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. This bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: spotted towhee From: "Katharine Shewchuk" <ka_shewchuk AT telus.net> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:37:40 -0800 Hello Janna and all, It is interesting to note that we have had two, sometimes three SPTO on the ground and in the bushes near our feeder, too. They have been evident during the winter for the past five years and I am sure they now breed here in the same area. Sounds like another case of dispersion from the west to me, but I'm not an authority. Katharine, Merritt _____ From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janna Leslie Sent: January 28, 2012 8:59 AM To: bcintbird Subject: [bcintbird] spotted towhee Hi all. Yesterday I was surprised to see a spotted towhee under the feeder -- briefly. It came back for a visit this morning. It's certainly a nice sight to see! Cheers, Janna Leslie, Naramata [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Still on the search for Snowy From: "amanda.lahaie" <amlahaie AT gmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:07:30 -0000 Thanks for the helpful information. Unfortunately due to road closures yesterday and white out conditions today our trip has been postponed until a more favourable time. I'll let you know when I find them! Amanda Princeton --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, "Katharine Shewchuk" wrote: > > We certainly had good views January 9th. There are two individuals-one at > K15-16 and the other about K21 on the corral posts at first, then on a fence > post opposite. The gate to Minnie Lake is at K20. The mileages are from > the jct. of Hwy 5A and Pennask Lake road. Good luck! > > Katharine (Merritt) > > > > _____ > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of amanda.lahaie > Sent: January 26, 2012 12:30 PM > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [bcintbird] Still on the search for Snowy > > > > > > Hey everyone, > > I was wondering if anyone has seen the two Snowy Owls on the Pennask Lake > Road near Merritt recently. I hope to make a trip up there with my family > tomorrow, so I'm hoping they are still around. > > I also had a stunning dark-morph Red-tailed Hawk perched in a tree in the > park across the road yesterday. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/photo-frenzy/6763319427/in/photostream/lightbox > / He seemed to be giving me the evil eye! > > Amanda > Princeton > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: spotted towhee From: Janna Leslie <jannamles AT yahoo.ca> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:59:15 -0800 (PST) Hi all. Yesterday I was surprised to see a spotted towhee under the feeder -- briefly.  It came back for a visit this morning.  It's certainly a nice sight to see! Cheers, Janna Leslie, Naramata [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: thrasher dip From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:51:28 -0800 The trip is sounding more adventurous all the time Chris. The lone camper was actually the infamous Pinyon Pine Slasher. He normally does tires but he is notoriously unpredictable and hates bird listers. He will occasionally slip out of the mountains where he becomes known as the Thrasher Slasher, thus explaining periodic low numbers of this target species. I recommend maintaining a listless profile while in the general area and if he asks what you have seen, explain your amnesia problem and bolt - asap. Don't even whisper LeConte's or condor and hide the ABA guide with those species underlined - it could set him right off. Happy birding. Rick Howie Listless in Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Siddle Sent: January-27-12 4:48 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] thrasher dip Hi birders, After getting a new water pump in Modesto, we thanked the crew at Central Valley VW for treating us so well, and as we drove away, I saw a Yellow-billed Magpie fly across the road into an orchard. Most of the rest of the day I had to content myself with making up distance and birding from the van at 100 kph. North of Taft I glimpsed a Greater Roadrunner and at Exit 278 Great-tailed Grackles were flying around town with Brewer's Blackbirds. We drove Hwy 33 through Taft to Maricopa to scout the Le Conte's Thrasher area for tomorrow. Now the problem of where to spend the night presented itself. Sonja read of a campground called Valle Vista and so following her directions I drove west (Sonja says east; she's probably right) from Maricopa into the hills, higher, and higher, and higher. Finally it dawned on me where we were- Los Padres National Forest past Bitter Creek NWR. These are California Condor spots. At Mile 9 is the gamous Los Padres sign which my ABA guide to Southern California told me was THE spot for seeing wild condors back before April 1987, when the last coodors were taken into protective custody for breeding. The campground turned out to be almost without services. We eased the van down the steep entrance road to the campground among the Single-leaf Pinyon Pines, and I picked up Western Bluebirds and an Oak Titmouse for the year. Not that I'm keeping a year's list, I keep telling myself. A coyote howling at dusk, my first coyote of the year IF I was keeping a year's list of mammals. The only other occupant of the campground was a tall middle-aged man who kept to himself. He just sat at his picnic table, rocking himself back and forth, back and forth, sharpening a big Bowie knife with a round stone, talking to himself in a child's high pitched voice and giggling now and then. OK, he didn't do any of those things but I kept my eyes on him until it soon grew too dark to keep track of his whereabouts. With no power and our only source of light the headlamps we wore, which makes conversation a challenge since we were always shining our lights into each others' eyes, we went to bed early. Now I discovered just how uneven the ground was beneath the van. It was like sleeping on a shelf that leaned in toward the wall but also up at the head end and down at the foot. It was a long night. When we left the campground the fog was so thick that I could see only about 5 m ahead of us. Fortunately the mountain road had a nice bright yellow centre line. We crept down, down, down and my hopes that we might glimpse a Barn Owl or a Great Horned were dashed by the mist. We reached the Maricopa Petroleum Club Road at dawn, sort of, if you can call the murk that barely illuminated the desert landscape dawn, and followed ABA directions to Kerto and Cadet crossroads where for the next two hours we stalked the idea of a Le Conte's Thrasher. Of the actual birds there was not a trace. I think they may shelter in rodent holes in damp weather. And so for the second time in as many years, I came up empty at Maricopa. The only birds we saw were a few dozen White-crowned Sparrows (even they were extremely skittish) and a couple of Sage Sparrows. Oh, well.... Chris Siddle currently in Santa Paula, CA. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: South Okanagan birding From: "A & J Ginns" <ginnsj AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:17:41 -0800 Before Janna Leslie and I met Laure, we had stopped at the Red Roost on Sheep Creek rd, Twin Lakes area to see what their feeders were attracting. Two Evening Grosbeaks were the prize! Also about were 10 Steller's Jay, a few Mountain and Black-capped Chickadees, a Hairy Woodpecker and some House finches and a Junco or two! Driving across the White Lake basin (Kaleden/Okanagan Falls) there was an adult Bald Eagle overhead, a Northern Harrier low over the fields at White Lake ranch, and a Northern Shrike, a Kestrel and a Rough-legged Hawk were on the power lines or poles. Then we met Laure and watched the Eagles and Prairie Falcon. Leaving Laure we stopped at a usually good spot in Willowbrook but only roused a Red-breasted Nuthatch. At Mahoney Lake the Pileated had moved on but at Green Lake a Red-tailed Hawk was in a Doug-fir. Dropping down to the valley bottom the Ok Falls highlights were several Dippers, a pair of Barrow's Goldeneyes (down from about 20 a week before), 3 Trumpeter Swan in the channel, and one cold-looking Robin at the campground. Laure's spotting Chukar at Vaseux Bluffs spurred us to head there. Going up the road we saw only a couple of Magpies. But at the field where cattle are being overwintered there was ONE Starling on the back of a cow; keeping its feet warm or imitating a Cowbird? Turning the car around we stopped to look at 4 swans (presumably Trumpeters) on the ice of Vaseux Lake and two more joined them. Then a Canyon Wren called from the bluffs. Further down the roadl at the top of a cut bank enjoying the mid-afternoon sun were 12 Gray Partridge. Skiddish, they flushed as soon as we stopped. Resuming downhill there was a distant flock of birds that flew into a nearly vertical gully in the bluff. First glimpse suggested just Rock Pigeons but they were too low and their flight wasn't like Pigeons. When we got a better view of the gully and a good bit closer it still took some time until Janna spotted birds moving; 15 Chukar and they were less that 100 m from where Laure had seen some that morning. Jim Ginns ----- Original Message ----- From: Laure Neish To: BC interior birds list Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 3:09 PM Subject: [bcintbird] South Okanagan birding It was a fine day to be out birding in the sunshine today. I found three new birds for my winter list starting with a group of 5 Chukar at Vaseux Lake bluffs near the old sheep feeding station area. Over to Mahoney Lake and there was a long-lost (at least for me) Pileated Woodpecker next to the road near Sleeping Waters and Mahoney. As I headed around the circle route to White Lake, I drove past Jim Ginns and Janna Leslie coming the other way, so we stopped and compared notes about our morning sightings. Jim and Janna mentioned an interesting hawk they had just seen at White Lake behind the Ranch, which hoved over the grasslands back and forth but they weren't quite sure what it was except it had dark armpits (sorry guys - those might be my words). "Hmm" I said "that sounds like a Prairie Falcon". Just then Jim or Janna spotted a hawk coming over the hills and as we all trained our binocs on it, it turned out to be a Golden Eagle swooping and acting more like a hawk than a large eagle. Along came another Golden Eagle and right behind that...was a Prairie Falcon! What a fortuitous meeting on that stretch of road! We all had lovely views of the dark under wing axillaries on the falcon and the Golden Eagles circled almost directly overhead a few times. If we hadn't bumped into each other and gotten out of the cars to chat, we probably would have missed out on some nice sightings. There was a fresh deer carcass just down the road so perhaps some of the raptors were heading that way. Some photos: http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p461915537/h5a76108#h5a76108 Prairie Falcon http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p156254276/h301cd8d0#h301cd8d0 Golden Eagle http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p65873492/h27ad5836#h27ad5836 Chukar -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4767 - Release Date: 01/26/12 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: thrasher dip From: Chris Siddle <chris.siddle AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:48:19 -0800 Hi birders, After getting a new water pump in Modesto, we thanked the crew at Central Valley VW for treating us so well, and as we drove away, I saw a Yellow-billed Magpie fly across the road into an orchard. Most of the rest of the day I had to content myself with making up distance and birding from the van at 100 kph. North of Taft I glimpsed a Greater Roadrunner and at Exit 278 Great-tailed Grackles were flying around town with Brewer's Blackbirds. We drove Hwy 33 through Taft to Maricopa to scout the Le Conte's Thrasher area for tomorrow. Now the problem of where to spend the night presented itself. Sonja read of a campground called Valle Vista and so following her directions I drove west (Sonja says east; she's probably right) from Maricopa into the hills, higher, and higher, and higher. Finally it dawned on me where we were- Los Padres National Forest past Bitter Creek NWR. These are California Condor spots. At Mile 9 is the famous Los Padres sign which my ABA guide to Southern California told me was THE spot for seeing wild condors back before April 1987, when the last condors were taken into protective custody for breeding. The campground turned out to be almost without services. We eased the van down the steep entrance road to the campground among the Single-leaf Pinyon Pines, and I picked up Western Bluebirds and an Oak Titmouse for the year. Not that I'm keeping a year's list, I keep telling myself. A coyote howling at dusk, my first coyote of the year IF I was keeping a year's list of mammals. The only other occupant of the campground was a tall middle-aged man who kept to himself. He just sat at his picnic table, rocking himself back and forth, back and forth, sharpening a big Bowie knife with a round stone, talking to himself in a child's high pitched voice and giggling now and then. OK, he didn't do any of those things but I kept my eyes on him until it soon grew too dark to keep track of his whereabouts. With no power and our only source of light the headlamps we wore, which makes conversation a challenge since we were always shining our lights into each others' eyes, we went to bed early. Now I discovered just how uneven the ground was beneath the van. It was like sleeping on a shelf that leaned in toward the wall but also up at the head end and down at the foot. It was a long night. When we left the campground the fog was so thick that I could see only about 5 m ahead of us. Fortunately the mountain road had a nice bright yellow centre line. We crept down, down, down and my hopes that we might glimpse a Barn Owl or a Great Horned were dashed by the mist. We reached the Maricopa Petroleum Club Road at dawn, sort of, if you can call the murk that barely illuminated the desert landscape dawn, and followed ABA directions to Kerto and Cadet crossroads where for the next two hours we stalked the idea of a Le Conte's Thrasher. Of the actual birds there was not a trace. I think they may shelter in rodent holes in damp weather. And so for the second time in as many years, I came up empty at Maricopa. The only birds we saw were a few dozen White-crowned Sparrows (even they were extremely skittish) and a couple of Sage Sparrows. Oh, well.... Chris Siddle currently in Santa Paula, CA. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Sacramento Nat'l Wildlife Refuge From: "Wayne Weber" <contopus AT telus.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 06:36:13 -0800 Chris and Interior Birders, Yes, the Sacramento NWR is indeed a wonderful birding location-- 12 months a year. I discovered it more than 40 years ago, in 1970, and have revisited it as often as possible since then (including a brief visit 5 days ago, on January 22nd). Of all the NWRs in the Great Valley of California, it is the most convenient to visit, as it is located right next to Interstate 5, and there are good places to stay nearby in the small towns of Willows and Williams. However-- it's too bad you didn't also visit the nearby Colusa NWR, which is administered as part of the Sacramento NWR. If so, you would have seen the male FALCATED DUCK which has been regaling visitors to that refuge ever since it showed up on December 8th! I had great looks at the Falcated Duck during my visit on January 22nd. In fact, the reason that my visit to the Sacramento NWR was so brief was because I spent 5 hours that day birding the Colusa NWR, which also has a 3-mile auto tour route. Despite the fact that it rained almost the whole day, I managed to find 56 species at the Colusa NWR, including such goodies as COMMON GALLINULE, WHITE-FACED IBIS, BLACK-NECKED STILT, LONG-BILLED CURLEW, TRICOLORED BLACKBIRD, and CALIFORNIA TOWHEE. You can see a copy of my list at http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S9687630 . Last year, during a 2-week visit to California in late March, I tallied 49 species at the Sacramento NWR and 60 at the Colusa NWR. I also made visits to the Los Banos State WMA near the town of the same name, and the Kern NWR NW of Bakersfield. There are another dozen or so federal and state refuges in the Great Valley that I didn't have time to visit. The abundance and diversity of wildlife at these refuges, especially in the winter, is astounding. I hope you and Sonja have a great trip, and we would be delighted to hear about what you see at other stops on your voyage! Wayne C. Weber Delta, BC contopus AT telus.net From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Siddle Sent: January-25-12 7:28 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Sacramento Nat'l Wildlife Refuge Hi birders, Yesterday, only 45 minutes before it closed, Sonja and I discovered a magical place called Sacramento NWR. The air over the marshes was full of Snow Geese, Greater White-fronts, and Ross's Geese. Bushtits, White-crowned Sparrows, and Yellow-rumped Warblers moved through the bushes while a Black Phoebe caught midges from an overhead wire. This was a place worth re-visiting so we asked at the visitors' center where the nearest R.V. park was We were told that we could park at Wal-Mart, a few kms to the north at Willows. Either that or drive 40 miles back the way we had come. Wal-Mart it was, a first for us. We were back at the refuge at daybreak. A six mile auto tour crossed part of the marsh. Black-tailed Jackrabbits hopped through the high beams as we crept along the road. The most numerous waterfowl were Mallards, Northern Shovellers, Northern Pintails, with lesser numbers of American Wigeon, Green-winged Teal, Cinnamon Teal, Ruddy Ducks, Ring-necked Ducks, and Buffleheads. Other marsh birds included American Coots, Common Moorhens (Common Gallinules, as the new AOU name appears to be), American White Pelicans, Double-crested Cormorants, Great Blue Herons, Great Egrets, Snowy Egrets, and, best of all, an American Bittern Sonja pointed out to me. Killdeer and Black-necked Stilts were present in small numbers, as well as a few Pied-billed Grebes and an Eared Grebe. Raptors included many Red-tailed Hawks and Northern Harriers, four adult Red-shouldered Hawks, a Merlin, and an accipiter sp. Land birds included Bewick's Wrens, Marsh Wrens, Black Phoebes, a Tree Swallow, Ruby-crowned Kinglets, Yellow-rumped Warblers, an Orange-crowned Warbler, Golden-crowned Sparrows, White-crowned Sparrows, Song Sparrows, a Savannah Sparrow, and a Fox Sparrow. In the deciduous trees around the visitors center I found a male Nuttall's Woodpecker, a species I hadn't seen since 1991. Our short visit (we left at 10 AM) was an excellent introduction to the national wildlife refuges of the Sacramento Valley. Chris Siddle currently Modesto, Cal. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Chichester From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:54:12 -0800 Birders, I poked around Chichester Bird Sanct. in Kelowna this afternoon. Had a nice roosting GREAT HORNED OWL in the willows at the N. end of the park. Also in the same tree was a BROWN CREEPER. I watched a VIRGINIA RAIL creep through the mud right in front of me. Beautiful bird when seen well. Two female type GREEN-WINGED TEAL quietly moved through the reeds, while a couple of STELLER'S JAYS made a lot of noise in nearby trees. The E. pond is ice free and had about a hundred MALLARDS, along with 3 BUFFLEHEAD and 2 COMMON GOLDENEYE. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Still on the search for Snowy From: Jim Mitchell <butcher99 AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:48:54 -0800 some great photos there. Love the panaramas On 26/01/2012 12:30 PM, amanda.lahaie wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I was wondering if anyone has seen the two Snowy Owls on the Pennask > Lake Road near Merritt recently. I hope to make a trip up there with > my family tomorrow, so I'm hoping they are still around. > > I also had a stunning dark-morph Red-tailed Hawk perched in a tree in > the park across the road yesterday. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/photo-frenzy/6763319427/in/photostream/lightbox/ > He seemed to be giving me the evil eye! > > Amanda > Princeton > > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Still on the search for Snowy From: "Katharine Shewchuk" <ka_shewchuk AT telus.