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Updated on Sunday, September 14 at 03:33 PM EST
The most recently received Mail is at the top.


Golden-winged Sunbirds,©BirdQuest

14 Sep Hilton Pond 09/01/14 (New York Roadside Redux) ["Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" ]
13 Sep BirdNote, last week & the week of Sept. 14, 2014 [Ellen Blackstone ]
12 Sep Re: Predation on hummingbirds []
12 Sep Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDCHAT] Predation on hummingbirds []
12 Sep Re: Predation in Hummingbirds [Laura Erickson ]
12 Sep Re: [EXTERNAL] [BIRDCHAT] Predation in Hummingbirds by Roadrunner ["Gorton, Gregg" ]
12 Sep Re: Predation in Hummingbirds [Jim ]
12 Sep Predation in Hummingbirds by Roadrunner [Jack Daynes ]
12 Sep Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDCHAT] Predation in Hummingbirds ["Gorton, Gregg" ]
12 Sep Re: Predation in Hummingbirds [Arie Gilbert ]
12 Sep Re: Predation in Hummingbirds [Jim ]
12 Sep Re: Predation in Hummingbirds [Roger ]
12 Sep Re: Predation in Hummingbirds [Dan Kaiser ]
12 Sep Re: Predation in Hummingbirds [Laura Erickson ]
12 Sep Re: Predation on hummingbirds []
12 Sep Re: Predation in Hummingbirds []
12 Sep Re: Predation in Hummingbirds []
12 Sep Re: Predation in Hummingbirds [Arie Gilbert ]
12 Sep Predation in Hummingbirds [Ken Bergman ]
12 Sep Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDCHAT] Predation on hummingbirds ["Gorton, Gregg" ]
11 Sep Re: Predation on hummingbirds [Joseph Morlan ]
11 Sep Re: Predation on hummingbirds [David Starrett ]
11 Sep Predation on hummingbirds [Laura Erickson ]
6 Sep World Shorebird Day ["R.D. Everhart" ]
6 Sep World Shorebird Day ["R.D. Everhart" ]
6 Sep BirdNote, last week & the week of Sept. 7, 2014 [Ellen Blackstone ]
4 Sep Sat. 6 September, World Shorebirds Day [Chuck & Lillian ]
4 Sep Birding Community E-bulletin - September 2014 [Barbara Volkle and Steve Moore ]
4 Sep OOOPS....RE: [BIRDCHAT] Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump as she soars over open seas: picture ["Barry K. MacKay" ]
4 Sep Re: Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump as she soars over open seas: picture ["Barry K. MacKay" ]
4 Sep Re: Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump as she soars over open seas: picture [Alvaro Jaramillo ]
4 Sep Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump as she soars over open seas: picture [Devorah the Ornithologist ]
3 Sep before there were none: what were those flocks of passenger pigeons like? [Devorah the Ornithologist ]
2 Sep Re: a book you may want to read [Richard Carlson ]
2 Sep errol fuller's newly-published book about passenger pigeons [Devorah the Ornithologist ]
1 Sep Click here for just a sense of what we lost the last of, 100 yrs ago today ["Barry K. MacKay" ]
1 Sep A feathered river across the sky [Devorah the Ornithologist ]
30 Aug BirdNote, last week & the week of Aug. 31, 2014 [Ellen Blackstone ]
30 Aug About Martha (passenger pigeon) [Devorah the Ornithologist ]
29 Aug Secrets of animal camouflage research (video) [Devorah the Ornithologist ]
28 Aug Hilton Pond 08/16/14 (Late August Walkabout) ["Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" ]
28 Aug Ruby-throated Hummingbird No. 5,000 ["Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" ]
27 Aug A birding video game you'll love [Devorah the Ornithologist ]
25 Aug pelagic birding from a cruise ship [ ]
25 Aug Re: Pelagic Birding On a Cruise Ship, Part 2 of 2 [Richard Carlson ]
25 Aug Pelagic Birding On a Cruise Ship, Part 1 of 2 [MM ]
25 Aug Pelagic Birding On a Cruise Ship, Part 2 of 2 [MM ]
24 Aug Special 6-week project at EHN.org on bird environmental health science [JPMyers ]
23 Aug BirdNote, last week & the week of Aug. 24, 2014 [Ellen Blackstone ]
22 Aug a bird-themed citizen science video game [Devorah the Ornithologist ]
20 Aug 1st World Shorebirds Day, 6 September [Gyorgy Szimuly ]
19 Aug Fall Migration Banding ["R.D. Everhart" ]
19 Aug New River Hummingbird Festival (23 Aug) ["Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" ]
19 Aug Hilton Pond 08/01/14 (Truth About Ruby-throats) ["Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" ]
18 Aug 9th Supplement to 6th edition of the Clements Checklist! [dmark ]
18 Aug Birding Community E-bulletin - August 2014 [Barbara Volkle and Steve Moore ]
16 Aug BirdNote, last week & the week of Aug. 17, 2014 [Ellen Blackstone ]
14 Aug Competition for ecological niches limits evolution of new songbirds [Devorah the Ornithologist ]
12 Aug Petrel [Al Schirmacher ]
11 Aug "petrel" [Rick Wright ]
11 Aug Re: "petrel" [Eric Jeffrey ]
11 Aug Re: "petrel" ["Barry K. MacKay" ]
11 Aug Re: "petrel" [Eric Jeffrey ]
11 Aug Re: "petrel" ["Barry K. MacKay" ]
11 Aug Re: "petrel" [Rick Wright ]
11 Aug Re: "petrel" [Elizabeth Dodd ]
11 Aug Re: "petrel" [Alvaro Jaramillo ]
11 Aug "petrel" [Rick Wright ]
11 Aug Re: "dadin" [Laura Erickson ]
11 Aug "dadin" [Rick Wright ]
10 Aug Re: "petrel" [Jerry Friedman ]
10 Aug Re: "petrel" [Alvaro Jaramillo ]
10 Aug Re: "petrel" [Alvaro Jaramillo ]
10 Aug Re: "petrel" [Laura Erickson ]
10 Aug Re: "petrel" ["Spector, David (Biology)" ]
10 Aug Re: "petrel" ["sandfalcon1 ." ]

Subject: Hilton Pond 09/01/14 (New York Roadside Redux)
From: "Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" <research AT HILTONPOND.ORG>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:04:13 -0400
In late August I wandered north for several reasons, eventually alighting on 
the shores of the St. Lawrence River--a special locale I've visited before but 
never in late summer. As the 1-12 Sep 2014 installment of "This week at Hilton 
Pond" I offer a photo essay about the proliferation of roadside flora I found 
in and around Morristown NY. To view, please visit 

http://hiltonpond.org/ThisWeek140901.html
(Note also my mention of the variety of pollinators that assure the plants' 
productivity.) 


While there don't forget to scroll down for a list of birds banded during the 
period--including a big bunch of Ruby-throated Hummingbirds. 


Happy (Late Summer) Nature Watching!

BILL

Please "Like" our new Facebook pages at http://www.facebook.com/HiltonPond for 
timely updates on nature topics, 

and for info about hummingbirds at http://www.facebook.com/rubythroats

Follow us on Twitter  AT hiltonpond
=========

RESEARCH PROGRAM
c/o BILL HILTON JR., D.Sci.
Executive Director
Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History
1432 DeVinney Road, York, South Carolina 29745 USA
office & cell (803) 684-5852

Please visit our web sites (courtesy of Comporium.net):
Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History at http://www.hiltonpond.org
"Operation RubyThroat: The Hummingbird Project" at http://www.rubythroat.org

==================

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Subject: BirdNote, last week & the week of Sept. 14, 2014
From: Ellen Blackstone <ellen AT 123IMAGINE.NET>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 08:26:07 -0700
Hello, BirdChat,
-------------------------------------------------
Last week, BirdNote aired:

* Cedar Waxwings - Sleek and Handsome
http://bit.ly/WY47yF

* Snowy Egrets - Killer Hats
http://bit.ly/19IXt09

* Pale Male - New York City's Famous Red-tail
http://bit.ly/Un7Yzv

* Counting Millions of Raptors Over Veracruz
-- With Scott Weidensaul
http://bit.ly/1dyIUPz

* Swifts Roost in Chimneys
http://bit.ly/WY4xFs

* Northern Gannets Plunge-Dive
http://bit.ly/1wjLPEN

* The Greatest Bird Rescue Ever - The 2000 MV Treasure spill
http://bit.ly/15RiH8S

------------------------------------------------------------
View the photos and links for next week's shows: http://bit.ly/YGfOMh
------------------------------------------------------------
Find us on Facebook. Search for birdnote.
... or Follow us on Twitter. Search for birdnoteradio
=========================================
You can listen to the mp3, see a photo, and read the transcript for a
show, plus sign up for weekly mail or the podcast, and find related
resources on the website. http://www.birdnote.org You'll find 1200+
episodes and more than 500 videos in the archive.

Thanks for listening!
Ellen Blackstone, BirdNote

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Subject: Re: Predation on hummingbirds
From: mitch AT UTOPIANATURE.COM
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:28:27 -0700
Hi Laura, and all,

Great thread......   hopefully this will spread the right word
about the subject.  Great blog post Laura.

I have seen those pesky Roadrunner velociraptors take a dozen hummers
right out my window, feeders were 8' off the ground, I was exhausted
running back and forth chasing them away.  In the winter they
switched to juicy Chipping Sparrows.

I have seen Eastern Screech-Owl and Sharp-shinned Hawk hit my feeders
making failed attempts on hummers, away from feeders I've seen attempts
to take hummers by Summer Tanager and Brown-crested Flycatcher, and
perhaps other Myiarchus as well.

Joe Morlan's point about camo in females is fascinating, and glad
someone
straightened out the recluse web story too.  ;)  Widow webs are the very
strong
ones (in buildings) and outdoors those big Orb Weavers surely catch
hummers.

Mitch

Mitch Heindel
Utopia, TX

On 2014-09-11 06:58, Laura Erickson wrote:
> I've been reading a book published in 2014 that based a whole chapter
> on a
> point from a 1985 paper that had concluded that “hummingbirds in North
> America do not have ‘natural predators’ in the usual sense.” That
> seemed so
> patently ridiculous that I looked into the original paper, and wrote
> about
> it on my blog yesterday. I don't usually post blog links, but this one
> might be interesting for some of you. I hope I wasn't too
> uncharitable--I
> was simply trying to clear up what seems to me a serious misconception.
>
> http://lauraerickson.blogspot.com/2014/09/predation-and-hummingbirds.html
>
> Best, Laura
> --
> --
> Laura Erickson

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Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDCHAT] Predation on hummingbirds
From: PiranhaFem AT AOL.COM
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:28:04 -0400
Are those enormous praying mantis that catch and eat hummers at feeders  
non-native to the Americas?
 
--Maureen Hickey
Tucson, AZ
 
 
In a message dated 9/12/2014 7:19:53 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
Gregg.Gorton AT VA.GOV writes:

Hummers  are likely preyed on by small owls-- at least in the Neotropics.  
Some  species respond rapidly to imitations of a Ferruginous Pygmy-owl's 
call.  That's the way Bob Ridgley rediscovered the Honduran Emerald 10 years, 
or so,  ago--according to my friend Jan Gordon and her late husband, Ken, who 
were  there with Bob at the time.  Of course, such predatory owls would be 
the  species that hunt diurnally. I wonder if they sometimes pick hummers 
off the  nest, as well as in the air...

Gregg Gorton
Philadelphia,  PA
Homoaves [at] gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From:  National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line)  
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Joseph Morlan
Sent: Friday,  September 12, 2014 1:15 AM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject:  [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDCHAT] Predation on hummingbirds

I attended a  seminar a few years ago in which it was pointed out that 
hummingbirds on  Caribbean Islands which have few or no predators also have 
females which  resemble the bright males instead of being dull colored.

The  traditional view is that the males have evolved a bright plumage via 
sexual  selection.  It makes them attractive to females.  However, the  
hypothesis in this case was that sexual dimorphism evolved to protect females  
from predation at the nest.  In the absence of predation there is no need  for 
the females to be cryptically colored.  Under this view, the bright  
coloration of hummingbirds is a primitive trait rather than derived in response 

to sexual selection.

If so, this suggests that predation in  hummingbirds is important enough 
that it has effected their evolution in a  rather profound way.

On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:31:33 -0500, David Starrett  
wrote:

>Interesting.  I could  increase their number by 25%.  I have felt bad 
serving hummers up as food for a local Cooper's hawk who takes advantage of the 

hors d'oeuvres  I so  graciously attract for him flying around the feeders 
in late summer.  He  takes them off to munch elsewhere in what I assume is a 
quick  gulp.
>Dave
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>David  Starrett
>
>Cape Girardeau,  MO
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 11 Sep  2014 08:58:10 -0500
>> From: bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM
>>  Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Predation on hummingbirds
>> To:  BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>>
>> I've been reading a book  published in 2014 that based a whole chapter
>> on a point from a  1985 paper that had concluded that “hummingbirds in
>> North America  do not have ‘natural predators’ in the usual sense.”
>> That seemed  so patently ridiculous that I looked into the original
>> paper, and  wrote about it on my blog yesterday. I don't usually post
>> blog  links, but this one might be interesting for some of you. I hope
>> I  wasn't too uncharitable--I was simply trying to clear up what seems 
to me a  serious misconception.
>>
>>  http://lauraerickson.blogspot.com/2014/09/predation-and-hummingbirds.
>>  html
>>
>> Best, Laura
>> --
>>  --
>> Laura Erickson
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
"It  turns out we're very good at not seeing things" - Jack Hitt

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Subject: Re: Predation in Hummingbirds
From: Laura Erickson <bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:23:23 -0500
The first sentence,  "Probably not a significant risk for adult birds in
temperate zone" references Miller and Gass, 1985 (Miller, R. S. and C. L.
Gass. 1985. Survivorship in hummingbirds: is predation important? Auk
102:175-178.) makes direct reference to the paper I'm criticizing.

I cannot find a single other study than Miller and Gass that concludes that
predation on hummingbirds is insignificant. That paper is referenced in
other papers, and the BNA summarizes what is known about species in the
literature, so the BNA account of course included that. But if Miller and
Gass is indeed the only study that concludes that predation is
insignificant, that conclusion is very poorly supported. Hummers are
hyper-vigilant against competitors, which I'm sure also enables them to
detect and avoid predators. Every species has at least some anti-predatory
mechanisms, after all. But predators manage to take even well-protected
species, including hummingbirds.

Best, Laura

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Jim  wrote:

> Here's what BNA on-line has to say about predation on Ruby-throated
> Hummingbirds:
>
> "Probably not a significant risk for adult birds in temperate zone. . ..
> Known predators of adults include Loggerhead Shrike. . . and Sharp-shinned
> Hawk. . .. Most common predator is probably house cat. . ..When faced with
> attack from aerial predators, adults flee into dense cover. Blue Jay . .
> .seen to kill and eat nestling Ruby-throated Hummingbird. . .; frequency of
> this occurrence unknown. Predation on eggs unreported. During mobbing of
> Blue Jay by birds of several other species, a single female came in and
> hovered nearby but did not vocalize or otherwise participate."
>
> I know RTHUs are very responsive to Eastern Screech-Owl playback, though
> these are not mentioned as predators.  I've also read Black-chinned
> Hummingbirds appear to intentionally build there nests close to Cooper's
> Hawk nests--presumably because it keeps other creatures away from the
> hummer nests.
>
> Jim M.
> Rockville, MD
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>



--
--
Laura Erickson

For the love, understanding, and protection of birds

There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
winter.

            --Rachel Carson

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

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Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [BIRDCHAT] Predation in Hummingbirds by Roadrunner
From: "Gorton, Gregg" <Gregg.Gorton AT VA.GOV>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:58:20 -0400
Chatters,

FYI, folks are adding comments about things that were thoroughly covered by 
Laura in her blog post that started this thread . I humbly suggest going back 
to that original post and reading her piece--it is well worth it, being a very 
nicely done summary of the extant literature on this topic! 


Best,

Gregg

Gregg Gorton
Phila, PA
Homoaves [at] gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jack Daynes 

Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 12:51 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [BIRDCHAT] Predation in Hummingbirds by Roadrunner

In 2003, while visiting Bosque del Apache I spent some time at the visitor 
center catching images of hummingbirds at their feeders. I came to learn that 
at least one of the local roadrunners had learned to make regular meals of the 
hummingbirds. The feeders were only about four feet off the ground, so it we 
pretty easy pickings for the roadrunner. It would crouch under the feeder and 
wait for a victim to perch, there spring up and snatch the hummer for an easy 
meal. 


Very poor image (but proves the action) at:
http://www.shadetree-imaging.com/ImageGallery.aspx?moid=11901&hr=1

After witnessing the action, I spoke to the docents inside. They knew of the 
activity, but when I suggested either raising the feeder higher or hanging a 
screen below the feeder to remove the straight line attack option, they seemed 
only interested in cursing the roadrunner. The roadrunner was just taking 
advantage of the opportunity that they provided. IMO, humans created the 
situation and should have taken responsibility. 


