Birdingonthe.Net

Recent Postings from
Digi-Scoping

Updated on Friday, November 23 at 06:22 PM ET
The most recently received Mail is at the top.

Clay,
           It's not usual to miss an email and I think I answered this 
one twice as I went away in between and wasn't sure.  It's easier for 
me to type a short reply than to do a look up.
To make sure that I don't miss anything ( I have 6 email lists that I 
like to keep up with ) I've got myself an iPod Touch (with Wi-fi ) so 
I can have my music with me at all times and check my emails  - if I 
can find a Wi-fi hotspot.  I was sitting in a coffee shop in Saigon 
last weekend checking my emails while my wife went shopping.
          I notice on BirdForum too that a lot of people ask the same 
questions day after day and that they don't read/search the previous 
threads.  I guess it's easier and people are looking for shortcuts.
I have to bite my tongue sometimes when I'm responding.
regards, Neil.

>Ambrose, Matt et al -
>
>I suppose I wasn't very clear in my message / question to Matt.   I 
>certainly would have answered his request, but Neil beat me to it.  
>
>I guess I'm grappling with the various concepts of using the 
>internet as an information source.   While there is an amazing 
>amount of information out there, does it carry more credulity when 
>hearing it directly from someone personally (Neil, Roy, me, etc.) 
>than reading it on Wikipedia or on a website of someone that you 
>have never heard of, or even the archives of DigiscopingBirds?
>
>While I wouldn't have had to do any personal research to come up 
>with the answer, it was such a fundamental one (heck, checking the 
>Nikon website would have sufficed) that his time spent typing 
>the request would have probably equaled the time spent checking 
>Nikon.com (OK, at least typing at MY speed, anyway).
>
>What would have happened if Neil, Roy, or one of the other regulars 
>are all away from our computers for a while and the question went 
>unanswered?    Would someone else have stepped in, or would he have 
>gotten annoyed and looked it up anyway?     About a year ago, 
>something similar to that did happen - a person asked a really basic 
>question, nobody answered it (at least to the group address), and 
>the guy then flamed the whole group.    I laughed it off as him 
>being a hothead, but now I'm wondering if this kind of data-mining 
>is becoming the norm, not the exception.
>
>philosophically yours,
>
>Clay Taylor
>Moodus, CT
>ctaylor AT att.net
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ambrose Liao
>To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 11:45 PM
>Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] THANKS re p5100 advice
>
>Hi Clay,
>
>Not wanting to sound like I'm taking sides, I want to give matt the 
>benefit of the doubt and say that not everyone is as experienced 
>with finding answers on the web or dpreview.com 
>in particular. I know I've asked many questions which would have 
>been easily answered if I knew where to look or exactly how to ask...
>
>I think that many of the members here are virtual bodhisattvas when 
>it comes to digiscoping and have vast experience with optics and 
>photography which very few others can match.
>
>We want to show newer members of this group that their questions and 
>participation are welcomed.
>
>Ambrose
>
>On Nov 19, 2007 8:48 PM, Clay Taylor < 
>ctaylor AT att.net> wrote:
>
>Matt -
>
>I have spent many hours at this keyboard answering questions on this 
>forum, and I don't want to sound like a grump here, but -
>
>You posted this question and Neil answered it about 5 hours 
>later.   I was offline throughout the period, so I never saw it 
>until a few minutes ago.   A Google search "Nikon P5100" would have 
>taken you first to www.dpreview.com and 
>then www.nikonusa.com and you would have 
>had your answer in less than 5 minutes.    A search of the listserv 
>archives would have taken a few minutes more, and you would have 
>found the same basic information plus lots more.
>
>Had Neil not answered, how long would you have waited to hear from 
>someone?    Would you have been irritated if no one had answered?
>
>just curious......
>
>Clay Taylor
>Moodus, CT
>ctaylor AT att.net
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Matt V.
>To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:18 PM
>Subject: [digiscopingbirds] THANKS re p5100 advice
>
>Greetings all! Thanks to all the folks, and many old friends
>that replied to my camera query. Neil, I sent you a few questions
>about the p5100, but my message may have gotten lost in cyber space or
>put into your spam file. Thus, can anyone clue me in on the following:
>
>Tell me please regarding the new P5100...does the lens move in/out or
>is it fixed like the cp-4500? Also, does the 5100 use the same
>batteries and card as the 4500?? THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Matt Victoria
>Santa Barbara, CA
>
>

Greetings. Just installed the Manfrotto 701RC2  head on my wife's tripod, for 
use with a Pentax 65 scope. The 701RC2 is light in  weight and an absolute 
dream to use in the field. Perhaps the smoothest action  of any video head I 
have ever used, and a rock solid clamp on the quick release plate eliminates 
any 

slop or looseness. The  pan arm can be used either on  the right or left 
side. The quick release platform can also slide forward or  back 2 cm., which 
works fine to balance the Pentax but probably not adequate for some scopes like 

my Swaroski ST80HD, which is quite back-heavy.

One note  of caution: the orientation of the quick-release platform on the 
701RC2 is such  that the beveled sides of the quick release plate are in the 
same axis as the pan arm of the head, which is 90 degrees different from heads 

like the 3130.  Thus, you cannot use the Swaroski Balance Rail, as the beveled 
sides of the  plate are at a 90 degree angled to the long axis, so that the 
scope would not be  parallel to the pan arm of the tripod head, and thus 
unusable with the balance rail. I believe this would also create a problem for 

mounting the ATS/STS Scope directly, as the scopes appear to have the bevels at 

the same 90 degree offset from the scope axis. The foot would go right into the 

3130,, but not the 701RC2.  You could of course use a quick release plate on 
the ATS/STS and just twist it  90 degrees, but then you have the old problem 
of a twisting plate.  Arrrrrggg!

Hope this all makes sense. I am not about to give up using my  Manfrotto 501 
head, heavy beast that it is, as it provides a rock-steady  platform for my 
gear and the long sliding rail allows perfect  balance.

Cheers, Len Blumin, Mill Valley, California  




**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

Hey - 

Steely Dan (Becker & Fagan) was way ahead of the curve!

Clay Taylor
Moodus, CT
ctaylor AT att.net 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Subscriptions 
  To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] boshisattva (WAS THANKS re p5100 advice)


  I just googled bodhisattva, and this was the first link. Talk about 
  solving your own problems!

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva

  Joe

  At 11:03 PM 11/20/2007, bob wrote:
  >Ambrose -
  >
  >I need a rough translation of bodhisattvas. I think I'm going to like 
  >that word. Thanks.
  >
  >Bob



   

Ambrose, Matt et al - 

I suppose I wasn't very clear in my message / question to Matt. I certainly 
would have answered his request, but Neil beat me to it. 


I guess I'm grappling with the various concepts of using the internet as an 
information source. While there is an amazing amount of information out there, 
does it carry more credulity when hearing it directly from someone personally 
(Neil, Roy, me, etc.) than reading it on Wikipedia or on a website of someone 
that you have never heard of, or even the archives of DigiscopingBirds? 


While I wouldn't have had to do any personal research to come up with the 
answer, it was such a fundamental one (heck, checking the Nikon website would 
have sufficed) that his time spent typing the request would have probably 
equaled the time spent checking Nikon.com (OK, at least typing at MY speed, 
anyway). 


What would have happened if Neil, Roy, or one of the other regulars are all 
away from our computers for a while and the question went unanswered? Would 
someone else have stepped in, or would he have gotten annoyed and looked it up 
anyway? About a year ago, something similar to that did happen - a person asked 
a really basic question, nobody answered it (at least to the group address), 
and the guy then flamed the whole group. I laughed it off as him being a 
hothead, but now I'm wondering if this kind of data-mining is becoming the 
norm, not the exception. 


philosophically yours,

Clay Taylor
Moodus, CT
ctaylor AT att.net 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ambrose Liao 
  To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 11:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] THANKS re p5100 advice


  Hi Clay,

 Not wanting to sound like I'm taking sides, I want to give matt the benefit of 
the doubt and say that not everyone is as experienced with finding answers on 
the web or dpreview.com in particular. I know I've asked many questions which 
would have been easily answered if I knew where to look or exactly how to 
ask... 


 I think that many of the members here are virtual bodhisattvas when it comes 
to digiscoping and have vast experience with optics and photography which very 
few others can match. 


 We want to show newer members of this group that their questions and 
participation are welcomed. 


  Ambrose



  On Nov 19, 2007 8:48 PM, Clay Taylor < ctaylor AT att.net> wrote:

    Matt - 

 I have spent many hours at this keyboard answering questions on this forum, 
and I don't want to sound like a grump here, but - 


 You posted this question and Neil answered it about 5 hours later. I was 
offline throughout the period, so I never saw it until a few minutes ago. A 
Google search "Nikon P5100" would have taken you first to www.dpreview.com and 
then www.nikonusa.com and you would have had your answer in less than 5 
minutes. A search of the listserv archives would have taken a few minutes more, 
and you would have found the same basic information plus lots more. 


 Had Neil not answered, how long would you have waited to hear from someone? 
Would you have been irritated if no one had answered? 


    just curious......

    Clay Taylor
    Moodus, CT
    ctaylor AT att.net 

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Matt V. 
      To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com 
      Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:18 PM
      Subject: [digiscopingbirds] THANKS re p5100 advice


      Greetings all! Thanks to all the folks, and many old friends
      that replied to my camera query. Neil, I sent you a few questions
      about the p5100, but my message may have gotten lost in cyber space or
      put into your spam file. Thus, can anyone clue me in on the following:

      Tell me please regarding the new P5100...does the lens move in/out or
      is it fixed like the cp-4500? Also, does the 5100 use the same
      batteries and card as the 4500?? THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Matt Victoria
      Santa Barbara, CA




   

I have a GPS unit from Garmin that also has Palm OS. I use it with AviSys which 
allows me to download checklists from any state or country before I visit 
there. I also obtain birdsongs online or from my own CDs, download them to my 
computer, convert them to MP3, and then add them to my Palm. It also has 
recording capability which can be useful for fieldnotes or recording songs. 


What it doesn't do is show pictures of the birds which I presume the National 
Geographic program would do. I will be interested in any replies you get to 
this (off) topic. 


Don

Don MacNeill
donmacneill AT eastlink.ca
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: siriusguy AT aol.com 
  To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 3:32 PM
  Subject: [digiscopingbirds] off topic - National Geographic Handheld Birds



 Has anyone had any experience with the National Geographic Palm OS PDA program 
"Handheld Birds," which is available either with a PDA, or as I would likely 
purchase it, just as the SD card? 


 Might I presume that includes all North American species, as covered in the 
National Geographic fieldguide? Does it cover anything else? 


  For what percentage of the entries are there audio files?

 Must the program be run exclusively from the SD card, or can the contents of 
the card be loaded into the primary memory of the PDA? 


 As far as the program replacing a printed fieldguide, what limitations should 
I expect? 


 While I see that the recording capability of the program will allow 
downloading directly into eBird, is there any way to to do the same into other 
listing programs...or not? 


 I apologize for this posting, which is somewhat off topic, but of course, it 
always helps to know WHAT one is imaging, prior to taking the time to do that. 
Also, at least one of the endorsers listed on the webpage I saw I know to be 
active on this board (and I find no mention of the program on 
www.zbirding.info.) 


  Alan Birnbaum
  Fresno CA





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money 
wasters of 2007. 


   

There is no desktop version of the program if that is what you mean. It runs
ONLY on the Palm.
 
Stephen Ingraham
zbirding.info
 

  _____  

From: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
[mailto:digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Bellanger Sr
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:07 AM
To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Re: off topic - National Geographic Handheld
Birds



I went to the NG web site to look at the specs of that program. It 
would seem that since the SD card will run in ANY pda it should also 
allow you to dump the program to your computer via a simple file 
transfer or copy. Before I'd spend that kind of money I'd spend the 
cost of a phone call to find out for sure.
Regards,
Pete



.
 
 
 

I went to the NG web site to look at the specs of that program. It 
would seem that since the SD card will run in ANY pda it should also 
allow you to dump the program to your computer via a simple file 
transfer or copy. Before I'd spend that kind of money I'd spend the 
cost of a phone call to find out for sure.
Regards,
Pete

Off topic so off-list reply.
 
Stephen Ingraham
zbirding.info
 

  _____  

From: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
[mailto:digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of siriusguy AT aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:33 PM
To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digiscopingbirds] off topic - National Geographic Handheld Birds




Has anyone had any experience with the National Geographic Palm OS PDA
program "Handheld Birds," which is available either with a PDA, or as I
would likely purchase it, just as the SD card?
 
Might I presume that includes all North American species, as covered in the
National Geographic fieldguide? Does it cover anything else?
 
For what percentage of the entries are there audio files?
 
Must the program be run exclusively from the SD card, or can the contents of
the card be loaded into the primary memory of the PDA?
 
As far as the program replacing a printed fieldguide, what limitations
should I expect?
 
While I see that the recording capability of the program will allow
downloading directly into eBird, is there any way to to do the same into
other listing programs...or not?
 
I apologize for this posting, which is somewhat off topic, but of course, it
always helps to know WHAT one is imaging, prior to taking the time to do
that.  Also, at least one of the endorsers listed on the webpage I saw I
know to be active on this board (and I find no mention of the program on
www.zbirding.  info.)
 
Alan Birnbaum
Fresno CA

.
 
 
 

Has anyone had any experience with the National Geographic Palm OS PDA  
program "Handheld Birds," which is available either with a PDA, or as I would  
likely purchase it, just as the SD card?
 
Might I presume that includes all North American species, as covered in the  
National Geographic fieldguide? Does it cover anything else?
 
For what percentage of the entries are there audio files?
 
Must the program be run exclusively from the SD card, or can the contents  of 
the card be loaded into the primary memory of the PDA?
 
As far as the program replacing a printed fieldguide, what limitations  
should I expect?
 
While I see that the recording capability of the program will allow  
downloading directly into eBird, is there any way to to do the same into other 

listing programs...or not?
 
I apologize for this posting, which is somewhat off topic, but of course,  it 
always helps to know WHAT one is imaging, prior to taking the time to do  
that. Also, at least one of the endorsers listed on the webpage I saw I know to 

be active on this board (and I find no mention of the program on 
_www.zbirding.info_ (http://www.zbirding.info) .)
 
Alan Birnbaum
Fresno CA



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

I have found that I do not need to worry about changing fstops or 
anything. In fact that caused a couple of problems. First I need to 
remember to change the setting if I zoom and second I need to change 
back. Even if I do that, I find that there was more problems with 
pictures that were taken with an fstop setting that matched the zoom 
than if I just used one setting and let the camera take care of 
things.

So I have the camera set at an f8 fixed focus setting and iso 400 
setting for almost everything. If I find that a flying bird can be 
taken at over 1/1200 of a second I may cut back the iso but that 
f8/400 setting seems to do well no matter what.

It helps that I have become a sunny day birder and do not see much 
reason to go out in bad weather. I can brace as well with the 
bushhawk as with a tripod and without the trouble of a tripod. The 
only exception was with a great horned owl buried back in the upper 
branches of an oak tree. It was windy and the tree was swaying and 
the owl was waving but I the camera did get good owl pictures. 
However, the leaves waving faster in front of the owl made nice green 
arcs across the bird but even so I did get a couple of shots.

Basically, I do not change any camera settings from month to month 
nor do I take the camera off the bushhawk. But that also means that I 
do not really have to read much about how to use the camera.

--- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com, "Mike Roper"  
wrote:
>
> Hi Joseph & Gerd,
> 
> I've been toying with the idea of using the Zeiss Photo adaptor to 
use my
> D200 with my 85mm Zeiss scope. I went back and double checked the
> specifications of the adaptor. The Zeiss version with the 85mm 
scope is
> 1000mm f12. When combined with 1.5 crop factor for a Nikon SLR that 
makes it
> a 1500mm f12. I would think that that would make it very tough to 
get a
> shutter speed fast enough to sharp photos. The ones you've posted 
with you
> Kowa are great only using a Bushhawk for stabilization.
> 
>  
> 
> I checked the specks of your adaptor at Eagle Optics: 
> 
> Capture exciting moments by digiscoping with a digital SLR camera. 
The
> unique zoom feature of the Kowa TSN-PZ photo adapter offers even 
greater
> flexibility as you move from 650mm to 1000mm with any of the TSN 
770 or TSN
> 880 spotting scopes.
> 
> *	TSN 770 spotting scopes: f/ 
> *	TSN 880 spotting scopes: f/
> 
>  
> 
> The Zoom on the Kowa adaptor seems to be and excellent option 
allowing you
> to dial back on the on the magnification for a better f stop and 
more light.
> The Zeiss adaptor is a fixed 1000mm f12 which I would think would 
be very
> limiting in all but the best of light.
> 
>  
> 
> Do you find that you are limited with your setup due to lack of 
light?
> 
>  
> 
> Since Gerd, a German, was the 1st to post something on the new Kowa 
scopes.
> I thought it might be amusing to post one of the advertisements for 
the new
> Kowa's from an American magazine. 
> 
>  
> 
> Mike Roper
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
josephkennedy36
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 8:45 AM
> To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Kowa 883 scope with D200
> 
>  
> 
> I have been using the Kowa 883 telescope attached to my Nikon d200 
> with the TSN-PZ eyepiece since May. Since June, all of my pictures 
> have been taken using the Bushhawk shoulder mount. I find that it 
> makes for excellent pictures whether hand held or poked out the car 
> window using the car for a blind.
> 
> I have a fairly large set of pictures on my pbase site with current 
> pictures in the current picture or hawk watch folder and rotating 
> through older and oldest to family and species folders.
> 
> The Smith Point hawk watch tower and surrounding area provide a 
great 
> opportunity for shots of flying birds as the migrants often fly low 
> over the tower.
> Recent pictures of flying hawks include a dark phase red-tail
> http://www.pbase. 

> com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/
> 
> And swainson's hawk
> http://www.pbase. 

> com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/
> 
> Perched birds include a young red-shouldered hawk
> http://www.pbase. 

> com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/
> 
> and another swainson's hawk
> http://www.pbase. 

> com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/
> 
> Brown pelican
> http://www.pbase. 

> com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/
> 
> seaside sparrow
> http://www.pbase. 

> com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/
> 
> And great blue heron
> http://www.pbase. 

> com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/
> 
> show what can be done with this combination. The Bushhawk shoulder 
> mount allows complete portability without the problem of hauling a 
> heavy tripod around and setting it up repeatedly and certainly is 
> better on flying birds.
> 
> I would be interested in knowing how others have used a dslr in 
> combination with a scope in the never ending search for the best 
> pictures.
>

Joe -

Thanks. Ambrose sent me a similar message.  As I said, I think I'm 
going to like the word.  Should have Googled it myself. :-[

Bob

At 10:35 PM 11/20/2007, you wrote:

>I just googled bodhisattva, and this was the first link. Talk about
>solving your own problems!
>

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva 

>
>Joe
>
>At 11:03 PM 11/20/2007, bob wrote:
> >Ambrose -
> >
> >I need a rough translation of bodhisattvas. I think I'm going to like
> >that word. Thanks.
> >
> >Bob

Pete,
           Welcome. What equipment do you have?
Neil

>Hi,
>I just joined this group today. Want to learn about the way you 
>take photographs. Hope to be allowed to be a full member.
>Thanks,
>Pete Bellanger Sr.
>Shutter&Bytes Photography
>
>
>Pete Bellanger Sr.
>Writer/Photographer
>The Great Outdoors
>
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 

Hi Bob,

From Google:

*http://tinyurl.com/yvoxmn

3rd definition for "Bodhisattva":
*"Buddha-in-the-making, literally an "enlightenment being"- to keep free all
beings from the coils of suffering."

:-)

Ambrose

On Nov 20, 2007 11:03 PM, bob  wrote:

>  Ambrose -
>
> I need a rough translation of *bodhisattvas*. I think I'm going to like
> that word.  Thanks.
>
> Bob
>

I just googled bodhisattva, and this was the first link. Talk about 
solving your own problems!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva

Joe

At 11:03 PM 11/20/2007, bob wrote:
>Ambrose -
>
>I need a rough translation of bodhisattvas. I think I'm going to like 
>that word.  Thanks.
>
>Bob

Ambrose -

I need a rough translation of bodhisattvas. I think I'm going to like 
that word.  Thanks.

Bob


At 09:45 PM 11/19/2007, you wrote:

>Hi Clay,
>
>Not wanting to sound like I'm taking sides, I want to give matt the 
>benefit of the doubt and say that not everyone is as experienced 
>with finding answers on the web or dpreview.com 
>in particular. I know I've asked many questions which would have 
>been easily answered if I knew where to look or exactly how to ask...
>
>I think that many of the members here are virtual bodhisattvas when 
>it comes to digiscoping and have vast experience with optics and 
>photography which very few others can match.
>
>We want to show newer members of this group that their questions and 
>participation are welcomed.
>
>Ambrose
>
>On Nov 19, 2007 8:48 PM, Clay Taylor < 
>ctaylor AT att.net> wrote:
>Matt -
>
>I have spent many hours at this keyboard answering questions on this 
>forum, and I don't want to sound like a grump here, but -
>
>You posted this question and Neil answered it about 5 hours 
>later.   I was offline throughout the period, so I never saw it 
>until a few minutes ago.   A Google search "Nikon P5100" would have 
>taken you first to www.dpreview.com and 
>then www.nikonusa.com and you would have 
>had your answer in less than 5 minutes.    A search of the listserv 
>archives would have taken a few minutes more, and you would have 
>found the same basic information plus lots more.
>
>Had Neil not answered, how long would you have waited to hear from 
>someone?    Would you have been irritated if no one had answered?
>
>just curious......
>

Hi Jospeh,

fantastic results.
I've been using the Kowa TSN 884 with the TSN-PZ Adapter. And I was very
pleased with the results, too.
The Kowa in combinatioon  with the TSN-PZ Adapter seems to be a
great alternative to a DSLR-lens.

I've tested the Kowa with Nikon and Canon DSLRs so far.
Have a look:


http://www.digital-nature-photography.com/nature/sonstiges/kowa-prominar-tsn-884-spotting-scope-photos.php 


The used equipment you can view at the bottom of the Page, next to the mini 
thumbnails. 


I also have a swarovski sope, but the Kowa 884 seems to be better corrected in 
terms of 

chromatic abberations.
Your flight shots were almost unbelievable. Didn't know, that such pics are 
possible with 

a combination like this. Congratulations...

Best regards,
Gerd





  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: josephkennedy36 
  To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 5:44 PM
  Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Kowa 883 scope with D200


  I have been using the Kowa 883 telescope attached to my Nikon d200 
  with the TSN-PZ eyepiece since May. Since June, all of my pictures 
  have been taken using the Bushhawk shoulder mount. I find that it 
  makes for excellent pictures whether hand held or poked out the car 
  window using the car for a blind.

  I have a fairly large set of pictures on my pbase site with current 
  pictures in the current picture or hawk watch folder and rotating 
  through older and oldest to family and species folders.

  The Smith Point hawk watch tower and surrounding area provide a great 
  opportunity for shots of flying birds as the migrants often fly low 
  over the tower.
  Recent pictures of flying hawks include a dark phase red-tail
  http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

  And swainson's hawk
  http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

  Perched birds include a young red-shouldered hawk
  http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

  and another swainson's hawk
  http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

  Brown pelican
  http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

  seaside sparrow
  http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

  And great blue heron
  http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

  show what can be done with this combination. The Bushhawk shoulder 
  mount allows complete portability without the problem of hauling a 
  heavy tripod around and setting it up repeatedly and certainly is 
  better on flying birds.

  I would be interested in knowing how others have used a dslr in 
  combination with a scope in the never ending search for the best 
  pictures.



   

Hi Clay,

Not wanting to sound like I'm taking sides, I want to give matt the benefit
of the doubt and say that not everyone is as experienced with finding
answers on the web or dpreview.com in particular. I know I've asked many
questions which would have been easily answered if I knew where to look or
exactly how to ask...

I think that many of the members here are virtual bodhisattvas when it comes
to digiscoping and have vast experience with optics and photography which
very few others can match.

We want to show newer members of this group that their questions and
participation are welcomed.

Ambrose

On Nov 19, 2007 8:48 PM, Clay Taylor  wrote:

>  Matt -
>
> I have spent many hours at this keyboard answering questions on this
> forum, and I don't want to sound like a grump here, but -
>
> You posted this question and Neil answered it about 5 hours later.   I was
> offline throughout the period, so I never saw it until a few minutes ago.
>  A Google search "Nikon P5100" would have taken you first to
> www.dpreview.com and then www.nikonusa.com and you would have had your
> answer in less than 5 minutes.    A search of the listserv archives would
> have taken a few minutes more, and you would have found the same
> basic information plus lots more.
>
> Had Neil not answered, how long would you have waited to hear from
> someone?    Would you have been irritated if no one had answered?
>
> just curious......
>
> Clay Taylor
> Moodus, CT
> ctaylor AT att.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Matt V. 
> *To:* digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2007 12:18 PM
> *Subject:* [digiscopingbirds] THANKS re p5100 advice
>
>  Greetings all! Thanks to all the folks, and many old friends
> that replied to my camera query. Neil, I sent you a few questions
> about the p5100, but my message may have gotten lost in cyber space or
> put into your spam file. Thus, can anyone clue me in on the following:
>
> Tell me please regarding the new P5100...does the lens move in/out or
> is it fixed like the cp-4500? Also, does the 5100 use the same
> batteries and card as the 4500?? THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Matt Victoria
> Santa Barbara, CA
>
>

The lens moves in and out, but all within the length of the UR-E20
threaded adaptor that's made for it and that you can use to attach it to
a mount or a lens. It uses the same batteries as the CoolPix 7900. Don't
know about the 4500. It uses a standard SD card.

It took two days for my last post to appear on this list. So, something
similar may have happened to yours.

Ardith Bondi
New York City

"Matt V." wrote:

> Greetings all! Thanks to all the folks, and many old friends
> that replied to my camera query. Neil, I sent you a few questions
> about the p5100, but my message may have gotten lost in cyber space or
>
> put into your spam file. Thus, can anyone clue me in on the following:
>
> Tell me please regarding the new P5100...does the lens move in/out or
> is it fixed like the cp-4500? Also, does the 5100 use the same
> batteries and card as the 4500?? THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Matt Victoria
> Santa Barbara, CA
>
> 

Not sure if anyone would be interested but thought I would check here
first.  I am about to sell my Coolpix 4500 and Olympus 7070.  Both are
like new with boxes, paperwork, etc.  The Olympus comes with the
battery grip and wired remote.  Both are superb but I have recently
bought a DSLR and my finance manager ;) says I need to balance the
books (or offset some of the loss).

If anyone is interested before I Ebay them, let me know.  

BTW I am in the UK.

Regards

Dave

Clay

You just sound like a reasonable human being, not a grump. There are 
answers everywhere.  One need but ask.

Bob

At 06:48 PM 11/19/2007, you wrote:

>Matt -
>
>I have spent many hours at this keyboard answering questions on this 
>forum, and I don't want to sound like a grump here, but -
>
>You posted this question and Neil answered it about 5 hours 
>later.   I was offline throughout the period, so I never saw it 
>until a few minutes ago.   A Google search "Nikon P5100" would have 
>taken you first to www.dpreview.com and 
>then www.nikonusa.com and you would have 
>had your answer in less than 5 minutes.    A search of the listserv 
>archives would have taken a few minutes more, and you would have 
>found the same basic information plus lots more.
>
>Had Neil not answered, how long would you have waited to hear from 
>someone?    Would you have been irritated if no one had answered?
>
>just curious......
>
>Clay Taylor
>Moodus, CT
>ctaylor AT att.net
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Matt V.
>To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:18 PM
>Subject: [digiscopingbirds] THANKS re p5100 advice
>
>Greetings all! Thanks to all the folks, and many old friends
>that replied to my camera query. Neil, I sent you a few questions
>about the p5100, but my message may have gotten lost in cyber space or
>put into your spam file. Thus, can anyone clue me in on the following:
>
>Tell me please regarding the new P5100...does the lens move in/out or
>is it fixed like the cp-4500? Also, does the 5100 use the same
>batteries and card as the 4500?? THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Matt Victoria
>Santa Barbara, CA
>
>

?? Greetings All!? It has been a long time since I posted here
regularly, so I don't doubt I've faded into obscurity.? 'Few years
back, I was quite avid, submitted many photos to BirdsPix and gave
technical advice on digiscopingbirds.? In that time, I felt I got to
'know' Neil, Len, Bruce, Barry, Jay, etc from all the correspondences.
?It was this sense of familiarity that had me ask Neil about the cam
today.? I did go to D-preview but I'm not really up on the lingo
anymore.? So, I figured my old Sandisk cards were the same as used by
the p5100...not so.? Turns out they call that card something else. 
And the model number of the batteries?? Don't recall!? Its been years,
and I'm not getting younger.? Neil's response was very clear, I have
no issue with the time lag, just very grateful.? And alarmed, beacuse
now I have to buy extra batteries and a new card, DRAT!


? As always, Digiscoping birds answered my query.? You guys are
great...THANKS!!!!!!? Neil, you pics are temendous BTW.? Went to your
site to view everything with the p5100.? Finally Clay I met you too. 
Way back in 2001.? LRGV TX.? You were doing a big day, but took the
time to show me my Lifer ZONE-TAILED HAWK.? So thanks!!? No more grumpy...


?? Here is a parting shot.? A Botteri's Sparrow (Aimophila botterii)
from Patagonia, AZ in July of 2006.? Took this on the way across
country with my old, trusty CP-4500 thru my Swaro ST-80 HD scope.? RIP
4500 I'll miss you!



-- 
Matt Victoria
Evonshire Dr.
Santa Barbara, CA 93111

webpage: http://www.fickity.net

"If it walks like a Duck, and quacks like a Duck; it may yet be
construed a hybrid."
***************************************************************

________________________________________________________________________
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and industry-leading 
spam and email virus protection. 

Matt - 

I have spent many hours at this keyboard answering questions on this forum, and 
I don't want to sound like a grump here, but - 


You posted this question and Neil answered it about 5 hours later. I was 
offline throughout the period, so I never saw it until a few minutes ago. A 
Google search "Nikon P5100" would have taken you first to www.dpreview.com and 
then www.nikonusa.com and you would have had your answer in less than 5 
minutes. A search of the listserv archives would have taken a few minutes more, 
and you would have found the same basic information plus lots more. 


Had Neil not answered, how long would you have waited to hear from someone? 
Would you have been irritated if no one had answered? 


just curious......

Clay Taylor
Moodus, CT
ctaylor AT att.net 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Matt V. 
  To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:18 PM
  Subject: [digiscopingbirds] THANKS re p5100 advice


  Greetings all! Thanks to all the folks, and many old friends
  that replied to my camera query. Neil, I sent you a few questions
  about the p5100, but my message may have gotten lost in cyber space or
  put into your spam file. Thus, can anyone clue me in on the following:

  Tell me please regarding the new P5100...does the lens move in/out or
  is it fixed like the cp-4500? Also, does the 5100 use the same
  batteries and card as the 4500?? THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Matt Victoria
  Santa Barbara, CA



   

>      Greetings all!  Thanks to all the folks, and many old friends
>that replied to my camera query.  Neil, I sent you a few questions
>about the p5100, but my message may have gotten lost in cyber space or
>put into your spam file.  Thus, can anyone clue me in on the following:
>
>Tell me please regarding the new P5100...does the lens move in/out or
>is it fixed like the cp-4500?   Also, does the 5100 use the same
>batteries and card as the 4500??  THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matt,
           Sorry, I've been away in Vietnam and forgot to reply.  The 
lens is external so you need this adaptr
http://www.camerafilters.com/detail.aspx?ID=2341
or the Nikon 28mm one.
It uses different battries which are much longer lasting than the 
4500 batteries.  It also used SD cards like the Canons.
Neil.
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 

Hi Joseph & Gerd,

I've been toying with the idea of using the Zeiss Photo adaptor to use my
D200 with my 85mm Zeiss scope. I went back and double checked the
specifications of the adaptor. The Zeiss version with the 85mm scope is
1000mm f12. When combined with 1.5 crop factor for a Nikon SLR that makes it
a 1500mm f12. I would think that that would make it very tough to get a
shutter speed fast enough to sharp photos. The ones you've posted with you
Kowa are great only using a Bushhawk for stabilization.

 

I checked the specks of your adaptor at Eagle Optics: 

Capture exciting moments by digiscoping with a digital SLR camera. The
unique zoom feature of the Kowa TSN-PZ photo adapter offers even greater
flexibility as you move from 650mm to 1000mm with any of the TSN 770 or TSN
880 spotting scopes.

*	TSN 770 spotting scopes: f/ 
*	TSN 880 spotting scopes: f/

 

The Zoom on the Kowa adaptor seems to be and excellent option allowing you
to dial back on the on the magnification for a better f stop and more light.
The Zeiss adaptor is a fixed 1000mm f12 which I would think would be very
limiting in all but the best of light.

 

Do you find that you are limited with your setup due to lack of light?

 

Since Gerd, a German, was the 1st to post something on the new Kowa scopes.
I thought it might be amusing to post one of the advertisements for the new
Kowa's from an American magazine. 

 

Mike Roper

 

  _____  

From: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
[mailto:digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josephkennedy36
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 8:45 AM
To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Kowa 883 scope with D200

 

I have been using the Kowa 883 telescope attached to my Nikon d200 
with the TSN-PZ eyepiece since May. Since June, all of my pictures 
have been taken using the Bushhawk shoulder mount. I find that it 
makes for excellent pictures whether hand held or poked out the car 
window using the car for a blind.

I have a fairly large set of pictures on my pbase site with current 
pictures in the current picture or hawk watch folder and rotating 
through older and oldest to family and species folders.

The Smith Point hawk watch tower and surrounding area provide a great 
opportunity for shots of flying birds as the migrants often fly low 
over the tower.
Recent pictures of flying hawks include a dark phase red-tail
http://www.pbase. 
com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

And swainson's hawk
http://www.pbase. 
com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

Perched birds include a young red-shouldered hawk
http://www.pbase. 
com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

and another swainson's hawk
http://www.pbase. 
com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

Brown pelican
http://www.pbase. 
com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

seaside sparrow
http://www.pbase. 
com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

And great blue heron
http://www.pbase. 
com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

show what can be done with this combination. The Bushhawk shoulder 
mount allows complete portability without the problem of hauling a 
heavy tripod around and setting it up repeatedly and certainly is 
better on flying birds.

I would be interested in knowing how others have used a dslr in 
combination with a scope in the never ending search for the best 
pictures.

     Greetings all!  Thanks to all the folks, and many old friends
that replied to my camera query.  Neil, I sent you a few questions
about the p5100, but my message may have gotten lost in cyber space or
put into your spam file.  Thus, can anyone clue me in on the following:

Tell me please regarding the new P5100...does the lens move in/out or
is it fixed like the cp-4500?   Also, does the 5100 use the same
batteries and card as the 4500??  THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matt Victoria
Santa Barbara, CA

>I have been using the Kowa 883 telescope attached to my Nikon d200
>with the TSN-PZ eyepiece since May. Since June, all of my pictures
>have been taken using the Bushhawk shoulder mount. I find that it
>makes for excellent pictures whether hand held or poked out the car
>window using the car for a blind.

Joseph,
                Nice work and thanks for reporting on the results. 
Was the sparrow images taken with the Bushhawk shoulder mount too?
Neil.
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 

 
Joseph-
Wow! Great shots, for sure. You are in the gap between digi-scoping and big  
glass DSLR. Since you are not taking photos through the eyepiece of the scope, 
 it does not qualify as true digi-scoping, but some would say that is  
hairsplitting, or perhaps DSLR envy. Keep up the good work.
Cheers, Len Blumin, Mill Valley, CA

 
 
 
I have been using the Kowa 883 telescope attached to my Nikon d200 
with  the TSN-PZ eyepiece since May. Since June, all of my pictures 
have been  taken using the Bushhawk shoulder mount. I find that it 
makes for  excellent pictures whether hand held or poked out the car 
window using the  car for a blind.











************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

I have been using the Kowa 883 telescope attached to my Nikon d200 
with the TSN-PZ eyepiece since May. Since June, all of my pictures 
have been taken using the Bushhawk shoulder mount. I find that it 
makes for excellent pictures whether hand held or poked out the car 
window using the car for a blind.

I have a fairly large set of pictures on my pbase site with current 
pictures in the current picture or hawk watch folder and rotating 
through older and oldest to family and species folders.

The Smith Point hawk watch tower and surrounding area provide a great 
opportunity for shots of flying birds as the migrants often fly low 
over the tower.
Recent pictures of flying hawks include a dark phase red-tail
http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

And swainson's hawk
http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

Perched birds include a young red-shouldered hawk
http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

and another swainson's hawk
http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

Brown pelican
http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

seaside sparrow
http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

And great blue heron
http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/

show what can be done with this combination. The Bushhawk shoulder 
mount allows complete portability without the problem of hauling a 
heavy tripod around and setting it up repeatedly and certainly is 
better on flying birds.

I would be interested in knowing how others have used a dslr in 
combination with a scope in the never ending search for the best 
pictures.

 
We're passing this year.
Heard Joe Morlan's talk already (which I respectfully did not  challenge!).
Leading a birding trip today. My friend Don will be there, with my  8400.
Have a good one.
Len

 
 
 
Hey - 
 
Are you coming to Stockton?   Hope to  see you here,






 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Hey - 

Are you coming to Stockton?   Hope to see you here,

Clay

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: lblumin AT aol.com 
  To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 1:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] premission to email group



  Welcome, Pete.
 Don't hesitate to ask questions, as you'll find that there are a lot of folks 
here who know the ropes. Better still, check the archives by doing a search for 
key words, as that often gives tons of information. Or just tune in each day 
and listen to the music. 

  Cheers, Len Blumin, Mill Valley
    Hi,
 I just joined this group today. Want to learn about the way you take 
photographs. Hope to be allowed to be a full member. 

    Thanks,
    Pete Bellanger Sr.
    Shutter&Bytes Photography


    Pete Bellanger Sr.
    Writer/Photographer
    The Great Outdoors






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

   

 
Welcome, Pete.
Don't hesitate to ask questions, as you'll find that there are a lot of  
folks here who know the ropes. Better still, check the archives by doing a 
search 

for key words, as that often gives tons of information. Or just tune in  each 
day and listen to the music.
Cheers, Len Blumin, Mill Valley

Hi,
I just joined this group today. Want to learn about the way you   take 
photographs. Hope to be allowed to be a full member.
Thanks,
Pete Bellanger Sr.
Shutter&Bytes Photography


Pete Bellanger  Sr.
Writer/Photographer
The Great Outdoors


 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Mike - 

The kit zoom will work, and I think Neil has actually produced decent 
resolution images, but a plain old 50mm f/1.8 lens, or the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 
makes life a lot easier. 


Drawbacks to the kit zoom vs. 50mm lens -
Larger size and weight, makes balancing the camera / scope harder to do
Slower f/3.5 lens is harder to manual focus on the camera's groundglass screen 
than an f/1.8 lens 

More glass lens elements than a 50mm lens - potentially more light loss
Usually takes a larger filter thread size, making it more difficult to attach 
to various camera adapters 


Clay Taylor
Moodus, CT
ctaylor AT att.net 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mike Roper 
  To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:51 PM
  Subject: RE: [digiscopingbirds] pancake lenses



 What do you use to mount an SLR with a lens to a scope? Does something like 
the Nikon 18-70 kit lens work? 


  Thanks, 

  Mike Roper


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 From: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of siriusguy AT aol.com 

  Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:39 AM
  To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [digiscopingbirds] pancake lenses



 Clay Tayor notes the pending availability of a "pancake lens" for the Nikon 
mount: 




 <> 




 NOT clear from the story, which I also read, was whether that lens is 
AUTO-FOCUS, and if so, whether it is AF-S, such as would be needed to allow AF 
with the lower cost D40 and D40x. Beyond that, given that the Nikon 50/1.8 
costs barely $100, this makes for an expensive lens. 




 Too bad Nikon doesn't develop and market a DX format 30 to 40 mm f2 or even 
F2.8 G AF-S pancake lens, which particularly mounted on the D40/40x would make 
a very compact and lightweight DSLR, not only for digiscoping, but also as 
complement to the larger DSLR's with zoom lenses. (Nikon may still have 
available the 45/2.8 GN-Nikkor, which is manual focus only, alas...such would 
be a DX analogue.) Theoretically, they could market such for around $500, 
making a unit that would be an attractive alternative to the P5100. 
BUT...likely I am just dreaming, but as to related alternatives, so are others. 
See, for example: 




  http://www.bythom.com/compact.htm



  Alan Birnbaum

  Fresno CA












------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.


   

Hi,
 I just joined this group today. Want to learn about the way you take 
photographs. Hope to be allowed to be a full member. 

  Thanks,
  Pete Bellanger Sr.
  Shutter&Bytes Photography


Pete Bellanger Sr.
Writer/Photographer
The Great Outdoors
       
---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

After I wrote that post, I thought the same as you, that maybe some of the 
problem could be relieved with a firmware upgrade. I also have been leaving the 
camera in single focus, since continous just uses battery power for not very 
much help. Since firmware can't install a focus lock button, I think the best 
they could do is make the camera, in continuous focus mode, keep its focus when 
the shutter is depressed. That sounds like it could be a firmware modification. 
Does that make sense? If so, maybe we should write Nikon. It worked in getting 
the self timer setting on the CP8400 changed so there was a 0 sec option for 
the remote shutter release. 


Ardith

-----Original Message-----
>From: siriusguy AT aol.com
>Sent: Nov 15, 2007 10:28 AM
>To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Nikon Coolpix P5100 focusing issues
>
> 
><has a continuous focus setting, when you press the shutter  without 
>prefocusing with a half-shutter, it still starts its whole focus process all 
over again 

>- which takes too long. It should either have a focus-lock  button, or keep 
>its focus in the continuous focus process. Nikon really needs to  fix this.
>
>Ardith>>
>
> 
>I intermittently experienced some similar problems, though I generally  leave 
>the camera on the single focus setting.  This proved problematic  
>particularly when trying to use the camera outdoors with fill flash, as one 
might while, 

>say, trying to get a shot of a fellow birder observing or using  their rig. 
>If this is a SOFTWARE function, they perhaps there is a chance that a software 

>update, that could be downloaded and installed via the SD card, might  become 
>available.
> 
>Alan Birnbaum
>Fresno C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Hi All,

I have created an album
for November called "200711 Best of Digiscoping Birds".

Here are the rules:

1) Each member may post one photo to each "Best of Digiscoping Birds"
album, taken at any time.

2) The photo must be taken by digiscoping, utilizing any camera with
a lens, and a telescope eyepiece.

3) The photo should be one of your "best" photos, "best" being a
quality solely determined by the photographer.

4) Some information about equipment used is requested so this album
can be used as a resource for new members.


Stephen Lindquist

Welcome Pete,

Digiscoping probably came about through "birders" wishing to document  
their sightings. we already had telescopes, so the natural  
progression was to use point and shoot compact cameras to photograph  
down the scope. As the techniques evolved, some people gravitated to  
SLR cameras coupled via a standard 50mm lens to the scope eyepiece.  
Then attaching the SLR body directly to the scope eyepiece or even  
directly to the scope. "What works and what doesn't?" a simple 5 word  
question opens a can of worms!

Digiscopers tend to fall into P&S or DLSR camps, although some swing  
both ways. One thing that is common is that digiscoping gives you  
greater "reach" than a traditional long lens and with considerably  
less expense. My feeling is that the DLSR route can give sharper  
pictures for closer subjects, whereas P&S cameras work better at  
longer distances and are lighter to carry about when birding. So  
depending on your aims (pardon the pun), you makes your choice.

I am a P&S man (saving up for a DLSR!). I'm sure the others will chip  
in with more specific DLSR advice as I think that will be your  
starting point. On the vignetting front, this is a common finding  
(especially with P&S cameras) but is easily overcome by zooming in  
sufficiently before shooting and/or cropping out afterwards if it  
creeps in.

Mark
     /-i


On 15 Nov 2007, at 14:19, crawfish4400 wrote:

> I'm the new guy. I came across your group, purely by chance while
> looking for photo groups. For a very long time I've been wondering
> about what you all do. So I'm here to ask questions about equipment,
> techniques what works and what doesn't. I currently shoot Canon
> cameras. I have a 10D and a 5D with my longest lens being a 70-200mm
> with a couple of 2X extenders that will get me to 800MM. That is not
> like having a true 800MM lens but that is all I have right now.
> I was looking at some of the photos you have posted here and noticed
> that some have a noticeable amount of vignetting, is that typical with
> your kind of photography?
> I hope to learn new ways of taking photographs here.
> Regards,
> Pete
>
>
> 

Mike,
           The zoom kit lens will work but you will need to zoom the 
lens a bit to eliminate vignetting.  I was even able to get AF to 
work at around 25mm in bright light ( I was hand holding the camera 
to the eyepiece ). More work needs to be done on this.
Neil.

>What do you use to mount an SLR with a lens to a scope? Does 
>something like the Nikon 18-70 kit lens work?
>Thanks,
>Mike Roper
>
>From: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com 
>[mailto:digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
>siriusguy AT aol.com
>Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:39 AM
>To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [digiscopingbirds] pancake lenses
>
>Clay Tayor notes the pending availability of a "pancake lens" for 
>the Nikon mount:
>
><lenses for Nikon and Pentax D-SLRs, including a 40mm f/2.   Veeery 
>Interesting!!!     A Google search found 
>http://www.cameraquest.com/Voigt%20SL.htm and the $379 price tag. 
>My Pentax 40mm f/2.8 gives excellent images with the Swarovski 
>20-60x eyepiece THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE ZOOM RANGE - now the Nikon 
>bodies could conceivably get that same performance (the Nikon and 
>Canon 50mm lenses show a "ghost donut" when the scope eyepiece goes 
>above 45x).>>
>
>NOT clear from the story, which I also read, was whether that lens 
>is AUTO-FOCUS, and if so, whether it is AF-S, such as would be 
>needed to allow AF with the lower cost D40 and D40x.  Beyond that, 
>given that the Nikon 50/1.8 costs barely $100, this makes for an 
>expensive lens. 
>
>Too bad Nikon doesn't develop and market a DX format 30 to 40 mm f2 
>or even F2.8 G AF-S pancake lens, which particularly mounted on the 
>D40/40x would make a very compact and lightweight DSLR, not only for 
>digiscoping, but also as complement to the larger DSLR's with zoom 
>lenses. (Nikon may still have available the 45/2.8 GN-Nikkor, which 
>is manual focus only, alas...such would be a DX analogue.) 
>Theoretically, they could market such for around $500, making a unit 
>that would be an attractive alternative to the P5100. BUT...likely I 
>am just dreaming, but as to related alternatives, so are others. 
>See, for example:
>
>http://www.bythom.com/compact.htm
>
>Alan Birnbaum
>Fresno CA
>

>I'm the new guy. I came across your group, purely by chance while
>looking for photo groups. For a very long time I've been wondering
about what you all do.

Pete,
           Welcome to the Group.
The vignetting issue varies a lot between cameras and eyepieces but 
it's always there with digicams at the wide setting. You don't get it 
as much , or at all with DSLRs as you are using a 75mm lens (50mm x 
camera crop ) whereas the dicams are starting out at 35 mm, some even 
24mm.  Usually by 50 mm it's disappears.  With some digicams you need 
to continually adjust the position of the camera lens to eyepiece as 
you zoom to keep vignetting out ( eg. the Canon A600 series  ).
Neil.
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 

Stephen,
                 Yes.
Neil.

>So, Neil, does this mean you can put the P5100 on Infinity Lock and 
>then use the scope to focus manually? Does this largely 
>eliminate,  the notorious lag period.
>Thanks, Len
>p.s. - I'm not ready to trade in my 8400 yet, but.....:
>
>Stephen,
>It's a normal Infinity mode which locks focus at
>infinity and switches off the flash.
>Neil.
>
>
>
>

What do you use to mount an SLR with a lens to a scope? Does something like
the Nikon 18-70 kit lens work?

Thanks, 

Mike Roper

  _____  

From: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
[mailto:digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of siriusguy AT aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:39 AM
To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digiscopingbirds] pancake lenses

 

Clay Tayor notes the pending availability of a "pancake lens" for the Nikon
mount: 

 

<>

 

NOT clear from the story, which I also read, was whether that lens is
AUTO-FOCUS, and if so, whether it is AF-S, such as would be needed to allow
AF with the lower cost D40 and D40x.  Beyond that, given that the Nikon
50/1.8 costs barely $100, this makes for an expensive lens.  

 

Too bad Nikon doesn't develop and market a DX format 30 to 40 mm f2 or even
F2.8 G AF-S pancake lens, which particularly mounted on the D40/40x would
make a very compact and lightweight DSLR, not only for digiscoping, but also
as complement to the larger DSLR's with zoom lenses. (Nikon may still have
available the 45/2.8 GN-Nikkor, which is manual focus only, alas...such
would be a DX analogue.)  Theoretically, they could market such for around
$500, making a unit that would be an attractive alternative to the P5100.
BUT...likely I am just dreaming, but as to related alternatives, so are
others.  See, for example:

 

  http://www.bythom.com/compact.htm

 

Alan Birnbaum

Fresno CA

 

 

 





  _____  

See what's new at AOL.com 
and Make AOL Your
  Homepage.

 

I don't use Continuous Focus but what I do is to reduce the Image 
Size from 12 megs down to 8 or 5 megs.  This gives me more focused 
frames in the sequence.  I haven't counted them but it's roughly from 
3 to 6 to 10 frames before the camera slows down to start processing. 
It's still not ideal but there is not a camera out there that is at 
the moment. Of course you have to do the half press first to get 
focus in the first place. I am impressed at the speed the 5100 
processes 3 x 12 meg images and is ready to go again.  It's only a 
few seconds.
Neil.


>I find the time to focus the CP4500 is irritating if it is on 
>continuous auto focus, so I leave it on single. I frame the shot and 
>make a half press to allow the auto focus to work (and the exposure), 
>then apply any necessary correction to the focus with the scope. If 
>the bird is still there (!) I then shoot a burst (3 or 4). This works 
>well for me on infinity setting. I then switch to Macro and half 
>press again, holding this until I think the bird is still.
>
>Mark
>      /-i
>
>
>On 15 Nov 2007, at 15:28, siriusguy AT aol.com wrote:
>
>>  <>  though it has a continuous focus setting, when you press the 
>>  shutter without prefocusing with a half-shutter, it still starts 
>>  its whole focus process all over again - which takes too long. It 
>>  should either have a focus-lock button, or keep its focus in the 
>>  continuous focus process. Nikon really needs to fix this.
>>
>  > Ardith>>
>>
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 

I find the time to focus the CP4500 is irritating if it is on  
continuous auto focus, so I leave it on single. I frame the shot and  
make a half press to allow the auto focus to work (and the exposure),  
then apply any necessary correction to the focus with the scope. If  
the bird is still there (!) I then shoot a burst (3 or 4). This works  
well for me on infinity setting. I then switch to Macro and half  
press again, holding this until I think the bird is still.

Mark
     /-i


On 15 Nov 2007, at 15:28, siriusguy AT aol.com wrote:

> < though it has a continuous focus setting, when you press the  
> shutter without prefocusing with a half-shutter, it still starts  
> its whole focus process all over again - which takes too long. It  
> should either have a focus-lock button, or keep its focus in the  
> continuous focus process. Nikon really needs to fix this.
>
> Ardith>>
>

 
So, Neil, does this mean you can put the P5100 on Infinity Lock and then  use 
the scope to focus manually? Does this largely eliminate,  the  notorious lag 
period.
Thanks, Len
p.s. - I'm not ready to trade in my 8400 yet, but.....:

 
 
 
Stephen,
It's a normal Infinity mode which locks focus at 
infinity  and switches off the  flash.
Neil.










************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

 
Clay Tayor notes the pending availability of a "pancake lens" for the  Nikon 
mount: 
 
<>

 
NOT clear from the story, which I also read, was whether that lens is  
AUTO-FOCUS, and if so, whether it is AF-S, such as would be needed to allow AF 
with 

the lower cost D40 and D40x.  Beyond that, given that the Nikon 50/1.8  costs 
barely $100, this makes for an expensive lens.  
 
Too bad Nikon doesn't develop and market a DX format 30 to 40 mm f2 or  even 
F2.8 G AF-S pancake lens, which particularly mounted on the D40/40x would  
make a very compact and lightweight DSLR, not only for digiscoping, but also as 

complement to the larger DSLR's with zoom lenses. (Nikon may still have  
available the 45/2.8 GN-Nikkor, which is manual focus only, alas...such would 
be a 

DX analogue.)  Theoretically, they could market such for around $500,  making 
a unit that would be an attractive alternative to the P5100. BUT...likely  I 
am just dreaming, but as to related alternatives, so are others.  See,  for 
example:
 
_http://www.bythom.com/compact.htm_ (http://www.bythom.com/compact.htm) 
 
Alan Birnbaum
Fresno CA
 







************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

 
<>

 
I intermittently experienced some similar problems, though I generally  leave 
the camera on the single focus setting.  This proved problematic  
particularly when trying to use the camera outdoors with fill flash, as one 
might while, 

say, trying to get a shot of a fellow birder observing or using  their rig. 
If this is a SOFTWARE function, they perhaps there is a chance that a software 

update, that could be downloaded and installed via the SD card, might  become 
available.
 
Alan Birnbaum
Fresno C







************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

I'm the new guy. I came across your group, purely by chance while 
looking for photo groups. For a very long time I've been wondering 
about what you all do. So I'm here to ask questions about equipment, 
techniques what works and what doesn't. I currently shoot Canon 
cameras. I have a 10D and a 5D with my longest lens being a 70-200mm 
with a couple of 2X extenders that will get me to 800MM. That is not 
like having a true 800MM lens but that is all I have right now. 
I was looking at some of the photos you have posted here and noticed 
that some have a noticeable amount of vignetting, is that typical with 
your kind of photography?
I hope to learn new ways of taking photographs here.
Regards,
Pete 

Stephen,
                 It's a normal Infinity mode which locks focus at 
infinity and switches off the flash.
Neil.


>Hi Neil,
>
>Dp review says that this camera has a focus mode called "infinity
>lock". How does the manual describe this? Thanks.
>
>Stephen Lindquist
>
>
>>  Matt,
>>            You need the new model P5100.  I've found it very easy
>to
>>  use and it works with most eyepieces with little or no vignetting.
>>  Also has the Green Macro zone which gives the best results.   I'm
>not
>>  sure about hand holding on a straight scope as it doesn't have a
>>  rotatable screen but it's screen is big and bright so can be seen
>>  from different angles. The newer Canon's have long zooms which
>make
>>  it difficult to digisoping with them.
>>  Here is a photo from yesterday with the 5100.
>  > Neil.
>  >
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 

Hi Neil,

Dp review says that this camera has a focus mode called "infinity 
lock". How does the manual describe this? Thanks.

Stephen Lindquist


> Matt,
>           You need the new model P5100.  I've found it very easy 
to 
> use and it works with most eyepieces with little or no vignetting. 
> Also has the Green Macro zone which gives the best results.   I'm 
not 
> sure about hand holding on a straight scope as it doesn't have a 
> rotatable screen but it's screen is big and bright so can be seen 
> from different angles. The newer Canon's have long zooms which 
make 
> it difficult to digisoping with them.
> Here is a photo from yesterday with the 5100.
> Neil.
>

Hi all - 

I have been on the road a LOT recently (taking pictures but not doing anything 
with them...), so I have not been current enough to make anything more than 
short comments. 


However, the recent spate of reviews on DP Review, plus wandering through the 
online camera dealers, has been fascinating. In no particular order of 
importance - 


The Nikon P5100 received a "Recommended" from DP Review, with some 
strongly-worded complaints that hit right at the needs of digiscopers. The 
P5100(and P5000) seem to be a 2/3 embodiment of our nightly prayer to the 
camera industry for a modern CoolPix 4500 or 8400; 

The Good Parts
1) lots of pixels
2) a modern processor
3) a sharp lens that works well with scope zoom eyepieces
4) accessory adapter available (28mm threads)
5) decent price tag (right now $330-ish in US camera stores)
The Bad Parts
1) a slow AF system, especially in dim lighting - like when shooting through a 
scope at higher powers 

2) a larger but not dramatically brighter LCD screen in full daylight than was 
on the 4500 or ) no tilt-screen or remote release like the 4500 or 8400 had
4) the reviewers are all agreed that the image noise becomes annoying above ISO 
200 and darn near intolerable above 400 

5) no RAW files, and pretty heavily compressed .jpeg files

But, it seems to be the best bang for the buck if you are really committed to a 
P&S camera and want to get top-quality shots 


The Canon A570 IS received a "Highly Recommended" from DP Review, which is 
pretty impressive considering that DP Review is leaning pretty heavily towards 
D-SLRs nowadays. I have seen very few recent P&S cameras get that high of a 
rating. 

Good Parts
1) excellent lens and compatibility with zoom eyepieces
2) accessory adapter available (52mm threads)
3) top-shelf processor and imaging with 7 megapixel sensor, true manual 
controls on stuff like ISO, exposure modes, etc. 

4) decent-sized screen is good in bright lighting (but not yet where we would 
like it to be) 

5) The price has gone from $260 last February to under $170 right now - a clear 
sign that they are going away soon, but such a smokin' deal that I recently 
picked one up. My trip to the upcoming Central Valley bird Symposium will give 
me a chance to do the P&S vs. D-SLR comparison with cameras of the relatively 
same developmental age. My D1 vs. CP 4500 comparison photos are like pairing a 
Hudson Hornet against a Studebaker at a NASCAR race. 

Bad Parts
1) no RAW files
2) no Tilt Screen or Remote Release
3) high ISOs are still noisy

I still think that we need more cameras like the Sony N1 / N2, with the 
touch-screen controls. Their lack of accessory adapters is an annoyance, but 
the newest adapter from CKC Power http://www.ckcpower.com/unicam.htm looks like 
it could be a good all-round adapter to allow many of the no-adapter cameras to 
use a DCA / Cheang / Kowa style screw-on eyepiece adapter. Anybody out there 
using one? 


Sharon Stiteler, Bruce Webb and Betty Lemley (New Jersey Audubon) are taking 
great photos with their Fuji E900 cameras, which are still available on the 
internet, but that window is becoming smaller in the rear-view mirror every 
day. In fact, Betty and I ran classroom and field seminars in digiscoping at 
the recent NJAS Bird Show, and after seeing me whacking away with my Pentax 
K100D and 40mm lens, she decided to go that route, too. I'm waiting to see her 
first images with the new system. 


On the D-SLR front, the camera body prices are amazingly low. I was at Best Buy 
today (for you guys outside of the US, an electronics store) and the K100D 
Super with kit lens was $499, the Nikon D40 with kit lens was $549, as was the 
Canon Rebel XT with kit lens was $599 (note - not the XTi). A Canon 50mm f/1.8 
lens is $70 online, a Nikon 50mm f/1.8 is $115, and the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 is 
$220. Add up the packages, and they all cluster pretty close together. 
Interesting, eh? Add in the D-SLR's speed of shooting, image quality at higher 
ISOs, the ability to do flight shot sequences and get consistent, predictable 
results.......... 


You have all been recently seeing Gerd's results using the Kowa scope and the 
made-for-SLR variable mount. He is obviously VERY talented with the camera, and 
I'd be willing to bet that he would get excellent results using a 50mm + zoom 
eyepiece setup, too. Gerd - are you up for a challenge? 


Then there is the short report in DP Review of the Voightlander lenses for 
Nikon and Pentax D-SLRs, including a 40mm f/2. Veeery Interesting!!! A Google 
search found http://www.cameraquest.com/Voigt%20SL.htm and the $379 price tag. 
My Pentax 40mm f/2.8 gives excellent images with the Swarovski 20-60x eyepiece 
THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE ZOOM RANGE - now the Nikon bodies could conceivably get 
that same performance (the Nikon and Canon 50mm lenses show a "ghost donut" 
when the scope eyepiece goes above 45x). 


Messing around a little more found this fascinating page 
http://www.cameraquest.com/adapt_olyE1.htm which allows you to adapt Nikon and 
Pentax bayonet lenses to the 4/3-mount Olympus, Panasonic and Leica D-SLRs. 
While the lenses will only meter automatically (AE) or Manually at wide-open, 
that is what we do when digiscoping anyway, so you could use a Nikon 50mm (how 
about the old 45mm GN lens?) or Pentax 50mm and 40mm lenses on an E-410, E-510 
or E-3, get a 2x crop factor plus Live-Screen! I wonder if the 30mm Sigma lens 
for 4/3 mount would work? A bit pricey, though. 


Hmmm..., with the 2x of the sensor, an old 35mm lens would spec out like a 
70mm, similar to the 50mm lens on a 1.5x body equaling 75mm. I wondered if 
something like an old, manual-focus Nikkor 35mm f/2 lens would also work 
nicely? A quick check of B&H's Used Lenses found a Nikkor 35mm f/2.0 (condition 
7) at $99, and $109 (condition 8), while a 35mm f/2.8 was Condition 9 at $119. 


OK, that's about enough for now,

Clay Taylor
Moodus, CT
ctaylor AT att.net 

Pete,

The Optics4Birding website has weights for all the CF tripods we 
carry. I think the weights of the heads are in the product 
descriptions, but they are:

Bogen:
700RC2  - 1.1 lbs.
701RC2  - 1.8 lbs.
 lbs.
501 HDV - 3.5 lbs.

Swarovski:
FMS Fast Mount System FH101 Tripod Head - 1.24 lbs.



At 12:49 PM 11/5/2007, Pete Holzmann wrote:
>If anyone could give the weight of their light legs + heavy head,
>I'm interested.


Good Viewing,
Steve Sosensky 
Vice President

www.Optics4Birding.com
19 Hammond Suite 506                                    N  
Irvine CA 92618                                         W .OP4.BIRD () Toll Free             Cell
949.360.OPTX () Local

I agree - just superb!

Allen
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Leo Doucet 
  To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Experience with Kowa TSN 884 for Digiscoping 
and for use with DSLR 



  Hi Gerd

  This picture of a bird is about as good as it can possibly be, a 10.

  ... Leo ...

  On 13-Nov-07, at 3:31 PM, Gerd Rossen wrote:

  >
  > Hi,
  >
  > Yesterday I did some pics with Kowa TSN 884 and Canon 400D.
  > Works fine, but it's a little bit hard to focus manually with the 
  > small viewfinder of
  > the 400D.
  >
  > All the best,
  > Gerd
  >
  >


   

I recently bought the P5100 as well and like it. With its adaptor, it
fits the camera mount that I originally bought from Cheang in Malaysia
for my CoolPix 5000 (the same mount that works with the CP8400) and an
old Swarovski AT80 HD scope.

I have just been using the P5100 as a carry-around camera, though. One
thing not mentioned here is that it has a flash shoe and works really
really well with my SB800  flash, which solves all the problems with its
built-in flash. Only problem is that the flash is more than twice its
size. There is a smaller SB400 which is supposed to work with it, but it
doesn't have as many functions and I haven't yet checked it out. I
already had the SB800, which I use all the time with my D2X.

My major complaint about the camera is that even though it has a
continuous focus setting, when you press the shutter without prefocusing
with a half-shutter, it still starts its whole focus process all over
again - which takes too long. It should either have a focus-lock button,
or keep its focus in the continuous focus process. Nikon really needs to
fix this.

Ardith

siriusguy AT aol.com wrote:

> Neil Fifer suggested that: <           You need the new model P5100.  I've found it very easy to
> use and it works with most eyepieces with little or no vignetting.
> Also has the Green Macro zone which gives the best results.>> I can
> comment further that for general outdoor non-digiscoping usage, this
> is a very nice little camera, having used it on a recent vacation for
> one week. Its weaknesses that I found were indoor focusing in low
> light, and some problems using the flash, particularly for fill
> lighting, but these would cause no problem for outdoor usage.  It fits
> PERFECTLY into the Tamrac #5861 padded cordura case, which has a small
> outside pocket that nicely holds an extra battery and SD card.
> Virtually anything you would need to know about the camera can be
> found at: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Nikonp5100/ which to me
> seemed to be a very accurate assessment of the camera.  It can now be
> purchased at a variety of places for no more than $350; a 2-year
> extension of the warranty is $20, and the extra Li-ion battery which I
> bought as an off-brand for $13 worked perfectly well. Alan
> BirnbaumFresno CA
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
>