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:21:51 -0800 We certainly had good views January 9th. There are two individuals-one at K15-16 and the other about K21 on the corral posts at first, then on a fence post opposite. The gate to Minnie Lake is at K20. The mileages are from the jct. of Hwy 5A and Pennask Lake road. Good luck! Katharine (Merritt) _____ From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amanda.lahaie Sent: January 26, 2012 12:30 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Still on the search for Snowy Hey everyone, I was wondering if anyone has seen the two Snowy Owls on the Pennask Lake Road near Merritt recently. I hope to make a trip up there with my family tomorrow, so I'm hoping they are still around. I also had a stunning dark-morph Red-tailed Hawk perched in a tree in the park across the road yesterday. http://www.flickr.com/photos/photo-frenzy/6763319427/in/photostream/lightbox / He seemed to be giving me the evil eye! Amanda Princeton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: South Okanagan birding From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:09:00 -0800 It was a fine day to be out birding in the sunshine today. I found three new birds for my winter list starting with a group of 5 Chukar at Vaseux Lake bluffs near the old sheep feeding station area. Over to Mahoney Lake and there was a long-lost (at least for me) Pileated Woodpecker next to the road near Sleeping Waters and Mahoney. As I headed around the circle route to White Lake, I drove past Jim Ginns and Janna Leslie coming the other way, so we stopped and compared notes about our morning sightings. Jim and Janna mentioned an interesting hawk they had just seen at White Lake behind the Ranch, which hoved over the grasslands back and forth but they weren't quite sure what it was except it had dark armpits (sorry guys - those might be my words). "Hmm" I said "that sounds like a Prairie Falcon". Just then Jim or Janna spotted a hawk coming over the hills and as we all trained our binocs on it, it turned out to be a Golden Eagle swooping and acting more like a hawk than a large eagle. Along came another Golden Eagle and right behind that...was a Prairie Falcon! What a fortuitous meeting on that stretch of road! We all had lovely views of the dark under wing axillaries on the falcon and the Golden Eagles circled almost directly overhead a few times. If we hadn't bumped into each other and gotten out of the cars to chat, we probably would have missed out on some nice sightings. There was a fresh deer carcass just down the road so perhaps some of the raptors were heading that way. Some photos: http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p461915537/h5a76108#h5a76108 Prairie Falcon http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p156254276/h301cd8d0#h301cd8d0 Golden Eagle http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p65873492/h27ad5836#h27ad5836 Chukar -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Eurasian Collared doves From: "Bob and Maggie" <bobnmaggie AT shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:07:44 -0800 Maybe that's the secret to being so successful as an invasive species! Anytime, anyplace, any temperature! Bob Handfield Kaleden From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tammy Proctor Sent: January 26, 2012 10:42 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Eurasian Collared doves Looked out the front window this morning with a cup of coffee. Had a light dusting of snow and it looked so nice. Looked up and on the telephone line were two Eurasian Collared Doves copulating. Not what I was expecting to see this cold morning. Tammy Ashcroft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Still on the search for Snowy From: "amanda.lahaie" <amlahaie AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:30:11 -0000 Hey everyone, I was wondering if anyone has seen the two Snowy Owls on the Pennask Lake Road near Merritt recently. I hope to make a trip up there with my family tomorrow, so I'm hoping they are still around. I also had a stunning dark-morph Red-tailed Hawk perched in a tree in the park across the road yesterday. http://www.flickr.com/photos/photo-frenzy/6763319427/in/photostream/lightbox/ He seemed to be giving me the evil eye! Amanda Princeton ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Eurasian Collared doves From: Tammy Proctor <birdsonly4me AT yahoo.ca> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:42:02 -0800 (PST) Looked out the front window this morning with a cup of coffee. Had a light dusting of snow and it looked so nice. Looked up and on the telephone line were two Eurasian Collared Doves copulating. Not what I was expecting to see this cold morning.   Tammy Ashcroft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Sacramento Nat'l Wildlife Refuge From: Chris Siddle <chris.siddle AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:27:53 -0800 Hi birders, Yesterday, only 45 minutes before it closed, Sonja and I discovered a magical place called Sacramento NWR. The air over the marshes was full of Snow Geese, Greater White-fronts, and Ross's Geese. Bushtits, White-crowned Sparrows, and Yellow-rumped Warblers moved through the bushes while a Black Phoebe caught midges from an overhead wire. This was a place worth re-visiting so we asked at the visitors' center where the nearest R.V. park was We were told that we could park at Walmart, a few kms to the north at Willows. Either that or drive 40 miles back the way we had come. Walmart it was, a first for us. We were back at the refuge at daybreak. A six mile auto tour crossed part of the marsh. Black-tailed Jackrabbits hopped through the high beams as we crept along the road. The most numerous waterfowl were Mallards, Northern Shovellers, Northern Pintails, with lesser numbers of American Wigeon, Green-winged Teal, Cinnamon Teal, Ruddy Ducks, Ring-necked Ducks, and Buffleheads. Other marsh birds includedAmerican Coots, Common Moorhens (Common Gallinules, as the new AOU name appears to be), American White Pelicans, Double-crested Cormorants, Great Blue Herons, Great Egrets, Snowy Egrets, and, best of all, an American Bittern Sonja pointed out to me. Killdeer and Black-necked Stilts were present in small numbers, as well as a few Pied-billed Grebes and an Eared Grebe. Raptors included many Red-tailed Hawks and Northern Harriers, four adult Red-shouldered Hawks, a Merlin, and an accipiter sp. Land birds included Bewick's Wrens, Marsh Wrens, Black Phoebes, a Tree Swallow, Ruby-crowned Kinglets, Yellow-rumped Warblers, an Orange-crowned Warbler, Golden-crowned Sparrows, White-crowned Sparrows, Song Sparrows, a Savannah Sparrow, and a Fox Sparrow. In the deciduous trees around the visitors center I found a male Nuttall's Woodpecker, a species I hadn't seen since 1991. Our short visit (we left at 10 AM) was an excellent introduction to the national wildlife refuges of the Sacramento Valley. Chris Siddle currently Modesto, Cal. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Kelowna birding From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 17:08:01 -0800 Birders, I met Mike Force for a couple hours of birding around the Kelowna Mission area today. I started off alone at Hall Rd while I waited for Mike. Here, the highlight was a female VARIED THRUSH. Otherwise just the usuals. At Mission Ck where I met Mike, we walked the Casorso to K.L.O Rd section. Pretty quiet in there, but a PEREGRINE FALCON made two passes overhead! Also way up was an imm. NORTHERN HARRIER, at least 2 RED-TAILED HAWKS and a BALD EAGLE. A BELTED KINGFISHER flew upstream and briefly perched. Over at Bird Pl, off Cook Rd, we checked Wilson Ck and had 7 WOOD DUCKS, 6 males and a female. Also here was a nice male BELTED KINGFISHER. One quick last stop at Maude Roxby produced one good bird, a second year MEW GULL. Chris Charlesworth Avocet Tours Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Interesting yard bird From: r.howie AT shaw.ca Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:05:06 +0000 Hi Laure: perhaps the wren just sees the houses as a bunch of very large boulders scattered across the landscape. : ) Rick Howie . Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: Laure Neish Sender: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:42:41 To: BC interior birds list Reply-to: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Interesting yard bird Actually it was foraging in my neighbour's car port and wood pile, but yesterday when I returned home from a shopping trip, I heard the distinctive "chink, chink" call of a Canyon Wren and found it with binos across the street. This is not the first time I've seen one in our neighbourhood in the winter as the Ellis Canyon is about 500m -800m? from the house. One December, many years ago, I saw a CANYON WREN picking off spiders, etc. on our house. With all the frigid temps lately, perhaps the bird decided to look for food closer to "civilization". It's not unusual behaviour, it's just that I only see them during an occasional winter day. Has any one else had them in their 'hood? -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Interesting yard bird From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:42:41 -0800 Actually it was foraging in my neighbour's car port and wood pile, but yesterday when I returned home from a shopping trip, I heard the distinctive "chink, chink" call of a Canyon Wren and found it with binos across the street. This is not the first time I've seen one in our neighbourhood in the winter as the Ellis Canyon is about 500m -800m? from the house. One December, many years ago, I saw a CANYON WREN picking off spiders, etc. on our house. With all the frigid temps lately, perhaps the bird decided to look for food closer to "civilization". It's not unusual behaviour, it's just that I only see them during an occasional winter day. Has any one else had them in their 'hood? -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Collared Swans From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:17:48 -0800 Periodically, members of our group have reported neck-collared Tundra Swans and we have been able to get information that all have been collared on their breeding grounds near King Salmon, Alaska. I was just reading about Tundra Swan P851 which was in the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge near Vancouver, Washington last January 18. It sounded like a bird that we had seen pass through the interior but I can't find my record on this one just yet. It too was banded on the upper peninsula of Alaska and was seen in Creston during spring migration on March 16, 2011. This supports the notion that some of the Alaska birds migrate inland of the coastal mountains down through the interior and make their way out to the coast, possibly down the Columbia Valley. Return migration may mirror a similar route. Of course some of the birds do not make it all the way to the coast and may stay in the Okanagan for the winter. Few Tundras stay at Kamloops as they used to now that we have a large Trumpeter Swan population that has taken over. All of this points out the useful information that we can gain from the banding process and of course the willingness of people to submit their sightings. Thanks again to all who do this and if you continue to send me the sightings, I will forward them to the US office that coordinates the banding. My contact there is very good at providing us with location data for the banding. Even repeat sightings of the same birds throughout the winter are great, as these confirm how long and just where they winter and possibly even departure dates if observations are frequent enough in an area. Local movements are also valuable to know about as they tell us about just where the essential wintering habitats are located and how dynamic these bird movements could be. Cheers Rick Howie Kamloops [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: New file uploaded to bcintbird From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Date: 24 Jan 2012 18:55:46 -0000 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the bcintbird group. File : /BC Winter List.xls Uploaded by : marven007ca Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bcintbird/files/BC%20Winter%20List.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html Regards, marven007ca ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Re: Bird Population Estimates From: Fidel Castro <marven007ca AT yahoo.ca> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:58:28 -0800 (PST) Hi Dick We have seen several species of owls on BBS both in Pemberton and Lake Cowichan. I do agree with you on the data though. Derrick Marven North Cowichan, BC ________________________________ From: Dick Cannings To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:18 AM Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Re: Bird Population Estimates   Hi birders: A word about these population estimates. Most of them are based on Breeding Bird Survey data that is then turned in to population density estimates which are multiplied by some area figure. I'm not sure what they do for owls (which aren't seen on BBS), but the 4000 estimate for BC Barn Owls is more than 4 times the actual estimate in the Barn Owl literature (e.g. the COSEWIC report). Getting back to the BBS data-there are some pretty hairy assumptions that are made when converting the raw data into density estimates, not the least of which are the conspicuousness estimates-each species is categorized by how large an area a BBS stop is sampling for them. So a small, skulking, quiet bird might be put in the 50 metre category, while a big loud bird would be put in the 400 metre category. Most are thrown into the 100 or 200-metre categories. You can appreciate that the population estimate would change drastically if it is moved into a new category, e.g. it would go down by a factor of 4 if moved from the 100-metre to 200-metre category (or up by the same factor if moved the other way). I've been hoping that someone will come up with detection probabilities for each species based on real data (these data exist for many species) but haven't heard that this has been done. The other big problem in BC is that BBS routes are not randomly placed in terms of habitats-they are heavily biased to low elevations, so subalpine and alpine habitats are very underrepresented. Thus, if you did a straight calculation based on density and area, low elevation species come out far too abundant and mountain species come out far too rare. I did some work for CWS on this a few years back for their analyses with regards to Bird Conservation Region plans (i.e. coming up with correction factors for each species) but I don't know if these corrections were included in the estimates we're talking about here (I hope so). Anyways, as is already obvious, I would take these estimates with a couple of grains of salt-they do give us an idea of the ballpark that bird populations fall into, but sometimes it's a pretty big ballpark. cheers Dick Cannings Penticton, BC http://dickcannings.com From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Howie Sent: January-23-12 12:37 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Re: Bird Population Estimates That is odd Jeremy. I would send a note to the folks at PIF and ask about their sources. I noticed the pop estimate for Barn Owl was 4000. That seems high to me. Let's hope the estimator has some real data behind it. Rick Howie Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of mcbirder Sent: January-22-12 11:09 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Re: Bird Population Estimates Speaking of variable quality, I was a little perplexed by the inclusion of Chestnut-sided Warbler and Brown Thrasher on the BC list. Not only that, they both have an estimated provincial population of 1300. I know there is the odd report east of the Rockies for each of these species but I thought these were just overshoots. Anyone care to comment on this apparent discrepancy? Overall, it's quite a nice tool to at least give a rough indication of our provincial land-birds' populations. Thanks for sharing! Jeremy Gatten Saanichton, B.C. --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com , "Dianne C." wrote: > > > > > I suspect these population estimates are of variable quality, but it is interesting to look at all the different sets. > > You can look at the percentages of global population by Bird Conservation Region (BCR), and further divide that into human political boundaries. > > Really gives you an idea of which species we, in BC are most responsible for, rather than just red-listed, blue-listed, etc. > > According to this data set, we have 22% of the global population of Black Swift with a population estimate of only 30,000, for example. > > There is probably a formula somewhere to work out a 'significance' value - something lthat takes into consideration world population, BCR population, and the percentages. There could even be worked into that, numbers from wintering areas. > > > Below is a sampling of 5 species - where 'my' BCR has the majority of the world population - by Bird Comservation Region = Northern Rockies > > ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED2.aspx ) > > CAHU 64 of 650,000 > CAVI 63 of 2,900,000 > HAFL 60 of 7,900,000 > MacG W 59 of 3,200,000 > RNSA 66 of 1,500,000 > > Of those five, BC has responsibility for the following percentages with the shown population size. > > ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED1.aspx ) > > CAVI 47 of 2,000,000 > HAFL 46 of 6,000,000 > RNSA 48 of 1,100,000 > > > Of species with a small global population, here is the Regional, and BC responsibilities. > > - low population - Northern Rockies vs BC > BLSW. 22 of 30,000. 21 - 30,000 > LEWO. 12 of 16,000. .5 - 600 > NPOW. 24 of 20,000. 14 - 15,000 > WISA. 31 of 96,000. None > NOGO. 13 of 62,000. 8 - 40,000 > > Am I interpretting this data correctly? > > I am glad someone is considering population distribution based on bio regions, and not just political boundaries. How could we talk to 'lay' people about that? > > Dianne C. > (pardon the typos - on-screen keyboard) > > --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com , "Rick Howie" wrote: > > > > If you have ever wondered about how many individuals of each species of > > landbirds there are in the province or any other major geographical area, > > the Partners in Flight database provides some information about many > > species. > > > > Here is the URL http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/ which you may find of > > interest. You can get some good numbers to use at your next dinner party. > > Comments like "I was surprised that the estimated Barn Owl population for BC > > is 4000," will likely generate some lively discussions if you find that > > things are a bit slow around the table. This is especially true if they are > > the new neighbours and you don't initially have very much in common. Once > > you memorize some estimates from the most well-known species to the average > > person, you will become the hit of the cocktail circuit for sure. > > > > On the other hand you may find it fun to put your birding observations in > > perspective with the big picture so to speak. > > > > > > > > Rick Howie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4761 - Release Date: 01/23/12 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: bohemian waxwings From: Janna Leslie <jannamles AT yahoo.ca> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:34:31 -0800 (PST) Hi all. While on a walk through the snow up above our place I saw a flock of ~50 bohemian waxwings. Cheers, Janna Leslie, Naramata [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Re: Bird Population Estimates From: "Dick Cannings" <dickcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:40:51 -0800 Hi Jeremy: I can only guess that they were detected on some BBS route somewhere, sometime, and that one event was extrapolated to a healthy population! (see my previous post) Dick Cannings Penticton, BC http://dickcannings.com From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcbirder Sent: January-22-12 11:09 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Re: Bird Population Estimates Speaking of variable quality, I was a little perplexed by the inclusion of Chestnut-sided Warbler and Brown Thrasher on the BC list. Not only that, they both have an estimated provincial population of 1300. I know there is the odd report east of the Rockies for each of these species but I thought these were just overshoots. Anyone care to comment on this apparent discrepancy? Overall, it's quite a nice tool to at least give a rough indication of our provincial land-birds' populations. Thanks for sharing! Jeremy Gatten Saanichton, B.C. --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com , "Dianne C." wrote: > > > > > I suspect these population estimates are of variable quality, but it is interesting to look at all the different sets. > > You can look at the percentages of global population by Bird Conservation Region (BCR), and further divide that into human political boundaries. > > Really gives you an idea of which species we, in BC are most responsible for, rather than just red-listed, blue-listed, etc. > > According to this data set, we have 22% of the global population of Black Swift with a population estimate of only 30,000, for example. > > There is probably a formula somewhere to work out a 'significance' value - something lthat takes into consideration world population, BCR population, and the percentages. There could even be worked into that, numbers from wintering areas. > > > Below is a sampling of 5 species - where 'my' BCR has the majority of the world population - by Bird Comservation Region = Northern Rockies > > ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED2.aspx ) > > CAHU 64 of 650,000 > CAVI 63 of 2,900,000 > HAFL 60 of 7,900,000 > MacG W 59 of 3,200,000 > RNSA 66 of 1,500,000 > > Of those five, BC has responsibility for the following percentages with the shown population size. > > ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED1.aspx ) > > CAVI 47 of 2,000,000 > HAFL 46 of 6,000,000 > RNSA 48 of 1,100,000 > > > Of species with a small global population, here is the Regional, and BC responsibilities. > > - low population - Northern Rockies vs BC > BLSW. 22 of 30,000. 