Birdingonthe.Net Recent Postings from BirdChat > Home > Mail > Alerts Updated on Friday, February 3 at 09:41 PM EST The most recently received Mail is at the top.	Golden-billed Saltator,©Dan Lane

3 Feb Re: Swimming Cooper's Hawk [] 3 Feb Re: Swimming Cooper's Hawk. [Roger ] 3 Feb Re: Swimming Cooper's Hawk. [Jules Levin ] 3 Feb Re: Swimming Cooper's Hawk. [Mark Cranford ] 3 Feb Re: Swimming Cooper's Hawk. ["Tangren, Gerald Vernon" ] 3 Feb Swimming Cooper's Hawk. [] 3 Feb Re: Researchers say Ivory-bill is extinct ["J. Padilla" ] 2 Feb Groundhog Day and birds - a memory ["B.G. Sloan" ] 2 Feb 9 Whooping Cranes will be released on Alabama refuge [Matt Mendenhall ] 2 Feb Re: Misidentifications - guess what is was [Colin Talcroft ] 2 Feb Misidentifications - guess what is was ["gljeinwv AT juno.com" ] 2 Feb Researchers say Ivory-bill is extinct [Matt Mendenhall ] 2 Feb Re: Misidentification [Douglas Carver ] 2 Feb Re: Misidentification [Roger ] 2 Feb Re: Misidentification [Mary Beth Stowe ] 2 Feb Re: Misidentification [John van der Woude ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification ["Barry K. MacKay" ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification [Douglas Carver ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification [Ronald Orenstein ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification [Hilary Powers ] 1 Feb Re: Winter finches defy prognosticators ["Barry K. MacKay" ] 1 Feb Re: Winter finches defy prognosticators [Chuck Otte ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification [Bill Porteous ] 1 Feb Re: Winter finches defy prognosticators [Denise Hughes ] 1 Feb Re: Winter finches defy prognosticators ["Tangren, Gerald Vernon" ] 1 Feb Re: Winter finches defy prognosticators [Denise Hughes ] 1 Feb Winter finches defy prognosticators ["B.G. Sloan" ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification ["Tangren, Gerald Vernon" ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification [Larry Gardella ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification ["Gorton, Gregg" ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification [Laura Erickson ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification [Jerry Friedman ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification ["Gorton, Gregg" ] 1 Feb Paul Lehman interview (and other content) in the January 2012 issue of Birding [Ted Floyd ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification ["Tangren, Gerald Vernon" ] 1 Feb Re: Misidentification [John van der Woude ] 31 Jan Re: Misidentification [Larry Gardella ] 31 Jan Re: Misidentification [Thomas and Sheri Roberts ] 31 Jan Bird guide for Sundarbans, India [Bob Keener ] 31 Jan Re: Misidentification [Douglas Carver ] 31 Jan Re: Irruption question ["Barry K. MacKay" ] 31 Jan Re: Misidentification [Roger ] 31 Jan Re: Irruption question ["Nancy L. Newfield" ] 31 Jan Irruption question [Pat Burden ] 31 Jan Re: Misidentification [Laura Erickson ] 31 Jan Re: Misidentification ["Tangren, Gerald Vernon" ] 31 Jan Fwd: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification [] 31 Jan Re: Misidentification [Eric Jeffrey ] 31 Jan Re: Misidentification [Katrina Knight ] 31 Jan Re: Misidentification ["John J. Collins" ] 31 Jan Misidentification [Al Schirmacher ] 30 Jan Lark Bunting at Bolsa Chica Interpretive Center Huntington Beach, CA [john small ] 30 Jan Re: Hotel/Birding in Singapore [David Starrett ] 31 Jan Re: Hotel/Birding in Singapore [ ] 30 Jan Hotel/Birding in Singapore [Balestri Marcia ] 30 Jan Whoopers at Aransas [Judy Bass ] 30 Jan gallinaceous bird trips soon approaching [Rebecca Kosten ] 30 Jan Howell: Petrels [Rick Wright ] 30 Jan Bird books [Douglas Carver ] 28 Jan BirdNote - last week, and the week of Jan. 29, 2012 [Ellen Blackstone ] 27 Jan Re: RFI: Switzerland - Alpine Accentor, Aletsch Glacier/Forest - Bearded Reedling [Larry Gardella ] 27 Jan RFI: Switzerland - Alpine Accentor, Aletsch Glacier/Forest - Bearded Reedling [Tom Arny ] 27 Jan Birds of Prey on new US postal stamp [Patricia Rossi ] 26 Jan Re: ABA breeding bird list [Wayne Weber ] 26 Jan Recently at North American Birding [Greg Neise ] 26 Jan Dunlap: In the Field, Among the Feathered [Rick Wright ] 26 Jan Re: Balkins [John van der Woude ] 26 Jan Re: RFI Santiago, Chile [Linda Lee Baker ] 26 Jan Re: Balkins [robert agajeenian ] 25 Jan Re: Balkins [Eric Jeffrey ] 25 Jan Hilton Pond 01/17/12 (Bathroom Bat) ["Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" ] 25 Jan Balkins [Katharine Mills ] 25 Jan RFI Santiago, Chile ["David M. Gascoigne" ] 25 Jan Chicago Snowy Owl rehab TV news report ["B.G. Sloan" ] 25 Jan ABA breeding bird list [Richard Tkachuck ] 24 Jan Dead bird ID challenge - follow-up ["B.G. Sloan" ] Subject: Re: Swimming Cooper's Hawk From: birding AT AOL.COM Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 21:31:50 -0500 Chatters, Thanks for the interesting responses to this posting. I guess the aspect of this birding event that impressed me most was the flapping or rowing (like a butterfly stroke) that the hawk used to laboriously propel itself toward shore.....definitely not a medal-winning performance (unless perseverance were the measure). Ernie Jardine Pickering Ontario birding AT aol.com www.birdsongidentification.com BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Swimming Cooper's Hawk. From: Roger <r_craik AT SHAW.CA> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 16:29:10 -0800 Watched a Bald Eagle take about 20 min. to bring a large salmon ashore. Just before it reached dry land a seal popped up behind it. Fortunately the seal was more curious than hungry as the the Eagle made it to shore and promptly was joined by it's mate to share the catch. Roger Craik Maple Ridge BC On 03/02/2012 1:45 PM, birding AT AOL.COM wrote: > Chatters, > > In an inlet of Whitby harbour (just east of Toronto), where Trumpeter Swans are in danger of being run over as they converge on approaching cars for handouts, I recently saw a very unusual sight (for me). I did not witness the attack, but I saw a female Cooper's Hawk finishing off a Ring-billed Gull by holding its head down in the water. When the struggle was over, the Cooper's started "rowing" with its wings toward the shore, not without difficulty, as it clutched the gull, pulling it through the water. > > As it finally approached the shore, it seemed to be flagging, since it left the gull floating in the water and dragged itself out, onto the bank, and up onto a low branch of a bush to gather itself. It moved position after a while, walking to another spot, and lifting itself to perch. I've never seen or even thought of a hawk swimming (winging its way through the water), but this one surely did. I wouldn't have thought a Cooper's would attack a gull either, and I began to second-guess myself, when I noticed later, at home, that immature Harriers have a red wash on the breast, something I wasn't familiar with. However, this one showed no white on the rump, and others who witnessed this called it a female Cooper's also. The bird was seen at some distance. I'm curious to know if anyone has witnessed a similar behaviour, or heard of something similar? > > Ernie Jardine > Pickering Ontario > > birding AT aol.com > > www.birdsongidentification.com > > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Swimming Cooper's Hawk. From: Jules Levin <ameliede AT EARTHLINK.NET> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 16:12:00 -0800 > On 03/02/2012 4:45 PM, birding AT AOL.COM wrote: >> Chatters, >> >> In an inlet of Whitby harbour (just east of Toronto), where Trumpeter >> Swans are in danger of being run over as they converge on approaching >> cars for handouts, I recently saw a very unusual sight (for me). I >> did not witness the attack, but I saw a female Cooper's Hawk >> finishing off a Ring-billed Gull by holding its head down in the >> water. When the struggle was over, the Cooper's started "rowing" with >> its wings toward the shore, not without difficulty, as it clutched >> the gull, pulling it through the water. >> >> As it finally approached the shore, it seemed to be flagging, since >> it left the gull floating in the water and dragged itself out, onto >> the bank, and up onto a low branch of a bush to gather itself. It >> moved position after a while, walking to another spot, and lifting >> itself to perch. I've never seen or even thought of a hawk swimming >> (winging its way through the water), but this one surely did. I >> wouldn't have thought a Cooper's would attack a gull either, and I >> began to second-guess myself, when I noticed later, at home, that >> immature Harriers have a red wash on the breast, something I wasn't >> familiar with. However, this one showed no white on the rump, and >> others who witnessed this called it a female Cooper's also. The bird >> was seen at some distance. I'm curious to know if anyone has >> witnessed a similar behaviour, or heard of something similar? Very important. It illustrates how evolution ultimately must work. Behavior must precede adaptation. The clumsy swimming reminds me of the island off Australia where, absent predators, kangaroos have begun climbing on trees, and very clumsily indeed. If Cooper's start making a living by drowning gulls, in a brief 10,000 generations they may have water-proof feathers and wings that work well in water. Jules Levin Los Angeles >> Ernie Jardine >> Pickering Ontario >> >> birding AT aol.com >> >> www.birdsongidentification.com >> >> >> >> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html >> . >> > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Swimming Cooper's Hawk. From: Mark Cranford <mark.cranford AT ROGERS.COM> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 17:28:06 -0500 Sure there are more examples but the following can be found of SORA - searchable ornithological research archive http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/ Davis, M. 1948. Cooper's Hawk "drowning" its prey. Auk 65:298-299. Gerig, R. 1979. Death by drowning-one Cooper's Hawk's approach. Am. Birds 33:836. Mark Cranford Mississauga, Ont. mark.cranford at rogers dot com On 03/02/2012 4:45 PM, birding AT AOL.COM wrote: > Chatters, > > In an inlet of Whitby harbour (just east of Toronto), where Trumpeter Swans are in danger of being run over as they converge on approaching cars for handouts, I recently saw a very unusual sight (for me). I did not witness the attack, but I saw a female Cooper's Hawk finishing off a Ring-billed Gull by holding its head down in the water. When the struggle was over, the Cooper's started "rowing" with its wings toward the shore, not without difficulty, as it clutched the gull, pulling it through the water. > > As it finally approached the shore, it seemed to be flagging, since it left the gull floating in the water and dragged itself out, onto the bank, and up onto a low branch of a bush to gather itself. It moved position after a while, walking to another spot, and lifting itself to perch. I've never seen or even thought of a hawk swimming (winging its way through the water), but this one surely did. I wouldn't have thought a Cooper's would attack a gull either, and I began to second-guess myself, when I noticed later, at home, that immature Harriers have a red wash on the breast, something I wasn't familiar with. However, this one showed no white on the rump, and others who witnessed this called it a female Cooper's also. The bird was seen at some distance. I'm curious to know if anyone has witnessed a similar behaviour, or heard of something similar? > > Ernie Jardine > Pickering Ontario > > birding AT aol.com > > www.birdsongidentification.com > > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > . > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Swimming Cooper's Hawk. From: "Tangren, Gerald Vernon" <tangren AT WSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 21:55:57 +0000 Donald Farner in the 'Birds of Crater Lake' relates watching a bald eagle doing the "breast stroke" out in the lake and onto to shore. On 2/3/12 1:45 PM, "birding AT AOL.COM" wrote: > Chatters, > > In an inlet of Whitby harbour (just east of Toronto), where Trumpeter Swans > are in danger of being run over as they converge on approaching cars for > handouts, I recently saw a very unusual sight (for me). I did not witness the > attack, but I saw a female Cooper's Hawk finishing off a Ring-billed Gull by > holding its head down in the water. When the struggle was over, the Cooper's > started "rowing" with its wings toward the shore, not without difficulty, as > it clutched the gull, pulling it through the water. > > As it finally approached the shore, it seemed to be flagging, since it left > the gull floating in the water and dragged itself out, onto the bank, and up > onto a low branch of a bush to gather itself. It moved position after a while, > walking to another spot, and lifting itself to perch. I've never seen or even > thought of a hawk swimming (winging its way through the water), but this one > surely did. I wouldn't have thought a Cooper's would attack a gull either, and > I began to second-guess myself, when I noticed later, at home, that immature > Harriers have a red wash on the breast, something I wasn't familiar with. > However, this one showed no white on the rump, and others who witnessed this > called it a female Cooper's also. The bird was seen at some distance. I'm > curious to know if anyone has witnessed a similar behaviour, or heard of > something similar? > > Ernie Jardine > Pickering Ontario > > birding AT aol.com > > www.birdsongidentification.com > > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html -- Jerry WA State University-Tree Fruit Research & Extension Center Wenatchee, WA 509-663-8181 x 231 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b (during the current phase of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation) http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/webdev/Favorites What do we call the science of classifying living things? Racism ‹George Takei BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Swimming Cooper's Hawk. From: birding AT AOL.COM Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 16:45:39 -0500 Chatters, In an inlet of Whitby harbour (just east of Toronto), where Trumpeter Swans are in danger of being run over as they converge on approaching cars for handouts, I recently saw a very unusual sight (for me). I did not witness the attack, but I saw a female Cooper's Hawk finishing off a Ring-billed Gull by holding its head down in the water. When the struggle was over, the Cooper's started "rowing" with its wings toward the shore, not without difficulty, as it clutched the gull, pulling it through the water. As it finally approached the shore, it seemed to be flagging, since it left the gull floating in the water and dragged itself out, onto the bank, and up onto a low branch of a bush to gather itself. It moved position after a while, walking to another spot, and lifting itself to perch. I've never seen or even thought of a hawk swimming (winging its way through the water), but this one surely did. I wouldn't have thought a Cooper's would attack a gull either, and I began to second-guess myself, when I noticed later, at home, that immature Harriers have a red wash on the breast, something I wasn't familiar with. However, this one showed no white on the rump, and others who witnessed this called it a female Cooper's also. The bird was seen at some distance. I'm curious to know if anyone has witnessed a similar behaviour, or heard of something similar? Ernie Jardine Pickering Ontario birding AT aol.com www.birdsongidentification.com BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Researchers say Ivory-bill is extinct From: "J. Padilla" <jvp0208 AT AOL.COM> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 11:55:54 -0500 I recently asked Dr. Jackson about the possibility of the bird still existing in Cuba; he said he didn't know...(but he did not say its extinct)I have talked to Dr. Arturo Kirckonnel, one of Cuba's most notable ornithologist, and co-writer of The Birds of Cuba; and he still is optimistic of the bird surviving in remote areas of Sierra Maestra. Being a fan of Caribbean birding, I hope it is in Cuba and we get a chance of someday seeing this magnificent species. Jose V. Padilla-Lopez, M.D., Fort Myers, FL. Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2012, at 12:20 PM, Matt Mendenhall wrote: > Hi all-- > > Two groups of scientists studying museum specimens and sightings of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker have reached the same disappointing conclusion: The iconic bird is extinct. > > You can read more at BirdWatchingDaily.com: > > http://cs.birdwatchingdaily.com/BRDCS/blogs/field_of_view/archive/2012/02/02/ivory-billed-woodpecker-is-extinct-say-two-teams-of-researchers.aspx > > > -- > Matt Mendenhall > Associate Editor, BirdWatching > http://www.birdwatchingdaily.com > http://twitter.com/mdmendenhall > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Groundhog Day and birds - a memory From: "B.G. Sloan" <bgsloan2 AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 17:41:59 -0800 Today is Groundhog Day in the US. I'm reminded of my favorite memory involving a groundhog and a bird... Four years ago this May I was walking along a hedgerow bordering the Indiana University cross country course. I saw a chunky shape 20 feet up in a rather spindly tree. Upon closer inspection I realized it was a groundhog. I knew they could climb trees if necessary, but I'd never seen one in a tree before. As I got closer I could see some motion. Turns out it was a Brown Thrasher perched on the groundhog's back, pecking the groundhog vigorously on the back of the head. The bird looked furious and the groundhog looked completely distressed and disoriented. As near as I could tell, the groundhog was probably chased up into the tree by one of the ubiquitous local coyotes and got too close to a Brown Thrasher nest. It was a rather odd (but somehow humorous) scene. :-) Bernie Sloan Milwaukee, WI BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: 9 Whooping Cranes will be released on Alabama refuge From: Matt Mendenhall <mmendenhall AT KALMBACH.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 14:02:47 -0600 Hi everyone, We have another news story on our blog you might be interested in: Nine young Whooping Cranes that flew from Wisconsin to Alabama behind ultralight planes last fall will not be led to refuges in Florida but instead will be released on Wheeler National Wildlife Refuge near Decatur, Alabama. http://cs.birdwatchingdaily.com/BRDCS/blogs/field_of_view/archive/2012/02/02/9-whooping-cranes-will-be-released-on-alabama-refuge.aspx -- Matt Mendenhall Associate Editor, BirdWatching http://www.birdwatchingdaily.com http://twitter.com/mdmendenhall BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentifications - guess what is was From: Colin Talcroft <ctalcroft AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 09:38:21 -0800 Colin Talcroft Santa Rosa, CA Sonoma County Green Heron, maybe? Colin Talcroft Santa Rosa, CA Sonoma County Bird Watching Spots http://colintalcroft.com/Sonoma_County_Bird_Watching_Spots/SCBWS_front_page.html ________________________________ From: "gljeinwv AT juno.com" To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 9:28 AM Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentifications - guess what is was Misidentifications by birders; Someone mentioned an immature DC Cormorant being reported as a Yellow-billed Loon. That also happened here once. Others that occur here, and I'm sure elsewhere; Lesser Scaup reported as Greater becuse the head appeared greenish Juvenile Cooper's Hawks reported as Goshawks Fall-plumaged Warbling Vireos reported as Philadelphia Vireo Fall-plumaged Tennessee Warblers reported as Orange-crowned Fall-plumaged Acadian Flycatchers as Yellow-bellied Rusty Blackbirds reported as Brewer's in winterJuvenile Swamp Sparrows as Lincoln's This isn't so much of a misidentification by a birder, as a visual mis-perception by a non-birder.  Regarless, it's one of my favorite stories. Years ago a co-worker approached me in regards to a bird he had seen.He described it as a darkish bird with a long orange tail.  My first thought was some exotic species, but even after running those candidates through my head, I couldn't come up with anything.  So, I started questioning him. "Where were you when you saw it"?  "I was down by the river" "About how big was it"?  "About the size of a crow"?  "Other than being dark, what color would you say it was"? "Maybe dark green" "Are you sure it had a long orange tail"? "Yes, it definitely had an orange tail" "How long was it's tail"? "All I can tell you is that it's tail stuck out past the end of the bird". It finally occured to me what the bird was, but I'm not going to tell. This will be more fun if I don't say. Here's the last clue.  This occured during the bird's breeding season.  Gary Felton - Kingwood, WV BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Misidentifications - guess what is was From: "gljeinwv AT juno.com" <gljeinwv@JUNO.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 17:28:21 GMT Misidentifications by birders; Someone mentioned an immature DC Cormorant being reported as a Yellow-billed Loon. That also happened here once. Others that occur here, and I'm sure elsewhere; Lesser Scaup reported as Greater becuse the head appeared greenish Juvenile Cooper's Hawks reported as Goshawks Fall-plumaged Warbling Vireos reported as Philadelphia Vireo Fall-plumaged Tennessee Warblers reported as Orange-crowned Fall-plumaged Acadian Flycatchers as Yellow-bellied Rusty Blackbirds reported as Brewer's in winterJuvenile Swamp Sparrows as Lincoln's This isn't so much of a misidentification by a birder, as a visual mis-perception by a non-birder. Regarless, it's one of my favorite stories. Years ago a co-worker approached me in regards to a bird he had seen.He described it as a darkish bird with a long orange tail. My first thought was some exotic species, but even after running those candidates through my head, I couldn't come up with anything. So, I started questioning him. "Where were you when you saw it"? "I was down by the river" "About how big was it"? "About the size of a crow"? "Other than being dark, what color would you say it was"? "Maybe dark green" "Are you sure it had a long orange tail"? "Yes, it definitely had an orange tail" "How long was it's tail"? "All I can tell you is that it's tail stuck out past the end of the bird". It finally occured to me what the bird was, but I'm not going to tell. This will be more fun if I don't say. Here's the last clue. This occured during the bird's breeding season. Gary Felton - Kingwood, WV BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Researchers say Ivory-bill is extinct From: Matt Mendenhall <mmendenhall AT KALMBACH.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 11:20:23 -0600 Hi all-- Two groups of scientists studying museum specimens and sightings of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker have reached the same disappointing conclusion: The iconic bird is extinct. You can read more at BirdWatchingDaily.com: http://cs.birdwatchingdaily.com/BRDCS/blogs/field_of_view/archive/2012/02/02/ivory-billed-woodpecker-is-extinct-say-two-teams-of-researchers.aspx -- Matt Mendenhall Associate Editor, BirdWatching http://www.birdwatchingdaily.com http://twitter.com/mdmendenhall BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Douglas Carver <dhmcarver AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 10:02:04 -0700 Further to Roger's comment about optical devices, one also has to keep in mind how the quality of light (time of day, cloud cover, angle of light etc.) can affect our observation of color, even with the naked eye. I do not know how many times I have patiently tried to explain to people that they are not seeing some unusual bird, just a flock of House Finches caught in light from an unusual angle. Douglas Carver Albuquerque, NM On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Roger wrote: > One also has to keep in mind that optical compression can occur when > using any telescopic device. This creates a fore-shortening effect that > can distort certain perspectives such as making a long bill look shorter > if the head is turned slightly. > > > Roger Craik > Maple Ridge BC > > > On 01/02/2012 8:06 PM, Barry K. MacKay wrote: > >> Actually... >> >> You CAN tell the distance of an object in air (but not in outer space) by >> how much it is "grayed" by the intervening atmosphere. But you cannot >> come >> close to doing so to the degree necessary to separate two similar bird >> species, such as Cooper's and Sharp-shinned Hawks, by size, obviously. >> >> On the other hand, you could not misjudge a model airplane held at arm's >> length for being the same size as a real airplane whose distance made it >> to >> appear the same size nose to tail...the latter would show dramatically >> less >> detail and the colours would be less distinct. In heavy atmosphere, like >> fog, this effect can be quite dramatic. >> >> Barry >> >> Barry Kent MacKay >> Markham, Ontario, Canada (where we don't identify UFOs until the silvery, >> big-eyed creatures emerge from the hatch, looking for our leader). >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) >> [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.**ARIZONA.EDU ] >> On Behalf Of Douglas Carver >> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:31 PM >> To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >> Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification >> >> Also the reason why I have always been taught that one should be very >> careful before identifying a bird in the field by size. >> >> Douglas Carver >> Albuquerque, NM >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Ronald Orenstein >> **wrote: >> >> It is in fact impossible to determine the size of an object without >>> knowing how far away it is - a fact that has been responsible for many >>> "UFO" sightings that were actually either celestial objects like the moon >>> or very small objects up close. >>> >>> Ronald Orenstein >>> >>> 1825 Shady Creek Court >>> >>> Mississauga, ON L5L 3W2 >>> >>> Canada >>> >>> ronorenstein.blogspot.com >>> >>> --- On Thu, 2/2/12, Hilary Powers wrote: >>> >>> From: Hilary Powers >>> Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification >>> To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >>> Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 1:43 AM >>> >>> On 2/1/2012 1:22 PM, Bill Porteous wrote: >>> >>>> ... As the birds got closer they got bigger, until it was deduced >>>> that the flock was a flock of Sparrowhawks while the bigger bird with >>>> them was a Honey Buzzard (Pernis aviporus)! >>>> >>> Yes - size is hellishly hard to call. That reminds me of my favorite >>> mis-ID: I looked up and saw a crow on top of a tree. No question in my >>> mind that I was looking at a crow silhouetted against the sky... until I >>> got the binoculars on it, and saw that it was actually brilliant green, >>> with a long thin bill - in fact, a hummingbird on a tree much closer and >>> smaller than it seemed at first. >>> >>> So as my companions looked up from getting their scopes ready to go, I >>> said cheerily, "Oh, lookit the crow!" And they did. And they howled.... >>> >>> -- >>> - Hilary Powers - hilary AT powersedit.com - Oakland CA - >>> - Freelance copyediting and developmental editing - >>> - "Making Word Work for You" - www.the-efa.org/res/booklets.**php - >>> - The edit you want - online, on time, and on target - >>> - Salamander Feltworks NOW LIVE - www.SalamanderFeltworks.com - >>> >>> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/**birdchat/ >>> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/**archives/birdchat.html >>> >>> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/**birdchat/ >>> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/**archives/birdchat.html >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Dilexi iustitiam et odivi iniquitatem, propterea morior in exilio. >> >> (I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile.) >> >> -- the last words of Saint Pope Gregory VII (d. 1085) >> >> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/**birdchat/ >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/**archives/birdchat.html >> >> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/**birdchat/ >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/**archives/birdchat.html >> >> > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/**birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/**archives/birdchat.html > -- Dilexi iustitiam et odivi iniquitatem, propterea morior in exilio. (I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile.) -- the last words of Saint Pope Gregory VII (d. 1085) BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Roger <r_craik AT SHAW.CA> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 08:58:11 -0800 One also has to keep in mind that optical compression can occur when using any telescopic device. This creates a fore-shortening effect that can distort certain perspectives such as making a long bill look shorter if the head is turned slightly. Roger Craik Maple Ridge BC On 01/02/2012 8:06 PM, Barry K. MacKay wrote: > Actually... > > You CAN tell the distance of an object in air (but not in outer space) by > how much it is "grayed" by the intervening atmosphere. But you cannot come > close to doing so to the degree necessary to separate two similar bird > species, such as Cooper's and Sharp-shinned Hawks, by size, obviously. > > On the other hand, you could not misjudge a model airplane held at arm's > length for being the same size as a real airplane whose distance made it to > appear the same size nose to tail...the latter would show dramatically less > detail and the colours would be less distinct. In heavy atmosphere, like > fog, this effect can be quite dramatic. > > Barry > > Barry Kent MacKay > Markham, Ontario, Canada (where we don't identify UFOs until the silvery, > big-eyed creatures emerge from the hatch, looking for our leader). > > -----Original Message----- > From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) > [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Douglas Carver > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:31 PM > To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification > > Also the reason why I have always been taught that one should be very > careful before identifying a bird in the field by size. > > Douglas Carver > Albuquerque, NM > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Ronald Orenstein > wrote: > >> It is in fact impossible to determine the size of an object without >> knowing how far away it is - a fact that has been responsible for many >> "UFO" sightings that were actually either celestial objects like the moon >> or very small objects up close. >> >> Ronald Orenstein >> >> 1825 Shady Creek Court >> >> Mississauga, ON L5L 3W2 >> >> Canada >> >> ronorenstein.blogspot.com >> >> --- On Thu, 2/2/12, Hilary Powers wrote: >> >> From: Hilary Powers >> Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification >> To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >> Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 1:43 AM >> >> On 2/1/2012 1:22 PM, Bill Porteous wrote: >>> ... As the birds got closer they got bigger, until it was deduced >>> that the flock was a flock of Sparrowhawks while the bigger bird with >>> them was a Honey Buzzard (Pernis aviporus)! >> Yes - size is hellishly hard to call. That reminds me of my favorite >> mis-ID: I looked up and saw a crow on top of a tree. No question in my >> mind that I was looking at a crow silhouetted against the sky... until I >> got the binoculars on it, and saw that it was actually brilliant green, >> with a long thin bill - in fact, a hummingbird on a tree much closer and >> smaller than it seemed at first. >> >> So as my companions looked up from getting their scopes ready to go, I >> said cheerily, "Oh, lookit the crow!" And they did. And they howled.... >> >> -- >> - Hilary Powers - hilary AT powersedit.com - Oakland CA - >> - Freelance copyediting and developmental editing - >> - "Making Word Work for You" - www.the-efa.org/res/booklets.php - >> - The edit you want - online, on time, and on target - >> - Salamander Feltworks NOW LIVE - www.SalamanderFeltworks.com - >> >> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html >> >> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html >> > > > -- > Dilexi iustitiam et odivi iniquitatem, propterea morior in exilio. > > (I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile.) > > -- the last words of Saint Pope Gregory VII (d. 1085) > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Mary Beth Stowe <MiriamEagl AT AOL.