Be well,

--
-- Jack --
==================================

Wildlife Photography with
Emphasis on Birds
==================================
858-442-1907
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32 57'  W 117 04'
At 508' Elevation
==================================


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Subject: Re: Predation in Hummingbirds
From: Jim <epiphenomenon9 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:51:21 -0400
Here's what BNA on-line has to say about predation on Ruby-throated
Hummingbirds:

"Probably not a significant risk for adult birds in temperate zone. . ..
Known predators of adults include Loggerhead Shrike. . . and Sharp-shinned
Hawk. . .. Most common predator is probably house cat. . ..When faced with
attack from aerial predators, adults flee into dense cover. Blue Jay . .
.seen to kill and eat nestling Ruby-throated Hummingbird. . .; frequency of
this occurrence unknown. Predation on eggs unreported. During mobbing of
Blue Jay by birds of several other species, a single female came in and
hovered nearby but did not vocalize or otherwise participate."

I know RTHUs are very responsive to Eastern Screech-Owl playback, though
these are not mentioned as predators.  I've also read Black-chinned
Hummingbirds appear to intentionally build there nests close to Cooper's
Hawk nests--presumably because it keeps other creatures away from the
hummer nests.

Jim M.
Rockville, MD

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Subject: Predation in Hummingbirds by Roadrunner
From: Jack Daynes <jc_daynes AT SPAMCOP.NET>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 09:50:42 -0700
In 2003, while visiting Bosque del Apache I spent some time at the
visitor center catching images of hummingbirds at their feeders. I came
to learn that at least one of the local roadrunners had learned to make
regular meals of the hummingbirds. The feeders were only about four feet
off the ground, so it we pretty easy pickings for the roadrunner. It
would crouch under the feeder and wait for a victim to perch, there
spring up and snatch the hummer for an easy meal.

Very poor image (but proves the action) at:
http://www.shadetree-imaging.com/ImageGallery.aspx?moid=11901&hr=1

After witnessing the action, I spoke to the docents inside. They knew of
the activity, but when I suggested either raising the feeder higher or
hanging a screen below the feeder to remove the straight line attack
option, they seemed only interested in cursing the roadrunner. The
roadrunner was just taking advantage of the opportunity that they
provided. IMO, humans created the situation and should have taken
responsibility.

Be well,

--
-- Jack --
==================================

Wildlife Photography with
Emphasis on Birds
==================================
858-442-1907
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32 57'  W 117 04'
At 508' Elevation
==================================


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Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDCHAT] Predation in Hummingbirds
From: "Gorton, Gregg" <Gregg.Gorton AT VA.GOV>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:46:23 -0400
... Hmmmmmmm -- finally, we have an explanation why there are no hummingbirds 
in the Old World... 


(couldn't resist)

This is a fun discussion on a meaty topic.

Gregg Gorton, MD
Homoaves [at] gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim 

Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 12:28 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDCHAT] Predation in Hummingbirds

It's primarily the large exotic (i.e. non-native) mantids that prey on
hummingbirds, so it's not a predator-prey relationship that has evolved
over time.  See this article by Sheri Williamson:

Another Dangerous Chinese Import

 


Jim M.
Rockville, Maryland



On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Dan Kaiser  wrote:

> On YouTube there are numerous videos of mantis capturing hummingbirds. A
> year ago this month I captured a video of a near miss on my hummer
> feeder...
>
>
> 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dhkaiser/9655705338/in/photolist-fJ9B7U-dahzTi-fJ9AWL-dahAE1-fHf1Nf-dahAEq-cpiGcU-cpiGbW 

>
> Dan Kaiser
> Columbus, IN
>
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:22:21 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >Arie and All,
> >
> >Seeing as we're speaking anecdotally, it seems to me that I remember a
> picture circulating on the internet a while back, that showed a Praying (or
> "preying") Mantis with a hummer in its grasp. I don't know the outcome, but
> it didn't seem promising for the hummer (although how a Mantis would harm
> or "dine on" a hummer is beyond me).
> >
> >All the best,
> >Ernie Jardine
> >Pickering Ontario
> >
> >birding AT aol.com
> >www.birdsongidentification.com
> >
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>

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Subject: Re: Predation in Hummingbirds
From: Arie Gilbert <ariegilbert AT OPTONLINE.NET>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:38:05 -0400
All

I have been discreetly informed that Brown Recluse do not use webs and
that it was most likely a Golden Silk Orb Weaver, or other spider in any
case.

... but brown recluse is what the ranger told me...  and the hummer was
most certainly trapped...

Arie Gilbert
North Babylon, NY


On 9/12/2014 11:46 AM, Laura Erickson wrote:
> The issue of spider predation is colored by the fact that hummers
> gather spider silk for nests, so the authors of the paper dismissed
> those deaths as "accidental" rather that predation. I didn't want to
> take the time to find out how many spiders have actually made a meal
> of a hummingbird, but can't imagine they'd not get a nice, filling
> dinner. Really, any animal ensnared in a spider web got there "by
> accident." The spiders build them to capitalize on those accidents.
>
> Best, Laura
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Arie Gilbert
> > wrote:
>
>     If I might ad my 2 cents...
>
>     on a trip to Anahuac in TX some time ago,   a Humer was caught in a
>     brown recluse spider web up near the ceiling of the visitor's center.
>     The ranger on duty was trying to get something long enough to free the
>     hummer, and told me that the hummer would definitely end up on the
>     dinner table if not freed.
>
>     I know this is anecdotal, but the good news is the hummer was freed.
>
>     Arie Gilbert
>     North Babylon, NY
>
>
>
>
>
>     On 9/12/2014 10:32 AM, Ken Bergman wrote:
>
>         Interesting discussion, Laura.  It's true that North America
>         doesn't have
>         eyelash pit vipers, which can ambush hummers as they visit
>         Heliconia flowers
>         in the tropics, but we do have mantids, as you point out.  A
>         few years ago,
>         I published an image of mantis predation on a hummingbird at a
>         hummingbird
>         feeder (the photo was taken by the father of one of my students).
>
>         See:
> 
 

>
>         Ken Bergman
>
>         BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
>         Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>
>
>
>
>
>     -----
>
>     Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>     Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8200 - Release Date:
>     09/12/14
>
>
>     BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
>     Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Laura Erickson
>
> For the love, understanding, and protection of birds
>
> There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
> There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
> nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after
> the winter.
>
>             --Rachel Carson
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



-----

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Subject: Re: Predation in Hummingbirds
From: Jim <epiphenomenon9 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:28:09 -0400
It's primarily the large exotic (i.e. non-native) mantids that prey on
hummingbirds, so it's not a predator-prey relationship that has evolved
over time.  See this article by Sheri Williamson:

Another Dangerous Chinese Import

 


Jim M.
Rockville, Maryland



On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Dan Kaiser  wrote:

> On YouTube there are numerous videos of mantis capturing hummingbirds. A
> year ago this month I captured a video of a near miss on my hummer
> feeder...
>
>
> 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dhkaiser/9655705338/in/photolist-fJ9B7U-dahzTi-fJ9AWL-dahAE1-fHf1Nf-dahAEq-cpiGcU-cpiGbW 

>
> Dan Kaiser
> Columbus, IN
>
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:22:21 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >Arie and All,
> >
> >Seeing as we're speaking anecdotally, it seems to me that I remember a
> picture circulating on the internet a while back, that showed a Praying (or
> "preying") Mantis with a hummer in its grasp. I don't know the outcome, but
> it didn't seem promising for the hummer (although how a Mantis would harm
> or "dine on" a hummer is beyond me).
> >
> >All the best,
> >Ernie Jardine
> >Pickering Ontario
> >
> >birding AT aol.com
> >www.birdsongidentification.com
> >
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
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Subject: Re: Predation in Hummingbirds
From: Roger <r_craik AT SHAW.CA>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 09:15:41 -0700
The spiders would still be predators albeit tool using ones so I I don't
see any issues with coloured facts.

Roger Craik
Maple Ridge BC

On 12/09/2014 8:46 AM, Laura Erickson wrote:
> The issue of spider predation is colored by the fact that hummers gather
> spider silk for nests, so the authors of the paper dismissed those deaths
> as "accidental" rather that predation. I didn't want to take the time to
> find out how many spiders have actually made a meal of a hummingbird, but
> can't imagine they'd not get a nice, filling dinner. Really, any animal
> ensnared in a spider web got there "by accident." The spiders build them to
> capitalize on those accidents.
>
> Best, Laura
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Arie Gilbert 
> wrote:
>
>> If I might ad my 2 cents...
>>
>> on a trip to Anahuac in TX some time ago,   a Humer was caught in a
>> brown recluse spider web up near the ceiling of the visitor's center.
>> The ranger on duty was trying to get something long enough to free the
>> hummer, and told me that the hummer would definitely end up on the
>> dinner table if not freed.
>>
>> I know this is anecdotal, but the good news is the hummer was freed.
>>
>> Arie Gilbert
>> North Babylon, NY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/12/2014 10:32 AM, Ken Bergman wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting discussion, Laura.  It's true that North America doesn't have
>>> eyelash pit vipers, which can ambush hummers as they visit Heliconia
>>> flowers
>>> in the tropics, but we do have mantids, as you point out.  A few years
>>> ago,
>>> I published an image of mantis predation on a hummingbird at a hummingbird
>>> feeder (the photo was taken by the father of one of my students).
>>>
>>> See:
>>> >> in/photolist-5ipnFC-5ik67k>
>>>
>>> Ken Bergman
>>>
>>> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
>>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -----
>>
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8200 - Release Date: 09/12/14
>>
>>
>> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Laura Erickson
>
> For the love, understanding, and protection of birds
>
> There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
> There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
> nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
> winter.
>
>              --Rachel Carson
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: Predation in Hummingbirds
From: Dan Kaiser <dhkaiser AT SPRYNET.COM>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:06:16 -0400
On YouTube there are numerous videos of mantis capturing hummingbirds. A
year ago this month I captured a video of a near miss on my hummer
feeder...


https://www.flickr.com/photos/dhkaiser/9655705338/in/photolist-fJ9B7U-dahzTi-fJ9AWL-dahAE1-fHf1Nf-dahAEq-cpiGcU-cpiGbW 


Dan Kaiser
Columbus, IN

On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:22:21 -0400, you wrote:

>Arie and All,
>
>Seeing as we're speaking anecdotally, it seems to me that I remember a picture 
circulating on the internet a while back, that showed a Praying (or "preying") 
Mantis with a hummer in its grasp. I don't know the outcome, but it didn't seem 
promising for the hummer (although how a Mantis would harm or "dine on" a 
hummer is beyond me). 

>
>All the best,
>Ernie Jardine
>Pickering Ontario
>
>birding AT aol.com
>www.birdsongidentification.com
>

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: Predation in Hummingbirds
From: Laura Erickson <bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 10:46:10 -0500
The issue of spider predation is colored by the fact that hummers gather
spider silk for nests, so the authors of the paper dismissed those deaths
as "accidental" rather that predation. I didn't want to take the time to
find out how many spiders have actually made a meal of a hummingbird, but
can't imagine they'd not get a nice, filling dinner. Really, any animal
ensnared in a spider web got there "by accident." The spiders build them to
capitalize on those accidents.

Best, Laura

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Arie Gilbert 
wrote:

> If I might ad my 2 cents...
>
> on a trip to Anahuac in TX some time ago,   a Humer was caught in a
> brown recluse spider web up near the ceiling of the visitor's center.
> The ranger on duty was trying to get something long enough to free the
> hummer, and told me that the hummer would definitely end up on the
> dinner table if not freed.
>
> I know this is anecdotal, but the good news is the hummer was freed.
>
> Arie Gilbert
> North Babylon, NY
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9/12/2014 10:32 AM, Ken Bergman wrote:
>
>> Interesting discussion, Laura.  It's true that North America doesn't have
>> eyelash pit vipers, which can ambush hummers as they visit Heliconia
>> flowers
>> in the tropics, but we do have mantids, as you point out.  A few years
>> ago,
>> I published an image of mantis predation on a hummingbird at a hummingbird
>> feeder (the photo was taken by the father of one of my students).
>>
>> See:
>> > in/photolist-5ipnFC-5ik67k>
>>
>> Ken Bergman
>>
>> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8200 - Release Date: 09/12/14
>
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>



--
--
Laura Erickson

For the love, understanding, and protection of birds

There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
winter.

            --Rachel Carson

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: Predation on hummingbirds
From: birding AT AOL.COM
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:54:56 -0400
Laura and Chatters,
 
I too Googled Hummingbird and Praying Mantis, and now understand clearly how 
the Mantis attacks and "dines" on the hummer. Very enlightening, and rather 
gruesome, but I guess not much different from a Cooper's Hawk fulfilling its 
needs. 


All the best,
Ernie Jardine
Pickering Ontario

birding AT aol.com
www.birdsongidentification.com
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Erickson 
To: BIRDCHAT 
Sent: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 10:10 am
Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Predation on hummingbirds


I've been reading a book published in 2014 that based a whole chapter on a
point from a 1985 paper that had concluded that “hummingbirds in North
America do not have ‘natural predators’ in the usual sense.” That seemed 
so 

patently ridiculous that I looked into the original paper, and wrote about
it on my blog yesterday. I don't usually post blog links, but this one
might be interesting for some of you. I hope I wasn't too uncharitable--I
was simply trying to clear up what seems to me a serious misconception.

http://lauraerickson.blogspot.com/2014/09/predation-and-hummingbirds.html

Best, Laura
-- 
-- 
Laura Erickson

For the love, understanding, and protection of birds

There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
winter.

            --Rachel Carson

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

 

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: Predation in Hummingbirds
From: birding AT AOL.COM
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:28:24 -0400
Ken and Chatters,
 
Sorry for repeating this story. I just noticed Ken's (your) post neatly placed 
in my "Spam" folder among all the other junk. This kind of thing has been 
happening too often lately. I don't know why only certain Birdchat posts end up 
there. 

 
Cheers,
Ernie Jardine
Pickering Ontario
 
birding AT aol.com
www.birdsongidentification.com
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Bergman 
To: BIRDCHAT 
Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 10:35 am
Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Predation in Hummingbirds


Interesting discussion, Laura.  It's true that North America doesn't have
eyelash pit vipers, which can ambush hummers as they visit Heliconia flowers
in the tropics, but we do have mantids, as you point out.  A few years ago,
I published an image of mantis predation on a hummingbird at a hummingbird
feeder (the photo was taken by the father of one of my students).

See:

 


Ken Bergman

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

 

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: Predation in Hummingbirds
From: birding AT AOL.COM
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:22:21 -0400
Arie and All,
 
Seeing as we're speaking anecdotally, it seems to me that I remember a picture 
circulating on the internet a while back, that showed a Praying (or "preying") 
Mantis with a hummer in its grasp. I don't know the outcome, but it didn't seem 
promising for the hummer (although how a Mantis would harm or "dine on" a 
hummer is beyond me). 


All the best,
Ernie Jardine
Pickering Ontario

birding AT aol.com
www.birdsongidentification.com
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Arie Gilbert 
To: BIRDCHAT 
Sent: Fri, Sep 12, 2014 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Predation in Hummingbirds


If I might ad my 2 cents...

on a trip to Anahuac in TX some time ago,   a Humer was caught in a
brown recluse spider web up near the ceiling of the visitor's center.
The ranger on duty was trying to get something long enough to free the
hummer, and told me that the hummer would definitely end up on the
dinner table if not freed.

I know this is anecdotal, but the good news is the hummer was freed.

Arie Gilbert
North Babylon, NY




On 9/12/2014 10:32 AM, Ken Bergman wrote:
> Interesting discussion, Laura.  It's true that North America doesn't have
> eyelash pit vipers, which can ambush hummers as they visit Heliconia flowers
> in the tropics, but we do have mantids, as you point out.  A few years ago,
> I published an image of mantis predation on a hummingbird at a hummingbird
> feeder (the photo was taken by the father of one of my students).
>
> See:
> 
 

>
> Ken Bergman
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>
>



-----

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

 

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Subject: Re: Predation in Hummingbirds
From: Arie Gilbert <ariegilbert AT OPTONLINE.NET>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:01:35 -0400
If I might ad my 2 cents...

on a trip to Anahuac in TX some time ago,   a Humer was caught in a
brown recluse spider web up near the ceiling of the visitor's center.
The ranger on duty was trying to get something long enough to free the
hummer, and told me that the hummer would definitely end up on the
dinner table if not freed.

I know this is anecdotal, but the good news is the hummer was freed.

Arie Gilbert
North Babylon, NY




On 9/12/2014 10:32 AM, Ken Bergman wrote:
> Interesting discussion, Laura.  It's true that North America doesn't have
> eyelash pit vipers, which can ambush hummers as they visit Heliconia flowers
> in the tropics, but we do have mantids, as you point out.  A few years ago,
> I published an image of mantis predation on a hummingbird at a hummingbird
> feeder (the photo was taken by the father of one of my students).
>
> See:
> 
 

>
> Ken Bergman
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>
>



-----

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Predation in Hummingbirds
From: Ken Bergman <kbergman AT KEENE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 09:32:45 -0500
Interesting discussion, Laura.  It's true that North America doesn't have
eyelash pit vipers, which can ambush hummers as they visit Heliconia flowers
in the tropics, but we do have mantids, as you point out.  A few years ago,
I published an image of mantis predation on a hummingbird at a hummingbird
feeder (the photo was taken by the father of one of my students).

See:

 


Ken Bergman

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDCHAT] Predation on hummingbirds
From: "Gorton, Gregg" <Gregg.Gorton AT VA.GOV>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 10:17:13 -0400
Hummers are likely preyed on by small owls-- at least in the Neotropics. Some 
species respond rapidly to imitations of a Ferruginous Pygmy-owl's call. That's 
the way Bob Ridgley rediscovered the Honduran Emerald 10 years, or so, 
ago--according to my friend Jan Gordon and her late husband, Ken, who were 
there with Bob at the time. Of course, such predatory owls would be the species 
that hunt diurnally. I wonder if they sometimes pick hummers off the nest, as 
well as in the air... 


Gregg Gorton
Philadelphia, PA
Homoaves [at] gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Joseph Morlan 

Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 1:15 AM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [BIRDCHAT] Predation on hummingbirds

I attended a seminar a few years ago in which it was pointed out that 
hummingbirds on Caribbean Islands which have few or no predators also have 
females which resemble the bright males instead of being dull colored. 


The traditional view is that the males have evolved a bright plumage via sexual 
selection. It makes them attractive to females. However, the hypothesis in this 
case was that sexual dimorphism evolved to protect females from predation at 
the nest. In the absence of predation there is no need for the females to be 
cryptically colored. Under this view, the bright coloration of hummingbirds is 
a primitive trait rather than derived in response to sexual selection. 


If so, this suggests that predation in hummingbirds is important enough that it 
has effected their evolution in a rather profound way. 


On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:31:33 -0500, David Starrett 
wrote:

>Interesting. I could increase their number by 25%. I have felt bad serving 
hummers up as food for a local Cooper's hawk who takes advantage of the hors 
d'oeuvres I so graciously attract for him flying around the feeders in late 
summer. He takes them off to munch elsewhere in what I assume is a quick gulp. 

>Dave
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>David Starrett
>
>Cape Girardeau, MO
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:58:10 -0500
>> From: bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM
>> Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Predation on hummingbirds
>> To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>>
>> I've been reading a book published in 2014 that based a whole chapter
>> on a point from a 1985 paper that had concluded that “hummingbirds in
>> North America do not have ‘natural predators’ in the usual sense.”
>> That seemed so patently ridiculous that I looked into the original
>> paper, and wrote about it on my blog yesterday. I don't usually post
>> blog links, but this one might be interesting for some of you. I hope
>> I wasn't too uncharitable--I was simply trying to clear up what seems to me 
a serious misconception. 

>>
>> http://lauraerickson.blogspot.com/2014/09/predation-and-hummingbirds.
>> html
>>
>> Best, Laura
>> --
>> --
>> Laura Erickson
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
"It turns out we're very good at not seeing things" - Jack Hitt

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: Predation on hummingbirds
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 22:15:20 -0700
I attended a seminar a few years ago in which it was pointed out that
hummingbirds on Caribbean Islands which have few or no predators also have
females which resemble the bright males instead of being dull colored.

The traditional view is that the males have evolved a bright plumage via
sexual selection.  It makes them attractive to females.  However, the
hypothesis in this case was that sexual dimorphism evolved to protect
females from predation at the nest.  In the absence of predation there is
no need for the females to be cryptically colored.  Under this view, the
bright coloration of hummingbirds is a primitive trait rather than derived
in response to sexual selection.

If so, this suggests that predation in hummingbirds is important enough
that it has effected their evolution in a rather profound way.

On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:31:33 -0500, David Starrett 
wrote:

>Interesting. I could increase their number by 25%. I have felt bad serving 
hummers up as food for a local Cooper's hawk who takes advantage of the hors 
d'oeuvres I so graciously attract for him flying around the feeders in late 
summer. He takes them off to munch elsewhere in what I assume is a quick gulp. 

>Dave
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>David Starrett
>
>Cape Girardeau, MO
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:58:10 -0500
>> From: bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM
>> Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Predation on hummingbirds
>> To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>>
>> I've been reading a book published in 2014 that based a whole chapter on a
>> point from a 1985 paper that had concluded that “hummingbirds in North
>> America do not have ‘natural predators’ in the usual sense.” That 
seemed so 

>> patently ridiculous that I looked into the original paper, and wrote about
>> it on my blog yesterday. I don't usually post blog links, but this one
>> might be interesting for some of you. I hope I wasn't too uncharitable--I
>> was simply trying to clear up what seems to me a serious misconception.
>>
>> http://lauraerickson.blogspot.com/2014/09/predation-and-hummingbirds.html
>>
>> Best, Laura
>> --
>> --
>> Laura Erickson
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
"It turns out we're very good at not seeing things" - Jack Hitt

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: Predation on hummingbirds
From: David Starrett <starrettda AT HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:31:33 -0500
Interesting. I could increase their number by 25%. I have felt bad serving 
hummers up as food for a local Cooper's hawk who takes advantage of the hors 
d'oeuvres I so graciously attract for him flying around the feeders in late 
summer. He takes them off to munch elsewhere in what I assume is a quick gulp. 

Dave

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

David Starrett

Cape Girardeau, MO

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:58:10 -0500
> From: bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM
> Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Predation on hummingbirds
> To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> 
> I've been reading a book published in 2014 that based a whole chapter on a
> point from a 1985 paper that had concluded that hummingbirds in North
> America do not have natural predators in the usual sense. That seemed so
> patently ridiculous that I looked into the original paper, and wrote about
> it on my blog yesterday. I don't usually post blog links, but this one
> might be interesting for some of you. I hope I wasn't too uncharitable--I
> was simply trying to clear up what seems to me a serious misconception.
> 
> http://lauraerickson.blogspot.com/2014/09/predation-and-hummingbirds.html
> 
> Best, Laura
> -- 
> -- 
> Laura Erickson
> 
> For the love, understanding, and protection of birds
> 
> There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
> There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
> nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
> winter.
> 
>             --Rachel Carson
> 
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> 
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
 		 	   		  
BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Predation on hummingbirds
From: Laura Erickson <bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:58:10 -0500
I've been reading a book published in 2014 that based a whole chapter on a
point from a 1985 paper that had concluded that “hummingbirds in North
America do not have ‘natural predators’ in the usual sense.” That seemed 
so 

patently ridiculous that I looked into the original paper, and wrote about
it on my blog yesterday. I don't usually post blog links, but this one
might be interesting for some of you. I hope I wasn't too uncharitable--I
was simply trying to clear up what seems to me a serious misconception.

http://lauraerickson.blogspot.com/2014/09/predation-and-hummingbirds.html

Best, Laura
-- 
-- 
Laura Erickson

For the love, understanding, and protection of birds

There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
winter.

            --Rachel Carson

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

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Subject: World Shorebird Day
From: "R.D. Everhart" <everhart AT BLACK-HOLE.COM>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 22:48:51 -0500
I hope everyone had a chance to get out and watch count shorebirds
today. Personally I think every day should be shorebird day.

http://minnesotabirdnerd.blogspot.com


Roger Everhart
Apple Valley, MN

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: World Shorebird Day
From: "R.D. Everhart" <everhart AT black-hole.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 22:48:51 -0500
I hope everyone had a chance to get out and watch count shorebirds
today. Personally I think every day should be shorebird day.

http://minnesotabirdnerd.blogspot.com


Roger Everhart
Apple Valley, MN


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Subject: BirdNote, last week & the week of Sept. 7, 2014
From: Ellen Blackstone <ellen AT 123IMAGINE.NET>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 09:12:39 -0700
Hello, BirdChat,

Saturday, September 6, 2014, is both World Shorebird Day and
International Vulture Awareness Day. Check out our vulture gallery:
http://bit.ly/WrEaaN
-------------------------------------------------
Last week, BirdNote aired:

* The Call of the Loon

http://bit.ly/Q4S4Zs
* The Demise of the Passenger Pigeon
http://bit.ly/1lrzX2A

* The Cuban Tody

http://bit.ly/YkB22c

* When Birds Land in Parking Lots
http://bit.ly/Q4fnDo

* Shorebirds Migrate South
http://bit.ly/1Aj4G3r

* Tree Swallow Roost
http://bit.ly/RMk950

* Buff-breasted Sandpiper - One classy shorebird!
http://bit.ly/1nCmC3l

------------------------------------------------------------
View the photos and links for next week's shows: http://bit.ly/1qvLIFr
------------------------------------------------------------
Travel to Cuba with BirdNote and Earthbound Expeditions, October 18th -
26th, 2014. Join us on a unique trip to experience the culture, history,
and birds of this vibrant island. http://bit.ly/1sOyNyW
-----------------------------------------------------------
Find us on Facebook. Search for birdnote.
... or Follow us on Twitter. Search for birdnoteradio
=========================================
You can listen to the mp3, see a photo, and read the transcript for a
show, plus sign up for weekly mail or the podcast, and find related
resources on the website. http://www.birdnote.org You'll find 1200+
episodes in the archive.

Thanks for listening!
Ellen Blackstone, BirdNote

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Subject: Sat. 6 September, World Shorebirds Day
From: Chuck & Lillian <misclists AT VERIZON.NET>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:19:28 -0700
Birders:
I'm passing along a message from Gyorgy Szimuly in Great Britain.
***************************
You might have heard about the World Shorebirds
Day to be held on 6 September, 2014 for the first
time.  One of the key programs of this special
day is the Global Shorebird Counting, which is a
public awareness initiative. I ask all bird
enthusiasts in the United States and Canada to
take part in the counting in any areas where
shorebirds occur. Don't worry if there are no
huge number of shorebirds in your area. We don't
ask you for money to help. We just ask you to go
out birding, what every birdwatcher loves to do
anyway. Please consider supporting this
initiative and register your location on our
website. By registering a location you can be a
part of a draw to win a fantastic bird book package worth about 150.
Registration of the location and more details
about the Global Shorebird Counting Program can
be found here: http://goo.gl/jNW1VG
The map with more than 340 already registered
locations can be viewed here: http://goo.gl/ICpB7X
Thanks for your time and please help us to reach
our goal of having a thousand locations registered by 6th of September 2014.
Best wishes, Szimi
_
Gyorgy Szimuly
Coordinator of the Global Events of the World Shorebirds Day
Milton Keynes, UK

http://worldshorebirdsday.wordpress.com 


  ***************************
Take a look at the map and you'll see that there
are big chunks of the USA still not covered.
Register your spot!

Chuck Almdale
North Hills, Ca.

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Birding Community E-bulletin - September 2014
From: Barbara Volkle and Steve Moore <barb620 AT THEWORLD.COM>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 13:52:02 -0400
The September 2014 issue of the Birding Community E-bulletin is now
available the web, covering news and issues relevant to birders.

Please share with birders you know!

Scroll to the bottom for information on how to subscribe directly.

Barbara Volkle
Northborough, MA
barb620 AT theworld.com

* * *

This Birding Community E-bulletin is designed for active and
concerned birders, those dedicated to the joys of birding and the
protection of birds and their habitats.

This issue is sponsored by the producers of superb quality birding
binoculars and scopes, Carl Zeiss Sport Optics:

http://sportsoptics.zeiss.com/nature/en_us/home.html 


You can access this issue and the archive of past E-bulletins on the
website of the National Wildlife Refuge Association (NWRA):

http://refugeassociation.org/news/birding-bulletin/ 




The September 2014 edition includes the following topics:

RARITY FOCUS
   - Lower Rio Grande Valley Collared Plover

WHAT WOULD MARTHA DO
   - the argument that timely conservation really does work

BOOK NOTES: SIBLEY REVISITED
   - new illustrations includes illustrations of rarities that were
not
     included in the first edition

TRICOLORED BLACKBIRD: STILL TROUBLED
   - possible emergency listing of the Tricolored Blackbird on CA
     endangered species list

SURPRISE PUERTO RICAN PARROTS HATCHED IN THE WILD
   - two endangered Puerto Rican parrots were recently hatched for
the
     first time in 144 years

ACCESS MATTERS: SIMPLE PARKING
   -  every effort should be made to adhere to whatever guidelines
have been
      established to regulate birder crowd control

IBA NEWS: HATTERAS REPRIEVE
   - the battle over off-road vehicle (ORV) use at Hatteras National
     Seashore (National Park Service) has gone on for years

NEONICS AND NWRs
   - US FWS bans the use of neonicotinoids at National Wildlife
Refuges

EAGLE "TAKE" PERMIT COULD START A TREND
   - permit was issued to a wind-power project in northern California

TIP OF THE MONTH: PERSONALIZE YOUR FIELD GUIDE
   - opportunities to personalize your field guide are practically
endless

LWCF IS 50 THIS MONTH
   - use the revenues from offshore oil and gas to support the
conservation
     of land and water - underfunded and must be renewed to be
continued

- - - - - - - -

You can access past E-bulletins on the National Wildlife Refuge
Association (NWRA) website:

http://refugeassociation.org/news/birding-bulletin/ 



If you wish to receive the bulletin or have any friends or co-workers

who want to get onto the monthly E-bulletin mailing list, have them
contact either:

Wayne R. Petersen
Director Massachusetts Important Bird Areas (IBA)
Program Mass Audubon
wpetersen-at-massaudubon.org

Paul J. Baicich
Great Birding Projects
paul.baicich-at-verizon.net

If you wish to distribute all or parts of any of the monthly Birding
Community E-bulletins, they simply request that you mention the
source
of any material used. (Include a URL for the E-bulletin archives, if
possible.)

We never lend or sell our E-bulletin recipient list.


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Subject: OOOPS....RE: [BIRDCHAT] Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump as she soars over open seas: picture
From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:01:55 -0400
Of course, I meant that I had dissected birds with an egg ready to be LAID, not 
hatched...no signs of internal incubation! 



Barry



-----Original Message-----
From: Barry K. MacKay [mailto:mimus AT sympatico.ca]
Sent: September-04-14 11:11 AM
To: 'Alvaro Jaramillo'; 'BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU'
Subject: RE: [BIRDCHAT] Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump 
as she soars over open seas: picture 


I was wondering the same thing. I've prepared the odd specimen (of species not 
related to petrels, to be sure) with a ready-to-hatch egg inside, but with no 
external evidence, so unless there is something different about this group of 
birds I am inclined to think it isn't an egg. 


Barry


Barry Kent MacKay
Bird Artist, Illustrator
Studio: (905)-472-9731
http://www.barrykentmackay.ca
mimus AT sympatico.ca
Markham, Ontario, Canada



-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Alvaro Jaramillo 

Sent: September-04-14 10:50 AM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump 
as she soars over open seas: picture 


All,

 I don't know how they are certain that this is an egg? Why not a growth/tumor 
under the feathers. You can go to a gull colony at egg laying time, and no bird 
appears to visibly have an egg in the tract, they just don't show like this. I 
am guessing that this is not an egg. 


Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro AT alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Devorah the Ornithologist 

Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 6:00 AM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump as 
she soars over open seas: picture 


hello everyone,

here's a story that may interest tubenose aficionados: a "pregnant"
Mascarene petrel was photographed with an obvious egg bump as she soars over 
open seas, and i've got the photos to prove it. 


the story is a bit of an experiment. since i was fairly certain only a few 
people in the world would care about a critically endangered all-brown seabird, 
"pregnant" or not (shocking, i know!), the story was modelled after paparazzi 
stories of pregnant celebrities as published in the Sun. 

presumably, it is a serious piece about the bird, containing accurate 
information, but also includes some tongue-in-cheek elements that may appeal to 
... well, someone. 


not sure if the story succeeds, but it has some truly spectacular photographs 
of these birds and includes a link to the actual BOC PDF, which is kindly 
hosted by the good people at the British Ornithologists' Union, so anyone and 
everyone around the world can download it for free. 



http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist/2014/sep/04/pregnant-mascarene-petrel-shows-off-ginormous-egg-bump-as-she-soars-over-open-seas-picture?view=mobile#opt-in-message 


compact URL:

http://gu.com/p/4x9nn/tw

as always, share widely.

cheers,

--
GrrlScientist
birdologist AT gmail.com
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461 ff.]

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8150 - Release Date: 09/04/14

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8147 - Release Date: 09/03/14

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump as she soars over open seas: picture
From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 11:11:29 -0400
I was wondering the same thing. I've prepared the odd specimen (of species not 
related to petrels, to be sure) with a ready-to-hatch egg inside, but with no 
external evidence, so unless there is something different about this group of 
birds I am inclined to think it isn't an egg. 


Barry


Barry Kent MacKay
Bird Artist, Illustrator
Studio: (905)-472-9731
http://www.barrykentmackay.ca
mimus AT sympatico.ca
Markham, Ontario, Canada



-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Alvaro Jaramillo 

Sent: September-04-14 10:50 AM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump 
as she soars over open seas: picture 


All,

 I don't know how they are certain that this is an egg? Why not a growth/tumor 
under the feathers. You can go to a gull colony at egg laying time, and no bird 
appears to visibly have an egg in the tract, they just don't show like this. I 
am guessing that this is not an egg. 


Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro AT alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Devorah the Ornithologist 

Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 6:00 AM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump as 
she soars over open seas: picture 


hello everyone,

here's a story that may interest tubenose aficionados: a "pregnant"
Mascarene petrel was photographed with an obvious egg bump as she soars over 
open seas, and i've got the photos to prove it. 


the story is a bit of an experiment. since i was fairly certain only a few 
people in the world would care about a critically endangered all-brown seabird, 
"pregnant" or not (shocking, i know!), the story was modelled after paparazzi 
stories of pregnant celebrities as published in the Sun. 

presumably, it is a serious piece about the bird, containing accurate 
information, but also includes some tongue-in-cheek elements that may appeal to 
... well, someone. 


not sure if the story succeeds, but it has some truly spectacular photographs 
of these birds and includes a link to the actual BOC PDF, which is kindly 
hosted by the good people at the British Ornithologists' Union, so anyone and 
everyone around the world can download it for free. 



http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist/2014/sep/04/pregnant-mascarene-petrel-shows-off-ginormous-egg-bump-as-she-soars-over-open-seas-picture?view=mobile#opt-in-message 


compact URL:

http://gu.com/p/4x9nn/tw

as always, share widely.

cheers,

--
GrrlScientist
birdologist AT gmail.com
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461 ff.]

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8150 - Release Date: 09/04/14

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8147 - Release Date: 09/03/14

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump as she soars over open seas: picture
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao AT COASTSIDE.NET>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 07:50:07 -0700
All,

 I don't know how they are certain that this is an egg? Why not a growth/tumor 
under the feathers. You can go to a gull colony at egg laying time, and no bird 
appears to visibly have an egg in the tract, they just don't show like this. I 
am guessing that this is not an egg. 


Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro AT alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Devorah the Ornithologist 

Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 6:00 AM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump as 
she soars over open seas: picture 


hello everyone,

here's a story that may interest tubenose aficionados: a "pregnant"
Mascarene petrel was photographed with an obvious egg bump as she soars over 
open seas, and i've got the photos to prove it. 


the story is a bit of an experiment. since i was fairly certain only a few 
people in the world would care about a critically endangered all-brown seabird, 
"pregnant" or not (shocking, i know!), the story was modelled after paparazzi 
stories of pregnant celebrities as published in the Sun. 

presumably, it is a serious piece about the bird, containing accurate 
information, but also includes some tongue-in-cheek elements that may appeal to 
... well, someone. 


not sure if the story succeeds, but it has some truly spectacular photographs 
of these birds and includes a link to the actual BOC PDF, which is kindly 
hosted by the good people at the British Ornithologists' Union, so anyone and 
everyone around the world can download it for free. 



http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist/2014/sep/04/pregnant-mascarene-petrel-shows-off-ginormous-egg-bump-as-she-soars-over-open-seas-picture?view=mobile#opt-in-message 


compact URL:

http://gu.com/p/4x9nn/tw

as always, share widely.

cheers,

--
GrrlScientist
birdologist AT gmail.com
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461 ff.]

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8150 - Release Date: 09/04/14

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8147 - Release Date: 09/03/14

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Pregnant Mascarene petrel shows off ginormous egg bump as she soars over open seas: picture
From: Devorah the Ornithologist <birdologist AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:00:29 +0100
hello everyone,

here's a story that may interest tubenose aficionados: a "pregnant"
Mascarene petrel was photographed with an obvious egg bump as she soars
over open seas, and i've got the photos to prove it.

the story is a bit of an experiment. since i was fairly certain only a few
people in the world would care about a critically endangered all-brown
seabird, "pregnant" or not (shocking, i know!), the story was modelled
after paparazzi stories of pregnant celebrities as published in the Sun.
presumably, it is a serious piece about the bird, containing accurate
information, but also includes some tongue-in-cheek elements that may
appeal to ... well, someone.

not sure if the story succeeds, but it has some truly spectacular
photographs of these birds and includes a link to the actual BOC PDF, which
is kindly hosted by the good people at the British Ornithologists' Union,
so anyone and everyone around the world can download it for free.


http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist/2014/sep/04/pregnant-mascarene-petrel-shows-off-ginormous-egg-bump-as-she-soars-over-open-seas-picture?view=mobile#opt-in-message 


compact URL:

http://gu.com/p/4x9nn/tw

as always, share widely.

cheers,

--
GrrlScientist
birdologist AT gmail.com
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461
ff.]

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: before there were none: what were those flocks of passenger pigeons like?
From: Devorah the Ornithologist <birdologist AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 14:26:03 +0100
hello everyone,

one question that everyone asks, and in fact, nearly everyone asks this
question first, is "What was it like to witness a flock of passenger
pigeons flying overhead? What did this spectacle look and sound like?"

Well, you can start by imagining a murmuration of starlings, and multiply
that flock by ten thousand, times, and then you might be getting close to
what passenger pigeons were like ...

here's some interesting first-hand accounts of what the flocks were like,
accompanied by a video that helps provide some idea of passenger pigeon
flocks:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/03/before-there-were-none

or a compact URL:

http://gu.com/p/4x779/tw

as always, please feel free to share widely.

--
GrrlScientist
birdologist AT gmail.com
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461
ff.]

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: a book you may want to read
From: Richard Carlson <rccarl AT PACBELL.NET>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 21:58:15 -0700
I finally finished this book . It's part travelogue to some really exotic spots 
and part advanced biology. I enjoyed it, but it's not exactly a thriller. 
Sections on W New Guinea and Bhutan are particularly good. 


Richard Carlson
Full time birder,biker, Rotarian
Part-time Economist
Tucson, AZ
Lake Tahoe, CA
Kirkland, WA
Sent from my iPad

On Jul 9, 2014, at 1:19 PM, Devorah the Ornithologist  
wrote: 


> hello everyone,
>
> i published my review of Eric Dinerstein's book, The Kingdom of Rarities.
> In this book, he explores the reasons why some species are rare, and he
> considers whether rare species play a special role in ecosystem
> functioning. Although the book is not exclusively about birds, it is filled
> with lots of bird information and stories. but more important, this book
> examines a critically important issue that we are confronting more
> frequently.
>
> http://gu.com/p/3c52d/tw
>
> cheers,
>
> --
> GrrlScientist
> Devorah Bennu, PhD
> birdologist AT gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
> http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist
> 
> *sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461
> ff.]
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: errol fuller's newly-published book about passenger pigeons
From: Devorah the Ornithologist <birdologist AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 12:59:51 +0100
hello everyone,

here's my review of another book about the passenger pigeon. this book, by
artist Errol Fuller, is quite different to historian Joel Greenberg's book
i told you about yesterday; Fuller's book is a photographic memorial that
provides historical context and of course, powerful emotional impacts that
come with visual images


http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist/2014/sep/02/the-passenger-pigeon-by-errol-fuller-review 


or tiny URL:

http://gu.com/p/4x7q2/tw

cheers,

--
GrrlScientist
birdologist AT gmail.com
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461
ff.]

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Click here for just a sense of what we lost the last of, 100 yrs ago today
From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 08:27:18 -0400
Click here to see something like it must have been like, not a century
ago.too late by then.but just a few decades before that, when Passenger
Pigeons thrived and there were no wildlife managers telling us that species
were "hyperabundant" (nor any laws to protect them once we had reduced them
to endangered status).



Martha, the last known Passenger Pigeon, died in captivity, where she had
lived her entire life, a century ago today.



Click here:



http://vimeo.com/92192308



Barry





Barry Kent MacKay

Bird Artist, Illustrator

Studio: (905)-472-9731

http://www.barrykentmackay.ca
mimus AT sympatico.ca

Markham, ON., Canada




BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
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Subject: A feathered river across the sky
From: Devorah the Ornithologist <birdologist AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:04:20 +0100
hello everyone,

you probably know that today is a most inauspicious day: it is the
centenary of the extinction of the passenger pigeon, which was likely the
most numerous single bird species on the planet. this extinction was due
entirely to humans.

i wrote a review of joel greenberg's new book, A feathered river across the
sky, that you may wish to read. my book review is the opening salvo in a
series of opinion pieces and book reviews that i plan to publish this week
about the passenger pigeon. although this is a book review, i think it
reads like a stand alone essay because it provides the context that i will
build upon this week, and deserves some attention.


http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist/2014/sep/01/a-feathered-river-across-the-sky-by-joel-greenberg-review 


or tiny URL:

http://gu.com/p/4x6t2/tw

--
GrrlScientist
birdologist AT gmail.com
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461
ff.]

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Subject: BirdNote, last week & the week of Aug. 31, 2014
From: Ellen Blackstone <ellen AT 123IMAGINE.NET>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 07:53:19 -0700
Hello, BirdChat,

The last few days of summer vacation, and people are catching some rays.
Birds, too!
Check out this photo blog of birds sunbathing: http://bit.ly/1n6EXFe
-------------------------------------------------
Last week, BirdNote aired:

* Texas Hill Country Conservation - Paul Davis manages his land to
protect the Golden-cheeked Warbler and the Black-capped Vireo
http://bit.ly/NkKm9q

* A Vast Unseen Migration Offshore
http://bit.ly/1ots8V8

* California Condor
http://bit.ly/1tLuPYv

* Burrowing Owl Hisses Like a Rattlesnake!
http://bit.ly/1rFjkTN

* Grassland Meander in Saskatchewan
http://bit.ly/17TcJXo

* Wilson's Warbler Near Summer's End
http://bit.ly/1nKrmDK

* Birds and Navigation
http://bit.ly/Z1flnN

------------------------------------------------------------
View the photos and links for next week's shows: http://bit.ly/1vVBfDL
------------------------------------------------------------
Travel to Cuba with BirdNote and Earthbound Expeditions, October 18th -
26th, 2014. Join us on a unique trip to experience the culture, history,
and birds of this vibrant island. http://bit.ly/1sOyNyW
-----------------------------------------------------------
Find us on Facebook. Search for birdnote.
... or Follow us on Twitter. Search for birdnoteradio
=========================================
You can listen to the mp3, see a photo, and read the transcript for a
show, plus sign up for weekly mail or the podcast, and find related
resources on the website. http://www.birdnote.org You'll find 1200+
episodes in the archive.

Thanks for listening!
Ellen Blackstone, BirdNote

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Subject: About Martha (passenger pigeon)
From: Devorah the Ornithologist <birdologist AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:00:01 +0100
hello everyone,

I just published a "caturday" piece featuring a couple videos that provide
a look at martha, a captive-bred female passenger pigeon whose death on 1
september 1914 at the Cincinnati Zoo marked the extinction of the most
numerous bird species on earth:


http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist/2014/aug/30/about-martha-passenger-pigeon-video 


tiny URL:

http://gu.com/p/4x4vv/tw

--
GrrlScientist
Devorah Bennu, PhD
birdologist AT gmail.com
http://about.me/grrlscientist 
http://www.grrlscientist.net/
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461
ff.]

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Subject: Secrets of animal camouflage research (video)
From: Devorah the Ornithologist <birdologist AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 12:31:53 +0100
hello everyone,

here's a fun and informative little video that you may enjoy, shot in
Africa. it includes lots of birds and as a bonus, especially for harry
potter fans, it includes footage of a live boomslang:


http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist/2014/aug/29/secrets-of-animal-camouflage-research?view=mobile#opt-in-message 


tiny URL:

http://gu.com/p/4x5ej/tw

cheers,

--
GrrlScientist
Devorah Bennu, PhD
birdologist AT gmail.com
http://about.me/grrlscientist 
http://www.grrlscientist.net/
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461
ff.]

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Subject: Hilton Pond 08/16/14 (Late August Walkabout)
From: "Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" <research AT HILTONPOND.ORG>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 22:20:26 -0400
"This Week at Hilton Pond" I'm responding to folks who think we only write 
about hummingbirds by taking a "Late August Walkabout" around Center property. 
The photo essay for 16-31 Aug 2014 includes info about native wildflowers, 
pignuts, a couple of reptiles, pollinating butterflies, and predator-prey 
relationships, so everyone should find something to help satisfy their nature 
fixes. (P.S. There might even be a sentence or two about a very special 
hummingbird.) To view the latest installment, please see 

http://www.hiltonpond.org/ThisWeek140816.html

While there don't forget to scroll down for a list of birds banded and 
recaptured during the period, plus some miscellaneous nature notes. 


Happy Nature Watching!

BILL


Please "Like" our new Facebook pages at http://www.facebook.com/HiltonPond for 
timely updates on nature topics, 

and for info about hummingbirds at http://www.facebook.com/rubythroats

Follow us on Twitter  AT hiltonpond

========

DR. BILL HILTON JR., Executive Director
Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History
1432 DeVinney Road, York, South Carolina 29745 USA
office & cell (803) 684-5852

The mission of Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History is "to conserve 
plants, animals, habitats, and other natural components of the Piedmont Region 
of the eastern United States through observation, scientific study, and 
education for students of all ages. 


"Never trust a person too lazy to get up for sunrise or too busy to watch the 
sunset." BHjr. 


============

Please "Like" our new Facebook pages at http://www.facebook.com/HiltonPond for 
timely updates on nature topics, 

and for info about hummingbirds at http://www.facebook.com/rubythroats

Follow us on Twitter  AT hiltonpond
=========

RESEARCH PROGRAM
c/o BILL HILTON JR., D.Sci.
Executive Director
Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History
1432 DeVinney Road, York, South Carolina 29745 USA
office & cell (803) 684-5852

Please visit our web sites (courtesy of Comporium.net):
Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History at http://www.hiltonpond.org 
"Operation RubyThroat: The Hummingbird Project" at http://www.rubythroat.org

==================


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Subject: Ruby-throated Hummingbird No. 5,000
From: "Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" <research AT HILTONPOND.ORG>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 13:35:25 -0400
Another big celebration today (28 Aug 2014) at Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont 
Natural History: This morning I applied band #H81031 to a hatch-year female 
Ruby-throated Hummingbird, making her forever famous as the 5,000th of her 
species banded here at the Center since 1984. I'm hopeful all you hummingbird 
enthusiasts share in my excitement at reaching this milestone and in wishing 
her safe travels to the Neotropics--and back again next spring. :-) 


Happy Hummingbird Watching!

BILL

Please "Like" our new Facebook pages at http://www.facebook.com/HiltonPond for 
timely updates on nature topics, 

and for info about hummingbirds at http://www.facebook.com/rubythroats

Follow us on Twitter  AT hiltonpond
=========

RESEARCH PROGRAM
c/o BILL HILTON JR., D.Sci.
Executive Director
Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History
1432 DeVinney Road, York, South Carolina 29745 USA
office & cell (803) 684-5852

Please visit our web sites (courtesy of Comporium.net):
Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History at http://www.hiltonpond.org 
"Operation RubyThroat: The Hummingbird Project" at http://www.rubythroat.org

==================


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Subject: A birding video game you'll love
From: Devorah the Ornithologist <birdologist AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:29:11 +0100
hey everyone,

i just published this piece about a fun little citizen science/birding game
where the viewer is challenged to spot camouflaged nightjar eggs. the
research project that gave rise to this game is studying animal vision and
the evolution of camouflage, and how camouflage affects survival. the best
part is that you don't need to be a birder to enjoy this game, so share it
with your friends, neighbours and co-workers!


http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist/2014/aug/27/eggcellent-citizen-science-evolution-of-camouflage-in-bird-eggs 


or tiny URL:

http://gu.com/p/4x39x

cheers,

--
GrrlScientist
Devorah Bennu, PhD
birdologist AT gmail.com
http://about.me/grrlscientist 
http://www.grrlscientist.net/
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461
ff.]

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Subject: pelagic birding from a cruise ship
From: "Gail B. Mackiernan %3Ckatahdinss%40comcast.net%3E" <katahdinss AT COMCAST.NET>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:22:27 +0000
Hi all,

We have been doing pelagic birding from commercial cruise ships for over a 
decade, quite a few of our trip reports are on-line (many on Surf Birds) -- in 
that time we have visited all the world's oceans save the Indian and are doing 
that this coming December. We always use our scopes and we try to get as low as 
possible on the ship. Some of the Holland-America ships have open access to the 
bow (the very tip is a "wind shadow") and a number of the newer Princess 
vessels have a low walk-around promenade under the bow which is excellent, 
being sheltered and covered. A camera is very useful to clinch ID of some 
species. 


The best routes we have found for seabirding are:

1. west coast of the Americas from California to Valparaiso, Chile -- wide 
variety of tubenoses, plus boobies and skuas. Actually, a trip from San Diego 
or LA to Mexico is very good, lots of birds and cetaceans off Baja. 


2. Alaska to Russia (Petropavlovsk) and then to Japan -- few ships do this now, 
Silversea being one of the few, the route north of Attu along the 53rd parallel 
takes one south of the Commodore Islands and is not well-explored. In 2011 we 
had 25+ Solander's (aka Providence) petrels in US waters, the first for USA. 
Good possibility of Short-tailed Albie. In May 2007 we had over a dozen Ross' 
Gulls in full pink plumage flying north. 


3. around the Horn from Valpo to Buenos Aires, hopefully with a stop in the 
Falklands. The bight between Falklands and B.A. is a major feeding area for 
seabirds, including some from Tristan da Cunha such as Spectacled Petrel, 
Tristan Albie. 


4. the above with added dip down to Antarctica, only Holland-America does this 
route now. Chance to add Antarctic species such as Antarctica and Snow Petrel, 
various penguin species (have seen Chin-strap, Gentoo, King, So. Rockhopper, 
Macaroni. Adele, Magellanic) also across Drake Passage twice which is a seabird 
spectacle. 


5. New Zealand north to Japan -- not offered very often, but brilliant except 
for "doldrums" near Equator which are almost a "bird-free zone." 


6. Australia to New Zealand, a commonly offered trip -- we just did this and 
had lots of albatrosses (Gibson's, So. and No. Royal, Campbell's, White-capped, 
etc.) plus White-headed and other petrels and shearwaters. 


7. Australia to Vanuatu -- usually stops at New Caledonia where you can forget 
seabirds for a day and see goodies such as Kagu and Cloven-feathered Dove. lots 
of good petrels such as Collared, Cook's, Kermadec, Providence, Gray-faced 
(Great-winged), Black-winged etc. 


8. mid-Atlantic to the Maritimes, need to be sure the ship does the Bay of 
Fundy -- 


Later this year we are doing a cruise from Sri Lanka to Mauritius, not sure 
what we'll see but hope for Barau's and Jouanin's Petrels, some shearwaters new 
to us plus a lot of good endemic landbirds on the islands. 


In fact, careful planning of shore-days is very important -- we either try to 
hire a local guide or get local "gen" and hire a car or taxi. In this way we 
have managed to see some endemic island birds rarely viewed by birders, such as 
Ouvea Parakeet and Yap Monarch. The ship's excursions are rarely good for 
birders, with the exception of (on the Falklands) a trip to one of the penguin 
colonies. 


Gail Mackiernan and Barry Cooper
Silver Spring, MD


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Subject: Re: Pelagic Birding On a Cruise Ship, Part 2 of 2
From: Richard Carlson <rccarl AT PACBELL.NET>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 07:03:00 -0700
The other super birdy stretch is Seward to Homer which includes Glacier Bay on 
many cruises. Seward has excellent birding day trips almost daily. Seward to 
Homer has tons of Tufted and Horned Puffins plus a few Laysan Albatross. Seward 
has Kittlitz's Murrelets, Parakeet Auklets, etc. Seward Alcids are nesting in 
June. One way from Seward to Vancouver costs about the same as Homer Vancouver 
round trip. 


Richard Carlson
Full time birder,biker, Rotarian
Part-time Economist
Tucson, AZ
Lake Tahoe, CA
Kirkland, WA
Sent from my iPad

On Aug 25, 2014, at 5:18 AM, MM  wrote:

> *Enlisting help from staff and passengers*
>
>
>
> Dozens of people stopped me during my viewing time at the railings to ask
> what I was seeing. Most thought I was photographing whales, though only the
> scope and binoculars were apparent. When I described the goal of
> identifying and counting seabirds, particularly for contributing to the
> extraordinary citizen science of Cornell/Audubon's eBird program, many
> curious passengers became intrigued . They were stunned at the species and
> numbers of marine mammals I'd seen, and seemed amazed to hear of albatross
> and puffins near the boat as well as the dolphins diving under it. During
> my 11 days on the ship, I saw many albatross, puffins and at least 60
> Humpback whales, 6 Orcas, dozens of Pacific White-Sided Dolphin and Dall's
> Porpoise. The majority of people speaking with me had seen none of these,
> as few had the patience to stand at the rail for more than 2-3 minutes.
>
>
>
> But a few curious passengers would return with binoculars and cameras; some
> stayed with me for hours searching for spouts and seabirds. One sociable
> and amusing fellow San Franciscan focused on land mammals while we were in
> bays and fjords, spotting moose and mountain goats. Many enjoyed studying
> the field guides (Sibley's Birds, 2nd edition & Marine Mammals of Alaska)
> for comparisons of shearwaters and storm-petrels, dolphins and porpoises. I
> felt it important also to mention eBird, especially to young birders, as an
> avenue for them to contribute in ways that are clearly valuable to
> ornithology.
>
>
>
> The ship had a naturalist aboard but his specialty was Geology, not
> wildlife. At one point, near Glacier Bay, 3 NPS rangers boarded the ship to
> talk with passengers about the natural history of that area. One was a
> birder and was helpful in pointing out what might be in the area, but
> otherwise there wasn’t any professional assistance. Some cruises have a
> greater focus on wildlife and may have more to offer from a naturalist or
> three. I was often mistaken for the ship’s naturalist as it seemed I was at
> a post and helping passengers see wildlife for most of the daylight onboard
> hours. With the help of newfound friends and with many hours at the
> railing, I was able to identify 36 bird species and 6 marine mammal species
> while at sea.
>
>
>
> *Tracking locations for personal and public records*
>
>
>
> eBird asks that pelagic birders use latitude/longitude coordinates each
> hour at sea (http://ebird.org/content/ebird/news/pelagic-birding/). A
> Garmin hand held device was very easy for this task. Apparently cell phones
> have the technology to gather this data but I didn't use mine for this,
> preferring the Garmin GPS equipment. I suggest caution in using the cell
> phone at sea given possible roaming charges, though I believe that gaining
> GPS data doesn't involve roaming. Others want to weigh in here?
>
>
>
> A cell phone or other handheld recording device was useful for recording
> time and place each hour as well as an ongoing count of species. This freed
> me from having to write notes regularly. With practice, I was able to hold
> the small recording device (an old Sony model) as I viewed through my
> binoculars, allowing me to see a bird and describe it simultaneously.
>
>
>
> *Web access during the cruise*
>
>
>
> The least expensive internet option on board and away from cell phone
> coverage was the ship's satellite connection at $.79/minute. As a result, I
> did little web surfing. I recorded the day's sightings after dark and saved
> them until I logged on again, putting the data in the cloud. High usage
> plans are also available, though the least expensive was around $70 for 100
> minutes on a very slow web connection.
>
>
>
> Be careful about accidentally keeping your phone in roaming mode. One
> father complained to me of his daughter’s absent-minded behavior when she
> kept her roaming on and incurred a $400+ charge in two days.
>
>
>
> *Other advantages and disadvantages*
>
>
>
> Compared to the 7 or 8 pelagic birding trips I’ve taken, using a cruise
> ship for many hours of birding each day over the course of 6-7 days at sea
> (ignoring port days) was an exceptionally rewarding experience. The birds
> could be spectacular, the whales and dolphins too, the sunfish and glaciers
> and stunning sunsets all added to a fine time aboard that 900 ft. long
> behemoth.
>
>
>
> Yet there could be considerable drawbacks. If the weather had not
> cooperated, the week-and-a-half would have been closer to miserable than
> pleasurable. Two cruise trips prior to mine had 8 days of rain out of the11
> days’ journey. Though you can bird from a warm, windowed space in the
> dining hall or even a stateroom, the tinted glass and ship’s speed would be
> considerable challenges along with the very narrow viewing angle. Standing
> on deck might be possible (given safety issues), in which case winter
> birding and waterproof clothing/gear are essential.
>
>
>
> If one’s particularly sensitive to motion sickness, the cruise ship is
> vastly superior to most other boats in the world. Our huge ship barely
> reacted to 10-12 foot swells, and would likely have handled 15-20 foot
> swells easily too. Apparently sophisticated stabilizers minimize lurching
> and drifting. Yet there’s still enough motion under those conditions to
> upset stomachs, especially in the first few days at sea, before one’s had
> time to acclimate to motion. I saw passengers with scopolamine patches and
> on one afternoon I took a low dose tablet of Dramamine, but that was all I
> required. Pressure point wrist bands likely would have been fine under
> those circumstances too.
>
>
>
>
>
> Where a pelagic birding boat can chum, head for known productive sites, and
> chase rarities, the cruise ship will plow straight ahead for hours and
> days. The height of the vessel is an advantage, though fewer eyes scanning
> the horizon is a notable disadvantage. It’s intriguing to imagine what a
> birding club or group of friends could achieve with multiple stations and
> walkie-talkies. Given the short period to get on a bird, however, running
> shoes might be useful to shift from one side to the other swiftly and
> safely across a dry deck.
>
>
>
> I found this to be a relatively cost-effective trip which amounted to about
> $190/day, all-in. Many pelagic birding trips are not far from this amount,
> so when room, board, unusual waters and lengthy birding hours are included,
> it seems reasonable. Cruise pricing varies wildly according to demand, so
> look for bargains and websites that will alert you to lower costs. One
> fellow traveler told me that another trip to Alaska from Seattle, 7 days
> long, cost him $350 as a base price.
>
>
>
> Some birders have begun using the cruise lines’ repositioning opportunities
> to take a much shorter voyage. This may involve only a day or two of
> birding, but the costs are much reduced while many of the amenities are
> still available. I recommend you learn as much about the planned route as
> possible to ensure the likelihood of productive seas.
>
>
>
> I learned too from my trip that the super-birdy stretch between Ketchikan
> and Victoria can be accessed by ferry out of Bellingham, WA, Juneau &
> Homer, AK, etc. It doesn’t appear to be an inexpensive option, though
> discounts may be available at certain times of year or if the ferry wants
> to fill its berths. If you’ve had experience with this voyage and its
> costs, please add to this thread.
>
> ______________________________
>
>
>
> I hope this has been a helpful account for birders considering a cruise
> trip. Whether birding is the central focus or a side interest while aboard,
> there’s a great deal to be seen under certain circumstances. If you pursue
> the idea of casually or seriously birding at sea on a large vessel like the
> one I experienced, please consider adding your observations to Birdchat or
> other forums for birders to learn from. Feel free to post these
> observations to other birding sites for better visibility of these issues.
> Finally, contribute all you can for science and other birders by adding to
> the database of eBird. These people will, I hope, appreciate your efforts
> for millennia to come.
>
>
>
> Oscar Canino
>
> San Francisco, CA
>
> oscarboy AT gmail.com
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
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Subject: Pelagic Birding On a Cruise Ship, Part 1 of 2
From: MM <oscarboy AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 05:20:32 -0700
The following are suggestions from my recent experience aboard a large
cruise ship travelling from San Francisco to Alaska's Inner Passage. I
should note that this cruise had exceptionally favorable weather: no rain,
mostly superb visibility and light to moderate chop for the days at sea.



*Finding the best locations onboard*



Given that most ships differ considerably in architecture, it’s valuable to
explore your vessel on Day 1 in order to learn what sites are available,
the visibility, what might be wind protected, etc. During the voyage,
occasionally recheck these places for new ideas and seeing how they fare
under different conditions.



The best spots I found for identifying wildlife were typically high and
near the front of the ship. Often, though, these areas can be closed due to
high winds, rough seas or slippery decks. Alternative locations that don't
seem to be as restricted are mid-ship, but fewer birds may be seen there.
Unlike the typical boat trip to see pelagic species with 30-40 fellow
birders, cruise ships move swiftly (18-25 knots/hour) and neither chum nor
chase rarities. So getting an early glimpse and staying on the bird is
critical. That's tougher to do from the railing mid-ship and points aft.



The best spot I found on this cruise was on Deck 8, about half way up the
ship's height, at the foremost spot. It was nicely shaded from sun between
930 am and 530 pm in late July and early August. This location made it easy
to see species we were bearing down on, both on the water and in flight.
More than 180 degrees of viewing angle was possible here and it was easy to
move left or right to follow a key bird or marine mammals.



Yet in some weather conditions, this spot is very difficult to bird due to
strong winds. If the ship is moving at 15 knots into a 15 knot headwind,
the birder is contending with a 30 knot breeze. It’s tough to hold optics
steady and make clear identifications in this circumstance. Tailwinds are
ideal, neutralizing the ship’s speed and making most locations on the decks
wind-free.



Birds directly ahead on the water would sometimes stay put until the ship
was less than 50 meters away. This was particularly true of alcids, though
I saw Black-Footed Albatross behaving this way too. Often the bird would
flap and paddle to get out of the direct path without ever taking flight.
Alcids tended to dive and then come up alongside the ship; from there,
they'd dive again or 'wing row' against the ocean to gain greater distance.
From railings mid-ship on the highest deck, this behavior was clear to see
and IDs were relatively easy.



The mid-ship location has clear pluses and minuses. The ship I was on
placed blue-tinted glass panels perpendicular to the railing that could
block some wind and sound and sun. No glass panels were at the bow or
stern. I often chose port or starboard mid-ship depending on where the sun
was in order to have it at my back whenever possible. Best times, clearly,
were within 3 hours of dawn and dusk when light is more horizontal. The
viewing angle from mid-ship was about 90 degrees, sometimes a bit more if
conditions and proximity to the bird/mammal were good.



The largest drawback to this location was noise from the ship's
entertainment programs. Consistently accessible sites were close to the
huge video monitor that played movies, documentaries and on-board
programming. From 6am to 10pm, there were perhaps 2-3 hours when there
wasn't very loud audio. I kept an iPod and headphones handy, but friends I
made onboard wanted to watch the ocean with me and engage in conversation
for much of the day. On Deck 8, far from the audio/video entertainment,
there were even more people stopping to ask questions and study the
wildlife since that area is part of the running/walking track on the ship.



*Anticipating the best areas*



Our cruise moved northwest from San Francisco to Skagway, AK, then began a
southeastern and southern journey back to SF. For parts of this voyage,
there was very little activity (day 2 had a total of 5 birds). On other
days there was constant seabirding from dawn to dusk.



Part of the explanation for this, given my weak understanding of oceans,
nutrients and seabirds, has to do with the upwelling of the ocean when it
hits the continental shelf. These very cold waters rise rapidly to the
surface and carry vast amounts of food to the surface. At these points
there’s a marine buffet attended by many mammals and, potentially,
thousands of seabirds.



The most productive birding occurred when we were around these upwelling
seas. In particular, the leg from Ketchikan, AK to Victoria, BC was superb.
Had I planned a bit better, I might have known in advance when we’d arrive
at these spots.



Luckily on the ship there was a marine map plotting our course and
indicating ocean depths. This gave me some idea of where and when to pay
closest attention to the seas. Also, when exhausted, I could take comfort
knowing that a particular patch of ocean was likely to be minimally
productive and I could grab some sleep before we entered more birdy waters.



If you don’t see a map posted like this, inquire at passenger services and
they’ll likely provide you with the data you’re looking for.



*Choosing optical equipment*



To my surprise, a high-powered scope on a heavy tripod worked very well. My
eyepiece zooms 20x-75x, but using it to get on birds that were apparent
naked-eye or with binoculars took a bit of practice. This new skill paid
large benefits for easier ID of rapidly moving albatross, storm-petrels,
petrels, jaegers, terns, whales, etc. If I'd had a camera with a lens of
400mm-600mm, I might have used that instead for identifying species and
documenting with photographs. But one advantage of the scope, an angled one
in particular, was letting others use it, even 8 year-old children who were
thrilled to look across the horizon at dozens of shearwaters and albatross.



One birder who showed up briefly in the early stages of the voyage had 15x
stabilized binoculars from Canon. They appeared heavy for extended use, but
in choppy seas they may have been the best for getting on and staying on
birds. She loved using them and didn’t seem to mind the weight, though I
didn’t see her holding them up for more than 10 seconds at a time.


Oscar Canino
San Francisco, CA
oscarboy AT gmail.com

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Subject: Pelagic Birding On a Cruise Ship, Part 2 of 2
From: MM <oscarboy AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 05:18:11 -0700
*Enlisting help from staff and passengers*



Dozens of people stopped me during my viewing time at the railings to ask
what I was seeing. Most thought I was photographing whales, though only the
scope and binoculars were apparent. When I described the goal of
identifying and counting seabirds, particularly for contributing to the
extraordinary citizen science of Cornell/Audubon's eBird program, many
curious passengers became intrigued . They were stunned at the species and
numbers of marine mammals I'd seen, and seemed amazed to hear of albatross
and puffins near the boat as well as the dolphins diving under it. During
my 11 days on the ship, I saw many albatross, puffins and at least 60
Humpback whales, 6 Orcas, dozens of Pacific White-Sided Dolphin and Dall's
Porpoise. The majority of people speaking with me had seen none of these,
as few had the patience to stand at the rail for more than 2-3 minutes.



But a few curious passengers would return with binoculars and cameras; some
stayed with me for hours searching for spouts and seabirds. One sociable
and amusing fellow San Franciscan focused on land mammals while we were in
bays and fjords, spotting moose and mountain goats. Many enjoyed studying
the field guides (Sibley's Birds, 2nd edition & Marine Mammals of Alaska)
for comparisons of shearwaters and storm-petrels, dolphins and porpoises. I
felt it important also to mention eBird, especially to young birders, as an
avenue for them to contribute in ways that are clearly valuable to
ornithology.



The ship had a naturalist aboard but his specialty was Geology, not
wildlife. At one point, near Glacier Bay, 3 NPS rangers boarded the ship to
talk with passengers about the natural history of that area. One was a
birder and was helpful in pointing out what might be in the area, but
otherwise there wasn’t any professional assistance. Some cruises have a
greater focus on wildlife and may have more to offer from a naturalist or
three. I was often mistaken for the ship’s naturalist as it seemed I was at
a post and helping passengers see wildlife for most of the daylight onboard
hours. With the help of newfound friends and with many hours at the
railing, I was able to identify 36 bird species and 6 marine mammal species
while at sea.



*Tracking locations for personal and public records*



eBird asks that pelagic birders use latitude/longitude coordinates each
hour at sea (http://ebird.org/content/ebird/news/pelagic-birding/). A
Garmin hand held device was very easy for this task. Apparently cell phones
have the technology to gather this data but I didn't use mine for this,
preferring the Garmin GPS equipment. I suggest caution in using the cell
phone at sea given possible roaming charges, though I believe that gaining
GPS data doesn't involve roaming. Others want to weigh in here?



A cell phone or other handheld recording device was useful for recording
time and place each hour as well as an ongoing count of species. This freed
me from having to write notes regularly. With practice, I was able to hold
the small recording device (an old Sony model) as I viewed through my
binoculars, allowing me to see a bird and describe it simultaneously.



*Web access during the cruise*



The least expensive internet option on board and away from cell phone
coverage was the ship's satellite connection at $.79/minute. As a result, I
did little web surfing. I recorded the day's sightings after dark and saved
them until I logged on again, putting the data in the cloud. High usage
plans are also available, though the least expensive was around $70 for 100
minutes on a very slow web connection.



Be careful about accidentally keeping your phone in roaming mode. One
father complained to me of his daughter’s absent-minded behavior when she
kept her roaming on and incurred a $400+ charge in two days.



*Other advantages and disadvantages*



Compared to the 7 or 8 pelagic birding trips I’ve taken, using a cruise
ship for many hours of birding each day over the course of 6-7 days at sea
(ignoring port days) was an exceptionally rewarding experience. The birds
could be spectacular, the whales and dolphins too, the sunfish and glaciers
and stunning sunsets all added to a fine time aboard that 900 ft. long
behemoth.



Yet there could be considerable drawbacks. If the weather had not
cooperated, the week-and-a-half would have been closer to miserable than
pleasurable. Two cruise trips prior to mine had 8 days of rain out of the11
days’ journey. Though you can bird from a warm, windowed space in the
dining hall or even a stateroom, the tinted glass and ship’s speed would be
considerable challenges along with the very narrow viewing angle. Standing
on deck might be possible (given safety issues), in which case winter
birding and waterproof clothing/gear are essential.



If one’s particularly sensitive to motion sickness, the cruise ship is
vastly superior to most other boats in the world. Our huge ship barely
reacted to 10-12 foot swells, and would likely have handled 15-20 foot
swells easily too. Apparently sophisticated stabilizers minimize lurching
and drifting. Yet there’s still enough motion under those conditions to
upset stomachs, especially in the first few days at sea, before one’s had
time to acclimate to motion. I saw passengers with scopolamine patches and
on one afternoon I took a low dose tablet of Dramamine, but that was all I
required. Pressure point wrist bands likely would have been fine under
those circumstances too.





Where a pelagic birding boat can chum, head for known productive sites, and
chase rarities, the cruise ship will plow straight ahead for hours and
days. The height of the vessel is an advantage, though fewer eyes scanning
the horizon is a notable disadvantage. It’s intriguing to imagine what a
birding club or group of friends could achieve with multiple stations and
walkie-talkies. Given the short period to get on a bird, however, running
shoes might be useful to shift from one side to the other swiftly and
safely across a dry deck.



I found this to be a relatively cost-effective trip which amounted to about
$190/day, all-in. Many pelagic birding trips are not far from this amount,
so when room, board, unusual waters and lengthy birding hours are included,
it seems reasonable. Cruise pricing varies wildly according to demand, so
look for bargains and websites that will alert you to lower costs. One
fellow traveler told me that another trip to Alaska from Seattle, 7 days
long, cost him $350 as a base price.



Some birders have begun using the cruise lines’ repositioning opportunities
to take a much shorter voyage. This may involve only a day or two of
birding, but the costs are much reduced while many of the amenities are
still available. I recommend you learn as much about the planned route as
possible to ensure the likelihood of productive seas.



I learned too from my trip that the super-birdy stretch between Ketchikan
and Victoria can be accessed by ferry out of Bellingham, WA, Juneau &
Homer, AK, etc. It doesn’t appear to be an inexpensive option, though
discounts may be available at certain times of year or if the ferry wants
to fill its berths. If you’ve had experience with this voyage and its
costs, please add to this thread.

 ______________________________



I hope this has been a helpful account for birders considering a cruise
trip. Whether birding is the central focus or a side interest while aboard,
there’s a great deal to be seen under certain circumstances. If you pursue
the idea of casually or seriously birding at sea on a large vessel like the
one I experienced, please consider adding your observations to Birdchat or
other forums for birders to learn from. Feel free to post these
observations to other birding sites for better visibility of these issues.
Finally, contribute all you can for science and other birders by adding to
the database of eBird. These people will, I hope, appreciate your efforts
for millennia to come.



Oscar Canino

San Francisco, CA

oscarboy AT gmail.com

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Subject: Special 6-week project at EHN.org on bird environmental health science
From: JPMyers <jpmyers AT AOL.COM>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 14:28:59 +0200
True, I've not been a practicing ornithologist for 25 years, and I suspect some 
of you would challenge even before that. Endocrine disruption is just too much 
fun. So much good news. Not. 


BUT!  

The nonprofit news operation I launched 13 years ago, EHN.org, has recruited a 
team of world class freelance reporters to launch a special 6-week project on 
bird environmental health science. What can we learn from bird threats about 
people, and vice-versa? 18 stories in all. 


It starts Monday August 25. Our reporters follow the risks to birds large and 
small – from eagles and ospreys to songbirds – and what those risks may 
mean for human health and the environment. 


National Geographic is republishing a selection of the stories beginning next 
week, one each day Monday through Friday. EHN is thrilled to be partnering with 
one of the world’s most distinguished science and environment publishers for 
the series, "Winged Warnings." Make that 

"Beak Week" instead of "Shark Week."

A summary of our stories is here, http://bit.ly/VLKrNY

and an introductory video on our YouTube channel is here. http://bit.ly/1ByJeL2 


You'll be able to see new stories on our home page, EHN.org and at 
News.NationalGeographic.com all next week and then at a pace of about 2 per 
week for the next 5 weeks after that. 


Birds are at risk from long-banned pesticides like DDT; ubiquitous ones like 
neonicotinoids; human-influenced diseases; chemicals including flame 
retardants; lead contamination and much more. The bottom line is that every 
bird is a Canary in the Coal Mine. 


For those of you at universities, this might provide useful teaching material 
about how science intersects with the media. 


Please share broadly.

And if you tweet, pun intended, use the #wingedwarnings hashtag.


Best wishes,
Pete Myers
White Hall VA


John Peterson Myers, Ph.D.
CEO/Chief Scientist
Environmental Health Sciences
421 Park St.
Charlottesville VA 22902
Adjunct Professor of Chemistry
Carnegie Mellon University
EnvironmentalHealthNews.org
DailyClimate.org
434-220-0348
jpmyers AT ehn.org
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Subject: BirdNote, last week & the week of Aug. 24, 2014
From: Ellen Blackstone <ellen AT 123IMAGINE.NET>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 05:24:36 -0700
Hello, BirdChat,

Last week, BirdNote aired:

* Sky Dancing Raptors - A Rare Sight
http://bit.ly/Q51jcJ

* "You Need a Mister!" -- A misunderstanding...
http://bit.ly/1p2Eaoa

* Great Blue Heron, Alone Again
http://bit.ly/TX50S4

* Shifts in Habitat = Shifts in Species, With David Sibley
http://bit.ly/1tn3I3V

* Willow Flycatcher -The Last Sneeze of Summer
http://bit.ly/1oiQgte

* Sapsuckers and Sap - Why don't they get stuck?
http://bit.ly/LYFUkS

* The Gulls of Summer

http://bit.ly/OtAqzq

------------------------------------------------------------
View the photos and links for next week's shows: http://p0.vresp.com/RHS0rA
------------------------------------------------------------
Travel to Cuba with BirdNote and Earthbound Expeditions, October 18th -
26th, 2014. Join us on a unique trip to experience the culture, history,
and birds of this vibrant island. http://bit.ly/1sOyNyW
-----------------------------------------------------------
Find us on Facebook. Search for birdnote.
... or Follow us on Twitter. Search for birdnoteradio
=========================================
You can listen to the mp3, see a photo, and read the transcript for a
show, plus sign up for weekly mail or the podcast, and find related
resources on the website. http://www.birdnote.org You'll find 1200+
episodes in the archive.

Thanks for listening!
Ellen Blackstone, BirdNote

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Subject: a bird-themed citizen science video game
From: Devorah the Ornithologist <birdologist AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:36:42 +0100
hey everyone,

thanks to my pals, currently at IOC26 in Tokyo who are sharing so many
wonderful things with me via twitter, i've got something fun to share with
all of you, too.

do you love hidden object video games? do you like helping scientists with
their research? if so, you will LOVE this research project into the
evolution of egg camouflage for three species of ground-nesting birds. it's
citizen science and yes, it's so much fun! give it a go here:

https://nightjar.exeter.ac.uk/egglab/

i warn you: it's fun, it's interesting and dang, but it's addictive.

cheers,

--
GrrlScientist
Devorah Bennu, PhD
http://www.grrlscientist.net/
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461
ff.]

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Subject: 1st World Shorebirds Day, 6 September
From: Gyorgy Szimuly <gyorgy.szimuly AT MAC.COM>
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 21:28:43 +0100
Dear All,

My last update about the very first World Shorebirds Day was posted months ago. 
Let me share a few details with you. Id like to encourage you to support this 
initiative by taking a part of it. 


The 6th of September is selected for celebrating shorebirds and raising public 
awareness for the need of conservation, research and fundraising. 


Birdwatchers and researchers have joined the Global Shorebird Counting Program, 
and nearly 300 sites have already been registered covering many of the 
shorebird sites of international importance. Please find the map of the 
registered sites: 
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z3yRwAVo2mAw.k42bDqIRe7a4 


If you have not joined yet, please think about it and register your site where 
you go counting shorebirds on 6-7 September. 
(http://worldshorebirdsday.wordpress.com/global-shorebird-counting/) 


Last but not least, the shorebird community voted for the Shorebirds of the 
Year for this year. The enigmatic Spoon-billed Sandpiper was selected and will 
hold this title until 15/08/2015. All of our fundraising activity will focus 
this species. However, I have already opened the new poll to decide which 
shorebird will be chosen for the 2015/2016 shorebird year. 
http://worldshorebirdsday.wordpress.com/2014/08/19/shorebirds-of-the-year-2015-poll-opens/ 
Maybe a North American species will be selected. :) 


Come and join us and celebrating shorebirds on the 6th of September.

Best regards, Szimi
_
Gyorgy Szimuly
Coordinator of the Global Events of the World Shorebirds Day
Milton Keynes, UK
http://worldshorebirdsday.wordpress.com
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Subject: Fall Migration Banding
From: "R.D. Everhart" <everhart AT BLACK-HOLE.COM>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:12:40 -0500
   We have started our fall bird banding season with last Saturday's
session at the Lowry Nature Center near Victoria, Minnesota. It was a
good day with good diversity. I have posted photos and a list of
birds banded at:

http://minnesotabirdnerd.blogspot.com


  Our next public program will be the 3rd Saturday of September.

Roger Everhart
North Central Bird Observatory
Apple Valley, MN

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Subject: New River Hummingbird Festival (23 Aug)
From: "Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" <research AT HILTONPOND.ORG>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:19:13 -0400
New River Hummingbird Festival
(hummingbird banding demonstration)
Saturday, August 23
8 am until noon
Lively Family Amphitheater, at the corner of Kelly Avenue and Main Street
Oak Hill WV

No admission charge
Hummingbird feeders & Operation RubyThroat T-shirts for sale

Details at https://www.facebook.com/NewRiverBirdingNatureCenter

Hope to see you there!

BILL

=========

Please "Like" our new Facebook pages at http://www.facebook.com/HiltonPond for 
timely updates on nature topics, 

and for info about hummingbirds at http://www.facebook.com/rubythroats

Follow us on Twitter  AT hiltonpond
=========

RESEARCH PROGRAM
c/o BILL HILTON JR., D.Sci.
Executive Director
Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History
1432 DeVinney Road, York, South Carolina 29745 USA
office & cell (803) 684-5852

Please visit our web sites (courtesy of Comporium.net):
Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History at http://www.hiltonpond.org
"Operation RubyThroat: The Hummingbird Project" at http://www.rubythroat.org

==================

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Subject: Hilton Pond 08/01/14 (Truth About Ruby-throats)
From: "Bill Hilton Jr. (RESEARCH)" <research AT HILTONPOND.ORG>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 09:28:05 -0400
Ruby-throated Hummingbirds may be the most common and best understood of all 
hummer species, but misinformation about these tiny birds always seems to float 
around. "This Week at Hilton Pond" I offer a photo essay to clear up incorrect 
information I've read lately about ruby-throat behavior and morphology. To view 
this latest "fact-checking" installment for 1-15 August 2014, please visit 
http://www.hiltonpond.org/ThisWeek140801.html 


While there don't forget to scroll down for miscellaneous nature notes and a 
list of all birds banded and recaptured during the period, plus info about 
banding hummers in the Neotropics. 


Happy Hummingbird Watching!

BILL

Please "Like" our new Facebook pages at http://www.facebook.com/HiltonPond for 
timely updates on nature topics, 

and for info about hummingbirds at http://www.facebook.com/rubythroats

Follow us on Twitter  AT hiltonpond
=========

RESEARCH PROGRAM
c/o BILL HILTON JR., D.Sci.
Executive Director
Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History
1432 DeVinney Road, York, South Carolina 29745 USA
office & cell (803) 684-5852

Please visit our web sites (courtesy of Comporium.net):
Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History at http://www.hiltonpond.org 
"Operation RubyThroat: The Hummingbird Project" at http://www.rubythroat.org

==================


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Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: 9th Supplement to 6th edition of the Clements Checklist!
From: dmark <dmark AT BUFFALO.EDU>
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 20:38:09 -0400
Dear BIRDCHATters:

The 9th set of updates and corrections to the Sixth Edition of The
Clements Checklist
of Birds of the World is out!

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/clementschecklist/2014-overview/

There are links to download an Excel spreadsheet of the revised
checklist, and
there is also a document describing all the updates and corrections.

I'm surprised that there has not been an announcement on BIRDCHAT, or I
missed it,
but maybe I got lucky and happened to check just as it was posted.

Personally, I am anxious to see whether my World Life List increases or
decreases
due to the changes between versions 6/8 and 6.9!

David

David Mark
Amherst, NY
dmark AT buffalo.edu

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Subject: Birding Community E-bulletin - August 2014
From: Barbara Volkle and Steve Moore <barb620 AT THEWORLD.COM>
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 17:44:48 -0400
The August 2014 issue of the Birding Community E-bulletin is now
available the web, covering news and issues relevant to birders.

Please share with birders you know!

Scroll to the bottom for information on how to subscribe directly.

Barbara Volkle
Northborough, MA
barb620 AT theworld.com

* * *

This Birding Community E-bulletin is designed for active and
concerned birders, those dedicated to the joys of birding and the
protection of birds and their habitats.

This issue is sponsored by the producers of superb quality birding
binoculars and scopes, Carl Zeiss Sport Optics:

http://sportsoptics.zeiss.com/nature/en_us/home.html 


You can access this issue and the archive of past E-bulletins on the
website of the National Wildlife Refuge Association (NWRA):

http://refugeassociation.org/news/birding-bulletin/ 




The August 2014 edition includes the following topics:

RARITY FOCUS
   - Plain-capped Starthroats in southeastern Arizona

ACCESS MATTERS: THE SANTA RITA LODGE EXAMPLE
   - located in the Santa Rita Mountains, at the heart of Madera
Canyon
     in the Coronado National Forest it offers a popular consolidated
viewing
     area for visitors and lodge guests alike

WOODCOCK REPORT
   - significant decline in the Central Region

LOOKING AT A SAGE-GROUSE DEADLINE
   - September 2015 deadline to decide whether or not to list the
Greater
     Sage-Grouse under the Endangered Species Act (ESA)

SAGE-GROUSE FEMBOT
   - studies at a sage-grouse lek, or mating ground, from a female's
     eye view

TIP OF THE MONTH: HERE COMES THE SUN
   - keep the sun at your back while in the field - planning before
your
     birding trip

BIRDS AND DINOSAURS: FEATHER CONSIDERATIONS
   - feathers may have been far more widespread in dinosaurs than
previously thought

IBA NEWS: PANAMA BAY STRUGGLE CONTINUES
   - altering the boundaries of the existing protected area

ROOSTING CHIMNEY SWIFTS IN THE MARITIMES
   - Chimney Swift monitoring efforts in New Brunswick and Nova
Scotia

80 YEARS AGO: THE FIRST DUCK STAMPS SOLD
   - approximately $900 million have been collected through the sale
     of this stamp, and over 5.5 million acres of wetland, grassland,

     riparian, and bottomland habitats in the National Wildlife
Refuge
     System secured

100 YEARS AGO: MARTHA
   - the last Passenger Pigeon

- - - - - - - -

You can access past E-bulletins on the National Wildlife Refuge
Association (NWRA) website:

http://refugeassociation.org/news/birding-bulletin/ 



If you wish to receive the bulletin or have any friends or co-workers

who want to get onto the monthly E-bulletin mailing list, have them
contact either:

Wayne R. Petersen
Director Massachusetts Important Bird Areas (IBA)
Program Mass Audubon
wpetersen-at-massaudubon.org

Paul J. Baicich
Great Birding Projects
paul.baicich-at-verizon.net

If you wish to distribute all or parts of any of the monthly Birding
Community E-bulletins, they simply request that you mention the
source
of any material used. (Include a URL for the E-bulletin archives, if
possible.)

We never lend or sell our E-bulletin recipient list.


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Subject: BirdNote, last week & the week of Aug. 17, 2014
From: Ellen Blackstone <ellen AT 123IMAGINE.NET>
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 14:17:40 -0700
Hello, BirdChat,

Last week, BirdNote aired:

* Pied-billed Grebe Pair Switches Roles
http://bit.ly/MLhrkA

* Hawaiian Petrels Atop Haleakala Volcano
http://bit.ly/14KA1QC

* Common Nighthawk, Uncommon Sound
http://bit.ly/1oZXQ17

* Advice to Beginning Birders from David Sibley
http://bit.ly/Y4x3X1

* How Birds Drink
http://bit.ly/N6bF7r

* Bird Life at the Grand Canyon
http://bit.ly/18B75Kk

* Flammulated Owl, Summer Visitor
http://bit.ly/RRX7QF

------------------------------------------------------------
View the photos and links for next week's shows: http://bit.ly/1yKPtY1
------------------------------------------------------------
Travel to Cuba with BirdNote and Earthbound Expeditions! October 18th -
26th, 2014. Join us on a unique trip to experience the culture, history,
and birds of this vibrant island.  http://bit.ly/1sOyNyW
-----------------------------------------------------------
Find us on Facebook. Search for birdnote.
... or Follow us on Twitter. Search for birdnoteradio
=========================================
You can listen to the mp3, see a photo, and read the transcript for a
show, plus sign up for weekly mail or the podcast, and find related
resources on the website. http://www.birdnote.org You'll find nearly
1200 episodes in the archive.

Thanks for listening!
Ellen Blackstone, BirdNote

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Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Competition for ecological niches limits evolution of new songbirds
From: Devorah the Ornithologist <birdologist AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:16:17 +0100
hello everyone,

I just published this piece that discusses a truly lovely paper about
Himalayan songbirds. This paper finds that competition for ecological
niches (NOT reproductive isolation) affects the rate of speciation in
songbirds. It also finds that, as these niches fill up with species, the
rate of speciation slows or stops altogether. there are lots of other
interesting nuances that this leads to, which are also mentioned in the
piece:


http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist/2014/aug/14/birds-evolution-phylogeny-speciation-ecology-himalayas?view=classic 


of course, it includes lots of pretty pictures of gorgeous songbirds --
including one astonishingly rare songbird that none of us have ever seen --
along with lots of breathtaking pics of the himalayas that make me want
very much to visit! (i may try to weasel my way into the next expedition,
to document everything, of course!)

cheers,

--
GrrlScientist
Devorah Bennu, PhD
birdologist AT gmail.com
http://about.me/grrlscientist 
http://www.grrlscientist.net/
http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist
http://www.theguardian.com/science/grrlscientist

*sunt lacrimae rerum et mentem mortalia tangunt. [*Virgil, *Aeneid*, 1.461
ff.]

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Subject: Petrel
From: Al Schirmacher <alschirmacher AT LIVE.COM>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 06:48:38 -0500
Joan of Arc was walking along the rocky shore of France one afternoon. She 
stopped to look at some pictures in the rocks, turned to her friend Simon, and 
asked, 


"What bird is that in the petre - petro- petrel-thingy there in the rock wall?"

Petrel, derived from petroglyph.  Case solved:)

Al Schirmacher
Muscotah, KS

Sent from my iPhone

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Subject: "petrel"
From: Rick Wright <birdaz AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:07:56 -0400
You're right: it would have been fabrication only had Laura Erickson
claimed to know what that "original, lost name" looked like. The mere
assertion of the existence of that "original, lost name" is different--
Best,
rick

Rick Wright
Bloomfield, NJ

Review Editor, Birding 
Senior Leader, WINGS 
Birding New Jersey 
ABA Field Guide to Birds of New Jersey

 


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Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: Eric Jeffrey <ecj100 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:55:25 -0400
Thanks Barry! As you know, I share your frustrations. The world is too complex 
to be governed by simple, and simplistic, assumptions. 

 
Best
 
Eric Jeffrey
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry K. MacKay 
To: 'Eric Jeffrey' ; BIRDCHAT 
Sent: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 5:50 pm
Subject: RE: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"



Good point.
 
I get tired of the times I’ve had people and agencies decide major policy on 
the bases of presumptions derived at without adequate consideration of other 
views or data, which is what I was thinking of at the time. I agree that Laura 
didn’t do that, thus “fabrication” is incorrect, she made quite valid 
speculation, indeed, and speculation has none of the negativity that comes with 
fabrication. 

 
Cheers,
 
Barry
 
 
Barry Kent MacKay
Bird Artist, Illustrator
Studio: (905)-472-9731
http://www.barrykentmackay.ca
mimus AT sympatico.ca
Markham, Ontario, Canada
 
 
From: Eric Jeffrey [mailto:ecj100 AT aol.com] 
Sent: August-11-14 5:30 PM
To: mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA; BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"
 

Much as I respect Rick and Barry, I have to object to their comparison of 
Laura's "suspicion" to a fabrication. When one states a suspicion, one simply 
states a logical possibility, which this certainly was. A fabrication, in 
contrast, is a deliberate lie, or cock & bull story, which would seem 
potentially applicable only if one made a more affirmative statement that ____ 
is true, despite an absence of evidence. In any event, to the best of my aging 
memory, one of Laura's early posts on the matter cited some etymological 
sources. 


 

In sum, speculation, perhaps; fabrication, no.

 

Eric Jeffrey

Falls Church, VA

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Barry K. MacKay 
To: BIRDCHAT 
Sent: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 4:06 pm
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

Oh hey,  I thought everyone knew!
 
Okay, when you fill up your tank with gas in North America you call it "gas" 
but 

in England, they say "petrol".
 
Petrol is derived from oil.
 
Petrels are oily.
 
Therefore petrel is just a misspelling of petrol.
 
Glad I got that straightened out.
 
Just kidding, of course, but as Rick says (and I quite agree), absent a source 
is the same as fabrication.
 
Great thread, though.
 
Cheers,
 
Barry
 
 
Barry Kent MacKay
Bird Artist, Illustrator
Studio: (905)-472-9731
http://www.barrykentmackay.ca
mimus AT sympatico.ca
Markham, Ontario, Canada
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] 

On Behalf Of Rick Wright
Sent: August-11-14 3:24 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"
 
Writes Laura Erickson:
 
"I suspect the "petrel" form of the bird's name may indeed have rose [!] from 
some original, lost name's similarity to the word Peter, due to the bird's 
easily observable habits."
 
One can suspect all one wants, but absent a source, suspicion is the same as 
fabrication.
 
Rick Wright
Bloomfield, NJ
 
Review Editor, Birding 
Senior Leader, WINGS 
Birding New Jersey  ABA Field Guide to Birds of 
New 

Jersey 
 

 
BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
 
BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html




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Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:49:55 -0400
Good point.



I get tired of the times I've had people and agencies decide major policy on
the bases of presumptions derived at without adequate consideration of other
views or data, which is what I was thinking of at the time.  I agree that
Laura didn't do that, thus "fabrication" is incorrect, she made quite valid
speculation, indeed, and speculation has none of the negativity that comes
with fabrication.



Cheers,



Barry





Barry Kent MacKay

Bird Artist, Illustrator

Studio: (905)-472-9731

http://www.barrykentmackay.ca
mimus AT sympatico.ca

Markham, Ontario, Canada





From: Eric Jeffrey [mailto:ecj100 AT aol.com]
Sent: August-11-14 5:30 PM
To: mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA; BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"



Much as I respect Rick and Barry, I have to object to their comparison of
Laura's "suspicion" to a fabrication.  When one states a suspicion, one
simply states a logical possibility, which this certainly was.  A
fabrication, in contrast, is a deliberate lie, or cock & bull story, which
would seem potentially applicable only if one made a more affirmative
statement that ____ is true, despite an absence of evidence.  In any event,
to the best of my aging memory, one of Laura's early posts on the matter
cited some etymological sources.



In sum, speculation, perhaps; fabrication, no.



Eric Jeffrey

Falls Church, VA





-----Original Message-----
From: Barry K. MacKay 
To: BIRDCHAT 
Sent: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 4:06 pm
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

Oh hey,  I thought everyone knew!

Okay, when you fill up your tank with gas in North America you call it "gas"
but
in England, they say "petrol".

Petrol is derived from oil.

Petrels are oily.

Therefore petrel is just a misspelling of petrol.

Glad I got that straightened out.

Just kidding, of course, but as Rick says (and I quite agree), absent a
source
is the same as fabrication.

Great thread, though.

Cheers,

Barry


Barry Kent MacKay
Bird Artist, Illustrator
Studio: (905)-472-9731
http://www.barrykentmackay.ca
mimus AT sympatico.ca
Markham, Ontario, Canada




-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line)
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU  ]
On Behalf Of Rick Wright
Sent: August-11-14 3:24 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

Writes Laura Erickson:

"I suspect the "petrel" form of the bird's name may indeed have rose [!]
from
some original, lost name's similarity to the word Peter, due to the bird's
easily observable habits."

One can suspect all one wants, but absent a source, suspicion is the same as

fabrication.

Rick Wright
Bloomfield, NJ

Review Editor, Birding 
Senior Leader, WINGS 
Birding New Jersey  ABA Field Guide to Birds of
New
Jersey
 &qid=1401460984&sr=8-1&keywords=aba+field+guide+birds+new+jersey>

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Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: Eric Jeffrey <ecj100 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:29:42 -0400
Much as I respect Rick and Barry, I have to object to their comparison of 
Laura's "suspicion" to a fabrication. When one states a suspicion, one simply 
states a logical possibility, which this certainly was. A fabrication, in 
contrast, is a deliberate lie, or cock & bull story, which would seem 
potentially applicable only if one made a more affirmative statement that ____ 
is true, despite an absence of evidence. In any event, to the best of my aging 
memory, one of Laura's early posts on the matter cited some etymological 
sources. 


In sum, speculation, perhaps; fabrication, no.

Eric Jeffrey
Falls Church, VA
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry K. MacKay 
To: BIRDCHAT 
Sent: Mon, Aug 11, 2014 4:06 pm
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"


Oh hey,  I thought everyone knew!

Okay, when you fill up your tank with gas in North America you call it "gas" 
but 

in England, they say "petrol".

Petrol is derived from oil.

Petrels are oily.

Therefore petrel is just a misspelling of petrol.

Glad I got that straightened out.

Just kidding, of course, but as Rick says (and I quite agree), absent a source 
is the same as fabrication.

Great thread, though.

Cheers,

Barry


Barry Kent MacKay
Bird Artist, Illustrator
Studio: (905)-472-9731
http://www.barrykentmackay.ca
mimus AT sympatico.ca
Markham, Ontario, Canada




-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] 

On Behalf Of Rick Wright
Sent: August-11-14 3:24 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

Writes Laura Erickson:

"I suspect the "petrel" form of the bird's name may indeed have rose [!] from 
some original, lost name's similarity to the word Peter, due to the bird's 
easily observable habits."

One can suspect all one wants, but absent a source, suspicion is the same as 
fabrication.

Rick Wright
Bloomfield, NJ

Review Editor, Birding 
Senior Leader, WINGS 
Birding New Jersey  ABA Field Guide to Birds of 
New 

Jersey 
 


BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

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Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

 

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Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 16:04:35 -0400
Oh hey,  I thought everyone knew!

Okay, when you fill up your tank with gas in North America you call it "gas" 
but in England, they say "petrol". 


Petrol is derived from oil.

Petrels are oily.

Therefore petrel is just a misspelling of petrol.

Glad I got that straightened out.

Just kidding, of course, but as Rick says (and I quite agree), absent a source 
is the same as fabrication. 


Great thread, though.

Cheers,

Barry


Barry Kent MacKay
Bird Artist, Illustrator
Studio: (905)-472-9731
http://www.barrykentmackay.ca
mimus AT sympatico.ca
Markham, Ontario, Canada




-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick Wright 

Sent: August-11-14 3:24 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

Writes Laura Erickson:

"I suspect the "petrel" form of the bird's name may indeed have rose [!] from 
some original, lost name's similarity to the word Peter, due to the bird's 
easily observable habits." 


One can suspect all one wants, but absent a source, suspicion is the same as 
fabrication. 


Rick Wright
Bloomfield, NJ

Review Editor, Birding 
Senior Leader, WINGS 
Birding New Jersey  ABA Field Guide to Birds of 
New Jersey 
 


BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
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Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: Rick Wright <birdaz AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 16:02:00 -0400
And with that, this conversation peters out....
r


On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Alvaro Jaramillo 
wrote:

> I have it, St. Peter was named for the Petrel whose name comes from
> pitter-patter.
>
> This makes complete sense. :-)
>
> Alvaro Jaramillo
> alvaro AT alvarosadventures.com
> www.alvarosadventures.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:
> BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick Wright
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 12:24 PM
> To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"
>
> Writes Laura Erickson:
>
> "I suspect the "petrel" form of the bird's name may indeed have rose [!]
> from some original, lost name's similarity to the word Peter, due to the
> bird's easily observable habits."
>
> One can suspect all one wants, but absent a source, suspicion is the same
> as fabrication.
>
> Rick Wright
> Bloomfield, NJ
>
> Review Editor, Birding 
> Senior Leader, WINGS 
> Birding New Jersey  ABA Field Guide to Birds
> of New Jersey <
> 
http://www.amazon.com/American-Birding-Association-Field-Jersey/dp/1935622420/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401460984&sr=8-1&keywords=aba+field+guide+birds+new+jersey 

> >
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>
>


--
Rick Wright
Bloomfield, NJ

Review Editor, Birding 
Senior Leader, WINGS 
Birding New Jersey 
ABA Field Guide to Birds of New Jersey

 


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Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: Elizabeth Dodd <edodd AT KSU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:01:12 +0000
Actually, I have always thought that the name was a corruption of "Petrol" for 
its dark coloration. 


;)
Elizabeth Dodd
Manhattan, KS

________________________________________
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
 on behalf of Alvaro Jaramillo 
 

Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 2:54 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

I have it, St. Peter was named for the Petrel whose name comes from 
pitter-patter. 


This makes complete sense. :-)

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro AT alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick Wright 

Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 12:24 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

Writes Laura Erickson:

"I suspect the "petrel" form of the bird's name may indeed have rose [!] from 
some original, lost name's similarity to the word Peter, due to the bird's 
easily observable habits." 


One can suspect all one wants, but absent a source, suspicion is the same as 
fabrication. 


Rick Wright
Bloomfield, NJ

Review Editor, Birding 
Senior Leader, WINGS 
Birding New Jersey  ABA Field Guide to Birds of 
New Jersey 
 


BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

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Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao AT COASTSIDE.NET>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 12:54:38 -0700
I have it, St. Peter was named for the Petrel whose name comes from 
pitter-patter. 


This makes complete sense. :-)

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro AT alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick Wright 

Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 12:24 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

Writes Laura Erickson:

"I suspect the "petrel" form of the bird's name may indeed have rose [!] from 
some original, lost name's similarity to the word Peter, due to the bird's 
easily observable habits." 


One can suspect all one wants, but absent a source, suspicion is the same as 
fabrication. 


Rick Wright
Bloomfield, NJ

Review Editor, Birding 
Senior Leader, WINGS 
Birding New Jersey  ABA Field Guide to Birds of 
New Jersey 
 


BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
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Subject: "petrel"
From: Rick Wright <birdaz AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 15:23:52 -0400
Writes Laura Erickson:

"I suspect the "petrel" form of the bird's name may indeed have rose [!]
from some original, lost name's similarity to the word Peter, due to the
bird's easily observable habits."

One can suspect all one wants, but absent a source, suspicion is the same
as fabrication.

Rick Wright
Bloomfield, NJ

Review Editor, Birding 
Senior Leader, WINGS 
Birding New Jersey 
ABA Field Guide to Birds of New Jersey

 


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Subject: Re: "dadin"
From: Laura Erickson <bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 09:55:29 -0500
It's of course possible, and perhaps likely, that newer forms of some words
take shape specifically because of associations people make between
original roots of the word lost in the murky past and more familiar
concepts. In this case, I suspect the "petrel" form of the bird's name may
indeed have rose from some original, lost name's similarity to the word
Peter, due to the bird's easily observable habits.

Best, Laura Erickson

Duluth, MN


On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Rick Wright  wrote:

> Isn't "dadin" just derived from "dandiner," to teeter? At least that's what
> I've always read.
>
> As to "petrel," that form appears more likely to be a folk etymology -- the
> creative re-analysis of a no longer understood term -- of a name like
> "pitter-pat." And I see that others have already adduced many of the
> relevant sources in support, for which thanks.
>
> Best from NJ once again,
> rick
>
> --
> Rick Wright
> Bloomfield, NJ
>
> Review Editor, Birding 
> Senior Leader, WINGS 
> Birding New Jersey 
> ABA Field Guide to Birds of New Jersey
> <
> 
http://www.amazon.com/American-Birding-Association-Field-Jersey/dp/1935622420/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401460984&sr=8-1&keywords=aba+field+guide+birds+new+jersey 

> >
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>



--
--
Laura Erickson

For the love, understanding, and protection of birds

There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
winter.

            --Rachel Carson

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

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Subject: "dadin"
From: Rick Wright <birdaz AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 09:58:38 -0400
Isn't "dadin" just derived from "dandiner," to teeter? At least that's what
I've always read.

As to "petrel," that form appears more likely to be a folk etymology -- the
creative re-analysis of a no longer understood term -- of a name like
"pitter-pat." And I see that others have already adduced many of the
relevant sources in support, for which thanks.

Best from NJ once again,
rick

--
Rick Wright
Bloomfield, NJ

Review Editor, Birding 
Senior Leader, WINGS 
Birding New Jersey 
ABA Field Guide to Birds of New Jersey

 


BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: Jerry Friedman <jerryfriedman1 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:58:39 -0600
The DRAE says the Spanish word "petrel" is of uncertain origin.

The OED says the Spanish word is from 1839 or earlier and comes from
English.  Because of the interest in this, I'll copy its whole discussion
of the etymology.  I've added one explanatory word in brackets.

"Origin uncertain and disputed. Dampier's suggested derivation < the name
of *St Peter* (see quot. 1703 at sense 1

) 

is probably a folk etymology, and similar folk-etymological alteration
probably lies behind the analogous names of this and related birds in other
European languages, at least some of which were probably intended as
calques on the English word: compare e.g. German *Petersvogel* (19th cent.
or earlier), *Petersläufer* (end of the 18th cent. or earlier), Norwegian
*Søren-Peder* , *St. Peders-fugl* (both 1764 or earlier), French †*pierrot*
(1751), Spanish (rare) *ave de San Pedro* , Italian regional (rare)
(Elba) *uccello
di San Pietro* , (Venice) *osel de San Pietro* . W. B. Lockwood ( *Zeitschr.
f. Anglistik u. Amerikanistik* (1968) *16* 285–90) suggests a derivation <
the first element of pitter-patter n.2
 and pitter-patter
v.2  + *-erel*
(in cockerel n. ,
etc.), with reference to the characteristic behaviour of petrels in
‘gliding buoyantly over the water, patting it with their feet’, although
this has been challenged on semantic grounds, and it should also be noted
that both pitter-patter n.2
 and pitter-patter
v.2  are only
attested later than the present word. It has also been suggested that the
name is, in spite of the chronology, a Romance loan in English, and is
ultimately related to the Indo-European base of pet n.1
 [fart] (the bird
having been so named perhaps on account of the noises it makes during
copulation, or perhaps on account of a strong-smelling substance which it
emits in order to defend itself), but the case for a Romance origin is not
strong.

"It is unclear whether the following example represents an earlier
attestation of the word; if so, its stem vowel is unexplained:

"1582   R. Madox *Diary* 19 June in E. S. Donno *Elizabethan in 1582*
(1976) 146   A poydrel which is a lytle black byrd cam to the ship, which
M. Fayrwether sayd was a token of wynd.

"Compare French *pétrel* (1723; 1705 as †*petrel* in a translation of
Dampier; 1782 or earlier as †*pétérel*; < English) and Dutch *petrel* (19th
cent. or earlier), Spanish *petrel* (1839 or earlier), Italian *petrello* (
*a*1837 or earlier), all ultimately < English, partly via French."

Jerry Friedman
Española, NM

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Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao AT COASTSIDE.NET>
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:28:43 -0700
All,

 One clarification is that most of the birds we call petrels (Pterodroma, 
Procellaria etc.) are not the original birds that sported the name. The name 
petrel comes from storm-petrels, likely the original name was given to either 
the British Storm Petrel or the Wilson's Storm-Petrel, or a mix of the two. My 
guess is that Wilson's Storm Petrel is the bird that originally had the name, 
and it came from lots of experience with the species not only in the north 
Atlantic, but in other oceans where mariners ventured. This species was also 
the one that was given the name Mother Carey's chickens. Note that Mother 
Carey's geese were the giant petrels of the southern oceans. 

 If you want another ocean legend. The recently described Pincoya Storm Petrel 
which I had some involvement in is named for a Chilean myth, of the Pincoya. 
You can read about her here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincoya 


Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro AT alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Laura Erickson 

Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:01 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

I'm intrigued that anyone would suggest that St. Peter is the "least plausible" 
explanation for the etymology of the name "petrel." The Oxford English 
Dictionary and American Heritage Dictionary both give that as a possible 
origin, with no alternative suggestions, and the Online Etymology Dictionary 
says, "seabird, 1670s, pitteral, modern spelling first recorded 

1703 by English explorer William Dampier (1651-1715), who wrote the bird was so 
called from its way of flying with its feet just skimming the surface of the 
water, which recalls the apostle's walk on the sea of Galilee (Matt. xiv:28); 
if so, it likely was formed in English as a diminutive of Peter (Late Latin 
Petrus). If this is folk etymology, the true source of the name is 
undiscovered. French pétrel (1760) probably is from English." 


Choate, in *American Bird Names,* provides a longer entry for Petrel than he 
gives for most bird names, but suggests that although "earlier variants of the 
word *pitteral* and *pittrel* are obscure, the *Oxford Dictionary of English 
Etymology* goes on to say that Dampier as early as 1703 '...has the spelling 
*petrel* and derives the name from that of St. Peter in the allusion to his 
"walking upon the lake of Genneserath."'" 


So the origin of the word petrel isn't 100 percent certain, but without 
evidence, the St. Peter explanation is hardly "the least plausible." 


Best,

Laura Erickson
Duluth, MN


On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Rick Wright  wrote:

> Remember that that is just one explanation, the cleverest and thus
> perhaps the least plausible, for the origin of the name "petrel."
>
> --
> Rick Wright
> Bloomfield, NJ
>
> Review Editor, Birding 
> Senior Leader, WINGS 
> Birding New Jersey  ABA Field Guide to
> Birds of New Jersey <
> http://www.amazon.com/American-Birding-Association-Field-Jersey/dp/193
> 5622420/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401460984&sr=8-1&keywords=aba+field+gu
> ide+birds+new+jersey
> >
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>



--
--
Laura Erickson

For the love, understanding, and protection of birds

There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of nature--the 
assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the winter. 


            --Rachel Carson

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao AT COASTSIDE.NET>
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:15:13 -0700
David

  The fact that Petrel is also used in Spanish makes me think that St. Peter
may be the root for the name. Pitter patter does not work for Spanish
speakers. I have no idea how old the Spanish usage of Petrel is though.

Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
alvaro AT alvarosadventures.com
www.alvarosadventures.com

-----Original Message-----
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line)
[mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Spector, David (Biology)
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 6:45 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

A couple of quotes with different perspectives:

"Petrel.  First attested in this spelling in 1602, a corruption of
'pitteral' (i.e., *pitterel) and 'pittrel' which, though not actually
recorded until 1676 and 1748 respectively, must represent the original form.
It was inspired by the jingle _pitter-patter_ under the influence of the
suffix erel, alluding of course to the birds tapping the water with their
feet as they skim over the surface.  The present corruption may have been
originally no more than a misspelling; at any rate, the supposed connection
with St. Peter, who walked on the waves, is certainly due to later
speculation."
W. B. Lockwood.  The Oxford Book of British Bird Names.  1984.


"earlier _pitteral_, of uncert. orig.; perh. altered by assoc. with St.
_Peter_ . . . ."
Random House unabridged dictionary 1987

David

David Spector
Belchertown, Massachusetts, U.S.



________________________________________
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line)
[BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Laura Erickson
[bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:01 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

I'm intrigued that anyone would suggest that St. Peter is the "least
plausible" explanation for the etymology of the name "petrel." The Oxford
English Dictionary and American Heritage Dictionary both give that as a
possible origin, with no alternative suggestions, and the Online Etymology
Dictionary says, "seabird, 1670s, pitteral, modern spelling first recorded
1703 by English explorer William Dampier (1651-1715), who wrote the bird was
so called from its way of flying with its feet just skimming the surface of
the water, which recalls the apostle's walk on the sea of Galilee (Matt.
xiv:28); if so, it likely was formed in English as a diminutive of Peter
(Late Latin Petrus). If this is folk etymology, the true source of the name
is undiscovered. French ptrel (1760) probably is from English."

Choate, in *American Bird Names,* provides a longer entry for Petrel than he
gives for most bird names, but suggests that although "earlier variants of
the word *pitteral* and *pittrel* are obscure, the *Oxford Dictionary of
English Etymology* goes on to say that Dampier as early as 1703 '...has the
spelling *petrel* and derives the name from that of St. Peter in the
allusion to his "walking upon the lake of Genneserath."'"

So the origin of the word petrel isn't 100 percent certain, but without
evidence, the St. Peter explanation is hardly "the least plausible."

Best,

Laura Erickson
Duluth, MN


On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Rick Wright  wrote:

> Remember that that is just one explanation, the cleverest and thus
> perhaps the least plausible, for the origin of the name "petrel."
>
> --
> Rick Wright
> Bloomfield, NJ
>
> Review Editor, Birding 
> Senior Leader, WINGS 
> Birding New Jersey  ABA Field Guide to
> Birds of New Jersey <
> http://www.amazon.com/American-Birding-Association-Field-Jersey/dp/193
> 5622420/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401460984&sr=8-1&keywords=aba+field+gu
> ide+birds+new+jersey
> >
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>



--
--
Laura Erickson

For the love, understanding, and protection of birds

There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
winter.

            --Rachel Carson

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: Laura Erickson <bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM>
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:06:07 -0500
David Specter gives an excellent explanation of one alternative origin.
That's useful.

Best, Laura

Laura Erickson
Duluth, MN



On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 8:45 PM, Spector, David (Biology) <
spectord AT mail.ccsu.edu> wrote:

> A couple of quotes with different perspectives:
>
> "Petrel.  First attested in this spelling in 1602, a corruption of
> 'pitteral' (i.e., *pitterel) and 'pittrel' which, though not actually
>  recorded until 1676 and 1748 respectively, must represent the original
> form.  It was inspired by the jingle _pitter-patter_ under the influence of
> the suffix –erel, alluding of course to the birds tapping the water with
> their feet as they skim over the surface.  The present corruption may have
> been originally no more than a misspelling; at any rate, the supposed
> connection with St. Peter, who walked on the waves, is certainly due to
> later speculation."
> W. B. Lockwood.  The Oxford Book of British Bird Names.  1984.
>
>
> "earlier _pitteral_, of uncert. orig.; perh. altered by assoc. with St.
> _Peter_ . . . ."
> Random House unabridged dictionary 1987
>
> David
>
> David Spector
> Belchertown, Massachusetts, U.S.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [
> BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Laura Erickson [
> bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM]
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:01 PM
> To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"
>
> I'm intrigued that anyone would suggest that St. Peter is the "least
> plausible" explanation for the etymology of the name "petrel." The Oxford
> English Dictionary and American Heritage Dictionary both give that as a
> possible origin, with no alternative suggestions, and the Online Etymology
> Dictionary says, "seabird, 1670s, pitteral, modern spelling first recorded
> 1703 by English explorer William Dampier (1651-1715), who wrote the bird
> was so called from its way of flying with its feet just skimming the
> surface of the water, which recalls the apostle's walk on the sea of
> Galilee (Matt. xiv:28); if so, it likely was formed in English as a
> diminutive of Peter (Late Latin Petrus). If this is folk etymology, the
> true source of the name is undiscovered. French pétrel (1760) probably is
> from English."
>
> Choate, in *American Bird Names,* provides a longer entry for Petrel than
> he gives for most bird names, but suggests that although "earlier variants
> of the word *pitteral* and *pittrel* are obscure, the *Oxford Dictionary of
> English Etymology* goes on to say that Dampier as early as 1703 '...has the
> spelling *petrel* and derives the name from that of St. Peter in the
> allusion to his "walking upon the lake of Genneserath."'"
>
> So the origin of the word petrel isn't 100 percent certain, but without
> evidence, the St. Peter explanation is hardly "the least plausible."
>
> Best,
>
> Laura Erickson
> Duluth, MN
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Rick Wright  wrote:
>
> > Remember that that is just one explanation, the cleverest and thus
> perhaps
> > the least plausible, for the origin of the name "petrel."
> >
> > --
> > Rick Wright
> > Bloomfield, NJ
> >
> > Review Editor, Birding 
> > Senior Leader, WINGS 
> > Birding New Jersey 
> > ABA Field Guide to Birds of New Jersey
> > <
> >
> 
http://www.amazon.com/American-Birding-Association-Field-Jersey/dp/1935622420/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401460984&sr=8-1&keywords=aba+field+guide+birds+new+jersey 

> > >
> >
> > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Laura Erickson
>
> For the love, understanding, and protection of birds
>
> There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
> There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
> nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
> winter.
>
>             --Rachel Carson
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>



-- 
-- 
Laura Erickson

For the love, understanding, and protection of birds

There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
winter.

            --Rachel Carson

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: "Spector, David (Biology)" <spectord AT MAIL.CCSU.EDU>
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:45:10 -0400
A couple of quotes with different perspectives:

"Petrel. First attested in this spelling in 1602, a corruption of 'pitteral' 
(i.e., *pitterel) and 'pittrel' which, though not actually recorded until 1676 
and 1748 respectively, must represent the original form. It was inspired by the 
jingle _pitter-patter_ under the influence of the suffix erel, alluding of 
course to the birds tapping the water with their feet as they skim over the 
surface. The present corruption may have been originally no more than a 
misspelling; at any rate, the supposed connection with St. Peter, who walked on 
the waves, is certainly due to later speculation." 

W. B. Lockwood.  The Oxford Book of British Bird Names.  1984.


"earlier _pitteral_, of uncert. orig.; perh. altered by assoc. with St. _Peter_ 
. . . ." 

Random House unabridged dictionary 1987

David

David Spector
Belchertown, Massachusetts, U.S.



________________________________________
From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) 
[BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Laura Erickson 
[bluejay AT LAURAERICKSON.COM] 

Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:01 PM
To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] "petrel"

I'm intrigued that anyone would suggest that St. Peter is the "least
plausible" explanation for the etymology of the name "petrel." The Oxford
English Dictionary and American Heritage Dictionary both give that as a
possible origin, with no alternative suggestions, and the Online Etymology
Dictionary says, "seabird, 1670s, pitteral, modern spelling first recorded
1703 by English explorer William Dampier (1651-1715), who wrote the bird
was so called from its way of flying with its feet just skimming the
surface of the water, which recalls the apostle's walk on the sea of
Galilee (Matt. xiv:28); if so, it likely was formed in English as a
diminutive of Peter (Late Latin Petrus). If this is folk etymology, the
true source of the name is undiscovered. French ptrel (1760) probably is
from English."

Choate, in *American Bird Names,* provides a longer entry for Petrel than
he gives for most bird names, but suggests that although "earlier variants
of the word *pitteral* and *pittrel* are obscure, the *Oxford Dictionary of
English Etymology* goes on to say that Dampier as early as 1703 '...has the
spelling *petrel* and derives the name from that of St. Peter in the
allusion to his "walking upon the lake of Genneserath."'"

So the origin of the word petrel isn't 100 percent certain, but without
evidence, the St. Peter explanation is hardly "the least plausible."

Best,

Laura Erickson
Duluth, MN


On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Rick Wright  wrote:

> Remember that that is just one explanation, the cleverest and thus perhaps
> the least plausible, for the origin of the name "petrel."
>
> --
> Rick Wright
> Bloomfield, NJ
>
> Review Editor, Birding 
> Senior Leader, WINGS 
> Birding New Jersey 
> ABA Field Guide to Birds of New Jersey
> <
> 
http://www.amazon.com/American-Birding-Association-Field-Jersey/dp/1935622420/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401460984&sr=8-1&keywords=aba+field+guide+birds+new+jersey 

> >
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>



--
--
Laura Erickson

For the love, understanding, and protection of birds

There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
winter.

            --Rachel Carson

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
Subject: Re: "petrel"
From: "sandfalcon1 ." <sandfalcon AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:35:25 -0400
Laura mentions William Dampier.  For anyone looking for a good book about a
rather intriguing individual, let me suggest "A Pirate of Exquisite Mind".
 For his time, Mr. Dampier was an amazing naturalist along with the fact he
was also a dyed-in-the-wool pirate.  If I am not mistaken he introduced
some 400 words to the English language and the notes he took about the
natural world (and wrote a book about) were what encouraged Charles Darwin
to visit and spend so much time studying on the Galapagos.  All while
engaging in nefarious activities...

No financial incentive for me, just passing along what was a very enjoyable
book for me.

Brandon Best
Lawrenceville, GA


On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 8:01 PM, Laura Erickson 
wrote:

> I'm intrigued that anyone would suggest that St. Peter is the "least
> plausible" explanation for the etymology of the name "petrel." The Oxford
> English Dictionary and American Heritage Dictionary both give that as a
> possible origin, with no alternative suggestions, and the Online Etymology
> Dictionary says, "seabird, 1670s, pitteral, modern spelling first recorded
> 1703 by English explorer William Dampier (1651-1715), who wrote the bird
> was so called from its way of flying with its feet just skimming the
> surface of the water, which recalls the apostle's walk on the sea of
> Galilee (Matt. xiv:28); if so, it likely was formed in English as a
> diminutive of Peter (Late Latin Petrus). If this is folk etymology, the
> true source of the name is undiscovered. French pétrel (1760) probably is
> from English."
>
> Choate, in *American Bird Names,* provides a longer entry for Petrel than
> he gives for most bird names, but suggests that although "earlier variants
> of the word *pitteral* and *pittrel* are obscure, the *Oxford Dictionary of
> English Etymology* goes on to say that Dampier as early as 1703 '...has the
> spelling *petrel* and derives the name from that of St. Peter in the
> allusion to his "walking upon the lake of Genneserath."'"
>
> So the origin of the word petrel isn't 100 percent certain, but without
> evidence, the St. Peter explanation is hardly "the least plausible."
>
> Best,
>
> Laura Erickson
> Duluth, MN
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Rick Wright  wrote:
>
> > Remember that that is just one explanation, the cleverest and thus
> perhaps
> > the least plausible, for the origin of the name "petrel."
> >
> > --
> > Rick Wright
> > Bloomfield, NJ
> >
> > Review Editor, Birding 
> > Senior Leader, WINGS 
> > Birding New Jersey 
> > ABA Field Guide to Birds of New Jersey
> > <
> >
> 
http://www.amazon.com/American-Birding-Association-Field-Jersey/dp/1935622420/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401460984&sr=8-1&keywords=aba+field+guide+birds+new+jersey 

> > >
> >
> > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> > Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Laura Erickson
>
> For the love, understanding, and protection of birds
>
> There is symbolic as well as actual beauty in the migration of birds.
> There is something infinitely healing in the repeated refrains of
> nature--the assurance that dawn comes after night, and spring after the
> winter.
>
>             --Rachel Carson
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html
>



-- 
You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who can
never repay you.
-John Bunyan

BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksbirds.org/birdchat/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdchat.html