21 - 30,000 > LEWO. 12 of 16,000. .5 - 600 > NPOW. 24 of 20,000. 14 - 15,000 > WISA. 31 of 96,000. None > NOGO. 13 of 62,000. 8 - 40,000 > > Am I interpretting this data correctly? > > I am glad someone is considering population distribution based on bio regions, and not just political boundaries. How could we talk to 'lay' people about that? > > Dianne C. > (pardon the typos - on-screen keyboard) > > --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com , "Rick Howie" wrote: > > > > If you have ever wondered about how many individuals of each species of > > landbirds there are in the province or any other major geographical area, > > the Partners in Flight database provides some information about many > > species. > > > > Here is the URL http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/ which you may find of > > interest. You can get some good numbers to use at your next dinner party. > > Comments like "I was surprised that the estimated Barn Owl population for BC > > is 4000," will likely generate some lively discussions if you find that > > things are a bit slow around the table. This is especially true if they are > > the new neighbours and you don't initially have very much in common. Once > > you memorize some estimates from the most well-known species to the average > > person, you will become the hit of the cocktail circuit for sure. > > > > On the other hand you may find it fun to put your birding observations in > > perspective with the big picture so to speak. > > > > > > > > Rick Howie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4761 - Release Date: 01/23/12 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Re: Bird Population Estimates From: "Dick Cannings" <dickcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:18:36 -0800 Hi birders: A word about these population estimates. Most of them are based on Breeding Bird Survey data that is then turned in to population density estimates which are multiplied by some area figure. I'm not sure what they do for owls (which aren't seen on BBS), but the 4000 estimate for BC Barn Owls is more than 4 times the actual estimate in the Barn Owl literature (e.g. the COSEWIC report). Getting back to the BBS data-there are some pretty hairy assumptions that are made when converting the raw data into density estimates, not the least of which are the conspicuousness estimates-each species is categorized by how large an area a BBS stop is sampling for them. So a small, skulking, quiet bird might be put in the 50 metre category, while a big loud bird would be put in the 400 metre category. Most are thrown into the 100 or 200-metre categories. You can appreciate that the population estimate would change drastically if it is moved into a new category, e.g. it would go down by a factor of 4 if moved from the 100-metre to 200-metre category (or up by the same factor if moved the other way). I've been hoping that someone will come up with detection probabilities for each species based on real data (these data exist for many species) but haven't heard that this has been done. The other big problem in BC is that BBS routes are not randomly placed in terms of habitats-they are heavily biased to low elevations, so subalpine and alpine habitats are very underrepresented. Thus, if you did a straight calculation based on density and area, low elevation species come out far too abundant and mountain species come out far too rare. I did some work for CWS on this a few years back for their analyses with regards to Bird Conservation Region plans (i.e. coming up with correction factors for each species) but I don't know if these corrections were included in the estimates we're talking about here (I hope so). Anyways, as is already obvious, I would take these estimates with a couple of grains of salt-they do give us an idea of the ballpark that bird populations fall into, but sometimes it's a pretty big ballpark. cheers Dick Cannings Penticton, BC http://dickcannings.com From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Howie Sent: January-23-12 12:37 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Re: Bird Population Estimates That is odd Jeremy. I would send a note to the folks at PIF and ask about their sources. I noticed the pop estimate for Barn Owl was 4000. That seems high to me. Let's hope the estimator has some real data behind it. Rick Howie Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of mcbirder Sent: January-22-12 11:09 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Re: Bird Population Estimates Speaking of variable quality, I was a little perplexed by the inclusion of Chestnut-sided Warbler and Brown Thrasher on the BC list. Not only that, they both have an estimated provincial population of 1300. I know there is the odd report east of the Rockies for each of these species but I thought these were just overshoots. Anyone care to comment on this apparent discrepancy? Overall, it's quite a nice tool to at least give a rough indication of our provincial land-birds' populations. Thanks for sharing! Jeremy Gatten Saanichton, B.C. --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com , "Dianne C." wrote: > > > > > I suspect these population estimates are of variable quality, but it is interesting to look at all the different sets. > > You can look at the percentages of global population by Bird Conservation Region (BCR), and further divide that into human political boundaries. > > Really gives you an idea of which species we, in BC are most responsible for, rather than just red-listed, blue-listed, etc. > > According to this data set, we have 22% of the global population of Black Swift with a population estimate of only 30,000, for example. > > There is probably a formula somewhere to work out a 'significance' value - something lthat takes into consideration world population, BCR population, and the percentages. There could even be worked into that, numbers from wintering areas. > > > Below is a sampling of 5 species - where 'my' BCR has the majority of the world population - by Bird Comservation Region = Northern Rockies > > ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED2.aspx ) > > CAHU 64 of 650,000 > CAVI 63 of 2,900,000 > HAFL 60 of 7,900,000 > MacG W 59 of 3,200,000 > RNSA 66 of 1,500,000 > > Of those five, BC has responsibility for the following percentages with the shown population size. > > ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED1.aspx ) > > CAVI 47 of 2,000,000 > HAFL 46 of 6,000,000 > RNSA 48 of 1,100,000 > > > Of species with a small global population, here is the Regional, and BC responsibilities. > > - low population - Northern Rockies vs BC > BLSW. 22 of 30,000. 21 - 30,000 > LEWO. 12 of 16,000. .5 - 600 > NPOW. 24 of 20,000. 14 - 15,000 > WISA. 31 of 96,000. None > NOGO. 13 of 62,000. 8 - 40,000 > > Am I interpretting this data correctly? > > I am glad someone is considering population distribution based on bio regions, and not just political boundaries. How could we talk to 'lay' people about that? > > Dianne C. > (pardon the typos - on-screen keyboard) > > --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com , "Rick Howie" wrote: > > > > If you have ever wondered about how many individuals of each species of > > landbirds there are in the province or any other major geographical area, > > the Partners in Flight database provides some information about many > > species. > > > > Here is the URL http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/ which you may find of > > interest. You can get some good numbers to use at your next dinner party. > > Comments like "I was surprised that the estimated Barn Owl population for BC > > is 4000," will likely generate some lively discussions if you find that > > things are a bit slow around the table. This is especially true if they are > > the new neighbours and you don't initially have very much in common. Once > > you memorize some estimates from the most well-known species to the average > > person, you will become the hit of the cocktail circuit for sure. > > > > On the other hand you may find it fun to put your birding observations in > > perspective with the big picture so to speak. > > > > > > > > Rick Howie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4761 - Release Date: 01/23/12 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Re: Bird Population Estimates From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 00:36:46 -0800 That is odd Jeremy. I would send a note to the folks at PIF and ask about their sources. I noticed the pop estimate for Barn Owl was 4000. That seems high to me. Let's hope the estimator has some real data behind it. Rick Howie Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcbirder Sent: January-22-12 11:09 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Re: Bird Population Estimates Speaking of variable quality, I was a little perplexed by the inclusion of Chestnut-sided Warbler and Brown Thrasher on the BC list. Not only that, they both have an estimated provincial population of 1300. I know there is the odd report east of the Rockies for each of these species but I thought these were just overshoots. Anyone care to comment on this apparent discrepancy? Overall, it's quite a nice tool to at least give a rough indication of our provincial land-birds' populations. Thanks for sharing! Jeremy Gatten Saanichton, B.C. --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com , "Dianne C." wrote: > > > > > I suspect these population estimates are of variable quality, but it is interesting to look at all the different sets. > > You can look at the percentages of global population by Bird Conservation Region (BCR), and further divide that into human political boundaries. > > Really gives you an idea of which species we, in BC are most responsible for, rather than just red-listed, blue-listed, etc. > > According to this data set, we have 22% of the global population of Black Swift with a population estimate of only 30,000, for example. > > There is probably a formula somewhere to work out a 'significance' value - something lthat takes into consideration world population, BCR population, and the percentages. There could even be worked into that, numbers from wintering areas. > > > Below is a sampling of 5 species - where 'my' BCR has the majority of the world population - by Bird Comservation Region = Northern Rockies > > ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED2.aspx ) > > CAHU 64 of 650,000 > CAVI 63 of 2,900,000 > HAFL 60 of 7,900,000 > MacG W 59 of 3,200,000 > RNSA 66 of 1,500,000 > > Of those five, BC has responsibility for the following percentages with the shown population size. > > ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED1.aspx ) > > CAVI 47 of 2,000,000 > HAFL 46 of 6,000,000 > RNSA 48 of 1,100,000 > > > Of species with a small global population, here is the Regional, and BC responsibilities. > > - low population - Northern Rockies vs BC > BLSW. 22 of 30,000. 21 - 30,000 > LEWO. 12 of 16,000. .5 - 600 > NPOW. 24 of 20,000. 14 - 15,000 > WISA. 31 of 96,000. None > NOGO. 13 of 62,000. 8 - 40,000 > > Am I interpretting this data correctly? > > I am glad someone is considering population distribution based on bio regions, and not just political boundaries. How could we talk to 'lay' people about that? > > Dianne C. > (pardon the typos - on-screen keyboard) > > --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com , "Rick Howie" wrote: > > > > If you have ever wondered about how many individuals of each species of > > landbirds there are in the province or any other major geographical area, > > the Partners in Flight database provides some information about many > > species. > > > > Here is the URL http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/ which you may find of > > interest. You can get some good numbers to use at your next dinner party. > > Comments like "I was surprised that the estimated Barn Owl population for BC > > is 4000," will likely generate some lively discussions if you find that > > things are a bit slow around the table. This is especially true if they are > > the new neighbours and you don't initially have very much in common. Once > > you memorize some estimates from the most well-known species to the average > > person, you will become the hit of the cocktail circuit for sure. > > > > On the other hand you may find it fun to put your birding observations in > > perspective with the big picture so to speak. > > > > > > > > Rick Howie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Bird Population Estimates From: "mcbirder" <jarofme AT hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:08:32 -0000 Speaking of variable quality, I was a little perplexed by the inclusion of Chestnut-sided Warbler and Brown Thrasher on the BC list. Not only that, they both have an estimated provincial population of 1300. I know there is the odd report east of the Rockies for each of these species but I thought these were just overshoots. Anyone care to comment on this apparent discrepancy? Overall, it's quite a nice tool to at least give a rough indication of our provincial land-birds' populations. Thanks for sharing! Jeremy Gatten Saanichton, B.C. --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, "Dianne C." wrote: > > > > >  I suspect these population estimates are of variable quality, but it is interesting to look at all the different sets. > > You can look at the percentages of global population by Bird Conservation Region (BCR), and further divide that into human political boundaries. > > Really gives you an idea of which species we, in BC are most responsible for, rather than just red-listed, blue-listed, etc. > > According to this data set, we have 22% of the global population of Black Swift with a population estimate of only 30,000, for example. > > There is probably a formula somewhere to work out a 'significance' value - something lthat takes into consideration world population, BCR population, and the percentages. There could even be worked into that, numbers from wintering areas. > > > Below is a sampling of 5 species - where 'my' BCR has the majority of the world population - by Bird Comservation Region = Northern Rockies >   > ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED2.aspx ) >   > CAHU       64 of 650,000 > CAVI         63 of 2,900,000 > HAFL       60 of 7,900,000 > MacG W 59 of 3,200,000 > RNSA      66 of 1,500,000 >   > Of those five, BC has responsibility for the following percentages with the shown population size. >   > ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED1.aspx ) >   > CAVI  47 of 2,000,000 > HAFL 46 of 6,000,000 > RNSA 48 of 1,100,000 > > > Of species with a small global population, here is the Regional, and BC responsibilities. >   > - low population - Northern Rockies vs BC > BLSW.                   22 of 30,000.    21 - 30,000 > LEWO.                   12 of 16,000.    .5 -       600 > NPOW.                  24 of  20,000.   14 -  15,000 > WISA.                    31 of 96,000.    None > NOGO.                  13 of 62,000.     8 -   40,000 > > Am I interpretting this data correctly? > > I am glad someone is considering population distribution based on bio regions, and not just political boundaries. How could we talk to 'lay' people about that? > > Dianne C. > (pardon the typos - on-screen keyboard) > > --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, "Rick Howie" wrote: > > > > If you have ever wondered about how many individuals of each species of > > landbirds there are in the province or any other major geographical area, > > the Partners in Flight database provides some information about many > > species. > > > > Here is the URL http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/ which you may find of > > interest. You can get some good numbers to use at your next dinner party. > > Comments like "I was surprised that the estimated Barn Owl population for BC > > is 4000," will likely generate some lively discussions if you find that > > things are a bit slow around the table. This is especially true if they are > > the new neighbours and you don't initially have very much in common. Once > > you memorize some estimates from the most well-known species to the average > > person, you will become the hit of the cocktail circuit for sure. > > > > On the other hand you may find it fun to put your birding observations in > > perspective with the big picture so to speak. > > > > > > > > Rick Howie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Bohemian Waxwings at last From: "Dick Cannings" <dickcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 16:36:35 -0800 Hi birders: I had a flock of about 30 Bohemian Waxwings in my yard this morning-about 2 and a half months late, but better late than never! Dick Cannings Penticton, BC http://dickcannings.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Summerland report for January 22nd From: Laurie Rockwell <hardrock AT vip.net> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:32:32 -0800 Birders, I made my usual trip from the Adams Bird Sanctuary (ABS) to Crescent Beach,thence to Trout Creek. I was pleased with a count of 26 species when things are so slow right now. I was especially pleased with some findings. For example, a lone Robin; I was so so excited that I waited for it to call again,lest it be a starling! Still no Bohemian Waxwings! I saw my first _Brown Creeper_ of the year at Crescent Beach,always a treat as they intensely scour every nook and cranny of tree trunks. There was so much ice under the docks that the coots had to hide and snooze under more than one pier! Further south I stopped at a vacant lot between houses that has a pier in front of it,giving a good view of the lake shore at that point.I was on the hunt for swans,but I was not prepared for what I found: _5 Trumpeter Swans; 2 adults and 3 gray-brown immatures_ . I have not seen this family all winter any where along Okanagan Lake;no doubt they were using up some air miles. At the marina a small raft of both scaups,Redheads,coots and Mallards were joined by about 6-8 _Canvasbacks_. This is the only group in the Summerland area that I have found all winter and I do not find them very often. At Trout Creek _7 adult Tundra Swans,including the collared adult female P965_, bobbed contentedly as they foraged just off shore. In a large cottonwood on Thornber St. I saw a hawk. As I was getting out my scope from the truck it flew off. I saw it only in time to note that it was the _unusually marked Red-tailed Hawk_ that I saw during the swan-eagle count last week:dark head, very white underneath,no breast band to speak of, a white tail (may have been dirty) with no visible bands, and strong black on the trailing edge of the primaries and well defined patigial markings. The last bird of the morning was a_Sharp-shinned Hawk_ flying over the highwy. Cheers........laurie -- Know Thyself Coaching Summerland, BC, Canada 250-494-7558; knowthyselfcoaching AT vip.net Member International Coach Federation If you do not go within,you will go without [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Bird Population Estimates From: "Dianne C." <kestrel374 AT yahoo.ca> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 05:31:16 -0000  I suspect these population estimates are of variable quality, but it is interesting to look at all the different sets. You can look at the percentages of global population by Bird Conservation Region (BCR), and further divide that into human political boundaries. Really gives you an idea of which species we, in BC are most responsible for, rather than just red-listed, blue-listed, etc. According to this data set, we have 22% of the global population of Black Swift with a population estimate of only 30,000, for example. There is probably a formula somewhere to work out a 'significance' value - something lthat takes into consideration world population, BCR population, and the percentages. There could even be worked into that, numbers from wintering areas. Below is a sampling of 5 species - where 'my' BCR has the majority of the world population - by Bird Comservation Region = Northern Rockies   ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED2.aspx )   CAHU       64 of 650,000 CAVI         63 of 2,900,000 HAFL       60 of 7,900,000 MacG W 59 of 3,200,000 RNSA      66 of 1,500,000   Of those five, BC has responsibility for the following percentages with the shown population size.   ( http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/PED1.aspx )   CAVI  47 of 2,000,000 HAFL 46 of 6,000,000 RNSA 48 of 1,100,000 Of species with a small global population, here is the Regional, and BC responsibilities.   - low population - Northern Rockies vs BC BLSW.                   22 of 30,000.    21 - 30,000 LEWO.                   12 of 16,000.    .5 -       600 NPOW.                  24 of  20,000.   14 -  15,000 WISA.                    31 of 96,000.    None NOGO.                  13 of 62,000.     8 -   40,000 Am I interpretting this data correctly? I am glad someone is considering population distribution based on bio regions, and not just political boundaries. How could we talk to 'lay' people about that? Dianne C. (pardon the typos - on-screen keyboard) --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, "Rick Howie" wrote: > > If you have ever wondered about how many individuals of each species of > landbirds there are in the province or any other major geographical area, > the Partners in Flight database provides some information about many > species. > > Here is the URL http://rmbo.org/pif_db/laped/ which you may find of > interest. You can get some good numbers to use at your next dinner party. > Comments like "I was surprised that the estimated Barn Owl population for BC > is 4000," will likely generate some lively discussions if you find that > things are a bit slow around the table. This is especially true if they are > the new neighbours and you don't initially have very much in common. Once > you memorize some estimates from the most well-known species to the average > person, you will become the hit of the cocktail circuit for sure. > > On the other hand you may find it fun to put your birding observations in > perspective with the big picture so to speak. > > > > Rick Howie > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Hummingbird feeding in winter From: Jack Bowling <jbinpg AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:34:45 -0800 Two successful "almost" overwinterers in PG, Derrick. I say almost because they were flown to the coast before winter ended by a sympathetic airline free of charge. One of these birds survived in a commercial greenhouse for its stay. A couple more where the hummers disappeared after a cold snap and apparently succumbed. Jack Bowling PG On 12-01-20 12:51 PM, Fidel Castro wrote: > Hi Jim > Have you or anyone else have any records of Anna's staying right through > winter in the interior? > > Derrick Marven > North Cowichan, BC > > ________________________________ > From: Jim Mitchell > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:59 AM > Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Hummingbird feeding in winter > > Annas that are here will not migrate. The only way to keep them alive > is to feed them. > > jim > > marven007ca wrote: > > > > Hi Birders > > I wonder if the feeding of hummingbirds in winter is a good thing in > > the interior. Keeping these birds around until the temperature drops > > to some of the levels that you experience to me is a bit selfish. > > These birds will almost all perish or they have to move on wasting > > energy and fats that they ill can afford and perish heading > > south/west/down or which ever way they choose. > > I personally believe that you should not be putting out hummingbird > > feeders after a certain date so as not to keep these poor mites around. > > > > Having said this, as you know we have just gone through a bit of a > > setback in spring here on the island with cold for us temperatures and > > some of that white stuff and are our hummers suffering, well i don't > > think so. The males are chasing the girls around non stop, these poor > > females barely get to stop to feed before some amorous male is after > > her. It won't be long before they are sitting on eggs and feeding > > young, but this is the island and we have lots of other food to > > support them, with flowers blooming, insects and even some sap to help > > them survive this perishing cold -5 weather. > > > > This is a long way different to you people in the interior who suffer > > far greater temperatures and the lack of any other food source. > > > > So keep your feeders indoors until the spring brings the other flying > > buzz bombs to your sunny interior as I don't think it is fair to keep > > the Annas around for your own enjoyment and almost certainly > > condemning them to death. > > > > Derrick Marven > > A proud bird feeder in > > North Cowichan, BC ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Kelowna area birds From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 18:47:03 -0800 I spent the whole day birding in the Central Okanagan today. It was chilly, but at least calm. Bays and inlets along Okanagan Lake are freezing up pretty good. Birding wasn't bad however. I started off at Munson's Pond where I scanned through a flock of 20 or so WHITE-CROWNED SPARROWS. A few SONG SPARROWS and plenty of DARK-EYED JUNCOS and AMERICAN GOLDFINCHES but nothing else too exciting. The Hall Rd subdivision was pretty birdy, but again nothing unusual. Loads of HOUSE FINCHES, HOUSE SPARROWS, DARK-EYED JUNCOS, NORTHERN FLICKERS, STELLER'S JAYS, MOURNING DOVES, SONG SPARROWS and a couple of PYGMY NUTHATCHES around some feeders. My first PINE SISKINS of the year were here. I took a stroll through Sutherland Hills Pk and had a couple of nice BROWN CREEPERS. On my way to Scenic Canyon I had both COOPER'S and SHARP-SHINNED HAWKS, as well as a male AMERICAN KESTREL. Scenic Canyon produced an AMERICAN DIPPER, as well as a nice PACIFIC WREN and a couple of GOLDEN-CROWNED KINGLETS. I then headed for the lakeshore, first stopping at Gyro Beach where there were 4 TRUMPETER SWANS and both BARROW'S and COMMON GOLDENEYE. Out in Okanagan Mountain Park I caught up with WHITE-BREASTED NUTHATCH, MOUNTAIN CHICKADEE, BALD EAGLE, CLARK'S NUTCRACKER and DOWNY WOODPECKER. A MERLIN was seen eating avian prey atop a powerpole. On the lake in the park were COMMON LOON, HORNED GREBE, RED-NECKED GREBE and COMMON MERGANSERS. A stop at Maude Roxby added TUNDRA SWAN to the list and a stop at Sutherland Bay produced AMERICAN WIGEON, GREATER SCAUP, CANVASBACK, REDHEAD, HOODED MERGANSER and BUFFLEHEAD. The Kelowna Landfill, which I scoped from Glenmore Rd added an adult GLAUCOUS GULL, as well as THAYER'S, GLAUCOUS-WINGED, HERRING, RING-BILLED and CALIFORNIA GULLS to my list. Beaver Lk Rd where I finished off was pretty quiet, but I did bump into a flock of COMMON REDPOLLS (about a dozen) at the Beaver Lk Rd, Dee Lk Rd intersection. Also along Dee Lk Rd a couple of km I had a nice female AMERICAN THREE-TOED WOODPECKER. As I drove back down the road, I spotted a RUFFED GROUSE high up in an alder alongside the road. I finished off the day with 64 species, not too bad. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC www.avocettours.ca [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: VCR alert -- Harris’s Hawks in the Sonoran Desert From: "Bill Z" <devilsadvacat AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:51:38 -0000 Some of you might be interested in a birding show on TV that airs tonight (Friday) at 10pm EST on the Nat Geo-Wild channel. It's about Harris's Hawks in the Sonoran Desert. Aerial Assassins premieres Friday, January 20th at 10pm EST. It will re-air Saturday, January 21st at 1am EST and Friday, January 27th at 3pm EST. There is also a preview of this show, at the webpage below: http://10000birds.com/national-geographic-launches-birding-tv-show.htm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WingedFriends/links/TV_001323199075/ I created the folder above to more easily track when the PBS stations and NatGeo are doing shows about birds. At some point I am also going to look up and add the history and science channels. ----------------------- New thought Also ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WingedFriends/links/TV_001323199075/ The last 4 links in this folder are for online videos of great bird shows I have seen recently on TV and you don't have to join the WingedFriends group to see or use the links. Bill Zardus ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Re: Bird feeding article From: "Carol" <ctaffy2 AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:38:25 -0800 I agree that it is a dead subject. Delete works so well. Carol -----Original Message----- From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Rockwell Sent: January-20-12 1:12 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article Jim et al, The irony to me is that we revisit this issue,and several other topical issues every year and we always have the same players with their own (usually adamant) positions. I do not see much learning happening here,so I always hit "delete" as I used to do by lifting the needle arm off a stuck record. Cheers..........Laurie R On 20/01/2012 11:59 AM, Jim Mitchell wrote: > ok guys. enoughs enough. You have again managed to progress to the > point where you are just baiting one another to get the last word in. > > > Russell Cannings wrote: >> Thank you for the measured response Jason, >> >> I think it sums up your arguments nicely. I'm sure many people are now reconsidering their backyard set-up. >> >> And now we move on. >> >> Russ Cannings >> Burnaby, BC >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jason Rogers >> Date: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:28 am >> Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article >> To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com >> >> >>> Jim, as Russ posed questions to me in public, I should answer them >>> in public. Believe me, no one wants this thread to die more than I, >>> as I do not have the time to be constantly checking this group for >>> new attempts to undermine the importance of this issue. >>> >>> >>> >>> Russ, positive trends in feeder species alone are not necessarily >>> indicative of the absence of an effect on those trends from limiting >>> factors exacerbated by feeding. One needs to ask: What would the >>> trends be in the absence of attractants? >>> And people need to realize that in nature, survival, densification, >>> and expansion are not necessarily beneficial. >>> Often, an increase or change in one species comes at the expense of >>> another or may trigger something entirely unexpected, such as the >>> emergence of a disease (e.g., mycoplasmal conjunctivitis in >>> passerines). Nature is not static, but when we know that we are >>> responsible for changes, we have to take a hard look at the >>> necessity of what we're doing. >>> >>> >>> >>> Getting rid of attractants does not equate to turning one's yard >>> into a concrete pad. It just means--well--getting rid of >>> attractants. There's no reason why a yard can't be a green space of >>> native vegetation while avoiding or strategically locating things >>> that are particularly attractive to birds. >>> >>> >>> >>> Rather than focusing on attacking one threat to birds because it is >>> known or thought to be more of a problem, we should be making >>> efforts to reduce all threats knowing that--as I've said before-- >>> threats to birds are cumulative and synergistic. >>> >>> >>> >>> Intolerance is not always a bad thing. As for respect, while I don't >>> expect any from members of this group, people need to know that if >>> they want mine, they'll have to earn it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jason Rogers >>> >>> Banff, AB >>> hawkowl AT hotmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com >>> From: butcher99 AT gmail.com >>> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:08:42 -0800 >>> Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This thread should be allowed to die a natural death. >>> >>> Russell Cannings wrote: >>> > >>> >>> > *Note: Sorry to those who are just waiting for this thread to >>> go away, >>> >>>> but here goes... >>>> >>> > >>> > Hi Jason, >>> > >>> > I value your viewpoints and I'm glad that you have brought many >>> new >>> >>>> studies to light. I am always happy to hear about new ideas >>>> >>> and am >>> >>>> certainly open to change. I personally do not feed birds but >>>> >>> would be >>> >>>> happy to pass on your message if I felt things were as dire as >>>> >>> you >>> >>>> make them out to be (in regards to the bird-feeding problem). >>>> >>> If you >>> >>>> wouldn't mind clarifying a few things, I would really >>>> >>> appreciate it---> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- >>> family:Arial;padding:0 10px;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp hr >>> {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp #ecxhd >>> {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;} >>> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp #ecxads {margin-bottom:10px;} >>> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad {padding:0 0;} .ExternalClass >>> #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad p {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad a >>> {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp- >>> sponsor #ecxygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp- >>> sponsor #ecxygrp-lc #ecxhd 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------------------------------------ >>> >>> To contact the moderator email >>> bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com >>> Also, consider joining these groups. >>> bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. >>> If you have pictures to share try this group. >>> http://groups-beta.google.com/ >>> From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can >>> see the pictures. >>> Subject: RE: Urbanization Effects on Birds From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:32:02 -0800 Hmm. I pasted the opening statement into the text but it did not come through. The statement was " The effect of urbanization can be immense, yet our understanding is rudimentary." This was written in 2006. Rick Howie Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Howie Sent: January-20-12 1:29 PM To: BCINTBIRD Subject: [bcintbird] Urbanization Effects on Birds I have uploaded a pdf paper to the files section. It is by Chace & Walsh and it examines the positive and negative effects of urbanization on birds. Who wins, who loses? It is a longer review but no heavy statistics. The recently popular topics of window strikes and bird feeding are dealt with as merely two of numerous influences from urbanization. Again, it is necessarily broad-based and summary-oriented but it does help to envision context and trends for species groups etc. I think the opening statement in the abstract sets the tone. Rick Howie Kamloops [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Urbanization Effects on Birds From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:29:17 -0800 I have uploaded a pdf paper to the files section. It is by Chace & Walsh and it examines the positive and negative effects of urbanization on birds. Who wins, who loses? It is a longer review but no heavy statistics. The recently popular topics of window strikes and bird feeding are dealt with as merely two of numerous influences from urbanization. Again, it is necessarily broad-based and summary-oriented but it does help to envision context and trends for species groups etc. I think the opening statement in the abstract sets the tone. Rick Howie Kamloops [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Re: Bird feeding article From: Laurie Rockwell <hardrock AT vip.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:11:47 -0800 Jim et al, The irony to me is that we revisit this issue,and several other topical issues every year and we always have the same players with their own (usually adamant) positions. I do not see much learning happening here,so I always hit "delete" as I used to do by lifting the needle arm off a stuck record. Cheers..........Laurie R On 20/01/2012 11:59 AM, Jim Mitchell wrote: > ok guys. enoughs enough. You have again managed to progress to the point > where you are just baiting one another to get the last word in. > > > Russell Cannings wrote: >> Thank you for the measured response Jason, >> >> I think it sums up your arguments nicely. I'm sure many people are now reconsidering their backyard set-up. >> >> And now we move on. >> >> Russ Cannings >> Burnaby, BC >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jason Rogers >> Date: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:28 am >> Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article >> To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com >> >> >>> Jim, as Russ posed questions to me in public, I should answer >>> them in public. Believe me, no one wants this thread to die more >>> than I, as I do not have the time to be constantly checking this >>> group for new attempts to undermine the importance of this issue. >>> >>> >>> >>> Russ, positive trends in feeder species alone are not >>> necessarily indicative of the absence of an effect on those >>> trends from limiting factors exacerbated by feeding. One needs >>> to ask: What would the trends be in the absence of attractants? >>> And people need to realize that in nature, survival, >>> densification, and expansion are not necessarily beneficial. >>> Often, an increase or change in one species comes at the expense >>> of another or may trigger something entirely unexpected, such as >>> the emergence of a disease (e.g., mycoplasmal conjunctivitis in >>> passerines). Nature is not static, but when we know that we are >>> responsible for changes, we have to take a hard look at the >>> necessity of what we’re doing. >>> >>> >>> >>> Getting rid of attractants does not equate to turning one’s yard >>> into a concrete pad. It just means--well--getting rid of >>> attractants. There’s no reason why a yard can’t be a green space >>> of native vegetation while avoiding or strategically locating >>> things that are particularly attractive to birds. >>> >>> >>> >>> Rather than focusing on attacking one threat to birds because it >>> is known or thought to be more of a problem, we should be making >>> efforts to reduce all threats knowing that--as I’ve said before-- >>> threats to birds are cumulative and synergistic. >>> >>> >>> >>> Intolerance is not always a bad thing. As for respect, while I >>> don’t expect any from members of this group, people need to know >>> that if they want mine, they’ll have to earn it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jason Rogers >>> >>> Banff, AB >>> hawkowl AT hotmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com >>> From: butcher99 AT gmail.com >>> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:08:42 -0800 >>> Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This thread should be allowed to die a natural death. >>> >>> Russell Cannings wrote: >>> > >>> >>> > *Note: Sorry to those who are just waiting for this >>> thread to go away, >>> >>>> but here goes... >>>> >>> > >>> > Hi Jason, >>> > >>> > I value your viewpoints and I'm glad that you have >>> brought many new >>> >>>> studies to light. I am always happy to hear about new ideas >>>> >>> and am >>> >>>> certainly open to change. I personally do not feed birds but >>>> >>> would be >>> >>>> happy to pass on your message if I felt things were as dire as >>>> >>> you >>> >>>> make them out to be (in regards to the bird-feeding problem). >>>> >>> If you >>> >>>> wouldn't mind clarifying a few things, I would really >>>> >>> appreciate it---> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- >>> family:Arial;padding:0 10px;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp hr >>> {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp #ecxhd >>> {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;} >>> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp #ecxads {margin-bottom:10px;} >>> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad {padding:0 0;} .ExternalClass >>> #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad p {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad a >>> {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp- >>> sponsor #ecxygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp- >>> sponsor #ecxygrp-lc #ecxhd 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>>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> To contact the moderator email >>> bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com >>> Also, consider joining these groups. >>> bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. >>> If you have pictures to share try this group. >>> http://groups-beta.google.com/ >>> From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you >>> can see the pictures. >>> Subject: RE: Hummingbird feeding in winter From: "Dick Cannings" <dickcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:13:44 -0800 Hi Derrick et al.: We've had 2 pairs of Anna's here (one in Penticton and one in Summerland) this winter. The Summerland pair disappeared from the feeder they were frequenting during the recent cold spell, as did the male of the Penticton pair. But the female in Penticton looks in fine health according to all reports. The Penticton birds were also going to a different feeder a lot (and I don't have the contact info for that site), so the male might have just hunkered down there. As for past reports, there was one that overwintered through some pretty nasty weather one year in south Oliver (at Harold and Joan King's); it disappeared just after the weather warmed up in March, so was presumably going off to find company after getting through the winter. cheers Dick Cannings Penticton, BC http://dickcannings.com From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fidel Castro Sent: January-20-12 12:51 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Hummingbird feeding in winter Hi Jim Have you or anyone else have any records of Anna's staying right through winter in the interior? Derrick Marven North Cowichan, BC ________________________________ From: Jim Mitchell > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Hummingbird feeding in winter Annas that are here will not migrate. The only way to keep them alive is to feed them. jim marven007ca wrote: > > Hi Birders > I wonder if the feeding of hummingbirds in winter is a good thing in > the interior. Keeping these birds around until the temperature drops > to some of the levels that you experience to me is a bit selfish. > These birds will almost all perish or they have to move on wasting > energy and fats that they ill can afford and perish heading > south/west/down or which ever way they choose. > I personally believe that you should not be putting out hummingbird > feeders after a certain date so as not to keep these poor mites around. > > Having said this, as you know we have just gone through a bit of a > setback in spring here on the island with cold for us temperatures and > some of that white stuff and are our hummers suffering, well i don't > think so. The males are chasing the girls around non stop, these poor > females barely get to stop to feed before some amorous male is after > her. It won't be long before they are sitting on eggs and feeding > young, but this is the island and we have lots of other food to > support them, with flowers blooming, insects and even some sap to help > them survive this perishing cold -5 weather. > > This is a long way different to you people in the interior who suffer > far greater temperatures and the lack of any other food source. > > So keep your feeders indoors until the spring brings the other flying > buzz bombs to your sunny interior as I don't think it is fair to keep > the Annas around for your own enjoyment and almost certainly > condemning them to death. > > Derrick Marven > A proud bird feeder in > North Cowichan, BC > > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:00:41 -0800 I can affirm that my sighting was not photo-documented. Of course it was seen by an impeccably-qualified observer with no one else present to confound the sighting. Alas, it has become relegated to a second tier record of a dubious nature with the fine digital documentation from Nakusp. Precedent setting indeed. Rick Howie Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fidel Castro Sent: January-20-12 12:45 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... Hi Gary I can't speak for the interior, but here on the island we have had many winter sightings of Swainson's over the years, some have come with good details. On the Duncan Christmas Bird Count i think we have had two records one of which was accepted. Victoria has had several but I'm not sure if any were accepted, the last record which went before the records committee was rejected. You sighting which comes with photo's is possibly the first photo documented one. This will throw a whole new light on submitted records from now on for this species in winter, precedent setting. Good find Derrick Marven North Cowichan, BC ________________________________ From: Gary Davidson > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:11 PM Subject: [bcintbird] Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... I went down to the now famous compost bins this aft to check once more for the Wilson's Warbler. I did not see it, but I got big surprise when a Catharus thrush popped up. I quickly shot off a few pictures, assuming it was a Hermit Thrush. Then when I actually got around to looking at the bird, I was even more surprised to see that it was a Swainson's Thrush! I have uploaded 2 photos to my folder called Kootenay Country.I don't recall ever hearing of a Swainson's Thrush in winter in the interior. Anyone know the history of this species in winter? Gary [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... From: Gwynneth Wilson <gwynnethwilson AT yahoo.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:55:24 -0800 (PST) A Swainson's thrush was seen on the 2007 Kelowna CBC by Joyce Fraser and her group ..No photo!  Gwynneth Gwynneth Wilson 250-762-6876 From: Chris Siddle To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 12:50:01 PM Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that...   Hi birders, I think Derrick (Fidel) is correct in that Gary may have taken the FIRST PHOTOS of a wintering Swainson's Thrush in B.C. Now I'm sure we'll hear from someone who beat him to it. Chris S. On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Chris Siddle wrote: > Hi Rick and Gary, > > Traditionally reports of winter Swainson's Thrushes are greeted with hoots > of derision by experienced birders. That's how unusual they are, they being > the Swainson's Thrushes in winter, not the experienced birders, though many > an birder is unusual, but we know that. > > In the spirit of this traditional skepticism, I've decided not to believe > either of you. > > Just kidding. I have never been so lucky as to find one. The best I could > come up with was a Hermit Thrush in Oliver in November (2010?) which can't > compete. > > Thrushless in Vernon, our departure delayed by dental issues and ice > storms, > > Chris S. > > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Rick Howie wrote: > >> HI Gary: I had one on the Shuswap Lake Christmas Count at Sorrento in >> 1988. >> I was shocked to realize that it was 24 years ago. I seems like it was >> just >> a few years back as I kept looking back through my records. This aging >> business really sucks. >> >> This was the first and only Swainee that I have ever seen during the >> winter >> in the interior. That year, there was one or two reported in mid to >> southern >> interior Washington I recall. I saw my bird at very close range and it >> was >> not a Hermit Thrush for sure. Details passed muster with the local CBC >> regional commandante who has a sharp eye for such minutiae. It was and >> still is Dick Cannings. I also had an Orange-crowned Warbler in the >> general >> vicinity. That was a first and only as well. >> >> >> >> Rick Howie >> >> Kamloops >> >> >> >> From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Gary Davidson >> Sent: January-19-12 6:12 PM >> To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [bcintbird] Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I went down to the now famous compost bins this aft to check once more for >> the Wilson's Warbler. I did not see it, but I got big surprise when a >> Catharus thrush popped up. I quickly shot off a few pictures, assuming it >> was a Hermit Thrush. Then when I actually got around to looking at the >> bird, >> I was even more surprised to see that it was a Swainson's Thrush! I have >> uploaded 2 photos to my folder called Kootenay Country.I don't recall ever >> hearing of a Swainson's Thrush in winter in the interior. Anyone know the >> history of this species in winter? >> Gary >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> To contact the moderator email >> bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com >> Also, consider joining these groups. >> bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. >> If you have pictures to share try this group. >> http://groups-beta.google.com/ >> From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see >> the pictures. >> Subject: Re: Hummingbird feeding in winter From: Fidel Castro <marven007ca AT yahoo.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:51:16 -0800 (PST) Hi Jim Have you or anyone else have any records of Anna's staying right through winter in the interior? Derrick Marven North Cowichan, BC ________________________________ From: Jim Mitchell To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Hummingbird feeding in winter   Annas that are here will not migrate. The only way to keep them alive is to feed them. jim marven007ca wrote: > > Hi Birders > I wonder if the feeding of hummingbirds in winter is a good thing in > the interior. Keeping these birds around until the temperature drops > to some of the levels that you experience to me is a bit selfish. > These birds will almost all perish or they have to move on wasting > energy and fats that they ill can afford and perish heading > south/west/down or which ever way they choose. > I personally believe that you should not be putting out hummingbird > feeders after a certain date so as not to keep these poor mites around. > > Having said this, as you know we have just gone through a bit of a > setback in spring here on the island with cold for us temperatures and > some of that white stuff and are our hummers suffering, well i don't > think so. The males are chasing the girls around non stop, these poor > females barely get to stop to feed before some amorous male is after > her. It won't be long before they are sitting on eggs and feeding > young, but this is the island and we have lots of other food to > support them, with flowers blooming, insects and even some sap to help > them survive this perishing cold -5 weather. > > This is a long way different to you people in the interior who suffer > far greater temperatures and the lack of any other food source. > > So keep your feeders indoors until the spring brings the other flying > buzz bombs to your sunny interior as I don't think it is fair to keep > the Annas around for your own enjoyment and almost certainly > condemning them to death. > > Derrick Marven > A proud bird feeder in > North Cowichan, BC > > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com  an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group.  http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... From: Chris Siddle <chris.siddle AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:50:01 -0800 Hi birders, I think Derrick (Fidel) is correct in that Gary may have taken the FIRST PHOTOS of a wintering Swainson's Thrush in B.C. Now I'm sure we'll hear from someone who beat him to it. Chris S. On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Chris Siddle wrote: > Hi Rick and Gary, > > Traditionally reports of winter Swainson's Thrushes are greeted with hoots > of derision by experienced birders. That's how unusual they are, they being > the Swainson's Thrushes in winter, not the experienced birders, though many > an birder is unusual, but we know that. > > In the spirit of this traditional skepticism, I've decided not to believe > either of you. > > Just kidding. I have never been so lucky as to find one. The best I could > come up with was a Hermit Thrush in Oliver in November (2010?) which can't > compete. > > Thrushless in Vernon, our departure delayed by dental issues and ice > storms, > > Chris S. > > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Rick Howie wrote: > >> HI Gary: I had one on the Shuswap Lake Christmas Count at Sorrento in >> 1988. >> I was shocked to realize that it was 24 years ago. I seems like it was >> just >> a few years back as I kept looking back through my records. This aging >> business really sucks. >> >> This was the first and only Swainee that I have ever seen during the >> winter >> in the interior. That year, there was one or two reported in mid to >> southern >> interior Washington I recall. I saw my bird at very close range and it >> was >> not a Hermit Thrush for sure. Details passed muster with the local CBC >> regional commandante who has a sharp eye for such minutiae. It was and >> still is Dick Cannings. I also had an Orange-crowned Warbler in the >> general >> vicinity. That was a first and only as well. >> >> >> >> Rick Howie >> >> Kamloops >> >> >> >> From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Gary Davidson >> Sent: January-19-12 6:12 PM >> To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [bcintbird] Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I went down to the now famous compost bins this aft to check once more for >> the Wilson's Warbler. I did not see it, but I got big surprise when a >> Catharus thrush popped up. I quickly shot off a few pictures, assuming it >> was a Hermit Thrush. Then when I actually got around to looking at the >> bird, >> I was even more surprised to see that it was a Swainson's Thrush! I have >> uploaded 2 photos to my folder called Kootenay Country.I don't recall ever >> hearing of a Swainson's Thrush in winter in the interior. Anyone know the >> history of this species in winter? >> Gary >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> To contact the moderator email >> bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com >> Also, consider joining these groups. >> bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. >> If you have pictures to share try this group. >> http://groups-beta.google.com/ >> From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see >> the pictures. >> Subject: Re: Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that... From: Fidel Castro <marven007ca AT yahoo.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:44:33 -0800 (PST) Hi Gary I can't speak for the interior, but here on the island we have had many winter sightings of Swainson's over the years, some have come with good details. On the Duncan Christmas Bird Count i think we have had two records one of which was accepted. Victoria has had several but I'm not sure if any were accepted, the last record which went before the records committee was rejected. You sighting which comes with photo's is possibly the first photo documented one. This will throw a whole new light on submitted records from now on for this species in winter, precedent setting. Good find Derrick Marven North Cowichan, BC ________________________________ From: Gary Davidson To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:11 PM Subject: [bcintbird] Wilson's Warbler? no, but better than that...   I went down to the now famous compost bins this aft to check once more for the Wilson's Warbler. I did not see it, but I got big surprise when a Catharus thrush popped up. I  quickly shot off a few pictures, assuming it was a Hermit Thrush. Then when I actually got around to looking at the bird, I was even more surprised to see that it was a Swainson's Thrush! I have uploaded 2 photos to my folder called Kootenay Country.I don't recall ever hearing of a Swainson's Thrush in winter in the interior. Anyone know the history of this species in winter? Gary [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Hummingbird feeding in winter From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:39:26 -0800 Hi Derrick: the post-breeding movement of Anna's Hummingbirds into the interior indeed results in birds being attracted to feeders, usually long after the 3 summering species have left. Some people may purposely leave their feeders up to attract them while people I have met are leaving syrup feeders for House Finches and they attract an Anna's quite by surprise. They then feel obligated to continue the feeding of course. I have often wondered if the itinerant Anna's ever do turn around and return to climates that are more winter friendly. I have long suspected that those that arrive in the interior and don't find a feeder simply succumb to winter and remain unnoticed. So it may be that during some winters, birds at feeders can survive so long as we don't get really cold periods. Or, they may simply survive until our typical mid-winter arctic air mass causes their demise, feeders or not. It may simply be a prolonging of the inevitable. The birds would not have left regardless and would have perished. This seems to be the way of natural selection - harsh but effective. Now I will confess that this is just assumption on my part. I have seen no research on the complete cycle of dispersal patterns into the interior. There is plenty of evidence to document the one-way flight patterns northward in late fall or early winter. I have not seen anything that tracks a dispersed bird and proves any sort of return migration before cold weather hits. If anyone has any knowledge of this, it would be of interest for sure. I have had phone calls from people genuinely worried that they are actually keeping these birds from migrating by feeding them and they would remove the feeders if there is some assurance that the birds would return south. I have never been able to say conclusively that the birds will do that. If there is a chance, I think you would see cooperation by feeder operators or they may simply not put out their syrup feeders after a certain date. We have had some birds arrive by late October if not earlier, and a few summer records but no evidence of breeding yet. Rick Howie Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of marven007ca Sent: January-20-12 11:54 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Hummingbird feeding in winter Hi Birders I wonder if the feeding of hummingbirds in winter is a good thing in the interior. Keeping these birds around until the temperature drops to some of the levels that you experience to me is a bit selfish. These birds will almost all perish or they have to move on wasting energy and fats that they ill can afford and perish heading south/west/down or which ever way they choose. I personally believe that you should not be putting out hummingbird feeders after a certain date so as not to keep these poor mites around. Having said this, as you know we have just gone through a bit of a setback in spring here on the island with cold for us temperatures and some of that white stuff and are our hummers suffering, well i don't think so. The males are chasing the girls around non stop, these poor females barely get to stop to feed before some amorous male is after her. It won't be long before they are sitting on eggs and feeding young, but this is the island and we have lots of other food to support them, with flowers blooming, insects and even some sap to help them survive this perishing cold -5 weather. This is a long way different to you people in the interior who suffer far greater temperatures and the lack of any other food source. So keep your feeders indoors until the spring brings the other flying buzz bombs to your sunny interior as I don't think it is fair to keep the Annas around for your own enjoyment and almost certainly condemning them to death. Derrick Marven A proud bird feeder in North Cowichan, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: email group debates From: Russell Cannings <russellcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:24:50 -0800 Jim and others, I suppose this is another example of how emails can mask intent... I was not being sarcastic in the slightest. I really do value Jason's input and clearly this was an important discussion to have. Perhaps I should have messaged Jason privately regarding a few of my questions, but I thought some other members of the group might also find it useful.  