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 07:45:14 -0500 I discovered that Green Jays here in the Valley like to do Gray Hawks, so now I'm never sure if I'm really hearing a GRHA or not (unless it's "singing")! :-P Mary Beth Stowe McAllen, TX _www.miriameaglemon.com_ (http://www.miriameaglemon.com/) In a message dated 1/31/2012 9:35:55 A.M. Central Standard Time, jjcbird AT VERIZON.NET writes: I am usually fooled by American Redstart which seems to imitate various other warblers. For example, I heard one do a perfect Black-and-White Warbler song once at Bashakill Marsh in New York State. Then there are the Blue Jays that imitate Red-shouldered and Red-tailed Hawks. If, however, the jay repeats the call a second time I will recognize that it was a jay I just heard and not a hawk. John J. Collins Raritan, NJ jjcbird AT verizon.net "God desires that all the world be pure in his sight. The earth should not be injured. The earth should not be destroyed." (Hildegard von Bingen) -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Al Schirmacher Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 10:24 AM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average birder? And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - heard warblers - or....? Al Schirmacher Princeton, MN Sent from my iPhone BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: John van der Woude <jvanderw AT WORLDONLINE.NL> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 11:44:07 +0100 At the same spot, Falsterbo, we met a birder who was convinced that she had just seen a group of 30 Nutcrackers (Nucifraga caryocatactes) flying by! We nodded hesitatingly but politely and while walking on we discussed what she could have seen. At once it became clear, when I saw a Starling in its typical, heavily spotted transition plumage from juvenal to first winter... Still, it's good that unlikely observations are less and less easily dismissed because of the overwhelming increase in photographical evidence. John van der Woude Holland From: Bill Porteous Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:22 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification This reminds me of a story I heard in my earliest youth about something that probably happened in the late 1950s. A group of Europe's finest were watching the raptor migration at Falsterbo in southern Sweden when someone got his binoculars on an approaching flock. At first everyone agreed that it was a flock of Starlings and that the bigger bird with them was a Sparrowhawk (Accipiter nisus). As the birds got closer they got bigger, until it was deduced that the flock was a flock of Sparrowhawks while the bigger bird with them was a Honey Buzzard (Pernis aviporus)! Bill Porteous Panama BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 23:06:39 -0500 Actually... You CAN tell the distance of an object in air (but not in outer space) by how much it is "grayed" by the intervening atmosphere. But you cannot come close to doing so to the degree necessary to separate two similar bird species, such as Cooper's and Sharp-shinned Hawks, by size, obviously. On the other hand, you could not misjudge a model airplane held at arm's length for being the same size as a real airplane whose distance made it to appear the same size nose to tail...the latter would show dramatically less detail and the colours would be less distinct. In heavy atmosphere, like fog, this effect can be quite dramatic. Barry Barry Kent MacKay Markham, Ontario, Canada (where we don't identify UFOs until the silvery, big-eyed creatures emerge from the hatch, looking for our leader). -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Douglas Carver Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:31 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification Also the reason why I have always been taught that one should be very careful before identifying a bird in the field by size. Douglas Carver Albuquerque, NM On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Ronald Orenstein wrote: > It is in fact impossible to determine the size of an object without > knowing how far away it is - a fact that has been responsible for many > "UFO" sightings that were actually either celestial objects like the moon > or very small objects up close. > > Ronald Orenstein > > 1825 Shady Creek Court > > Mississauga, ON L5L 3W2 > > Canada > > ronorenstein.blogspot.com > > --- On Thu, 2/2/12, Hilary Powers wrote: > > From: Hilary Powers > Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification > To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 1:43 AM > > On 2/1/2012 1:22 PM, Bill Porteous wrote: > > ... As the birds got closer they got bigger, until it was deduced > > that the flock was a flock of Sparrowhawks while the bigger bird with > > them was a Honey Buzzard (Pernis aviporus)! > > Yes - size is hellishly hard to call. That reminds me of my favorite > mis-ID: I looked up and saw a crow on top of a tree. No question in my > mind that I was looking at a crow silhouetted against the sky... until I > got the binoculars on it, and saw that it was actually brilliant green, > with a long thin bill - in fact, a hummingbird on a tree much closer and > smaller than it seemed at first. > > So as my companions looked up from getting their scopes ready to go, I > said cheerily, "Oh, lookit the crow!" And they did. And they howled.... > > -- > - Hilary Powers - hilary AT powersedit.com - Oakland CA - > - Freelance copyediting and developmental editing - > - "Making Word Work for You" - www.the-efa.org/res/booklets.php - > - The edit you want - online, on time, and on target - > - Salamander Feltworks NOW LIVE - www.SalamanderFeltworks.com - > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > -- Dilexi iustitiam et odivi iniquitatem, propterea morior in exilio. (I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile.) -- the last words of Saint Pope Gregory VII (d. 1085) BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Douglas Carver <dhmcarver AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 19:30:55 -0700 Also the reason why I have always been taught that one should be very careful before identifying a bird in the field by size. Douglas Carver Albuquerque, NM On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Ronald Orenstein wrote: > It is in fact impossible to determine the size of an object without > knowing how far away it is - a fact that has been responsible for many > "UFO" sightings that were actually either celestial objects like the moon > or very small objects up close. > > Ronald Orenstein > > 1825 Shady Creek Court > > Mississauga, ON L5L 3W2 > > Canada > > ronorenstein.blogspot.com > > --- On Thu, 2/2/12, Hilary Powers wrote: > > From: Hilary Powers > Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification > To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 1:43 AM > > On 2/1/2012 1:22 PM, Bill Porteous wrote: > > ... As the birds got closer they got bigger, until it was deduced > > that the flock was a flock of Sparrowhawks while the bigger bird with > > them was a Honey Buzzard (Pernis aviporus)! > > Yes - size is hellishly hard to call. That reminds me of my favorite > mis-ID: I looked up and saw a crow on top of a tree. No question in my > mind that I was looking at a crow silhouetted against the sky... until I > got the binoculars on it, and saw that it was actually brilliant green, > with a long thin bill - in fact, a hummingbird on a tree much closer and > smaller than it seemed at first. > > So as my companions looked up from getting their scopes ready to go, I > said cheerily, "Oh, lookit the crow!" And they did. And they howled.... > > -- > - Hilary Powers - hilary AT powersedit.com - Oakland CA - > - Freelance copyediting and developmental editing - > - "Making Word Work for You" - www.the-efa.org/res/booklets.php - > - The edit you want - online, on time, and on target - > - Salamander Feltworks NOW LIVE - www.SalamanderFeltworks.com - > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > -- Dilexi iustitiam et odivi iniquitatem, propterea morior in exilio. (I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile.) -- the last words of Saint Pope Gregory VII (d. 1085) BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Ronald Orenstein <ron.orenstein AT ROGERS.COM> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:24:50 -0800 It is in fact impossible to determine the size of an object without knowing how far away it is - a fact that has been responsible for many "UFO" sightings that were actually either celestial objects like the moon or very small objects up close. Ronald Orenstein 1825 Shady Creek Court Mississauga, ON L5L 3W2 Canada ronorenstein.blogspot.com --- On Thu, 2/2/12, Hilary Powers wrote: From: Hilary Powers Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Date: Thursday, February 2, 2012, 1:43 AM On 2/1/2012 1:22 PM, Bill Porteous wrote: > ... As the birds got closer they got bigger, until it was deduced > that the flock was a flock of Sparrowhawks while the bigger bird with > them was a Honey Buzzard (Pernis aviporus)! Yes - size is hellishly hard to call. That reminds me of my favorite mis-ID: I looked up and saw a crow on top of a tree. No question in my mind that I was looking at a crow silhouetted against the sky... until I got the binoculars on it, and saw that it was actually brilliant green, with a long thin bill - in fact, a hummingbird on a tree much closer and smaller than it seemed at first. So as my companions looked up from getting their scopes ready to go, I said cheerily, "Oh, lookit the crow!" And they did. And they howled.... -- -       Hilary Powers - hilary AT powersedit.com - Oakland CA        - -        Freelance copyediting and developmental editing          - -  "Making Word Work for You" - www.the-efa.org/res/booklets.php  - -       The edit you want - online, on time, and on target        - -   Salamander Feltworks NOW LIVE - www.SalamanderFeltworks.com   - BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Hilary Powers <hilary AT POWERSEDIT.COM> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 17:43:15 -0800 On 2/1/2012 1:22 PM, Bill Porteous wrote: > ... As the birds got closer they got bigger, until it was deduced > that the flock was a flock of Sparrowhawks while the bigger bird with > them was a Honey Buzzard (Pernis aviporus)! Yes - size is hellishly hard to call. That reminds me of my favorite mis-ID: I looked up and saw a crow on top of a tree. No question in my mind that I was looking at a crow silhouetted against the sky... until I got the binoculars on it, and saw that it was actually brilliant green, with a long thin bill - in fact, a hummingbird on a tree much closer and smaller than it seemed at first. So as my companions looked up from getting their scopes ready to go, I said cheerily, "Oh, lookit the crow!" And they did. And they howled.... -- - Hilary Powers - hilary AT powersedit.com - Oakland CA - - Freelance copyediting and developmental editing - - "Making Word Work for You" - www.the-efa.org/res/booklets.php - - The edit you want - online, on time, and on target - - Salamander Feltworks NOW LIVE - www.SalamanderFeltworks.com - BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Winter finches defy prognosticators From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 17:51:10 -0500 Or they read them, but don't like being told what to do? Barry Barry Kent MacKay Markham, Ontario, Canada -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Chuck Otte Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 5:25 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Winter finches defy prognosticators > Newspaper article about the predictions in the Winter Finch Forecast being > wrong this year. Wonder why? I personally think it's because the birds don't read the forecasts and don't really care! Chuck ----- Chuck Otte cotte AT ksu.edu County Extension Agent, Ag & Natural Resources Geary County Extension Office, PO BOX 28 785-238-4161 Junction City, Kansas 66441-0028 FAX 785-238-7166 http://www.geary.ksu.edu/ BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Winter finches defy prognosticators From: Chuck Otte <cotte AT KSU.EDU> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:25:24 -0600 > Newspaper article about the predictions in the Winter Finch Forecast being > wrong this year. Wonder why? I personally think it's because the birds don't read the forecasts and don't really care! Chuck ----- Chuck Otte cotte AT ksu.edu County Extension Agent, Ag & Natural Resources Geary County Extension Office, PO BOX 28 785-238-4161 Junction City, Kansas 66441-0028 FAX 785-238-7166 http://www.geary.ksu.edu/ BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Bill Porteous <phaenostictus AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:22:59 -0500 This reminds me of a story I heard in my earliest youth about something that probably happened in the late 1950s. A group of Europe's finest were watching the raptor migration at Falsterbo in southern Sweden when someone got his binoculars on an approaching flock. At first everyone agreed that it was a flock of Starlings and that the bigger bird with them was a Sparrowhawk (Accipiter nisus). As the birds got closer they got bigger, until it was deduced that the flock was a flock of Sparrowhawks while the bigger bird with them was a Honey Buzzard (Pernis aviporus)! Bill Porteous Panama BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Winter finches defy prognosticators From: Denise Hughes <dhughes55 AT CLEARWIRE.NET> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:21:49 -0700 I received a message from a friend who reminded me that several large flocks of Common Redpolls have been reported in the central and southern areas of Idaho. And I believe one large flock was seen near Jordan Valley, Oregon. Denise On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 1:20 PM, B.G. Sloan wrote: > Newspaper article about the predictions in the Winter Finch Forecast being > wrong this year. Wonder why? > > See: http://bit.ly/ymA8Rv > > Bernie Sloan > Milwaukee, WI > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > -- Denise Hughes Caldwell, Idaho dhughes55 AT clearwire.net BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Winter finches defy prognosticators From: "Tangren, Gerald Vernon" <tangren AT WSU.EDU> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 21:02:02 +0000 Wonder if it's related to the way the weather has defied the professional climatologists? As many of you may know, but I'll repeat it anyway, a wet and cold winter had been predicted from many areas based upon the strong La Nina in the Pacific. However, that didn't happen because the effect was overridden by abnormal pressure over Greenland and the North Atlantic. While the 2011 La Nina pattern was almost the same as 2010, the 2011 North Atlantic pattern was a complete opposite to 2010. On 2/1/12 12:20 PM, "B.G. Sloan" wrote: > Newspaper article about the predictions in the Winter Finch Forecast being > wrong this year. Wonder why? > > See: http://bit.ly/ymA8Rv > > Bernie Sloan > Milwaukee, WI > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html -- Jerry WA State University-Tree Fruit Research & Extension Center Wenatchee, WA 509-663-8181 x 231 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b (during the current phase of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation) http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/webdev/Favorites What do we call the science of classifying living things? Racism ‹George Takei BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Winter finches defy prognosticators From: Denise Hughes <dhughes55 AT CLEARWIRE.NET> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 13:33:35 -0700 Common Redpolls have been plentiful around McCall, Idaho which is located about 2 hours north of Boise. It had been almost 10 years since I had last seen a Common Redpoll; this year I have seen hundreds of them. A few weeks ago I also saw a small flock of White-winged Crossbills in McCall. Birders in Sun Valley and Boise have reported seeing a few Common Redpolls also. Denise On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 1:20 PM, B.G. Sloan wrote: > Newspaper article about the predictions in the Winter Finch Forecast being > wrong this year. Wonder why? > > See: http://bit.ly/ymA8Rv > > Bernie Sloan > Milwaukee, WI > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > -- Denise Hughes Caldwell, Idaho dhughes55 AT clearwire.net BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Winter finches defy prognosticators From: "B.G. Sloan" <bgsloan2 AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:20:04 -0800 Newspaper article about the predictions in the Winter Finch Forecast being wrong this year. Wonder why? See: http://bit.ly/ymA8Rv Bernie Sloan Milwaukee, WI BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: "Tangren, Gerald Vernon" <tangren AT WSU.EDU> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 19:38:18 +0000 Laura you sound like one that can hang in there. If I can throw in another story about an expert...we had a gentleman who served on his state's (not WA) rare bird committee report a mixed flock of immature Herring and adult Western gulls. We immediately checked it out because Western's are almost non-existent this far inland in Washington. It was a flock of California gulls. The adults were in spring breeding form with brightly colored, orangey legs... On 2/1/12 11:11 AM, "Laura Erickson" wrote: > Time for another story from my personal archives. ... > > The trick about being an expert at anything is that as soon as you > feel your reputation is at stake, your focus can veer from accurately > figuring out the identity of a bird to being acknowledged as THE > authority, especially in front of someone who is clearly less > experienced. > > Best, > > Laura Erickson > Duluth, MN > > > For the love, understanding, and protection of birds > > There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds. > There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of > nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after > the winter. > >             --Rachel Carson > > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html -- Jerry WA State University-Tree Fruit Research & Extension Center Wenatchee, WA 509-663-8181 x 231 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b (during the current phase of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation) http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/webdev/Favorites "Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing". -­ Theodore Roosevelt BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Larry Gardella <lgardellabirds AT CHARTER.NET> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:33:03 -0500 How true, Laura. I particularly like your opening point about being "at the cocky stage wherein I was sure I was more advanced than I was." I like to say that as a birder I am better now than I was when I thought that I was better than I am now. Larry Gardella Montgomery, AL BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: "Gorton, Gregg" <Gregg.Gorton AT VA.GOV> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:32:25 -0500 Hear, hear! Thanks for those stories, Laura--the moral of which, I think, is: Humility, humility, humility -- and patience, patience, patience... I usually start bird walks that I lead with the "caveat emptor" warning that I may make a mistake on the walk today, and should such a moment occur, I look forward to learning something new, or appreciating something (like how difficult bird ID can be!) yet again... On one walk, I once pointed out a young owlet just visible above the edge of the nest, saying "there's the little furball now!"-- but it turned out to be a dead rabbit the male had no doubt deposited in the nest for mom and babes to feed on.... I had made the right call ("furball"), but had the wrong Class of animal! I recount one or two such moments for the group, and encourage them/us all to be humble, and not to be afraid to TAKE TIME in making an identification, rather than feeling we must be the first to shout out "the answer"-- Gregg Gregg Gorton Narberth, PA 19072 Homoaves [at] gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Laura Erickson Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 2:11 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification Time for another story from my personal archives. When I'd been birding for four years or so, and was at the cocky stage wherein I was sure I was more advanced than I was, there was a report of a Yellow-throated Vireo in my Christmas Bird Count area, a few days before the count. The man I did the count with and I scoured the area, and soon found a vireo. It was most uncooperative for quite a while, but I got a clear glimpse of yellow sides, right when he was saying he was seeing the yellow throat. The thing is, I realized that Yellow-throated Vireos don't have yellow sides, so I said the two possibilities were Solitary (not yet called Blue-headed) or White-eyed. I said either would be more likely than Yellow-throated anyway, because they both winter in the southern US unlike the Yellow-throated Vireo. The man I was birding with was one of the top birders in the state, as was the man who made the original call of Yellow-throated Vireo. I'm presuming the original call was made because this most uncooperative bird didn't show all of itself at any one time, and that species is the more likely during the breeding season, and even on migration in the spot where it was being seen, so both men jumped to the conclusion that they were seeing a yellow throat when it was showing yellow sides. I kept insisting it was the sides that were yellow, and so it HAD to be Solitary or White-eyed, but my CBC partner literally snorted with derision, saying White-eyed was IMPOSSIBLE. Indeed, they are quite rare in Wisconsin during nesting, and there had never been a CBC record of one in the state, but I decided that because I'd seen them in Texas in winter and they were very active while skulking around exactly as this one was, I stuck to my guns that it was certainly more likely than Yellow-throated in winter, though I agreed the more likely possibility was Solitary, He finally got a clear look at the yellow sides, looked in my field guide, and was ready to put it down as a Solitary and move on--he was anxious to cover more ground. But suddenly I got a momentary glimpse of the whole bird--a White-eyed Vireo! He got a quick look at the head, and said it was a Solitary but something seemed to be wrong with its eye--most likely an injury. Even at my cockiest, I've always tended to defer to people who are more experienced, and he was way above me in credentials, but boy--this really was a White-eyed Vireo, so I decided to stay put until he, too, got an excellent look. Meanwhile, the bird was making all those chatty little vocalizations I'd heard White-eyes make in Texas, but I did have to admit to myself that the fact that I'd never heard those sounds from Solitary Vireos didn't mean they didn't make them. It took a good ten minutes for my partner to finally see the bird fully, and sure enough it was a White-eyed Vireo. Interestingly, as the CBC compiler at the time, he was the one who documented and got full credit for the sighting, My first summer in Madison, I was still quite a beginner, and I went on a field trip to a wetland where four Glossy Ibises were being reported. We went out on a field trip, and the leader exultantly found them. I was excited, but didn't know how he could be certain that they were Glossies rather than White-faced, this being August. His voice dripped with condescension as he said Wisconsin had several records of Glossies but none for White-faced, so OF COURSE they were Glossies. It turns out there was a single specimen of Glossy Ibis found many decades ago in Wisconsin, and ever single Plegadis ibis ever seen after that was called a Glossy. Fortunately, Sam Robbins eventually got the nomenclature committee to review the records and revise all the Glossies that weren't fully documented to Plegadis sp. The trick about being an expert at anything is that as soon as you feel your reputation is at stake, your focus can veer from accurately figuring out the identity of a bird to being acknowledged as THE authority, especially in front of someone who is clearly less experienced. Best, Laura Erickson Duluth, MN For the love, understanding, and protection of birds There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds. There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the winter.             --Rachel Carson Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Laura Erickson <bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:11:21 -0500 Time for another story from my personal archives. When I'd been birding for four years or so, and was at the cocky stage wherein I was sure I was more advanced than I was, there was a report of a Yellow-throated Vireo in my Christmas Bird Count area, a few days before the count. The man I did the count with and I scoured the area, and soon found a vireo. It was most uncooperative for quite a while, but I got a clear glimpse of yellow sides, right when he was saying he was seeing the yellow throat. The thing is, I realized that Yellow-throated Vireos don't have yellow sides, so I said the two possibilities were Solitary (not yet called Blue-headed) or White-eyed. I said either would be more likely than Yellow-throated anyway, because they both winter in the southern US unlike the Yellow-throated Vireo. The man I was birding with was one of the top birders in the state, as was the man who made the original call of Yellow-throated Vireo. I'm presuming the original call was made because this most uncooperative bird didn't show all of itself at any one time, and that species is the more likely during the breeding season, and even on migration in the spot where it was being seen, so both men jumped to the conclusion that they were seeing a yellow throat when it was showing yellow sides. I kept insisting it was the sides that were yellow, and so it HAD to be Solitary or White-eyed, but my CBC partner literally snorted with derision, saying White-eyed was IMPOSSIBLE. Indeed, they are quite rare in Wisconsin during nesting, and there had never been a CBC record of one in the state, but I decided that because I'd seen them in Texas in winter and they were very active while skulking around exactly as this one was, I stuck to my guns that it was certainly more likely than Yellow-throated in winter, though I agreed the more likely possibility was Solitary, He finally got a clear look at the yellow sides, looked in my field guide, and was ready to put it down as a Solitary and move on--he was anxious to cover more ground. But suddenly I got a momentary glimpse of the whole bird--a White-eyed Vireo! He got a quick look at the head, and said it was a Solitary but something seemed to be wrong with its eye--most likely an injury. Even at my cockiest, I've always tended to defer to people who are more experienced, and he was way above me in credentials, but boy--this really was a White-eyed Vireo, so I decided to stay put until he, too, got an excellent look. Meanwhile, the bird was making all those chatty little vocalizations I'd heard White-eyes make in Texas, but I did have to admit to myself that the fact that I'd never heard those sounds from Solitary Vireos didn't mean they didn't make them. It took a good ten minutes for my partner to finally see the bird fully, and sure enough it was a White-eyed Vireo. Interestingly, as the CBC compiler at the time, he was the one who documented and got full credit for the sighting, My first summer in Madison, I was still quite a beginner, and I went on a field trip to a wetland where four Glossy Ibises were being reported. We went out on a field trip, and the leader exultantly found them. I was excited, but didn't know how he could be certain that they were Glossies rather than White-faced, this being August. His voice dripped with condescension as he said Wisconsin had several records of Glossies but none for White-faced, so OF COURSE they were Glossies. It turns out there was a single specimen of Glossy Ibis found many decades ago in Wisconsin, and ever single Plegadis ibis ever seen after that was called a Glossy. Fortunately, Sam Robbins eventually got the nomenclature committee to review the records and revise all the Glossies that weren't fully documented to Plegadis sp. The trick about being an expert at anything is that as soon as you feel your reputation is at stake, your focus can veer from accurately figuring out the identity of a bird to being acknowledged as THE authority, especially in front of someone who is clearly less experienced. Best, Laura Erickson Duluth, MN For the love, understanding, and protection of birds There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds. There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the winter.             --Rachel Carson Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 09:40:41 -0800 I thought I was the only birder in the world who thought about things like this!   In addition to aberrance, the subject also comes up with hybrids and with vagrants.  If you get a "tick" of a species that's known to hybridize, how certain do you have to be that it's not a hybrid that happens to look more like one parent?  If you get a vagrant of a species that's known to be kept in captivity, how certain do you have to be (or does the relevant record committee have to be) that it arrived naturally?   The ABA listing rules have addressed these points.  For hybrids, you can count it unless there was evidence "clearly suggesting" that it was a hybrid.  (If you want an Indigo Bunting on your New Mexico list, how good a view do you need to make sure it doesn't have wingbars?  The rules give me the impression that you don't need to worry about this at all.)  For vagrants, you use your "best judgement".  For vagrants that are new to the region, you go by the judgement of the Checklist Committee.  I'm not sure those are quite consistent with each other.   Jerry Friedman Espanola, New Mexico >________________________________ >From: "Gorton, Gregg" >To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 10:10 AM >Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification > >The issue of valid identification in birding can be understood as yet another instance of a problem/process that is governed by what is called Bayesian logic, or Bayesian probability, an approach to statistical prediction developed in the 18th C. by Bayes, a mathematician, but popularized by Laplace a century later.  Bayesian logic is used everyday by physicians in the process of making medical diagnoses--which, as fans of "House" well known, is not an exact science, but rather a logical process based on statistical prediction applied to a set of data within the large context of the preexisting variations in the human population from which the "patient" has come....  > >In brief, the predictive validity of any given "sign" or, in this case, "field mark" (I include vocalizations here) in any given bird one is looking at (or hearing) is a function --to an important degree--of the prevalence of that "field mark" in the population of birds KNOWN TRULY to manifest or "express" that particular field mark being studied. > >  In other words, a bird with crossed upper and lower bills seen within the typical range of crossbill species is ALMOST CERTAINLY going to be a crossbill.... But a bird with a crossed bill seen, say,  in the desert of Arizona, is more likely to be a bird with an ABNORMAL bill...--since there ARE no true crossbills in that desert habitat....    Now, what if we are in an area of Alaska that is seeing an increasing prevalence of ABNORMAL bill shapes--cause still unknown--and we see a smallish finchlike bird with what looks like a "crossed bill"-- this is STILL likely to be a true crossbill species, but there is a slightly higher chance that in THAT area one is NOT looking at a true crossbill, but a "look-alike" crossbill that is deformed. Thus, due to the change in prevalence of the fieldmark in the BACKGROUND POPULATION-- in this latter case-- the positive predictive validity (read: tightness of true association between fieldmark and target species) of that field mark (crossed bill) will  have decreased, and the observer has been fooled. Another way to say this is that the NEGATIVE predictive validity of that field mark is higher in an area where  there is more than one possible associated species (true "Crossbill" species & deformed bill species)....  > >That's probably confusing, but at least it may get us thinking about how to associate what we are doing with statistical methodology... While there is controversy within the statistics/scientific community about Bayesian logic and method, I believe that in its relatively simplified form--such as I have tried to illustrate here--it is a very useful way to talk about bird ID.... > >Good (vs. "Bad") Bird-IDing, everyone!! > >Gregg > > >Gregg Gorton, MD >Narberth, PA 19072 >Homoaves [at] gmail.com > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of John van der Woude >Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 4:07 AM >To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification > >For me, in my breeding bird census area near Amsterdam, there is one striking example of this. We do have a few Spotted Flycatchers there, being one of the rarer breeding birds in the region. These are mostly noted by sound, and this can be enough to mark them on the map. However, I discovered that begging young Wrens (a common species of course) make a sound which is very similar to the call (not the song) of Spotted Flycatcher. So hearing the call is not enough, it should be the song (two-syllable in stead of the one-syllable call). Seeing is even better of course, but that's not easy in these marshy woodlands. > >John van der Woude >Holland >www.jvanderw.nl > >  From: Larry Gardella >  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 4:28 AM >  To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >  Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification > > >  Yes, but I think more common birds are misidentified as rare birds than >  rare birds missed among common birds, partly because there are so many >  more common birds, many of which look different but are the same >  species, partly because of the hope to find something rare. > >  Larry Gardella >  Montgomery, AL > > > >BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: "Gorton, Gregg" <Gregg.Gorton AT VA.GOV> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:10:54 -0500 The issue of valid identification in birding can be understood as yet another instance of a problem/process that is governed by what is called Bayesian logic, or Bayesian probability, an approach to statistical prediction developed in the 18th C. by Bayes, a mathematician, but popularized by Laplace a century later. Bayesian logic is used everyday by physicians in the process of making medical diagnoses--which, as fans of "House" well known, is not an exact science, but rather a logical process based on statistical prediction applied to a set of data within the large context of the preexisting variations in the human population from which the "patient" has come.... In brief, the predictive validity of any given "sign" or, in this case, "field mark" (I include vocalizations here) in any given bird one is looking at (or hearing) is a function --to an important degree--of the prevalence of that "field mark" in the population of birds KNOWN TRULY to manifest or "express" that particular field mark being studied. In other words, a bird with crossed upper and lower bills seen within the typical range of crossbill species is ALMOST CERTAINLY going to be a crossbill.... But a bird with a crossed bill seen, say, in the desert of Arizona, is more likely to be a bird with an ABNORMAL bill...--since there ARE no true crossbills in that desert habitat.... Now, what if we are in an area of Alaska that is seeing an increasing prevalence of ABNORMAL bill shapes--cause still unknown--and we see a smallish finchlike bird with what looks like a "crossed bill"-- this is STILL likely to be a true crossbill species, but there is a slightly higher chance that in THAT area one is NOT looking at a true crossbill, but a "look-alike" crossbill that is deformed. Thus, due to the change in prevalence of the fieldmark in the BACKGROUND POPULATION-- in this latter case-- the positive predictive validity (read: tightness of true association between fieldmark and target species) of that field mark (crossed bill) will have decreased, and the observer has been fooled. Another way to say this is that the NEGATIVE predictive validity of that field mark is higher in an area where there is more than one possible associated species (true "Crossbill" species & deformed bill species).... That's probably confusing, but at least it may get us thinking about how to associate what we are doing with statistical methodology... While there is controversy within the statistics/scientific community about Bayesian logic and method, I believe that in its relatively simplified form--such as I have tried to illustrate here--it is a very useful way to talk about bird ID.... Good (vs. "Bad") Bird-IDing, everyone!! Gregg Gregg Gorton, MD Narberth, PA 19072 Homoaves [at] gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of John van der Woude Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 4:07 AM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification For me, in my breeding bird census area near Amsterdam, there is one striking example of this. We do have a few Spotted Flycatchers there, being one of the rarer breeding birds in the region. These are mostly noted by sound, and this can be enough to mark them on the map. However, I discovered that begging young Wrens (a common species of course) make a sound which is very similar to the call (not the song) of Spotted Flycatcher. So hearing the call is not enough, it should be the song (two-syllable in stead of the one-syllable call). Seeing is even better of course, but that's not easy in these marshy woodlands. John van der Woude Holland www.jvanderw.nl From: Larry Gardella Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 4:28 AM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification Yes, but I think more common birds are misidentified as rare birds than rare birds missed among common birds, partly because there are so many more common birds, many of which look different but are the same species, partly because of the hope to find something rare. Larry Gardella Montgomery, AL BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Paul Lehman interview (and other content) in the January 2012 issue of Birding From: Ted Floyd <tedfloyd57 AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 08:19:21 -0800 Hello, BirdChatters. Selected content from the January 2012 issue of Birding magazine is currently available for free PDF download from the ABA website. For example, here's an interview with birding legend Paul Lehman: http://www.aba.org/birding/v44n1p14.pdf In this interview, Lehman explains how he finds so many rare birds, he confesses to watching reruns of The Weather Channel, and he exhorts birders to get serious about "S&D" (for "status and distribution"). Or, if you'd just as soon hear from a Young Turk (and birding legend in the making?), then check out Tom Johnson's diabolical, but important and educational, "The Large, Dark Shearwater and Circular Logic": http://aba.org/birding/v44n1p56.pdf Get the full-on Table of Contents here: http://aba.org/birding/v44n1p5.pdf Ted Floyd tedfloyd57 AT hotmail.com Lafayette, Boulder County, Colorado BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: "Tangren, Gerald Vernon" <tangren AT WSU.EDU> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 15:44:10 +0000 Not that I would have ever done anything similar, but a few years back we had a reports of a Kiskadee by an established Audubon member. The bird turned out to be a cedar waxwing. She was watching it fly catch in her front yard and assumed it had to be a bird in the flycatcher family--Kiskadee was the closest thing in her bird book. On 1/31/12 7:28 PM, "Larry Gardella" wrote: > Yes, but I think more common birds are misidentified as rare birds than > rare birds missed among common birds, partly because there are so many > more common birds, many of which look different but are the same > species, partly because of the hope to find something rare. > > Larry Gardella > Montgomery, AL > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Katrina Knight wrote: > >> At 10:24 AM 01/31/2012 Al Schirmacher wrote: >>> Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average >>> birder? >>> >>> And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - >>> heard warblers - or....? >> >> I suspect that the birds most likely to be misidentified are the >> ones that people don't look at closely because they "know" >> they're common species. How many odd thrushes do we miss in >> flocks of robins? How many of the less common blackbirds are >> missed because they're in a flock of hundreds or thousands of >> the more common local species? How often do we get a quick >> glimpse of a bird and just assume it is the locally common bird >> rather than a rarity? Most of the time we're right when we do >> that, but sometimes what we expect isn't what is actually there. >> >> >> -- >> Katrina Knight >> kknight AT fastmail.fm >> Reading, PA, USA >> >> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html -- Jerry WA State University-Tree Fruit Research & Extension Center Wenatchee, WA 509-663-8181 x 231 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b (during the current phase of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation) http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/webdev/Favorites ³We have learned not to believe in anything, not to care about each other. . . . Love, friendship, mercy, humility, or forgiveness have lost their depths and dimension. . . . They represent some sort of psychological curiosity, or they appear as long-lost wanderers from faraway times.² -- Vaclav Havel (1936--2011), Czech writer and president BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: John van der Woude <jvanderw AT WORLDONLINE.NL> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 10:06:34 +0100 For me, in my breeding bird census area near Amsterdam, there is one striking example of this. We do have a few Spotted Flycatchers there, being one of the rarer breeding birds in the region. These are mostly noted by sound, and this can be enough to mark them on the map. However, I discovered that begging young Wrens (a common species of course) make a sound which is very similar to the call (not the song) of Spotted Flycatcher. So hearing the call is not enough, it should be the song (two-syllable in stead of the one-syllable call). Seeing is even better of course, but that's not easy in these marshy woodlands. John van der Woude Holland www.jvanderw.nl From: Larry Gardella Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 4:28 AM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification Yes, but I think more common birds are misidentified as rare birds than rare birds missed among common birds, partly because there are so many more common birds, many of which look different but are the same species, partly because of the hope to find something rare. Larry Gardella Montgomery, AL BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Larry Gardella <lgardellabirds AT CHARTER.NET> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 22:28:18 -0500 Yes, but I think more common birds are misidentified as rare birds than rare birds missed among common birds, partly because there are so many more common birds, many of which look different but are the same species, partly because of the hope to find something rare. Larry Gardella Montgomery, AL On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Katrina Knight wrote: > At 10:24 AM 01/31/2012 Al Schirmacher wrote: >> Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average >> birder? >> >> And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - >> heard warblers - or....? > > I suspect that the birds most likely to be misidentified are the > ones that people don't look at closely because they "know" > they're common species. How many odd thrushes do we miss in > flocks of robins? How many of the less common blackbirds are > missed because they're in a flock of hundreds or thousands of > the more common local species? How often do we get a quick > glimpse of a bird and just assume it is the locally common bird > rather than a rarity? Most of the time we're right when we do > that, but sometimes what we expect isn't what is actually there. > > > -- > Katrina Knight > kknight AT fastmail.fm > Reading, PA, USA > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Thomas and Sheri Roberts <troberts2459 AT ATLANTICBB.NET> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:55:28 -0500 How would the person know? I think you're asking which are most likley to be mis-identified. Of those you listed, all offer opportunity! Tom Roberts Somerset County, PA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Schirmacher" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 10:24 AM Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average birder? And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - heard warblers - or....? Al Schirmacher Princeton, MN Sent from my iPhone BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Bird guide for Sundarbans, India From: Bob Keener <keenerb99 AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 16:48:12 -0800 Hi All,   I am planning a trip to India this fall and will have some time to go birding a few days in the Sundarbans, a huge river delta near Kolkata.  I am looking for any leads for a good birding guide or advice for that region.   Thanks! Bob Keener 5207 Heisey Rd Shippensburg, PA 17257 717-532-9723 BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Douglas Carver <dhmcarver AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 12:02:42 -0700 Further to Laura's great post, and keying off of her comment that with the more advanced birder "they know when to hesitate" -- I once took an ornithology class offered through the Smithsonian Institution, taught by an ornithologist with the experience of decades in the field. He said on one of our field outings, In flight, it is practically impossible to tell the difference between a Cooper's Hawk and a Sharp-shinned. I would refine that to mean a female Sharpie and a male Cooper's, but I think the point stands. Knowing when to hesitate would include also knowing what birds cannot be identified by sight alone -- let them sing, or list either/or on that day's tally. Thanks, Al, for starting the thread -- an interesting discussion. Douglas Carver Albuquerque, NM On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Roger wrote: > Well, let's see now. For starters I can come up with the Medium-billed > Dowitcher, Greasser Yellowlegs or maybe the Willder Flycatcher or it's > closely related cousin the Aldow Flycatcher. All birds that unless they > speak or are in full breeding plumage I have trouble with all the time. > Being on a migration route as opposed to breeding territory doesn't help > much either. > > Roger Craik > Maple Ridge BC > > > > > On 31/01/2012 7:24 AM, Al Schirmacher wrote: > >> Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average birder? >> >> And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - heard warblers >> - or....? >> >> Al Schirmacher >> Princeton, MN >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/**birdchat/ >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/**archives/birdchat.html >> >> > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/**birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/**archives/birdchat.html > -- Dilexi iustitiam et odivi iniquitatem, propterea morior in exilio. (I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile.) -- the last words of Saint Pope Gregory VII (d. 1085) BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Irruption question From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:37:30 -0500 Sigh...you've touched a real sore spot with me. It dates back a long time, too. When I was a kid a newspaper writer quoted my mother, who did pioneer work in bird rescue and rehabilitation, as saying she tried to capture a nocturnal Great Blue Heron by going after it with a jack knife, instead of a jack light. And just recently Polar Bear expert Ian Stirling was quoted in the paper saying that when they are hungry Polar Bears don't just quietly lie down like Arctic Herons. No such species. In fact, herons are pretty absent from the arctic. If the writer had known anything about the topic at hand the species would have been correctly identified as the Arctic Hare. I wrote to The Toronto Star recently to point out that they had illustrated an article regarding Harp Seals with a photo of a Grey Seal. They ignored the letter and did not print a correction. Typical...these things aren't taken seriously within the media; when errors are made in articles about people they are corrected, especially so when folks are misnamed, but with natural history it's just not deemed to be important. We can all cite many similar problems, but I think the problem, while relatively minor when it comes to confusing or mis-using the odd word, and Pat has given excellent examples, is indicative of several problems I have with the media overall. Disclaimer: I used to write for The Toronto Star, both a weekly column and the odd feature piece, review or whatever. But as a freelancer I made a point of doing the opposite of the arrogant twit Pat mentions; I would phone my sources and read back what I had written about what they had said. I felt that I was a naturalist first and foremost, and had my own sometimes tattered reputation for accuracy to keep in mind. That didn't stop an editor from publishing a photo of an Rose-breasted Grosbeak in a column about Evening Grosbeaks, and I was still able to make mistakes on my own, but at least I had some expertise in my subject matter. The big problem was editing...the arbitrary cuts that are made to text that has otherwise been approved. The second or third column I ever wrote was about Canada's first Painted Redstart, and how long he lived. The key point, I thought, was that it was the first of its species ever known to appear in Canada, but that got cut by an editor, thus, in effect, removing the whole point of the column. As a rule, it is assumed that sports writers know something about sports; that financial and business writers have expertise in those fields. Entertainment editors and writers are usually aware of who various entertainers are and have some knowledge of show business. Religious writers know something about religion. But when it comes to nature and wildlife it is the luck of the draw; stories are typically assigned without regard to what the reporter knows, because editors literally don't get, don't understand, what there is TO know. Because of that, there is a tendency to give equal weight to differing opinions. Conflict is what sells news, and also makes it interesting, so someone who expresses a viewpoint based from solid knowledge may be "balanced" by someone who lacks such knowledge, but is still given an equal platform. At best the reason behind this methodology is laudable to the degree that it seeks to avoid bias. But it is unfortunate when editors' and writers' ignorance allows them to fail to identify unadulterated twaddle. It would be like balancing an opinion by Wayne Gretsky as to which hockey coach is best able to lead a hockey team to victory with an opinion by a financial analyst, but it happens all the time in stories relating to natural history. We can relate that state of affairs in any of several origins, including our educational system here in Canada and the U.S., at least, since they don’t even teach the basics of natural history (or do so poorly), but it's far, far more complex than that, in my opinion. Another tradition in news reporting, which Pat alludes to, is that writers are constantly warned against giving away too much of what they are going to write. There are solid reasons for that approach, of course, having to do with protecting sources, avoiding lawsuits or advance actions by people who won't want certain things published, but the reasons are often forgotten, and the rule becomes dogma unrelated to anything practical or necessary. That writer should and could have read over what he was going to submit and would have had a more accurate story as a result. Perhaps in the long run the ubiquitous nature of rapidly evolving and expanding electronic communication will tend to nullify dependence on "traditional" media for news dissemination and allow us greater freedom to speak for ourselves and get our own messages out. Sigh...but even that carries the downside related to a lack of scrutiny and editorial oversight which CAN work, when said editors, or writers, or both, are familiar with the subject at hand. Barry Barry Kent MacKay Markham, Ontario, Canada -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nancy L. Newfield Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 12:57 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Irruption question Pat et al., On 1/31/2012 11:35 AM, Pat Burden wrote: > I have always heard the term "irruption" associated with birds that > move south from the Boreal forests or the tundra into southern Canada > and the US. I also understand that this same movement might take > place across Asia and Europe. My first question is what other parts > of the world do irruptions take place in, if any? > > I just read an article that referred to the great movement of Snowy > Owls as a "mass migration." I have always considered a migration > something that happens yearly - more or less programmed into an animal > and an irruption as something that occurs as a result of either an > over population or a lack of food. I never considered the two terms > interchangeable. Your thoughts? Absolutely, I agree with your second paragraph. The problem is with the author, not with your understanding of the terms. This is a common problem with the popular press. Writers may have no knowledge of the subject about which they write and too often, editors are equally ignorant or careless. Recently, a Baton Rouge [Louisiana] newspaper carried an article about the phenomenon of hummingbirds spending the winter months in the area. Somewhat reluctantly, I agreed to permit a newspaper writer and a photographer to cover a banding session at a private home. I agreed to the deal because the local Audubon chapter was sponsoring a lecture and field trip to acquaint people with the wealth of species and individuals in the area and the chapter folks were friends and supporters. I also agreed because new reports sometimes come from such publicity. My assistant, who manages scheduling and data, offered to read the work for accuracy. He was soundly rebuffed because "No one reads my work before it is published." Needless to say, there were errors that could have been avoided. The most egregious mistake was that the writer used the word 'collect' rather than 'band' or 'tag' or any correct term. Most of us know the meaning of the term 'collect' in the scientific world, but an arrogant newspaper writer was remarkably ignorant and uncaring about real facts. I cannot say if any real harm came from the article because I know that few of the readers know the scientific meaning of the term 'collect', but I will be very cautious or uncooperative the next time I am approached. NLN -- **************************** Nancy L Newfield Casa Colibrí Metairie, LA USA http://www.casacolibri.net/ **************************** BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Roger <r_craik AT SHAW.CA> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:17:27 -0800 Well, let's see now. For starters I can come up with the Medium-billed Dowitcher, Greasser Yellowlegs or maybe the Willder Flycatcher or it's closely related cousin the Aldow Flycatcher. All birds that unless they speak or are in full breeding plumage I have trouble with all the time. Being on a migration route as opposed to breeding territory doesn't help much either. Roger Craik Maple Ridge BC On 31/01/2012 7:24 AM, Al Schirmacher wrote: > Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average birder? > > And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - heard warblers - or....? > > Al Schirmacher > Princeton, MN > > Sent from my iPhone > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Irruption question From: "Nancy L. Newfield" <nancy AT CASACOLIBRI.NET> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:57:09 -0600 Pat et al., On 1/31/2012 11:35 AM, Pat Burden wrote: > I have always heard the term "irruption" associated with birds that > move south from the Boreal forests or the tundra into southern Canada > and the US. I also understand that this same movement might take > place across Asia and Europe. My first question is what other parts > of the world do irruptions take place in, if any? > > I just read an article that referred to the great movement of Snowy > Owls as a "mass migration." I have always considered a migration > something that happens yearly - more or less programmed into an animal > and an irruption as something that occurs as a result of either an > over population or a lack of food. I never considered the two terms > interchangeable. Your thoughts? Absolutely, I agree with your second paragraph. The problem is with the author, not with your understanding of the terms. This is a common problem with the popular press. Writers may have no knowledge of the subject about which they write and too often, editors are equally ignorant or careless. Recently, a Baton Rouge [Louisiana] newspaper carried an article about the phenomenon of hummingbirds spending the winter months in the area. Somewhat reluctantly, I agreed to permit a newspaper writer and a photographer to cover a banding session at a private home. I agreed to the deal because the local Audubon chapter was sponsoring a lecture and field trip to acquaint people with the wealth of species and individuals in the area and the chapter folks were friends and supporters. I also agreed because new reports sometimes come from such publicity. My assistant, who manages scheduling and data, offered to read the work for accuracy. He was soundly rebuffed because "No one reads my work before it is published." Needless to say, there were errors that could have been avoided. The most egregious mistake was that the writer used the word 'collect' rather than 'band' or 'tag' or any correct term. Most of us know the meaning of the term 'collect' in the scientific world, but an arrogant newspaper writer was remarkably ignorant and uncaring about real facts. I cannot say if any real harm came from the article because I know that few of the readers know the scientific meaning of the term 'collect', but I will be very cautious or uncooperative the next time I am approached. NLN -- **************************** Nancy L Newfield Casa Colibrí Metairie, LA USA http://www.casacolibri.net/ **************************** BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Irruption question From: Pat Burden <tallerpat AT AOL.COM> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 12:35:45 -0500 I have always heard the term "irruption" associated with birds that move south from the Boreal forests or the tundra into southern Canada and the US. I also understand that this same movement might take place across Asia and Europe. My first question is what other parts of the world do irruptions take place in, if any? I just read an article that referred to the great movement of Snowy Owls as a "mass migration." I have always considered a migration something that happens yearly - more or less programmed into an animal and an irruption as something that occurs as a result of either an over population or a lack of food. I never considered the two terms interchangeable. Your thoughts? Thanks for the education! Pat Burden tallerpat AT aol.com BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Laura Erickson <bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:59:58 -0500 Brian Sullivan recently posted a great essay on "The Evolution of a Birder" on the ABA Blog. (http://blog.aba.org/2012/01/the-evolution-of-a-birder.html). I think in terms of this discussion, what separates an advanced birder from an intermediate birder is realizing how easy it is to misidentify certain basic birds--and the number of easily-misidentified pairs or groups of birds increases rather than decreases as we gain experience. That obviously doesn't mean experts call out fewer birds than intermediate birders, but they know when to hesitate and get that second listen in, or actually look at certain warblers singing certain song variations before ticking off the species. I suspect there are many more misidentifications by intermediate birders than by beginners, who don't trust their own judgment yet, so don't jump to quick identifications. Back in the late 80s or early 90s, I got word of a Yellow-billed Loon on Lake Superior near Duluth and jumped in my car to see it. I came to a spot up the shore from where it had been sighted, joined by three or four other "advanced" birders. We scanned the water and came upon a swimming bird off in the distance. It was pale and had a yellowish bill that seemed about right. Everyone looked at it, and everyone agreed it was our bird! But I started thinking we really should see a bit more plumage detail and get a bit better look at the bill shape, and as I scrutinized it, I suddenly realized it was an immature Double-crested Cormorant. Everyone felt extremely sheepish, and all the others insisted that none of us EVER reveal any of their names. Oh, well. Meanwhile, the real Yellow-billed Loon was a short distance down the shore, so everyone got great looks at the real thing, too. -- Laura Erickson Duluth, MN For the love, understanding, and protection of birds There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds. There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the winter.             --Rachel Carson Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: "Tangren, Gerald Vernon" <tangren AT WSU.EDU> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 17:01:47 +0000 To also add to Katrina, correct identification is related to understanding what's possible. In that regard not so out-dated information is critical, and the lone birder like many beginners and average birders may be at the disadvantage. One experience I still vividly remember from 40 years ago, perhaps more vividly than it really happened, was birding at Ocean Shores, WA. I came across a small group of shorebirds resting well back in the beach grass from the shoreline. I immediately picked out the golden plovers and identified them as Pacific golden plovers, not knowing that American golden plovers were almost as likely. Furthermore, the bird standing off to the side that I ticked as a Baird's sandpiper was actually a buff-breasted, which was not in my mind at all. On 1/31/12 8:28 AM, "Eric Jeffrey" wrote: > This probably is because my ID skills are pretty modest, but apart from the > category of unlooked for birds that Katrina mentions, the groups I seem to > find most difficult to ID are, in no particular order, sparrows, gulls and > shorebirds (and not just the peeps). Obviously, there are exceptions within > these groups, but I find them to be the ones that in the field least resemble > thier illustrations in the guides and that often have pretty subtle marks that > take time and experience to pick up. My wife and I make a good team this way, > as she has better visual recognition of field marks, and I am more likelty to > know what they signify. > > Eric Jeffrey > Falls Church, VA > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Katrina Knight > To: BIRDCHAT > Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 10:48 am > Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification > > > At 10:24 AM 01/31/2012 Al Schirmacher wrote: > Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average > birder? > > And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - > heard warblers - or....? > I suspect that the birds most likely to be misidentified are the > nes that people don't look at closely because they "know" > hey're common species. How many odd thrushes do we miss in > locks of robins? How many of the less common blackbirds are > issed because they're in a flock of hundreds or thousands of > he more common local species? How often do we get a quick > limpse of a bird and just assume it is the locally common bird > ather than a rarity? Most of the time we're right when we do > hat, but sometimes what we expect isn't what is actually there. > > - > atrina Knight > knight AT fastmail.fm > eading, PA, USA > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > rchives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html -- Jerry WA State University-Tree Fruit Research & Extension Center Wenatchee, WA 509-663-8181 x 231 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6b (during the current phase of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation) http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/webdev/Favorites ³the results of a computer model are only one flawed version of reality² BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Fwd: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification From: birding AT AOL.COM Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:53:29 -0500 John and Chatters, Not unusual to have trouble with the Redstart song. It is highly variable and often doesn't have that "hook" that helps in the identification process. The Black-and-white variation you refer to is its unaccented -ending song, used in aggressive situations. It tends to be shorter, faster and lower-pitched than the Black-and-white. If you're interested you can hear the difference on my website www.birdsongidentification.com (in the Recordings Section: V Two Notes Repeated: Softer Songs), along with the similar Bay-breasted Warbler. The Redstart's alternate song is a two-parted song (a fast series followed by a fast lower series), similar to the alternate songs of several other warblers (Yellow, Chestnut-sided, Black-and-white among others). Another common misidentification is first year males which resemble singing females, BUT females don't often sing. All the best, Ernie Jardine Pickering Ontario birding AT aol.com www.birdsongidentification.com -----Original Message----- From: John J. Collins To: BIRDCHAT Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 10:35 am Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification I am usually fooled by American Redstart which seems to imitate various ther warblers. For example, I heard one do a perfect Black-and-White arbler song once at Bashakill Marsh in New York State. Then there are the Blue Jays that imitate Red-shouldered and Red-tailed awks. If, however, the jay repeats the call a second time I will recognize hat it was a jay I just heard and not a hawk. John J. Collins aritan, NJ jcbird AT verizon.net God desires that all the world be pure in his sight. he earth should not be injured. he earth should not be destroyed." (Hildegard von Bingen) -----Original Message----- rom: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Al Schirmacher ent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 10:24 AM o: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU ubject: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average birder? And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - heard warblers - r....? Al Schirmacher rinceton, MN Sent from my iPhone irdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ rchives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ rchives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Eric Jeffrey <ecj100 AT AOL.COM> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:28:04 -0500 This probably is because my ID skills are pretty modest, but apart from the category of unlooked for birds that Katrina mentions, the groups I seem to find most difficult to ID are, in no particular order, sparrows, gulls and shorebirds (and not just the peeps). Obviously, there are exceptions within these groups, but I find them to be the ones that in the field least resemble thier illustrations in the guides and that often have pretty subtle marks that take time and experience to pick up. My wife and I make a good team this way, as she has better visual recognition of field marks, and I am more likelty to know what they signify. Eric Jeffrey Falls Church, VA -----Original Message----- From: Katrina Knight To: BIRDCHAT Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 10:48 am Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification At 10:24 AM 01/31/2012 Al Schirmacher wrote: Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average birder? And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - heard warblers - or....? I suspect that the birds most likely to be misidentified are the nes that people don't look at closely because they "know" hey're common species. How many odd thrushes do we miss in locks of robins? How many of the less common blackbirds are issed because they're in a flock of hundreds or thousands of he more common local species? How often do we get a quick limpse of a bird and just assume it is the locally common bird ather than a rarity? Most of the time we're right when we do hat, but sometimes what we expect isn't what is actually there. - atrina Knight knight AT fastmail.fm eading, PA, USA BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ rchives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: Katrina Knight <kknight AT FASTMAIL.FM> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:47:52 -0500 At 10:24 AM 01/31/2012 Al Schirmacher wrote: >Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average >birder? > >And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - >heard warblers - or....? I suspect that the birds most likely to be misidentified are the ones that people don't look at closely because they "know" they're common species. How many odd thrushes do we miss in flocks of robins? How many of the less common blackbirds are missed because they're in a flock of hundreds or thousands of the more common local species? How often do we get a quick glimpse of a bird and just assume it is the locally common bird rather than a rarity? Most of the time we're right when we do that, but sometimes what we expect isn't what is actually there. -- Katrina Knight kknight AT fastmail.fm Reading, PA, USA BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Misidentification From: "John J. Collins" <jjcbird AT VERIZON.NET> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:35:44 -0500 I am usually fooled by American Redstart which seems to imitate various other warblers. For example, I heard one do a perfect Black-and-White Warbler song once at Bashakill Marsh in New York State. Then there are the Blue Jays that imitate Red-shouldered and Red-tailed Hawks. If, however, the jay repeats the call a second time I will recognize that it was a jay I just heard and not a hawk. John J. Collins Raritan, NJ jjcbird AT verizon.net "God desires that all the world be pure in his sight. The earth should not be injured. The earth should not be destroyed." (Hildegard von Bingen) -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Al Schirmacher Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 10:24 AM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Misidentification Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average birder? And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - heard warblers - or....? Al Schirmacher Princeton, MN Sent from my iPhone BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Misidentification From: Al Schirmacher <alschirmacher AT LIVE.COM> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 09:24:06 -0600 Wonder what the field misidentification rate is for the average birder? And which are the most likely: gulls - empids - hybrids - heard warblers - or....? Al Schirmacher Princeton, MN Sent from my iPhone BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Lark Bunting at Bolsa Chica Interpretive Center Huntington Beach, CA From: john small <joutandabout AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 22:57:28 -0800 Good Afternoon birders, especially birdchatters, Sorry for the late post. But yesterday afternoon(Sunday 1-29-12), in a rare see it & go trip, I saw the Lark Bunting( my first life bird since sighting a Purple Galinule near the Whittier Narrows Nature Area in El Monte,CA in the San Gabriel Valley area of California( this for birdchatters whom are not familiar this state), adjacent to the Bolsa Chica Interpretive Center in Huntington Beach in the edge of Orange County, CA.   What I first arrived at the area where the bunting has been regularly seen, I at first thought that it would be an agonizingly long search, spotting the bird was actually easier than I thought. I located the bunting within seconds.( Talk about spot it & go) I actually shifted to different positions to get different looks at the bird, even being briefly held captive( just joking) when the bunting was foraging in the entrance area of the path where I was standing.    Other birds of note were 4 Buffleheads( 3 males, 1 female), 5 Gadwalls( 1 male, 4 females), 1 Horned Grebe, 1 Greater Yellowlegs, and of course 1 squawking Great Blue Heron.   Good Birding Everyone John Small Torrance, CA   BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Hotel/Birding in Singapore From: David Starrett <starrettda AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 22:42:25 -0600 We were just there in December and used this guide, he was excellent, though a bit pricey. Places not mentioned but also good are sungei buloh, central catchment and Palau ubin. We hit 100+ birds in 2 full days, half day at panti, rest in Singapore. Good luck! Dave > Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 03:05:43 +0000 > From: katahdinss AT COMCAST.NET > Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Hotel/Birding in Singapore > To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Hi Marcia, > > In 2010, we stayed at the Changi Village Hotel which has birding just on the grounds (Common Goldenback, Tanimbar Corella etc.) and from which we went to Panti Forest for 2 1/2 days guided by Lim Kim Seng (ibisbill AT yahoo.com ), and also with him to the Botanical Gardens and Kranji Dam. Panti was great with cripplers such as Malaysian Rail-babbler, Jambu Fruit Dove, Red-bearded Bee-eater, Rufous-collared Kingfisher, Dusky Broadbill and many other species. I will send you our Panti/Singapore trip report directly but (for others) it is also posted on Surfbirds. We booked the hotel through Booking Buddy on-line. We were en route to Sulawesi so had a lot of luggage which the hotel graciously stored for us while we went to Panti. > > Gail Mackiernan > Silver Spring, MD > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Balestri Marcia" > To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 8:37:47 PM > Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Hotel/Birding in Singapore > > My husband and I are spending 3 nights/4days in Singapore in April. Any suggestions on hotels? I would rather be nearer to good birding spots than the airport or shopping, if that makes a difference. > > I have been to the Botanical Gardens (wonderful, by the way). What else should I not miss while I am there? Any (person) guide recommendations? > ____________________ > > Marcia Balestri > Frederick, MD > mebalestri AT comcast.net > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Hotel/Birding in Singapore From: "Gail B. Mackiernan %3Ckatahdinss%40comcast.net%3E" <katahdinss AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 03:05:43 +0000 Hi Marcia, In 2010, we stayed at the Changi Village Hotel which has birding just on the grounds (Common Goldenback, Tanimbar Corella etc.) and from which we went to Panti Forest for 2 1/2 days guided by Lim Kim Seng (ibisbill AT yahoo.com ), and also with him to the Botanical Gardens and Kranji Dam. Panti was great with cripplers such as Malaysian Rail-babbler, Jambu Fruit Dove, Red-bearded Bee-eater, Rufous-collared Kingfisher, Dusky Broadbill and many other species. I will send you our Panti/Singapore trip report directly but (for others) it is also posted on Surfbirds. We booked the hotel through Booking Buddy on-line. We were en route to Sulawesi so had a lot of luggage which the hotel graciously stored for us while we went to Panti. Gail Mackiernan Silver Spring, MD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Balestri Marcia" To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 8:37:47 PM Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Hotel/Birding in Singapore My husband and I are spending 3 nights/4days in Singapore in April. Any suggestions on hotels? I would rather be nearer to good birding spots than the airport or shopping, if that makes a difference. I have been to the Botanical Gardens (wonderful, by the way). What else should I not miss while I am there? Any (person) guide recommendations? ____________________ Marcia Balestri Frederick, MD mebalestri AT comcast.net BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Hotel/Birding in Singapore From: Balestri Marcia <mebalestri AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:37:47 -0500 My husband and I are spending 3 nights/4days in Singapore in April. Any suggestions on hotels? I would rather be nearer to good birding spots than the airport or shopping, if that makes a difference. I have been to the Botanical Gardens (wonderful, by the way). What else should I not miss while I am there? Any (person) guide recommendations? ____________________ Marcia Balestri Frederick, MD mebalestri AT comcast.net BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Whoopers at Aransas From: Judy Bass <judybass AT EARTHLINK.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:51:07 -0800 We'll be visiting that area for the first time in late February, and I'm wondering if we'll be able to see cranes while driving around the refuge, or do we neeed to take one of the boat trips? And if it's a boat, can anyone recommend one of the companies? Thanks, Judy Bass Altadena, CA BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: gallinaceous bird trips soon approaching From: Rebecca Kosten <kostenrebecca AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 13:08:02 -0700 Hello birders, That time of year is soon approaching again, gallinaceous bird searches. The Colorado Birding Society has a “Grouse Information” link on their website: http://coloradobirdingsociety.net16.net The page offers information on various organizations that offer tours to leks around Colorado. The spaces for these tours are limited and fill up quickly. There is also information on a self-guiding grouse (Chicken-like Birds) trip around the state. CoBus offers to lead some of these trips also. Birds found with a little good fortune include (in order we search for them) White-tailed Ptarmigan Greater Sage-Grouse Sharp-tailed Grouse Chukar Blue Grouse Gunnison Sage-Grouse Scaled Quail Lesser Prairie-Chicken Northern Bobwhite Greater Prairie-Chicken Spring in coming! Directions to birding spots on CoBus website: http://coloradobirdingsociety.net16.net Rebecca Kosten, Colorado Birding Society Denver, CO Contact CoBus/Report Interesting Birds: 303-324-7994 Subscribe to "cobirders AT yahoogroups.com cobirders-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com Read "cobirders" at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cobirders/messages BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Howell: Petrels From: Rick Wright <birdaz AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:54:19 -0500 A brief, informal review of Steve Howell's new photographic guide to North American seabirds is up at the ABA Blog, http://blog.aba.org. -- Rick Wright Little Falls, NJ Senior Leader, WINGS http://birdingnewjersey.com BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Bird books From: Douglas Carver <dhmcarver AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:44:20 -0700 I spotted this entry today on an excellent (and often bird-focussed) science blog in The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/grrlscientist/2012/jan/29/1 Birders often are book people, in my experience. Which could be argued is curious, as one tends to associate the former with the outdoors, and the latter with the indoors. Perhaps it is something about the stillness required in both avocations. Good birding -- and reading! Douglas Carver Albuquerque, NM -- Dilexi iustitiam et odivi iniquitatem, propterea morior in exilio. (I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile.) -- the last words of Saint Pope Gregory VII (d. 1085) BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: BirdNote - last week, and the week of Jan. 29, 2012 From: Ellen Blackstone <ellen AT 123IMAGINE.NET> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 06:18:43 -0800 Hello, BirdChatters! Last week, BirdNote aired: * Gliding with Tropicbirds http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=991 * Piracy Among Raptors http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=525 * Why Arctic Terns Have Short Beaks http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=1015 * Feeding Frenzy at Ding Darling NWR http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=2164 * An Owl Is Mobbed - Northern Pygmy-Owl http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=530 * Ducks Unlimited Celebrates Its 75th Anniversary http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=2165 * Cerulean Warblers Link Conservation on Two Continents -- partnership with American Bird Conservancy http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=1852 Check out the photos and links accompanying next week's shows: http://bit.ly/AAbfJs ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Find us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/BirdNote/38299689818 ... or Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/BirdNoteRadio ============================================================= BirdNote is available by podcast: -- http://feeds.feedburner.com/birdnote/OYfP -- http://tinyurl.com/http-ax-itunes-apple-com-us You can listen to the mp3, see a photo, and read the transcript on the website. http://www.birdnote.org All episodes are in the archive. http://birdnote.org/kplu-archive.cfm Thanks for listening! Ellen Blackstone, BirdNote BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: RFI: Switzerland - Alpine Accentor, Aletsch Glacier/Forest - Bearded Reedling From: Larry Gardella <lgardellabirds AT CHARTER.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:04:58 -0500 Tom, Have you considered a trip to Turkey? Alpine Accentor right near Caspian Snowcock, Radde's Accentor, Snow Finch, Wallcreeper; and then Bearded Reedling not far from there after you come down the mountain, along with Rose-colored Starling. Larry Gardella Montgomery, AL On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Tom Arny wrote: > I've been trying to plan a birding trip to Switzerland, targeting > Alpine Accentor and Bearded Reedling. Despite extensive searches on > Google, I'm having difficulty finding info that is recent or for the > time I am interested in traveling (April-May). I have Sacchi, et. > al. "Where to Watch Birds in Switz.." but that is old (1999). > I have a few specific questions: > 1) Does anyone on this list know where I can get current info about > the likelihood of seeing Bearded Reedling at Fanel? > 2) Similarly, does anyone have suggestions for seeing Alpine Accentor > near Aletsch? I've gotten distant views of them from the upper tram > station on the Gornergrat, but assume they would be much lower in > April or May. > 3) Alternatively, does anyone know the likelihood of seeing the > reedling near Lake Neusiedl in Austria? Several trip reports that I > found on the web mention the reedlings at that location, but again, > these reports are old or not very specific. > 4) Finally, does anyone on the list know anything about > accommodations near Aletsch? > I will try to post a similar message on one of the European > listservs, but thought I'd try this group first. > Thank you for any suggestions. > > Tom Arny > tarny AT theriver.com > Box 545, Patagonia, AZ > USA > 85624 > > > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: RFI: Switzerland - Alpine Accentor, Aletsch Glacier/Forest - Bearded Reedling From: Tom Arny <tarny AT THERIVER.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:43:10 -0700 I've been trying to plan a birding trip to Switzerland, targeting Alpine Accentor and Bearded Reedling. Despite extensive searches on Google, I'm having difficulty finding info that is recent or for the time I am interested in traveling (April-May). I have Sacchi, et. al. "Where to Watch Birds in Switz.." but that is old (1999). I have a few specific questions: 1) Does anyone on this list know where I can get current info about the likelihood of seeing Bearded Reedling at Fanel? 2) Similarly, does anyone have suggestions for seeing Alpine Accentor near Aletsch? I've gotten distant views of them from the upper tram station on the Gornergrat, but assume they would be much lower in April or May. 3) Alternatively, does anyone know the likelihood of seeing the reedling near Lake Neusiedl in Austria? Several trip reports that I found on the web mention the reedlings at that location, but again, these reports are old or not very specific. 4) Finally, does anyone on the list know anything about accommodations near Aletsch? I will try to post a similar message on one of the European listservs, but thought I'd try this group first. Thank you for any suggestions. Tom Arny tarny AT theriver.com Box 545, Patagonia, AZ USA 85624 BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Birds of Prey on new US postal stamp From: Patricia Rossi <circus_cyaneus AT VERIZON.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:55:35 -0700 Greetings! The US Post Offic has issued Birds of Prey stamps for 85 cent postage (price for single-piece retail First-Class Mail weighing more than two ounces and up to and including three ounces). The cost is $4.25 for 5 stamps depicting one of each: the northern goshawk (Accipiter gentilis), peregrine falcon (Falco peregrinus), golden eagle (Aquila chrysaetos), osprey (Pandion haliaetus), and northern harrier (Circus cyaneus). I just purchased them at my local post office near Phila, PA. I believe they were released on January 20, 2012. The hawks are shown in facial portraits. The USPS website has photos: https://www.usps.com/ Patricia Rossi Levittown, PA circus_cyaneus AT verizon.net BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: ABA breeding bird list From: Wayne Weber <contopus AT TELUS.NET> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:37:11 -0800 Richard et al., Yes, there is such a list, but it's not available for free on the Internet. It's in a book called the "ABA Checklist: Birds of the Continental United States and Canada" (Seventh edition), and is available for a few dollars from Buteo Books. This is a 200-page book and also includes a tremendous amount of information about the status and occurrences of rare species in the ABA checklist area. People should not expect to find all kinds of information for free on the Internet. It took the 8 authors of this checklist thousands of hours of research to put the book together, and no one should expect to get this kind of information for free. Wayne C. Weber Delta, BC contopus AT telus.net -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard Tkachuck Sent: January-25-12 7:06 AM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDCHAT] ABA breeding bird list Is there a list of birds breeding in the ABA area? I have found the list for all birds seen, but would like the more restrictive list. Thanks, Richard Tkachuck Locke, NY BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Recently at North American Birding From: Greg Neise <gregneise AT ILBIRDS.COM> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:00:18 -0700 Hi all, Recent posts at North American Birding include... The Two Fisted Birdwatcher contemplates Anachronisms and Woodpeckers, "...for whatever it’s worth, here’s a piece about changing times and a really cool woodpecker." http://bit.ly/zDHLVs I delve into a possibly new way to identify Selasphorus hummingbirds, that I discovered while taking very close-up pictures of the Chicago-area "mystery" hummer last month. (It's a mystery no more ... it turned out to be a hatch-year female Rufous, which stunned some people, including myself.) http://bit.ly/zywNos Fraker has a very close encounter with a Harlan's Hawk: http://bit.ly/x73EnA Fraker also shares one of his famous cannonball runs with us (5 posts)—this time from Illinois to Boston and back, stopping for a Black-headed Gull in Ohio. Dave Dolan chimes in about his favorite CBC in Texas, Tim O'Connell encounters a Snowy Owl in Oklahoma, and eBird urges us to get into some quiet territory. All that and more at NABb: http://www.nabirding.com/ ...and as long as we're talking about blog posts, I think this one at the ABA blog by Brian Sullivan is required reading: http://bit.ly/xhKapJ -greg neise Berwyn, IL Editor, North American Birding Admin, Illinois Birders' Forum Web Developer, American Birding Association BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Dunlap: In the Field, Among the Feathered From: Rick Wright <birdaz AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:52:33 -0500 A brief, informal review of Thomas Dunlap's history of American birding is now 'up' at http://blog.aba.org . -- Rick Wright Little Falls, NJ Senior Leader, WINGS http://birdingnewjersey.com BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Balkins From: John van der Woude <jvanderw AT WORLDONLINE.NL> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:28:39 +0100 hello if I may join in from the other side of the Atlantic. For us in Europe there is no doubt which field guide to use in all of Europe, also the east. It's the Svensson, Zetterström, Mullarney Birds of Europe, 2nd edition indeed. In the USA online for sale for only 20 dollar, a bargain with all those excellent plates. Even if you don't go there, it's great to have it at home. John van der Woude Holland From: robert agajeenian Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 2:40 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Balkins Yes, the Svensson Mullarney et al. is wonderful, but the Collins Birds of Europe by Heinzel, Fitter et al. is also not bad. Please check online, too, for the most important places to go. All the countries of the area are spectacular, full of historical, artistic, and natuaral beauties. Enjoy yourself. The people are working very hard to develop the best possible tourism they can. Bob Agajeenian Trenton MI On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Eric Jeffrey wrote: > There is an out of print field guide to the birds of the Balkans (I assume > Balkins is a typo) by Simeonov. The text is in one of the Balkan languages, > I think Bulgarian, but there are English names. It can probably be found > through one of the search sites such as abebooks. Otherwise the second > edition of the Europe guide by Svensson, Mullarney, et al is the best guide > for Europe. > > Eric Jeffrey > Falls Church VA > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 25, 2012, at 7:53 PM, Katharine Mills wrote: > > > Hi Chatters, > > I will be traveling to the Balkins in April of 2013. I am looking > > for suggestions on field guides. Thanks in advance > > Kathy Mills > > Holden, MA > > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: RFI Santiago, Chile From: Linda Lee Baker <llbaker AT AOL.COM> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 07:15:51 -0700 David-- I spent a couple of days birding in the Santiago area with a wonderful guide. Michel Sallaberry is a professor of ornithology in Chile, but is extremely down-to-earth & great to be with. He also knows the area & speaks English. His contact information is msallabe AT uchile.cl Michel was recommended to me by Victor Emanuel Nature Tours. He does occasional guiding for them. Hope this helps you. Please let me know, if you contact him. Linda Lee Baker Bonita Springs, Florida USA LLBaker AT aol.com BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Balkins From: robert agajeenian <ragajeenian AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:40:44 -0500 Yes, the Svensson Mullarney et al. is wonderful, but the Collins Birds of Europe by Heinzel, Fitter et al. is also not bad. Please check online, too, for the most important places to go. All the countries of the area are spectacular, full of historical, artistic, and natuaral beauties. Enjoy yourself. The people are working very hard to develop the best possible tourism they can. Bob Agajeenian Trenton MI On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Eric Jeffrey wrote: > There is an out of print field guide to the birds of the Balkans (I assume > Balkins is a typo) by Simeonov. The text is in one of the Balkan languages, > I think Bulgarian, but there are English names. It can probably be found > through one of the search sites such as abebooks. Otherwise the second > edition of the Europe guide by Svensson, Mullarney, et al is the best guide > for Europe. > > Eric Jeffrey > Falls Church VA > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 25, 2012, at 7:53 PM, Katharine Mills wrote: > > > Hi Chatters, > > I will be traveling to the Balkins in April of 2013. I am looking > > for suggestions on field guides. Thanks in advance > > Kathy Mills > > Holden, MA > > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Balkins From: Eric Jeffrey <ecj100 AT AOL.COM> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:22:47 -0500 There is an out of print field guide to the birds of the Balkans (I assume Balkins is a typo) by Simeonov. The text is in one of the Balkan languages, I think Bulgarian, but there are English names. It can probably be found through one of the search sites such as abebooks. Otherwise the second edition of the Europe guide by Svensson, Mullarney, et al is the best guide for Europe. Eric Jeffrey Falls Church VA Sent from my iPhone On Jan 25, 2012, at 7:53 PM, Katharine Mills wrote: > Hi Chatters, > I will be traveling to the Balkins in April of 2013. I am looking > for suggestions on field guides. Thanks in advance > Kathy Mills > Holden, MA > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Hilton Pond 01/17/12 (Bathroom Bat) From: "Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" <research AT HILTONPOND.ORG> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:02:44 -0500 Most evenings spring through fall we can look out over our property and watch bats swooping through the air catching insects; that seldom happens after first frost. Thus, we were a mite surprised "This Week at Hilton Pond" to find one of these winged mammals as a January visitor to an unusual location in our bathroom. To learn more about our encounter with this mid-winter chiropteran, please visit our photo essay for 17-25 January 2012; there are some interesting bat close-ups you might not have seen before. The installment is at http://www.hiltonpond.org/ThisWeek120117.html While there don't forget to scroll down for our list, albeit paltry, of birds banded or recaptured during the period, as well as miscellaneous nature notes about bird scarcity, some waterfowl that came calling, and a word about January precipitation. Happy Nature Watching! BILL ========= RESEARCH PROGRAM c/o BILL HILTON JR. Executive Director Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History 1432 DeVinney Road, York, South Carolina 29745 USA office & cell (803) 684-5852 fax (803) 684-0255 Please visit our web sites (courtesy of Comporium.net): Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History at http://www.hiltonpond.org "Operation RubyThroat: The Hummingbird Project" at http://www.rubythroat.org ================== BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Balkins From: Katharine Mills <gkmills AT CHARTER.NET> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:53:08 -0500 Hi Chatters, I will be traveling to the Balkins in April of 2013. I am looking for suggestions on field guides. Thanks in advance Kathy Mills Holden, MA BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: RFI Santiago, Chile From: "David M. Gascoigne" <bateleur27 AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:04:30 -0500 We will be returning from Santiago on Saturday 18 February, but our flight does not depart until 21:45 so we have a whole day to kill. I have checked out a couple of local birding tours but the cost for the day is prohibitive (around $750.00). I am wondering whether anyone knows of a local birder, or bird pal who might be interested in birding with us for the day. Ideally we could take our luggage with us from the hotel and have someone drop us off at the airport, but specific details could be worked out. David M. GascoigneWaterloo, ONblog: www.travelswithbirds.blogspot.com BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Chicago Snowy Owl rehab TV news report From: "B.G. Sloan" <bgsloan2 AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:19:59 -0800 From Chicago's Channel 5 (NBC). It's only a minute and a half in length, but it's interesting:   http://bit.ly/yPAXbm   Bernie Sloan Milwaukee, WI BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: ABA breeding bird list From: Richard Tkachuck <rictkalist AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 10:05:31 -0500 Is there a list of birds breeding in the ABA area? I have found the list for all birds seen, but would like the more restrictive list. Thanks, Richard Tkachuck Locke, NY BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Dead bird ID challenge - follow-up From: "B.G. Sloan" <bgsloan2 AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:29:50 -0800 Just realized I've been remiss in reporting the responses to the dead bird ID challenge I issued to a couple of birding e-mail lists two months ago. I received several dozen replies and the bulk of the respondents tentatively identified the bird's remains as Horned Grebe (which was my initial guess). A few other folks thought Eared Grebe, but they were from areas where Eared Grebes are more common than around here. And then there were several other suggested species that didn't really match the habitat. If you are curious, my original post follows... Bernie Sloan Milwaukee ----------------------------------------------------------------- (Warning: If you're squeamish, do NOT click on the links in this posting.) I ran across what remained of a dead bird today in Milwaukee's Lakeshore State Park. Actually, what remained was a bloody head and some scattered feathers. Looked to have been the victim of some sort of bird of prey. I've been trying to figure out the species of the deceased bird, and I think I might have a preliminary ID. But I was wondering if others might recognise it. (Location of the bird was the Milwaukee lakefront, maybe 40 feet from the Lake Michigan shoreline, in a small lakeside prairie park). * First photo of the bird head (the red coloration appears to be fresh blood): http://www.flickr.com/photos/14463444 AT N07/6385504111/in/photostream * More of a closeup: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14463444 AT N07/6385507669/in/photostream * Shot of the dead bird next to my shoe, for perspective. I'm estimating that the bill is an inch long: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14463444 AT N07/6385512047/in/photostream * A few feathers from the bird: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14463444 AT N07/6385516307/in/photostream Thanks in advance for any help in ID'ing this bird! Bernie Sloan Milwaukee, WI BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/ Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html