I sincerely apologize to those at home who are pulling their hair out over this. I don't think this issue would be as vexing or as polarizing as it has been on this group, if each side just kept their cool and used reasonable and respectful lingo to make their points. This is a discussion board for bird sightings and bird issues; it should never get to the point where members feel impelled to leave for good etc. etc.  But I understand we're all human... and it is hard to find that balance between the fun of bird-watching and nature-loving, and the serious issues that the planet faces moving forward.  Ultimately we're all on the same team. One Love, Russ Cannings Burnaby, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Mitchell Date: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:59 am Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > ok guys. enoughs enough. You have again managed to progress to > the point > where you are just baiting one another to get the last word in. > > > Russell Cannings wrote: > > Thank you for the measured response Jason, > > > > I think it sums up your arguments nicely. I'm sure many people > are now reconsidering their backyard set-up. > > > > And now we move on. > > > > Russ Cannings > > Burnaby, BC > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jason Rogers > > Date: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:28 am > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > >   > >> Jim, as Russ posed questions to me in public, I should answer > >> them in public. Believe me, no one wants this thread to die > more > >> than I, as I do not have the time to be constantly checking > this > >> group for new attempts to undermine the importance of this issue. > >> > >>  > >> > >> Russ, positive trends in feeder species alone are not > >> necessarily indicative of the absence of an effect on those > >> trends from limiting factors exacerbated by feeding. One > needs > >> to ask: What would the trends be in the absence of > attractants? > >> And people need to realize that in nature, survival, > >> densification, and expansion are not necessarily beneficial. > >> Often, an increase or change in one species comes at the > expense > >> of another or may trigger something entirely unexpected, such > as > >> the emergence of a disease (e.g., mycoplasmal conjunctivitis > in > >> passerines). Nature is not static, but when we know that we > are > >> responsible for changes, we have to take a hard look at the > >> necessity of what we’re doing. > >> > >>  > >> > >> Getting rid of attractants does not equate to turning one’s > yard > >> into a concrete pad. It just means--well--getting rid of > >> attractants. There’s no reason why a yard can’t be a green > space > >> of native vegetation while avoiding or strategically locating > >> things that are particularly attractive to birds. > >> > >>  > >> > >> Rather than focusing on attacking one threat to birds because > it > >> is known or thought to be more of a problem, we should be > making > >> efforts to reduce all threats knowing that--as I’ve said > before-- > >> threats to birds are cumulative and synergistic. > >> > >>  > >> > >> Intolerance is not always a bad thing. As for respect, while > I > >> don’t expect any from members of this group, people need to > know > >> that if they want mine, they’ll have to earn it. > >> > >>  > >> > >> Jason Rogers > >> > >> Banff, AB > >> hawkowl AT hotmail.com > >> > >>  > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > >> From: butcher99 AT gmail.com > >> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:08:42 -0800 > >> Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article > >> > >>  > >> > >> > >> > >> This thread should be allowed to die a natural death. > >>  > >> Russell Cannings wrote: > >>  > > >>     > >>  > *Note: Sorry to those who are just waiting for this > >> thread to go away, > >>     > >>> but here goes... > >>>       > >>  > > >>  > Hi Jason, > >>  > > >>  > I value your viewpoints and I'm glad that you have > >> brought many new > >>     > >>> studies to light. I am always happy to hear about new ideas > >>>       > >> and am > >>     > >>> certainly open to change. I personally do not feed birds but > >>>       > >> would be > >>     > >>> happy to pass on your message if I felt things were as dire > as > >>>       > >> you > >>     > >>> make them out to be (in regards to the bird-feeding > problem). > >>>       > >> If you > >>     > >>> wouldn't mind clarifying a few things, I would really > >>>       > >> appreciate it---> > >>  > > >>  > > >>  > > >>  > > >> > >> > >> > >>  .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp {border:1px solid > #d8d8d8;font- > >> family:Arial;padding:0 10px;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp hr > >> {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp > #ecxhd > >> {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line- > height:122%;} > >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp #ecxads {margin-bottom:10px;} > >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad {padding:0 0;} > .ExternalClass > >> #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad p {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad > a > >> {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp- > >> sponsor #ecxygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;} .ExternalClass > #ecxygrp- > >> sponsor #ecxygrp-lc #ecxhd {font-weight:700;font- > size:78%;line- > >> height:122%;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxygrp-lc > .ecxad > >> {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} .ExternalClass a > >> {color:#1e66ae;} .ExternalClass #ecxactions {font- > >> family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} .ExternalClass > >> #ecxactivity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font- > >> family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} .ExternalClass > >> #ecxactivity span {font-weight:700;} .ExternalClass > #ecxactivity > >> span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass > >> #ecxactivity span span {color:#ff7900;} .ExternalClass > >> #ecxactivity span .ecxunderline {text-decoration:underline;} > >> .ExternalClass .ecxattach {clear:both;display:table;font- > >> family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} > >> .ExternalClass .ecxattach div a {text-decoration:none;} > >> .ExternalClass .ecxattach img {border:none;padding- > right:5px;} > >> .ExternalClass .ecxattach label {display:block;margin- > >> bottom:5px;} .ExternalClass .ecxattach label a {text- > >> decoration:none;} .ExternalClass blockquote {;} > .ExternalClass > >> .ecxbold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} > >> .ExternalClass .ecxbold a {text-decoration:none;} > .ExternalClass > >> dd.ecxlast p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} > >> .ExternalClass dd.ecxlast p span {margin-right:10px;font- > >> family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} .ExternalClass dd.ecxlast p > >> span.ecxyshortcuts {margin-right:0;} .ExternalClass > >> div.ecxattach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;} > >> .ExternalClass div.ecxattach-table {width:400px;} > .ExternalClass > >> div.ecxfile-title a, .ExternalClass div.ecxfile-title > a:active, > >> .ExternalClass div.ecxfile-title a:hover, .ExternalClass > >> div.ecxfile-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} > >> .ExternalClass div.ecxphoto-title a, .ExternalClass > div.ecxphoto- > >> title a:active, .ExternalClass div.ecxphoto-title a:hover, > >> .ExternalClass div.ecxphoto-title a:visited {text- > >> decoration:none;} .ExternalClass ecxdiv#ygrp-mlmsg #ecxygrp- > msg > >> p a span.ecxyshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font- > size:10px;font- > >> weight:normal;} .ExternalClass .ecxgreen {color:#628c2a;} > >> .ExternalClass .ecxMsoNormal {;} .ExternalClass ecxo {font- > >> size:0;} .ExternalClass #ecxphotos div > {float:left;width:72px;} > >> .ExternalClass #ecxphotos div div {border:1px solid > >> #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} > .ExternalClass > >> #ecxphotos div label {color:#666666;font- > >> size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white- > >> space:nowrap;width:64px;} .ExternalClass #ecxreco-category > {font- > >> size:77%;} .ExternalClass #ecxreco-desc {font-size:77%;} > >> .ExternalClass .ecxreplbq {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg > >> {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica,clean, sans- > serif;} > >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg table {font- > >> size:inherit;font:100%;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg > select, > >> .ExternalClass input, .ExternalClass textarea {font:99% > Arial, > >> Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg > >> pre, .ExternalClass code {font:115% monospace;} > .ExternalClass > >> #ecxygrp-mlmsg ecx* {line-height:1.22em;} .ExternalClass > >> #ecxygrp-mlmsg #ecxlogo {padding-bottom:10px;} .ExternalClass > >> #ecxygrp-mlmsg a {color:#1E66AE;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-msg > p > >> a {font-family:Verdana;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-msg > ecxp#attach- > >> count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} .ExternalClass > >> #ecxygrp-reco #ecxreco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} > >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-reco {margin- > bottom:20px;padding:0px;} > >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov li a {font- > size:130%;text- > >> decoration:none;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov li > >> {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} > >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov ul {padding:0 0 0 > 8px;} > >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;} > >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-text p {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp- > text > >> tt {font- > >> > size:120%;}                                               > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> To contact the moderator email > >> bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > >> Also, consider joining these groups. > >> bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com  an all BC group. > >> If you have pictures to share try this group.  > >> http://groups-beta.google.com/ > >> From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before > you > >> can see the pictures. > >> Subject: Re: Hummingbird feeding in winter From: Jim Mitchell <butcher99 AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:59:54 -0800 Annas that are here will not migrate. The only way to keep them alive is to feed them. jim marven007ca wrote: > > Hi Birders > I wonder if the feeding of hummingbirds in winter is a good thing in > the interior. Keeping these birds around until the temperature drops > to some of the levels that you experience to me is a bit selfish. > These birds will almost all perish or they have to move on wasting > energy and fats that they ill can afford and perish heading > south/west/down or which ever way they choose. > I personally believe that you should not be putting out hummingbird > feeders after a certain date so as not to keep these poor mites around. > > Having said this, as you know we have just gone through a bit of a > setback in spring here on the island with cold for us temperatures and > some of that white stuff and are our hummers suffering, well i don't > think so. The males are chasing the girls around non stop, these poor > females barely get to stop to feed before some amorous male is after > her. It won't be long before they are sitting on eggs and feeding > young, but this is the island and we have lots of other food to > support them, with flowers blooming, insects and even some sap to help > them survive this perishing cold -5 weather. > > This is a long way different to you people in the interior who suffer > far greater temperatures and the lack of any other food source. > > So keep your feeders indoors until the spring brings the other flying > buzz bombs to your sunny interior as I don't think it is fair to keep > the Annas around for your own enjoyment and almost certainly > condemning them to death. > > Derrick Marven > A proud bird feeder in > North Cowichan, BC > > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Re: Bird feeding article From: Jim Mitchell <butcher99 AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:59:10 -0800 ok guys. enoughs enough. You have again managed to progress to the point where you are just baiting one another to get the last word in. Russell Cannings wrote: > Thank you for the measured response Jason, > > I think it sums up your arguments nicely. I'm sure many people are now reconsidering their backyard set-up. > > And now we move on. > > Russ Cannings > Burnaby, BC > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jason Rogers > Date: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:28 am > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > >> Jim, as Russ posed questions to me in public, I should answer >> them in public. Believe me, no one wants this thread to die more >> than I, as I do not have the time to be constantly checking this >> group for new attempts to undermine the importance of this issue. >> >> >> >> Russ, positive trends in feeder species alone are not >> necessarily indicative of the absence of an effect on those >> trends from limiting factors exacerbated by feeding. One needs >> to ask: What would the trends be in the absence of attractants? >> And people need to realize that in nature, survival, >> densification, and expansion are not necessarily beneficial. >> Often, an increase or change in one species comes at the expense >> of another or may trigger something entirely unexpected, such as >> the emergence of a disease (e.g., mycoplasmal conjunctivitis in >> passerines). Nature is not static, but when we know that we are >> responsible for changes, we have to take a hard look at the >> necessity of what we’re doing. >> >> >> >> Getting rid of attractants does not equate to turning one’s yard >> into a concrete pad. It just means--well--getting rid of >> attractants. There’s no reason why a yard can’t be a green space >> of native vegetation while avoiding or strategically locating >> things that are particularly attractive to birds. >> >> >> >> Rather than focusing on attacking one threat to birds because it >> is known or thought to be more of a problem, we should be making >> efforts to reduce all threats knowing that--as I’ve said before-- >> threats to birds are cumulative and synergistic. >> >> >> >> Intolerance is not always a bad thing. As for respect, while I >> don’t expect any from members of this group, people need to know >> that if they want mine, they’ll have to earn it. >> >> >> >> Jason Rogers >> >> Banff, AB >> hawkowl AT hotmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com >> From: butcher99 AT gmail.com >> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:08:42 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article >> >> >> >> >> >> This thread should be allowed to die a natural death. >> >> Russell Cannings wrote: >> > >> >> > *Note: Sorry to those who are just waiting for this >> thread to go away, >> >>> but here goes... >>> >> > >> > Hi Jason, >> > >> > I value your viewpoints and I'm glad that you have >> brought many new >> >>> studies to light. I am always happy to hear about new ideas >>> >> and am >> >>> certainly open to change. I personally do not feed birds but >>> >> would be >> >>> happy to pass on your message if I felt things were as dire as >>> >> you >> >>> make them out to be (in regards to the bird-feeding problem). >>> >> If you >> >>> wouldn't mind clarifying a few things, I would really >>> >> appreciate it---> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- >> family:Arial;padding:0 10px;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp hr >> {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp #ecxhd >> {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;} >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp #ecxads {margin-bottom:10px;} >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad {padding:0 0;} .ExternalClass >> #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad p {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad a >> {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp- >> sponsor #ecxygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp- >> sponsor #ecxygrp-lc #ecxhd {font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line- >> 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{font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font- >> weight:normal;} .ExternalClass .ecxgreen {color:#628c2a;} >> .ExternalClass .ecxMsoNormal {;} .ExternalClass ecxo {font- >> size:0;} .ExternalClass #ecxphotos div {float:left;width:72px;} >> .ExternalClass #ecxphotos div div {border:1px solid >> #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} .ExternalClass >> #ecxphotos div label {color:#666666;font- >> size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white- >> space:nowrap;width:64px;} .ExternalClass #ecxreco-category {font- >> size:77%;} .ExternalClass #ecxreco-desc {font-size:77%;} >> .ExternalClass .ecxreplbq {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg >> {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;} >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg table {font- >> size:inherit;font:100%;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg select, >> .ExternalClass input, .ExternalClass textarea {font:99% Arial, >> Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg >> pre, .ExternalClass code {font:115% monospace;} .ExternalClass >> #ecxygrp-mlmsg ecx* {line-height:1.22em;} .ExternalClass >> #ecxygrp-mlmsg #ecxlogo {padding-bottom:10px;} .ExternalClass >> #ecxygrp-mlmsg a {color:#1E66AE;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-msg p >> a {font-family:Verdana;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-msg ecxp#attach- >> count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} .ExternalClass >> #ecxygrp-reco #ecxreco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov li a {font-size:130%;text- >> decoration:none;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov li >> {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov ul {padding:0 0 0 8px;} >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;} >> .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-text p {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-text >> tt {font- >> size:120%;} >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> To contact the moderator email >> bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com >> Also, consider joining these groups. >> bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. >> If you have pictures to share try this group. >> http://groups-beta.google.com/ >> From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you >> can see the pictures. >> Subject: Hummingbird feeding in winter From: "marven007ca" <marven007ca AT yahoo.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 19:54:23 -0000 Hi Birders I wonder if the feeding of hummingbirds in winter is a good thing in the interior. Keeping these birds around until the temperature drops to some of the levels that you experience to me is a bit selfish. These birds will almost all perish or they have to move on wasting energy and fats that they ill can afford and perish heading south/west/down or which ever way they choose. I personally believe that you should not be putting out hummingbird feeders after a certain date so as not to keep these poor mites around. Having said this, as you know we have just gone through a bit of a setback in spring here on the island with cold for us temperatures and some of that white stuff and are our hummers suffering, well i don't think so. The males are chasing the girls around non stop, these poor females barely get to stop to feed before some amorous male is after her. It won't be long before they are sitting on eggs and feeding young, but this is the island and we have lots of other food to support them, with flowers blooming, insects and even some sap to help them survive this perishing cold -5 weather. This is a long way different to you people in the interior who suffer far greater temperatures and the lack of any other food source. So keep your feeders indoors until the spring brings the other flying buzz bombs to your sunny interior as I don't think it is fair to keep the Annas around for your own enjoyment and almost certainly condemning them to death. Derrick Marven A proud bird feeder in North Cowichan, BC ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Re: Bird feeding article From: Russell Cannings <russellcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:52:18 -0800 Thank you for the measured response Jason, I think it sums up your arguments nicely. I'm sure many people are now reconsidering their backyard set-up. And now we move on. Russ Cannings Burnaby, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason Rogers Date: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:28 am Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Jim, as Russ posed questions to me in public, I should answer > them in public. Believe me, no one wants this thread to die more > than I, as I do not have the time to be constantly checking this > group for new attempts to undermine the importance of this issue. > >   > > Russ, positive trends in feeder species alone are not > necessarily indicative of the absence of an effect on those > trends from limiting factors exacerbated by feeding. One needs > to ask: What would the trends be in the absence of attractants? > And people need to realize that in nature, survival, > densification, and expansion are not necessarily beneficial. > Often, an increase or change in one species comes at the expense > of another or may trigger something entirely unexpected, such as > the emergence of a disease (e.g., mycoplasmal conjunctivitis in > passerines). Nature is not static, but when we know that we are > responsible for changes, we have to take a hard look at the > necessity of what we’re doing. > >   > > Getting rid of attractants does not equate to turning one’s yard > into a concrete pad. It just means--well--getting rid of > attractants. There’s no reason why a yard can’t be a green space > of native vegetation while avoiding or strategically locating > things that are particularly attractive to birds. > >   > > Rather than focusing on attacking one threat to birds because it > is known or thought to be more of a problem, we should be making > efforts to reduce all threats knowing that--as I’ve said before-- > threats to birds are cumulative and synergistic. > >   > > Intolerance is not always a bad thing. As for respect, while I > don’t expect any from members of this group, people need to know > that if they want mine, they’ll have to earn it. > >   > > Jason Rogers > > Banff, AB > hawkowl AT hotmail.com > >   > > > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > From: butcher99 AT gmail.com > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:08:42 -0800 > Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article > >   > > > > This thread should be allowed to die a natural death. >   > Russell Cannings wrote: >  > > > >  > *Note: Sorry to those who are just waiting for this > thread to go away, > > but here goes... >  > >  > Hi Jason, >  > >  > I value your viewpoints and I'm glad that you have > brought many new > > studies to light. I am always happy to hear about new ideas > and am > > certainly open to change. I personally do not feed birds but > would be > > happy to pass on your message if I felt things were as dire as > you > > make them out to be (in regards to the bird-feeding problem). > If you > > wouldn't mind clarifying a few things, I would really > appreciate it---> >  > >  > >  > >  > > > > >  .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- > family:Arial;padding:0 10px;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp hr > {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp #ecxhd > {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;} > .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp #ecxads {margin-bottom:10px;} > .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad {padding:0 0;} .ExternalClass > #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad p {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad a > {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp- > sponsor #ecxygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp- > sponsor #ecxygrp-lc #ecxhd {font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line- > height:122%;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor 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.ExternalClass > #ecxygrp-mlmsg #ecxlogo {padding-bottom:10px;} .ExternalClass > #ecxygrp-mlmsg a {color:#1E66AE;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-msg p > a {font-family:Verdana;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-msg ecxp#attach- > count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} .ExternalClass > #ecxygrp-reco #ecxreco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} > .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} > .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov li a {font-size:130%;text- > decoration:none;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov li > {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} > .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov ul {padding:0 0 0 8px;} > .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;} > .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-text p {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-text > tt {font- > size:120%;}                                               > > ------------------------------------ > > To contact the moderator email > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > Also, consider joining these groups. > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com  an all BC group. > If you have pictures to share try this group.  > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you > can see the pictures. > Subject: RE: Re: Bird feeding article From: Jason Rogers <hawkowl AT hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 19:28:54 +0000 Jim, as Russ posed questions to me in public, I should answer them in public. Believe me, no one wants this thread to die more than I, as I do not have the time to be constantly checking this group for new attempts to undermine the importance of this issue. Russ, positive trends in feeder species alone are not necessarily indicative of the absence of an effect on those trends from limiting factors exacerbated by feeding. One needs to ask: What would the trends be in the absence of attractants? And people need to realize that in nature, survival, densification, and expansion are not necessarily beneficial. Often, an increase or change in one species comes at the expense of another or may trigger something entirely unexpected, such as the emergence of a disease (e.g., mycoplasmal conjunctivitis in passerines). Nature is not static, but when we know that we are responsible for changes, we have to take a hard look at the necessity of what we’re doing. Getting rid of attractants does not equate to turning one’s yard into a concrete pad. It just means--well--getting rid of attractants. There’s no reason why a yard can’t be a green space of native vegetation while avoiding or strategically locating things that are particularly attractive to birds. Rather than focusing on attacking one threat to birds because it is known or thought to be more of a problem, we should be making efforts to reduce all threats knowing that--as I’ve said before--threats to birds are cumulative and synergistic. Intolerance is not always a bad thing. As for respect, while I don’t expect any from members of this group, people need to know that if they want mine, they’ll have to earn it. Jason Rogers Banff, AB hawkowl AT hotmail.com To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com From: butcher99 AT gmail.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:08:42 -0800 Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article This thread should be allowed to die a natural death. Russell Cannings wrote: > > > *Note: Sorry to those who are just waiting for this thread to go away, > but here goes... > > Hi Jason, > > I value your viewpoints and I'm glad that you have brought many new > studies to light. I am always happy to hear about new ideas and am > certainly open to change. I personally do not feed birds but would be > happy to pass on your message if I felt things were as dire as you > make them out to be (in regards to the bird-feeding problem). If you > wouldn't mind clarifying a few things, I would really appreciate it---> > > > > .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;padding:0 10px;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp #ecxhd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp #ecxads {margin-bottom:10px;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad {padding:0 0;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad p {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mkp .ecxad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxygrp-lc #ecxhd {font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxygrp-lc .ecxad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} .ExternalClass a {color:#1e66ae;} .ExternalClass #ecxactions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} .ExternalClass #ecxactivity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} .ExternalClass #ecxactivity span {font-weight:700;} .ExternalClass #ecxactivity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass #ecxactivity span span {color:#ff7900;} .ExternalClass #ecxactivity span .ecxunderline {text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass .ecxattach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} .ExternalClass .ecxattach div a {text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass .ecxattach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;} .ExternalClass .ecxattach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} .ExternalClass .ecxattach label a {text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass blockquote {;} .ExternalClass .ecxbold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} .ExternalClass .ecxbold a {text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass dd.ecxlast p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} .ExternalClass dd.ecxlast p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} .ExternalClass dd.ecxlast p span.ecxyshortcuts {margin-right:0;} .ExternalClass div.ecxattach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass div.ecxattach-table {width:400px;} .ExternalClass div.ecxfile-title a, .ExternalClass div.ecxfile-title a:active, .ExternalClass div.ecxfile-title a:hover, .ExternalClass div.ecxfile-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass div.ecxphoto-title a, .ExternalClass div.ecxphoto-title a:active, .ExternalClass div.ecxphoto-title a:hover, .ExternalClass div.ecxphoto-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass ecxdiv#ygrp-mlmsg #ecxygrp-msg p a span.ecxyshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} .ExternalClass .ecxgreen {color:#628c2a;} .ExternalClass .ecxMsoNormal {;} .ExternalClass ecxo {font-size:0;} .ExternalClass #ecxphotos div {float:left;width:72px;} .ExternalClass #ecxphotos div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} .ExternalClass #ecxphotos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} .ExternalClass #ecxreco-category {font-size:77%;} .ExternalClass #ecxreco-desc {font-size:77%;} .ExternalClass .ecxreplbq {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg select, .ExternalClass input, .ExternalClass textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg pre, .ExternalClass code {font:115% monospace;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg ecx* {line-height:1.22em;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg #ecxlogo {padding-bottom:10px;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-mlmsg a {color:#1E66AE;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-msg ecxp#attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-reco #ecxreco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-sponsor #ecxov ul {padding:0 0 0 8px;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-text p {;} .ExternalClass #ecxygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;} ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Re: Bird feeding article From: Jim Mitchell <butcher99 AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:08:42 -0800 This thread should be allowed to die a natural death. Russell Cannings wrote: > > > *Note: Sorry to those who are just waiting for this thread to go away, > but here goes... > > Hi Jason, > > I value your viewpoints and I'm glad that you have brought many new > studies to light. I am always happy to hear about new ideas and am > certainly open to change. I personally do not feed birds but would be > happy to pass on your message if I felt things were as dire as you > make them out to be (in regards to the bird-feeding problem). If you > wouldn't mind clarifying a few things, I would really appreciate it---> > > > > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Landscaping and Biodiversity From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 00:42:29 -0800 Education and constructive feedback - looks as if it worked for you, albeit with a somewhat protracted implementation of the solution. Sometimes we need confrontation. Successful campaigns are all in the art of knowing the right technique at the right time. Attracting some wildlife into the heart of urban areas is not always wise in my view. Bears, cougars and coyotes could be quite problematic in the wrong areas and the losers are usually wildlife. Enlightened implementation and dialogue with knowledgeable people is critical. Give your little charges a seed for me and grab some pillow time. I just came off of the treadmill and am now frightfully awake. Bad decision. Rick Howie From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carol Sent: January-19-12 11:58 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Landscaping and Biodiversity Hi Rick , Another huge plus for natural native planting is the lack of water and maintenance needed to have a "green" yard. It can reduce lawn grass and all the bad footprints such as fertilizer, gas exhaust (which is++10-100 times more polluting than car exhaust) etc. etc, etc no time to go into detail on this subject..... Beaks took on the city of Trail regarding their poisoning of critters in the cemetery and area. Unknown to BEAKS, the secondary results of the poisons was killing the adult raptors and then we would get the starving babies. For 5 years we had no answer as to why this was the only area that we would get 3-5 babies per season. Once someone reported the poisoning to us, we knew we had solved the mystery. They are not using poisons now!. They are controlling the area with natural planting.plants and roots that the critters hate. This is another subject to get into. It is so interesting and it works. Carol From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Rick Howie Sent: January-19-12 11:33 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Landscaping and Biodiversity I read with interest Laure's comments about diversifying her yard vegetation with native plantings and it reminded me that there are lots of books on the subject including one by Eva Durance from the South Okanagan. While some may question anything to do with attracting wildlife to our urban lots, the context for the issue of urbanization and the reduction of biodiversity is an interesting one that seeks solutions to regain this diversity in a meaningful way. I have uploaded a paper to the files section by McKinney. He discusses the urbanization gradient and the impacts on biodiversity and opportunities to deal with the complex issues. I have just skim read it for now, so can't comment on it beyond the note that it is a scholarly look at this complex question and was published in Bioscience . It may provide people with ideas about their own approaches to living with nature. But realize that it is not a handbook on how to landscape your lot. It is much more broad based in looking at the general effects of urbanization and how these effects might be mitigated with broad strategies to benefit conservation. In general, the more urbanized the area, the more restoration of natural habitats is suggested as opposed to acquiring and maintaining valuable habitats on the urban fringe or in the rural areas. It is only about 6 pages long and does not have any mind-numbing statistics so I liked it right away. And like much of the vast literature on this topic, it is not new. The paper was written 10 years ago but still has validity today as urbanization has not diminished. The paper is based upon USA data but I suspect much of it would apply to Canada as well. If your head is into this stuff in any way, I think you will find it of interest. I confess that the article does not deal with the activity of "birding" per sae. But like so many of these discussions, such articles provide valuable context within which we conduct our lives. With respect to commentary about details in this paper or any sources that are provided, it might prove valuable for those interested to read the papers, digest them critically and arrive at whatever conclusions you wish. In this way, we can share information without diverging on paths of analysis and debate over the efficacy of the references, most of which we cannot verify anyway. Our group need not operate like a debating club where each speaker attempts to gain supremacy over all by seeking approval of their viewpoint. Personally, I have no vested interest in any of the references that I may provide. If someone points out a valid flaw in any of them, you won't get an argument so much as it will help me seek new information that deals with the inadequacies of the original. This is a very helpful way to learn. Following the raising of topics like window strikes, bird feeding, landscaping for birds etc, I have spent a bit of time researching these topics. The free literature available on the internet is quite voluminous for all of them from all over the world. If you are willing to pay for some of the journal articles, you can get even more science on the many facets of each question. Science articles that require payment are seldom cheap and one could enjoy a very good bottle of wine for most of them. Hence, my wine cellar has more bottles than does my filing cabinet of expensive journal articles. Rick Howie RP Bio Aspen Park Consulting ph - 250-578-7542 cell - 250-371-2551 fax - 250-578-7543 e-mail - r.howie AT shaw.ca From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Laure Neish Sent: January-19-12 12:45 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article I read Jason's article. Title- "Birdfeeding: Another Viewpoint" Last sentence- "Given the myriad of variables involved, the true environmental impact of mass birdfeeding may never be fully understood." I agree with both. There was nothing I wasn't already aware of in his article which sums up nicely many of the threats. A bit disappointing was that many of the concerns seemed more geared to eastern birds and worries about hot chili peppers in suet (to keep squirrels away) and birds freezing eyeballs to feeder ports seemed too remote to hook me on that discussion. I will not be giving up bird feeding. I do what I can to keep threats such as cats, spread of disease and aflatoxin at bay but I do not put out feeders under the questioned notion that I am helping "my feathered friends". I am doing it for purely selfish interests. There, I said it.... Besides feeders I also have slowly changed our yard to native plantings, which has attracted an interesting assortment of birds in all seasons. In an effort to reduce my carbon footprint, I have tried to bring birds to my yard so that I can enjoy them and photograph them here, in my driveway, in my car... my outdoor office. Getting a lovely closeup of a Common Redpoll such as yesterday's : http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h247f4550#h247f4550 brings me a lot of joy and occasionally a few dollars in sales. I have had a Varied Thrush coming to eat crumbled bits of suet in this cold snowy weather. It has been taking refuge in our small yard for a month now. I have been reticent to comment or post a photo because of the "tsk, tsk" peer pressure judgment committee, perhaps its only a committee of a passionate one but there may be more. We all enjoy birds in our own way, as a nature interpreter for many years I have done my part to educate and enthuse young people in an effort to inspire the next generation of naturalists and conservationists. You can give up on me Jason. I'll give up on bird-feeding when I'm ready. > Laure Wilson Neish > > B.A., B.Ed., MSc. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: RE: Re: Bird feeding article From: Russell Cannings <russellcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 00:32:08 -0800 *Note: Sorry to those who are just waiting for this thread to go away, but here goes... Hi Jason, I value your viewpoints and I'm glad that you have brought many new studies to light. I am always happy to hear about new ideas and am certainly open to change. I personally do not feed birds but would be happy to pass on your message if I felt things were as dire as you make them out to be (in regards to the bird-feeding problem). If you wouldn't mind clarifying a few things, I would really appreciate it---> You have spoken many times about all of the birds that are killed by bird-feeders. From reading your article, I gather that this "killing" results from a combination of things--drawing birds into yards where they may strike windows, get eaten by cats, disease-issues, or getting habituated to artificial food then later parishing when the food is no longer available. So why then are the majority of these "feeder birds" increasing in population/expanding their breeding/wintering ranges (e.g. Anna's Hummingbird, all 3 American goldfinch sp., House Finch, Northern Cardinal etc)? It would seem that feeders are benefiting the species that mostly use them?  Additionally, there are lost birds (e.g. Clay-coloured Sparrow) that show up in winter in BC, and would not otherwise survive if it weren't for a bird feeder. I would understand if you wanted to point out that this survival is unnatural, but it is an example of an individual bird clearly benefiting from the existence of a feeder.   From what I can tell, it is the migratory insectivores that are declining much more dramatically. Cats and windows are certainly a huge problem but habitat loss is no doubt the worst factor of all. You have suggested several times, that we should make every effort to remove all bird attractants on our properties--I'm sorry but this seems extremely counter-intuitive.  By turning our yards into concrete pads, we may be able to cut-down on window-strikes and cat-kills, but we will also be making it VERY hard on migratory and resident birds that rely on any shred of habitat that is left for ground-feeding, tree-gleaning, and so on. So what exactly is your solution? You have some great points to make, and it's always refreshing to hear new opinions that relate to activities we all know so well. I'm sure most of the members of this group have changed their lifestyles in some way over the last 10-20 years to start doing their part in combating climate changes, habitat loss, and declining bird populations (just to name a few). Regarding my comments about feederwatchers being future conservationists, I think you're being a little harsh. My main point is that you need to look at the bigger picture. There may come a day when feeders become a thing of the past, but even you have to admit that this reality is a long way off. The threat of urbanization, intensive agriculture, mineral extraction, and polluted waterways is so much more of a pressing issue, that any conservation organisation (be they big or small) cannot possibly spend their valuable time and effort to discourage amateur bird-lovers from attracting a gang of juncos into their yard. There are others on this forum who have spent just as much time or more than you, dealing with modern conservation-issues and bird ecology, and still there are two sides to the debate. As I have said, opposing viewpoints should be respected. This goes for you as well as me. What I don't appreciate is your apparent intolerance for opposition. Using terms like "a fairy tale" and comparing bird-feeding to cigarette-smoking belittles those who do not agree with you. If you want respect-- show some yourself. Your own personal research in this topic may very well be a source for positive change in the future, but you need to realize that there are other qualified viewpoints out there too--and they're not all backed by the evil bird-seed corporations. All the best, Russ Cannings Burnaby, BC p.s. This will be my last post on this topic-- promise! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason Rogers Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:14 pm Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Ah Russ, if only the fairy tale that substantial numbers of > people are recruited into the conservation world through bird > feeding were actually true. Alas a membership card and a bag of > seed do not a conservationist make. I sometimes wonder just how > many birds RSPB members end up saving with their purchases after > factoring in all of the ones they kill with their feeders. I > liken the RSPB funding conservation through the sale of seed to > the Cancer Society funding education through the sale of cigarettes. > >   > > Note that I have not been initiating these threads. I've been > challenging statements within them. If people don't want their > statements challenged, perhaps they shouldn't make them. And > contrary to what some in this group might think, a challenge > need not be regarded as bullying, know-it-allism, evangelism, or > arrogance. >   > > For those who would prefer to reside in an echo chamber, might I > suggest creating a new group and admitting only those who agree > with you? If that's too much to ask, I suppose one could always > read the subject line and hit the delete button. > > Jason Rogers > > Banff, AB > hawkowl AT hotmail.com > >   > > > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > From: russellcannings AT shaw.ca > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:24:37 -0800 > Subject: Re: RE: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article > >   > > > > Jason, >   > Organisations like the RSPB do not discourage bird-feeding for 2 > simple reasons: >   > 1) It is one of the greatest means of recruitment into the > birding/conservation world >   > 2) They have much bigger fish to fry... like habitat > conservation for instance. >   > Jason, I admire the time and effort you put into public > education-- but as many have stated, the members of this group > are now well aware of the different viewpoints on this issue and > will now make their own decisions. Just be wary that with an > arrogant tone like this, you run the risk of alienating yourself > and the ideals you promote. > > And for those exchanging quick one-liners back and forth, please > do so in private (for the sake of my already bloated inbox at least). >   > Warm regards from a chilly office in Burnaby, BC >   > Russ Cannings > >                                                 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Landscaping and Biodiversity From: "Carol" <ctaffy2 AT shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 23:58:28 -0800 Hi Rick , Another huge plus for natural native planting is the lack of water and maintenance needed to have a "green" yard. It can reduce lawn grass and all the bad footprints such as fertilizer, gas exhaust (which is++10-100 times more polluting than car exhaust) etc. etc, etc no time to go into detail on this subject..... Beaks took on the city of Trail regarding their poisoning of critters in the cemetery and area. Unknown to BEAKS, the secondary results of the poisons was killing the adult raptors and then we would get the starving babies. For 5 years we had no answer as to why this was the only area that we would get 3-5 babies per season. Once someone reported the poisoning to us, we knew we had solved the mystery. They are not using poisons now!. They are controlling the area with natural planting.plants and roots that the critters hate. This is another subject to get into. It is so interesting and it works. Carol From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Howie Sent: January-19-12 11:33 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Landscaping and Biodiversity I read with interest Laure's comments about diversifying her yard vegetation with native plantings and it reminded me that there are lots of books on the subject including one by Eva Durance from the South Okanagan. While some may question anything to do with attracting wildlife to our urban lots, the context for the issue of urbanization and the reduction of biodiversity is an interesting one that seeks solutions to regain this diversity in a meaningful way. I have uploaded a paper to the files section by McKinney. He discusses the urbanization gradient and the impacts on biodiversity and opportunities to deal with the complex issues. I have just skim read it for now, so can't comment on it beyond the note that it is a scholarly look at this complex question and was published in Bioscience . It may provide people with ideas about their own approaches to living with nature. But realize that it is not a handbook on how to landscape your lot. It is much more broad based in looking at the general effects of urbanization and how these effects might be mitigated with broad strategies to benefit conservation. In general, the more urbanized the area, the more restoration of natural habitats is suggested as opposed to acquiring and maintaining valuable habitats on the urban fringe or in the rural areas. It is only about 6 pages long and does not have any mind-numbing statistics so I liked it right away. And like much of the vast literature on this topic, it is not new. The paper was written 10 years ago but still has validity today as urbanization has not diminished. The paper is based upon USA data but I suspect much of it would apply to Canada as well. If your head is into this stuff in any way, I think you will find it of interest. I confess that the article does not deal with the activity of "birding" per sae. But like so many of these discussions, such articles provide valuable context within which we conduct our lives. With respect to commentary about details in this paper or any sources that are provided, it might prove valuable for those interested to read the papers, digest them critically and arrive at whatever conclusions you wish. In this way, we can share information without diverging on paths of analysis and debate over the efficacy of the references, most of which we cannot verify anyway. Our group need not operate like a debating club where each speaker attempts to gain supremacy over all by seeking approval of their viewpoint. Personally, I have no vested interest in any of the references that I may provide. If someone points out a valid flaw in any of them, you won't get an argument so much as it will help me seek new information that deals with the inadequacies of the original. This is a very helpful way to learn. Following the raising of topics like window strikes, bird feeding, landscaping for birds etc, I have spent a bit of time researching these topics. The free literature available on the internet is quite voluminous for all of them from all over the world. If you are willing to pay for some of the journal articles, you can get even more science on the many facets of each question. Science articles that require payment are seldom cheap and one could enjoy a very good bottle of wine for most of them. Hence, my wine cellar has more bottles than does my filing cabinet of expensive journal articles. Rick Howie RP Bio Aspen Park Consulting ph - 250-578-7542 cell - 250-371-2551 fax - 250-578-7543 e-mail - r.howie AT shaw.ca From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Laure Neish Sent: January-19-12 12:45 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article I read Jason's article. Title- "Birdfeeding: Another Viewpoint" Last sentence- "Given the myriad of variables involved, the true environmental impact of mass birdfeeding may never be fully understood." I agree with both. There was nothing I wasn't already aware of in his article which sums up nicely many of the threats. A bit disappointing was that many of the concerns seemed more geared to eastern birds and worries about hot chili peppers in suet (to keep squirrels away) and birds freezing eyeballs to feeder ports seemed too remote to hook me on that discussion. I will not be giving up bird feeding. I do what I can to keep threats such as cats, spread of disease and aflatoxin at bay but I do not put out feeders under the questioned notion that I am helping "my feathered friends". I am doing it for purely selfish interests. There, I said it.... Besides feeders I also have slowly changed our yard to native plantings, which has attracted an interesting assortment of birds in all seasons. In an effort to reduce my carbon footprint, I have tried to bring birds to my yard so that I can enjoy them and photograph them here, in my driveway, in my car... my outdoor office. Getting a lovely closeup of a Common Redpoll such as yesterday's : http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h247f4550#h247f4550 brings me a lot of joy and occasionally a few dollars in sales. I have had a Varied Thrush coming to eat crumbled bits of suet in this cold snowy weather. It has been taking refuge in our small yard for a month now. I have been reticent to comment or post a photo because of the "tsk, tsk" peer pressure judgment committee, perhaps its only a committee of a passionate one but there may be more. We all enjoy birds in our own way, as a nature interpreter for many years I have done my part to educate and enthuse young people in an effort to inspire the next generation of naturalists and conservationists. You can give up on me Jason. I'll give up on bird-feeding when I'm ready. > Laure Wilson Neish > > B.A., B.Ed., MSc. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Landscaping and Biodiversity From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 23:32:37 -0800 I read with interest Laure's comments about diversifying her yard vegetation with native plantings and it reminded me that there are lots of books on the subject including one by Eva Durance from the South Okanagan. While some may question anything to do with attracting wildlife to our urban lots, the context for the issue of urbanization and the reduction of biodiversity is an interesting one that seeks solutions to regain this diversity in a meaningful way. I have uploaded a paper to the files section by McKinney. He discusses the urbanization gradient and the impacts on biodiversity and opportunities to deal with the complex issues. I have just skim read it for now, so can't comment on it beyond the note that it is a scholarly look at this complex question and was published in Bioscience . It may provide people with ideas about their own approaches to living with nature. But realize that it is not a handbook on how to landscape your lot. It is much more broad based in looking at the general effects of urbanization and how these effects might be mitigated with broad strategies to benefit conservation. In general, the more urbanized the area, the more restoration of natural habitats is suggested as opposed to acquiring and maintaining valuable habitats on the urban fringe or in the rural areas. It is only about 6 pages long and does not have any mind-numbing statistics so I liked it right away. And like much of the vast literature on this topic, it is not new. The paper was written 10 years ago but still has validity today as urbanization has not diminished. The paper is based upon USA data but I suspect much of it would apply to Canada as well. If your head is into this stuff in any way, I think you will find it of interest. I confess that the article does not deal with the activity of "birding" per sae. But like so many of these discussions, such articles provide valuable context within which we conduct our lives. With respect to commentary about details in this paper or any sources that are provided, it might prove valuable for those interested to read the papers, digest them critically and arrive at whatever conclusions you wish. In this way, we can share information without diverging on paths of analysis and debate over the efficacy of the references, most of which we cannot verify anyway. Our group need not operate like a debating club where each speaker attempts to gain supremacy over all by seeking approval of their viewpoint. Personally, I have no vested interest in any of the references that I may provide. If someone points out a valid flaw in any of them, you won't get an argument so much as it will help me seek new information that deals with the inadequacies of the original. This is a very helpful way to learn. Following the raising of topics like window strikes, bird feeding, landscaping for birds etc, I have spent a bit of time researching these topics. The free literature available on the internet is quite voluminous for all of them from all over the world. If you are willing to pay for some of the journal articles, you can get even more science on the many facets of each question. Science articles that require payment are seldom cheap and one could enjoy a very good bottle of wine for most of them. Hence, my wine cellar has more bottles than does my filing cabinet of expensive journal articles. Rick Howie RP Bio Aspen Park Consulting ph - 250-578-7542 cell - 250-371-2551 fax - 250-578-7543 e-mail - r.howie AT shaw.ca From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laure Neish Sent: January-19-12 12:45 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article I read Jason's article. Title- "Birdfeeding: Another Viewpoint" Last sentence- "Given the myriad of variables involved, the true environmental impact of mass birdfeeding may never be fully understood." I agree with both. There was nothing I wasn't already aware of in his article which sums up nicely many of the threats. A bit disappointing was that many of the concerns seemed more geared to eastern birds and worries about hot chili peppers in suet (to keep squirrels away) and birds freezing eyeballs to feeder ports seemed too remote to hook me on that discussion. I will not be giving up bird feeding. I do what I can to keep threats such as cats, spread of disease and aflatoxin at bay but I do not put out feeders under the questioned notion that I am helping "my feathered friends". I am doing it for purely selfish interests. There, I said it.... Besides feeders I also have slowly changed our yard to native plantings, which has attracted an interesting assortment of birds in all seasons. In an effort to reduce my carbon footprint, I have tried to bring birds to my yard so that I can enjoy them and photograph them here, in my driveway, in my car... my outdoor office. Getting a lovely closeup of a Common Redpoll such as yesterday's : http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h247f4550#h247f4550 brings me a lot of joy and occasionally a few dollars in sales. I have had a Varied Thrush coming to eat crumbled bits of suet in this cold snowy weather. It has been taking refuge in our small yard for a month now. I have been reticent to comment or post a photo because of the "tsk, tsk" peer pressure judgment committee, perhaps its only a committee of a passionate one but there may be more. We all enjoy birds in our own way, as a nature interpreter for many years I have done my part to educate and enthuse young people in an effort to inspire the next generation of naturalists and conservationists. You can give up on me Jason. I'll give up on bird-feeding when I'm ready. > Laure Wilson Neish > > B.A., B.Ed., MSc. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Bird feeding article From: "mcbirder" <jarofme AT hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:19:40 -0000 Jason, I could come up with an easier solution that would suit most of us just fine, but that would mean you'd have to seek out a new group to start your crusade. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, so just carry on here and spare the others. Jeremy Gatten Saanichton, B.C. --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Jason Rogers wrote: > For those who would prefer to reside in an echo chamber, might I suggest creating a new group and admitting only those who agree with you? If that's too much to ask, I suppose one could always read the subject line and hit the delete button. > > Jason Rogers > > Banff, AB > hawkowl AT ... > > > > > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > From: russellcannings AT ... > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:24:37 -0800 > Subject: Re: RE: [bcintbird] Re: Bird feeding article > > > > > > Jason, > > Organisations like the RSPB do not discourage bird-feeding for 2 simple reasons: > > 1) It is one of the greatest means of recruitment into the birding/conservation world > > 2) They have much bigger fish to fry... like habitat conservation for instance. > > Jason, I admire the time and effort you put into public education-- but as many have stated, the members of this group are now well aware of the different viewpoints on this issue and will now make their own decisions. Just be wary that with an arrogant tone like this, you run the risk of alienating yourself and the ideals you promote. > > And for those exchanging quick one-liners back and forth, please do so in private (for the sake of my already bloated inbox at least). > > Warm regards from a chilly office in Burnaby, BC > > Russ Cannings > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures.