Birdingonthe.Net Recent Postings from Digi-Scoping > Home > Mail > Alerts Updated on Friday, July 3 at 04:36 PM ET The most recently received Mail is at the top.	Bittern,©Jan Wilczur

03 Jul Re: Is the G1 (or any camera) as sharp as the LX3?? Show me. ["smithhill20" ] 3 Jul Re: Is the G1 (or any camera) as sharp as the LX3?? Show me. [Lehmen Keyes ] 1 Jul Raw vs JPEG [Mike Grant ] 3 Jul Re: Is the G1 (or any camera) as sharp as the LX3?? Show me. [Len Blumin ] 3 Jul new Swarovski 25 - 50 x zoom and Panasonic G1 [neilfif11 ] 3 Jul Re: RAW vs JPEG [neilfif11 ] 02 Jul Is the G1 (or any camera) as sharp as the LX3?? Show me. ["smithhill20" ] 2 Jul Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 ["Lou & Wes" ] 2 Jul Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [Jeff Bouton ] 2 Jul Re: RAW vs JPEG [Richard Stern ] 2 Jul Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [Bruce deGraaf ] 2 Jul Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [Mike Grant ] 2 Jul RAW vs JPEG [Mike Grant ] 2 Jul The M series of test photos [Roy Halpin ] 2 Jul Vintage 50mm Pentax lens with Borg and G1 [Roy Halpin ] 1 Jul RE: Nikon P6000 and adapters ["Bruce E. Webb" ] 1 Jul Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [Bruce deGraaf ] 2 Jul Nikon P6000 and adapters [neilfif11 ] 1 Jul Re: Vintage 50mm Pentax Lens [Roy Halpin ] 1 Jul Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [] 1 Jul Vintage 50mm Pentax Lens [Roy Halpin ] 1 Jul Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [Roy Halpin ] 1 Jul Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [Jeff Bouton ] 1 Jul Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [Jeff Bouton ] 1 Jul Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [Bruce deGraaf ] 1 Jul Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [Mark Stewart ] 01 Jul Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 ["smithhill20" ] 30 Jun Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [Lehmen Keyes ] 30 Jun perhaps Swarovski has upgraded the ATS mounting foot to metal [] 01 Jul Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 ["Jay Turberville" ] 30 Jun Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters [Roger Isaacs ] 30 Jun Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 ["gwapuffin" ] 30 Jun Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters [Bruce deGraaf ] 30 Jun Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 [Len Blumin ] 30 Jun Digiscoping basics - 2 [Jeff Bouton ] 30 Jun Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters [Mike Grant ] 30 Jun Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters ["Tom Cuffe" ] 30 Jun Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters [Bruce deGraaf ] 30 Jun Re: hanging by a (plastic) thread [Neil Fifer ] 30 Jun Re: Digiscope bracket [Neil Fifer ] 30 Jun Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters [Roy Halpin ] 30 Jun Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters ["Tom Cuffe" ] 29 Jun Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters [Bruce deGraaf ] 29 Jun Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters [Roy Halpin ] 29 Jun Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters [Bruce deGraaf ] 30 Jun Re: New to Digiscoping [Neil Fifer ] 29 Jun Re: hanging by a (plastic) thread [Bruce deGraaf ] 29 Jun Digiscope bracket ["hmison" ] 29 Jun New to Digiscoping ["Maryalis Bushee" ] 29 Jun RE: hanging by a (plastic) thread ["Mike McDowell" ] 29 Jun hanging by a (plastic) thread [] 29 Jun Re: I tried ["Lou & Wes" ] 29 Jun Re: I tried [Roy Halpin ] 29 Jun Re: I tried [Jeff Bouton ] 29 Jun I tried [Roy Halpin ] 26 Jun new introductory "how to" digiscope blog [Jeff Bouton ] 26 Jun moving some of zbirding.info [Stephen Ingraham ] 26 Jun Re: Panasonic G1 and the Olympus 50mm Lens - Test Shots [Bird ] 25 Jun RE: Panasonic G1 and the Olympus 50mm Lens - Test Shots ["Mike Grant" ] 24 Jun Re: Panasonic G1 and the Olympus 50mm Lens - clarification ["Jay Turberville" ] 24 Jun Re: Panasonic G1 and the Olympus 50mm Lens ["Jay Turberville" ] 24 Jun Panasonic G1 and the Olympus 50mm Lens ["Mike Grant" ] 23 Jun Re:only one DCA zoom [Dale Forbes ] 22 Jun Re: only one DCA zoom [Hervé MICHEL ] 22 Jun only one DCA zoom [Hervé MICHEL ] 22 Jun Re: Optical Speed of Digiscoping System ["smithhill20" ] 21 Jun Re: Optical Speed of Digiscoping System ["Jay Turberville" ] 20 Jun Optical Speed of Digiscoping System ["smithhill20" ] 19 Jun Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece ["Hans Schick" ] 19 Jun re: digiscoping with the Panasonic Lumix G1 and kit lens ["wwfc21" ] 18 Jun Re: Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece [Bruce deGraaf ] 18 Jun Re: Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece [Len Blumin ] 18 Jun Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece ["Hans Schick" ] 18 Jun Re: Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece [Hervé MICHEL ] 18 Jun Re: Re: Celestron 52251 Ultima 80ED [Rick Phillips ] 18 Jun Re: Celestron 52251 Ultima 80ED ["jwjenks2001" ] Subject: Re: Is the G1 (or any camera) as sharp as the LX3?? Show me. From: "smithhill20" <smithhill1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:36:31 -0000 Thank you Len for your post. I judge it to be sharper than mine. I have renewed respect for the 8400. Perhaps there was indeed a wrinkle in George's nose, since I show it also. I am sorry there seemed to be too much confusion concerning my proposal for a somewhat standardized resolution test with the dollar bill. It really was meant to be very simple. Photograph a bill at 50 or 60 feet, enlarge the right half to show details, and post the results. I do not see a problem with other issues such as different scopes. Any decent ED scope should show almost theoretical resolution, perhaps not other qualities. Perhaps the apples and oranges are just the fruits of digiscoping. The other information I gave is what I did and used that might help other people to select choices. One bit of simplified information that I had not calculated was the equivalent focal length. It was 2093mm. My primary reason for making the proposal is that I would like to know how my system is doing. Is it "Pretty Good", as Garrison Keillor would say, or would it be worth it to me to consider other equipment. Also there have been other people wishing for some sort of standard target. I found one right in the pocket that everyone, at least at present, should have at least one. But, it indeed seems to be shrinking fast. Gene Smith --- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com, "smithhill20" wrote: > > Here is a photo (400K) of a Dollar bill taken at one half (60 feet) > the theoretical distance to resolve the lines in the "ONE" print on > the front, by an 80mm aperture optic. Subject: Re: Is the G1 (or any camera) as sharp as the LX3?? Show me. From: Lehmen Keyes <leekeyes AT yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Maybe it's time to split this group in two. The "high-end" guys and the rest. Digiscoping is a pastime with some of us, not a profession. I got nothing against the high-end folks and I really enjoy seeing the results of their labors. Given the resources. I'd like to be a high-end guy altho I'm pretty sure it wouldn't give me the personal results that I see here. I'm also interested in seeing low-end equipment and results WITHOUT the putdowns that sometime crop up here. Lee (at the edge of the Monongehela National Forest in WV) Subject: Raw vs JPEG From: Mike Grant <mocurlew AT att.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:52:25 -0700 (PDT) I have digiscoped for years but never used the RAW capture format.  Do you all find that it makes a big difference in the final outcome, given available noise reduction programs?    Thanks, Mike Grant Chesterfield, MO Subject: Re: Is the G1 (or any camera) as sharp as the LX3?? Show me. From: Len Blumin <Len.blumin AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:17:22 -0700 Gene- Your challenge leaves me befuddled. Fun maybe, but really not "science. One of the first things we learn in a science experiment is to control the variables, and there are just too many variables here to make comparison shots meaningful. The only fair test of camera resolution, using a dollar bill, would be to use the same set-up (Eyepiece, Scope, Tripod, lighting, distance, etc.) and vary *only* the camera. All photos would be processed (or not) identically. Don't know anyone except Neil who would be up to this task. That said, I took out a crumpled $1 bill, tacked it to a board in the sunlight, paced off 60' and shot it with my Swaro80HD, 30X eyepiece (have no idea what mm this equates to), and used timer release, ISO 100 with my Nikon Coolpix 8400. Zoomed to the max, which is only about 1.7X with the 8400 (85mm equivalent in 35mm terms). Minimal post-processing. Cropped to approximate your shot, and re-sized. I suspect that I could have even done better with my old CP 4500, which had better zoom range. Image attached, which I think proves little except that with a good scope and eyepiece you can get a pretty sharp photo with most any camera. Anything less than an "apples to apples" test leaves me doubting. I know you tried in your original posting to set the parameters so that others could take valid comparison photos, but I found it difficult to understand, and there are just too many variables for me to comprehend. Perhaps that is why we are not seeing a flood of comparison photos being submitted. Hope others post some shots, just for the fun of it. -- Cheers, Len Blumin, Mill Valley, California len.blumin AT gmail.com Swaro 80 HD, 30X, DCA, CoolPix 8400 http://www.flickriver.com/photos/lenblumin/sets/72157614994688364/ Subject: new Swarovski 25 - 50 x zoom and Panasonic G1 From: neilfif11 <neilfif11 AT yahoo.com.au> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 08:01:40 +0800 Thanks to the efforts of Clay I've been sent a Swarovski 25-50 zoom and UCA ( Universal Adapter ) for testing. After my first outing with it yesterday I don't think they'll be getting it back. First impressions are color and sharpness excellent but vignetting with G1 and Nikon P6000 with DCA adapter. These images have been cropped http://www.flickr.com/photos/7892550 AT N03/?saved=1 Interestingly the "look" of the images reminded me of images out of the new Kowa. I'll do some serious "tuning" with the setup today and try out the UCA adapter. Neil. Panasonic Lumix G1 and Nikon P6000 and Swarovski STS80HD scope and Sw 25-50x zoom and DCA adapter Hong Kong, China. July 3009 Subject: Re: RAW vs JPEG From: neilfif11 <neilfif11 AT yahoo.com.au> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:23:21 +0800 Mike, 90% of my digiscoped images are JPEG only, but 70% of my DSLR shots are RAW plus JPEG. I mainly use RAW when digiscoping when I have a complicated lighting situation or I have an "award winning" image possibility . The problem with RAW and digicams is the slowness of processing and it locks the camera up for a long time. Even the Panasonic G1 will slow down to process so it is no good when you have action happening around. I do like to use RAW for birds in breeding color so I can "adjust" wb and Hue/Saturation later on. A well exposed JPEG out of the camera is good enough for me most times. The attached photo is a Jpeg. Neil. ps taken with the G1 and the new Swaro 25 - 50 x zoom >I have digiscoped for years but never used the RAW capture format. >Do you all find that it makes a big difference in the final outcome, >given available noise reduction programs? > >Thanks, >Mike Grant >Chesterfield, MO > > > Subject: Is the G1 (or any camera) as sharp as the LX3?? Show me. From: "smithhill20" <smithhill1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:22:15 -0000 Here is a photo (400K) of a Dollar bill taken at one half (60 feet) the theoretical distance to resolve the lines in the "ONE" print on the front, by an 80mm aperture optic. I posted (message 22100) the procedure to use a dollar bill for scope resolution testing and Dawes limit. My concern today is not scope testing, but camera resolution. There is un-sharpness shown, a resolution test is not pretty, it is a test. If your camera is sharper, let it show. The purpose of this post is to present a controlled micro image of standard size, and then you select the eyepiece and/or zoom of your choice to best present it. I used a 13mm eyepiece and a zoom of 2X (11.1mm on my LX3). Since my scope is 600mm, a scope of 500mm should use a distance of 50 feet to present a like image to the camera. The dollar is 54% of the linear width of the 4/3rd format. Half the dollar is presented at about 400K, which is enough to show the details. The image is near the resolution limit of an 80mm scope, all 80mm scopes, regardless of pedigree. OK, that is a standardized procedure. Show me that the G1, or any camera, is as sharp .... Thanks. Gene Smith http://www.PhotoShare.co.nz/PhotoShareGallery1/101684/109654/Q-EShowT60ft13LSP0025387.jpg Subject: Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: "Lou & Wes" <martay6 AT bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:43:32 -0400 Ford vs. Chevrolet.... men vs. women... RAW vs. JPEG.... there'll always be something to stir up a contraversy! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Bouton To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 OK Bruce, Fair enough, guilty as charged. I've never tried any G1 but Roy's. My criticism, be it valid or not, was in response to his implication that those using G1 are at the cutting edge while other's are merely settling for old technology, and from my personal observations that there are far more people reporting problems using the new camera than reporting good results as you are. Looks like you have it figured out though. Regarding my misrepresentation of the focal lengths, this stems from an old observation that effective overall focal lengths can be figured far more simply. The old method (listed in many websites) suggests that you can simply take the 35mm equivalent listed in the image metadata (as this accounts for the magnification factor of the sensor so should offer a standard) and then perform a straight linear multiplication of scope magnification: i.e. 100mm equiv image taken at 20x on scope = 2,000 mm effective equivalent. Jay, are you suggesting this is not the case?.. I'm no physics major and don't pretend to be but it seems that this would be logical to assume that the listed 35 mm equivalent should be standard across the board. For example a typical DSLR with an effective 1.4x magnification factor on a sensor using a 40 mm pancake lens would offer an effective 56 mm equivalent. Many 3-4x optical p&s offer 100-120 mm equivs at the top of the range. Since I don't understand the basis of many of Jay's calculations, I have to plead ignorance. However, anecdotally I can point to the fact that I regularly digiscope side by side with a friend utilizing the Pentax body and 40 mm pancake lens. It seems to me that I regularly achieve a larger subject when comparing the resultant images so I've always assumed this was accurate. At any rate, it does seem odd to me that a camera with a maximum of 56 mm when mounted behind the same scope at the same power is going to show as large an image when coupling a camera with twice the zoom range. Perhaps someone could explain that one to me as this seems very counter-intuitive. The fact that I've ignored the "disadvantage" of always having to focus the scope first with a p&s actually points to our different usage and is an interesting point for consideration. I'm a hardcore birder having worked as professional biologist and/or tour leader for over a quarter century. As such, I ALWAYS use my scope as an observational tool first and then pull the camera out and mount it when I want to take a picture, so this ability would have never even occurred to me as a disadvantage actually! It's an interesting point, are you a birder taking pictures through the scope you always carry, or are you a photographer stalking wildlife with a scope! I wonder how often this inherent difference leads to miscommunications, and misunderstandings between these two basic yet differing approaches. I will indeed post a review of the D-Lux 4 (likley on my blog with a link here) soon. I will say upfront that despite having filter thread capabilities, this camera does not function effectively with the tubular screw thread adapters like the Swarovski DCA :(. The reason for this is that the physical mechanical motion of the lens retracts as you move from wide to telephoto, (reverse from most camera lenses that typically extend). As such, when you increase camera zoom the lens moves further from the eyepiece and unfortunately from my tests I've found that the average distance between the two lenses needs to be closer together as you zoom (e.g. on the Leica 25-50x ww zoom with D-Lux camera zoom near 1x and scope at 25x the camera sits ~11mm off the eyepiece. When the camera and scope zooms at maximum power I need the lenses between 3-4 mm to achieve a full, shadow free frame. Fortunately this camera would still work with the new Swarovski UCA or DCB, and the many other adapters I listed in my post yesterday (basically any non-filter thread dependant adapter). Best, Jeff --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Bruce deGraaf wrote: From: Bruce deGraaf Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:08 PM Jeff, While I agree that the G1 with the 14-45mm lens only works in a limited zoom range with fixed focal eyepieces, you seem to be ignoring the fact that it works flawlessly without vignetting when using the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 pancake lens, for both fixed and zoom eyepieces. I have personally used that combination with the 30x and 20-60x Swarovski eyepieces on my ATS80HD as well as the with the Kowa 20-60x on a Kowa 884 scope and fully expect that it will work just as well with any other scope/eyepiece combination . For both the Swarovski and Kowa there is absolutely no vignetting throughout the entire zoom range and no darkening around the perimeter or other issues image issues. There may be a fairly high initial investment for the DMC-G1 and the Pentax lens and Borg adapters, but a lot of time and money spent can be spent buying cameras that provide marginal results, mot to mention the wasted opportunities in the field. While the G1 has many advanced features, it is extremely easy to use with the Pentax lens. Here are the steps: 1) set a menu function once to allow it to operate without a lens (since it can't talk with the Pentax lens), 2) set the quality to Raw or whatever JPEG quality you want, again usually a one time adjustment, 3) put the camera in aperture priority using a dial on the top of the camera, 4) set another dial on the top of the camera to manual focus mode, 5) set the ISO to whatever you want or Auto ISO, 6) focus, shoot, and repeat step 6). You also seem to be ignoring that with the point and shoot cameras, your must first focus the scope so that the subject is within the focusing range of the point and shoot camera. Point and shoot cameras just can't handle the entire focusing range of the scope. I can focus faster and more accurately using the the Electronic Viewfinder (EV) on the G1 and the focus on my scope in manual focus mode, even without using the focus magnification capability, than I ever could on any of the point and shoot cameras that I have owed or tried with or without autofocus. The EV on the G1 provides excellent details and is unaffected by bright sunlight. The LCDs on every Point and Shoot I've used have problems in bright sunlight and the focusing system can be easily fooled by branches and other nearby objects. Your point about the focal length advantage of Point and Shoots is also misleading. I calculated the effective digiscoping focal length of the G1 with the Pentax 40mm, using Jay Tubervilles Digiscope Calculator (http://www.jayandwa nda.com/digiscop e/digiscope_ calc.html),. The G1 provides a 35mm equivalent of 1600mm at 20x; 2400mm at 30x, 3200mm at 40x, 4800mm at 60x. These focal lengths are similar to many Point and Shoot cameras and provide excellent reach beyond what is possible with DSLRs. I don't think that you can see the advantage of the G1 because you have never tried one yourself with a lens that was compatible with digiscoping. I doubt that anyone at your photo shoot was using a G1 with the Pentax 40mm lens so your point about the quality of the photos shot side by side was misleading. Please understand that I don't expect you or anyone else to jump on the G1 bandwagon but group members deserve the facts about the camera and compatible lenses, something that was completely lacking in your post with respect to the performance of the G1 with the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 lens. 5% or less may decide to use the G1, but all should have the facts, so that they can decide for themselves. If you're happy with your point and shoot camera, use it and please post information about your setup within the group so others can easily find it. I searched the group archives and found no references for the "D-Lux 4" that you currently use and only 10 hits for "D-Lux" in general, the most recent was 2 years ago. Who would have known from searching this group that it was your preferred digiscoping camera? And you can still buy it! Why are you keeping it such as secret if it works so well? Wouldn't your time be better spent telling the group about how to use the D-Lux 4 with various scopes versus critiquing the G1 that you have never used? The G1 may require a fairly heavy initial investment, but its part of a camera system that I expect to be around for quite awhile. So upgrading the body won't obsolete the rest of your equipment. Besides, its an excellent camera for many other types of photography. If anyone wants a Raw and/or JPEG image of any of the digiscoped photos that I've taken with the G1, I would be more than happy to send you one (make sure you have a Google mail account that can handle the large file size). Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA brucedegraaf. zenfolio. com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jbouton2 AT yahoo. com" To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 3:46:39 PM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 Roy, When we were all standing together in St. Augustine, Florida you may remember we were unable to get vignette free images with your G-1 on both Clay's Swarovski and my Leica scope, so I walked away feeling it had compatibility issues with both of these scopes. In independant tests Bill Schmoker in CO reconfirmed this seperately and I'm certain I could point to 3 or 4 other similar posts in the very recent archives of people complaining about difficulties using this effectively. Further when I've viewed many images digiscoped with the G1 with a blue sky background the darkening at the corners is VERY noticeable. Which again supports this. So I wouldn't say this is overstated but accurate to that degree at least. The camera works marginally behind many commonly used eyepieces. It seems most of the highlights supporting use of this camera are summarized below with my thoughts / observations on each: 1) more advanced features - I turn to my personal experience with the thousands of potential digiscopers I talk to in the course of each year, and suggest that the most advanced users that are "pushing the envelope" (as in most hobbies) represent a very vocal minority of the overall community (maybe 5%) I suspect if we comparedthe numbers of individuals actively posting vs. the overall membership figures of this and other groups that would be supported as well. It seems to me that nearly all I encounter in the community are looking for more simplistic solutions vs. more complex options actually. (Plus, I highly doubt this has many features that the sophisticated D-Lux 4 for example does not offer). 2) a new contrast-based autofocus - this may be state of the art and novel in a DSLR type body, however p&s cameras have had this all along, so I don't feel I'm settling for second best here either. I've always been very pleased with the speed and functionality of the modern p&s. I'm not opposed to improvement if I can see the advantage, but honestly I don't yet. At present, your offering a new camera that requires a seperate lens that will provide half the overall focal length of many p&s set-ups. The G1 is both larger and heavier than my current cameras. I will concede to the undeniable advantage of shutter burst capabilities, the biggest advantage of most DSLR systems over p&s. However, from everything I've read and the short bit of actual experience I've had with you and your camera. It seems this minor advantage comes at a high cost in functionality. At any rate, we may have to agree to disagree here, but I definitely don't feel I'm settling for a "comfortble" spot and missing out on the state of the art, by not hopping on the G1 bandwagon. So, if you promise to not accuse me of settling for second best, I won't accuse you of getting excited over the Emperor's new clothes! ;p BTW - don't get me wrong, I definitely feel you and others are getting some beautiful shots with the system there is no doubt. But when I compare our shots that we took at the same spots (I love your ruffled-up Tricolored for example) while at the Florida Bird & FotoFest site, http://www.flickr. com/groups/ 1stcoastdigiscop ing/pool/ I feel my images are every bit as good in detail, clarity, sharpness as those taken with the new uber-sexy G1. Too bad we don't have any true, controlled side by sides to compare, but in comparing our flight shots of the Swallow-tailed Kites taken on the same day at the same spot (at different times though) or comparing the detail in our shots of the nesting waders for example I'm very pleased with my simple little p&s camera. http://www.flickr. com/groups/ 1stcoastdigiscop ing/pool/ At any rate, if my best shots seem as good as your best, I'm not giving up any advantage beyond shutter bursts, but gain more zoom in a lighter-weight, more compact package that is easier to use, I don't feel I'm being overly critical but simply honest. Best, Jeff Bouton PS - did you ever get up to see the Sand-Plover or was that when you were travelling? --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Roy Halpin wrote: From: Roy Halpin Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:55 AM Jeff I think this critique is somewhat over stated. I have never had problem with my G1 with the exception of a photo adapter, that was not the camera. Breaking a lens was not the camera's fault it was my fault. New gear generally requires a search for accessories. I can remember searching for an adapter for my Leica APO and CP4500. I went to Malaysia for the adapter. And if I remember correctly the CP900 series and the CP4500 had quite a learning curve for it's time. With your experience apparently you have not spent much time with the wonderful G1 or you would not be making these comments. Some of us take the lead and help those who want only the best. Some of us stay where it is comfortable. Roy Halpin -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Bouton To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 11:22:54 AM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 Playing devil's advocate here again, I'd suggest despite the apparent amazing popularity of the G1 based on the numerous posts by maybe 10 members, it does seem that many of these posts also address great difficulties using this camera. These posts include excessive vignetting, incompatibility, etc. So I gotta say I'm still not sold on this camera. I would suggest that those who have been amazingly impressed by this camera are mostly highly skilled and more technically savvy scopers who post often and really like bells and whistles. However, I'd again suggest that the VAST majority of the quiet skulkers on the list aren't looking for a VERY complex camera that requires a lot of fiddling and crafting to use effectively (e.g. cutting credit cards to insert in slot A...) That's great if this is your focus (pun intended), but for the others who want simplicity, I will suggest I've done more than fine with a very simple point & shoot with the dial turned to the little red camera icon and just pushing the button! ;p Best, Jeff Bouton Leica Sport Optics Port Charlotte, FL PS - check my images here as an example: http://www.flickr. com/photos/ 16435490 AT N00/ their not all magazine covers and a handful are not digiscoped but still plaent y of successes --- On Tue, 6/30/09, gwapuffin wrote: From: gwapuffin Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 7:05 PM I believe that Jeff was making the point that most Point and Shoot cameras do not have threads to mount the current design of tube adapters. Acceptance of an adapter that takes advantage of cameras without lens threads would most certainly expand the posts on this listserve. Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) Gerald White --- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com, Len Blumin wrote: > > Jeff- > The tubular adapter (e.g. Swrovski DCA and others) remains the adapter of > choice for many digi-scopers. You may not realize it, but the DCA does in > fact allow for inward and outward movement of the camera so that the camaera > lens gets closer or further from the eyepiece. from portrait to landscape. > Cheers, Len Blumin > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jeff Bouton wrote: > > In future years as the once common tubular adapters are replaced by these > > new (more inclusive & versatile) adapters, I think we will realize that: > > A) there are actually more than only 2 point & shoot cameras that are good > > for digiscoping (all of a sudden the field goes from 2 to hundreds) :)> > Jeff Bouton > > Product Specialist - Birder / Naturalist Markets > > Leica Sport Optics, USA > > jbouton2 AT ... > Subject: Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Jeff Bouton <jbouton2 AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 08:34:58 -0700 (PDT) OK Bruce,   Fair enough, guilty as charged. I've never tried any G1 but Roy's. My criticism, be it valid or not,  was in response to his implication that those using G1 are at the cutting edge while other's are merely settling for old technology, and from my personal observations that there are far more people reporting problems using the new camera than reporting good results as you are. Looks like you have it figured out though.   Regarding my misrepresentation of the focal lengths, this stems from an old observation that effective overall focal lengths can be figured far more simply. The old method (listed in many websites) suggests that you can simply take the 35mm equivalent listed in the image metadata (as this accounts for the magnification factor of the sensor so should offer a standard) and then perform a straight linear multiplication of scope magnification:   i.e.  100mm equiv image taken at 20x on scope = 2,000 mm effective equivalent.   Jay, are you suggesting this is not the case?.. I'm no physics major and don't pretend to be but it seems that this would be logical to assume that the listed 35 mm equivalent should be standard across the board. For example a typical DSLR with an effective 1.4x magnification factor on a sensor using a 40 mm pancake lens would offer an effective 56 mm equivalent. Many 3-4x optical p&s offer 100-120 mm equivs at the top of the range.   Since I don't understand the basis of many of Jay's calculations, I have to plead ignorance. However, anecdotally I can point to the fact that I regularly digiscope side by side with a friend utilizing the Pentax body and 40 mm pancake lens. It seems to me that I regularly achieve a larger subject when comparing the resultant images so I've always assumed this was accurate. At any rate, it does seem odd to me that a camera with a maximum of 56 mm when mounted behind the same scope at the same power is going to show as large an image when coupling a camera with twice the zoom range. Perhaps someone could explain that one to me as this seems very counter-intuitive.   The fact that I've ignored the "disadvantage" of always having to focus the scope first with a p&s actually points to our different usage and is an interesting point for consideration. I'm a hardcore birder having worked as professional biologist and/or tour leader for over a quarter century. As such, I ALWAYS use my scope as an observational tool first and then pull the camera out and mount it when I want to take a picture, so this ability would have never even occurred to me as a disadvantage actually! It's an interesting point, are you a birder taking pictures through the scope you always carry, or are you a photographer stalking wildlife with a scope! I wonder how often this inherent difference leads to miscommunications, and misunderstandings between these two basic yet differing approaches.   I will indeed post a review of the D-Lux 4 (likley on my blog with a link here) soon. I will say upfront that despite having filter thread capabilities, this camera does not function effectively with the tubular screw thread adapters like the Swarovski DCA :(. The reason for this is that the physical mechanical motion of the lens retracts as you move from wide to telephoto, (reverse from most camera lenses that typically extend). As such, when you increase camera zoom the lens moves further from the eyepiece and unfortunately from my tests I've found that the average distance between the two lenses needs to be closer together as you zoom (e.g. on the Leica 25-50x ww zoom with D-Lux camera zoom near 1x and scope at 25x the camera sits ~11mm off the eyepiece. When the camera and scope zooms at maximum power I need the lenses between 3-4 mm to achieve a full, shadow free frame.   Fortunately this camera would still work with the new Swarovski UCA or DCB, and the many other adapters I listed in my post yesterday (basically any non-filter thread dependant adapter).   Best,   Jeff --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Bruce deGraaf wrote: From: Bruce deGraaf Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:08 PM Jeff, While I agree that the G1 with the 14-45mm lens only works in a limited zoom range with fixed focal eyepieces, you seem to be ignoring the fact that it works flawlessly without vignetting when using the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 pancake lens, for both fixed and zoom eyepieces.  I have personally used that combination with the 30x and 20-60x Swarovski eyepieces on my ATS80HD as well as the with the Kowa 20-60x on a Kowa 884 scope and fully expect that it will work just as well with any other scope/eyepiece combination .  For both the Swarovski and Kowa there is absolutely no vignetting throughout the entire zoom range and no darkening around the perimeter or other issues image issues.  There may be a fairly high initial investment for the DMC-G1 and the Pentax lens and Borg adapters, but a lot of time and money spent can be spent buying cameras that provide marginal results, mot to mention the wasted opportunities in the field. While the G1 has many advanced features, it is extremely easy to use with the Pentax lens.  Here are the steps:  1) set a menu function once to allow it to operate without a lens (since it can't talk with the Pentax lens), 2) set the quality to Raw or whatever JPEG quality you want, again usually a one time adjustment, 3) put the camera in aperture priority using a dial on the top of the camera, 4) set another dial on the top of the camera to manual focus mode, 5) set the ISO to whatever you want or Auto ISO, 6) focus, shoot, and repeat step 6). You also seem to be ignoring that with the point and shoot cameras, your must first focus the scope so that the subject is within the focusing range of the point and shoot camera.  Point and shoot cameras just can't handle the entire focusing range of the scope.  I can focus faster and more accurately using the the Electronic Viewfinder (EV) on the G1 and the focus on my scope in manual focus mode, even without using the focus magnification capability, than I ever could on any of the point and shoot cameras that I have owed or tried with or without autofocus.  The EV on the G1 provides excellent details and is unaffected by bright sunlight.  The LCDs on every Point and Shoot I've used have problems in bright sunlight and the focusing system can be easily fooled by branches and other nearby objects. Your point about the focal length advantage of Point and Shoots is also misleading.   I calculated the effective digiscoping focal length of the G1 with the Pentax 40mm, using Jay Tubervilles Digiscope Calculator (http://www.jayandwa nda.com/digiscop e/digiscope_ calc.html),.  The G1 provides a 35mm equivalent of 1600mm at 20x; 2400mm at 30x, 3200mm at 40x, 4800mm at 60x.  These focal lengths are similar to many Point and Shoot cameras and provide excellent reach beyond what is possible with DSLRs. I don't think that you can see the advantage of the G1 because you have never tried one yourself with a lens that was compatible with digiscoping.  I doubt that anyone at your photo shoot was using a G1 with the Pentax 40mm lens so your point about the quality of the photos shot side by side was misleading.  Please understand that I don't expect you or anyone else to jump on the G1 bandwagon but group members deserve the facts about the camera and compatible lenses, something that was completely lacking in your post with respect to the performance of the G1 with the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 lens.  5% or less may decide to use the G1, but all should have the facts, so that they can decide for themselves.  If you're happy with your point and shoot camera, use it and please post information about your setup within the group so others can easily find it.  I searched the group archives and found no references for the "D-Lux 4" that you currently use and only 10 hits for "D-Lux" in general, the most recent was 2 years ago.  Who would have known from searching this group that it was your preferred digiscoping camera?  And you can still buy it!   Why are you keeping it such as secret if it works so well?  Wouldn't your time be better spent telling the group about how to use the D-Lux 4 with various scopes versus critiquing the G1 that you have never used? The G1 may require a fairly heavy initial investment, but its part of a camera system that I expect to be around for quite awhile.  So upgrading the body won't obsolete the rest of your equipment.  Besides, its an excellent camera for many other types of photography. If anyone wants a Raw and/or JPEG  image of any of the digiscoped photos that I've taken with the G1, I would be more than happy to send you one (make sure you have a Google mail account that can handle the large file size). Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA brucedegraaf. zenfolio. com From: "jbouton2 AT yahoo. com" To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 3:46:39 PM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 Roy,   When we were all standing together in St. Augustine, Florida you may remember we were unable to get vignette free images with your G-1 on both Clay's Swarovski and my Leica scope, so I walked away feeling it had compatibility issues with both of these scopes. In independant tests Bill Schmoker in CO reconfirmed this seperately and I'm certain I could point to 3 or 4 other similar posts in the very recent archives of people complaining about difficulties using this effectively. Further when I've viewed many images digiscoped with the G1 with a blue sky background the darkening at the corners is VERY noticeable. Which again supports this.   So I wouldn't say this is overstated but accurate to that degree at least. The camera works marginally behind many commonly used eyepieces. It seems most of the highlights supporting use of this camera are summarized below with my thoughts / observations on each:   1) more advanced features - I turn to my personal experience with the thousands of potential digiscopers I talk to in the course of each year, and suggest that the most advanced users that are "pushing the envelope" (as in most hobbies) represent a very vocal minority of the overall community (maybe 5%) I suspect if we comparedthe numbers of individuals actively posting vs. the overall membership figures of this and other groups that would be supported as well. It seems to me that nearly all I encounter in the community are looking for more simplistic solutions vs. more complex options actually. (Plus, I highly doubt this has many features that the sophisticated D-Lux 4 for example does not offer).     2) a new contrast-based autofocus - this may be state of the art and novel in a DSLR type body, however p&s cameras have had this all along, so I don't feel I'm settling for second best here either. I've always been very pleased with the speed and functionality of the modern p&s.  I'm not opposed to improvement if I can see the advantage, but honestly I don't yet. At present, your offering a new camera that requires a seperate lens that will provide half the overall focal length of many p&s set-ups. The G1 is both larger and heavier than my current cameras. I will concede to the undeniable advantage of shutter burst capabilities, the biggest advantage of most DSLR systems over p&s. However, from everything I've read and the short bit of actual experience I've had with you and your camera. It seems this minor advantage comes at a high cost in functionality.   At any rate, we may have to agree to disagree here, but I definitely don't feel I'm settling for a "comfortble" spot and missing out on the state of the art, by not hopping on the G1 bandwagon. So, if you promise to not accuse me of settling for second best, I won't accuse you of getting excited over the Emperor's new clothes! ;p   BTW - don't get me wrong, I definitely feel you and others are getting some beautiful shots with the system there is no doubt. But when I compare our shots that we took at the same spots (I love your ruffled-up Tricolored for example) while at the Florida Bird & FotoFest site, http://www.flickr. com/groups/ 1stcoastdigiscop ing/pool/ I feel my images are every bit as good in detail, clarity, sharpness as those taken with the new uber-sexy G1.   Too bad we don't have any true, controlled side by sides to compare, but in comparing our flight shots of the Swallow-tailed Kites taken on the same day at the same spot (at different times though) or comparing the detail in our shots of the nesting waders for example I'm very pleased with my simple little p&s camera. http://www.flickr. com/groups/ 1stcoastdigiscop ing/pool/   At any rate, if my best shots seem as good as your best, I'm not giving up any advantage beyond shutter bursts, but gain more zoom in a lighter-weight, more compact package that is easier to use, I don't feel I'm being overly critical but simply honest.      Best,   Jeff Bouton   PS - did you ever get up to see the Sand-Plover or was that when you were travelling?   --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Roy Halpin wrote: From: Roy Halpin Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:55 AM Jeff I think this critique is somewhat over stated.  I have never had problem with my G1 with the exception of a photo adapter, that was not the camera.  Breaking a lens was not the camera's fault it was my fault.  New gear generally requires a search for accessories.  I can remember searching for an adapter for my Leica APO and CP4500.  I went to Malaysia for the adapter.  And if I remember correctly the CP900 series and the CP4500 had quite a learning curve for it's time. With your experience apparently you have not spent much time with the wonderful G1 or you would not be making these comments.  Some of us take the lead and help those who want only the best.  Some of us stay where it is comfortable. Roy Halpin From: Jeff Bouton To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 11:22:54 AM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 Playing devil's advocate here again, I'd suggest despite the apparent amazing popularity of the G1 based on the numerous posts by maybe 10 members, it does seem that many of these posts also address great difficulties using this camera. These posts include excessive vignetting, incompatibility, etc. So I gotta say I'm still not sold on this camera.   I would suggest that those who have been amazingly impressed by this camera are mostly highly skilled and more technically savvy scopers who post often and really like bells and whistles. However, I'd again suggest that the VAST majority of the quiet skulkers on the list aren't looking for a VERY complex camera that requires a lot of fiddling and crafting to use effectively (e.g. cutting credit cards to insert in slot A...)   That's great if this is your focus (pun intended), but for the others who want simplicity, I will suggest I've done more than fine with a very simple point & shoot with the dial turned to the little red camera icon and just pushing the button! ;p   Best,   Jeff Bouton Leica Sport Optics Port Charlotte, FL PS - check my images here as an example: http://www.flickr. com/photos/ 16435490 AT N00/ their not all magazine covers and a handful are not digiscoped but still plaent y of successes --- On Tue, 6/30/09, gwapuffin wrote: From: gwapuffin Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 7:05 PM I believe that Jeff was making the point that most Point and Shoot cameras do not have threads to mount the current design of tube adapters. Acceptance of an adapter that takes advantage of cameras without lens threads would most certainly expand the posts on this listserve. Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) Gerald White --- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com, Len Blumin wrote: > > Jeff- > The tubular adapter (e.g. Swrovski DCA and others) remains the adapter of > choice for many digi-scopers. You may not realize it, but the DCA does in > fact allow for inward and outward movement of the camera so that the camaera > lens gets closer or further from the eyepiece. from portrait to landscape. > Cheers, Len Blumin > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jeff Bouton wrote: > > In future years as the once common tubular adapters are replaced by these > > new (more inclusive & versatile) adapters, I think we will realize that: > > A) there are actually more than only 2 point & shoot cameras that are good > > for digiscoping (all of a sudden the field goes from 2 to hundreds) :)> > Jeff Bouton > > Product Specialist - Birder / Naturalist Markets > > Leica Sport Optics, USA > > jbouton2 AT ... > Subject: Re: RAW vs JPEG From: Richard Stern <sternrichard AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:24:35 -0300 Hi, There is a huge volume of on-line info. about this subject, although I suspect very little with regard to digiscoping specifically. It is a subject that seems to polarise photographers, and there are vehement and reasoned arguments for and against both camps. My personal feeling and experience is this - for dSLR photography, I always use raw. I have an expensive (to me!) camera, and expensive lenses, so why wouldn't I try and get the most digital information out of every pixel? Also, if I screw up on exposure or WB, raw is easier to correct than jpeg.(these days I use Lightroom).I do a certain amount of post-processing on nearly every shot, although I do try to get it right in camera, to minimise that, so it doesn't really matter to me in terms of time, effort etc., which format I use. I have used a number of cameras for digiscoping - CP995, CP4500, Sony W5, and currently experimenting with Panasonic SZ3. None of them have had a raw option, and from my reading, those point and shoots that do, it's very slow to write to the card, or uses a huge amount of memory etc. So with point and shoots, jpeg is better for digiscoping. I'll leave it to others to comment on the G1/ GH1. After correct and careful application of color corrections, noise reduction and sharpening, I defy anyone to tell whether the original shot was raw or jpeg. Richard On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Mike Grant wrote: > > > I have digiscoped for years but never used the RAW capture format. Do > you all find that it makes a big difference in the final outcome, given > available noise reduction programs? > > Thanks, > Mike Grant > Chesterfield, MO > > -- ################# Richard Stern, 317 Middle Dyke Rd. Port Williams, NS, Canada B0P 1T0 sternrichard AT gmail.com ################### Subject: Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Bruce deGraaf <brucedegraaf AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 07:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Mike, The Panasonic web site provides a chart that shows the compatibility of the DMC-G1 with the various Panasonic and Olympus 4/3 lenses. Here's the link: http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/connect/g1.html It indicates that the "ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 50mm F2.0 Macro" lens, which I assume you have, will not autofocus but will control the exposure which should allow you to operate in any of the exposure modes (Aperture or Shutter priority or any of the automated modes). The in/out movement probably has something to do with the interface to this lens. The latest version of the G1 firmware (version 1.3) is supposed to address some lens compatibility issues and might stop the behavior you are seeing. Here's the link to the firmware download site. http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/download/fts/index.html Please let us know if the updated firmware fixes the problem and how this lens works for digiscoping, including some sample photos and/or links. Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA ________________________________ From: Mike Grant To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 9:34:01 AM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 "Here are the steps: 1) set a menu function once to allow it to operate without a lens (since it can't talk with the Pentax lens), " Would I also want this setting with the digital Olympus 50mm four thirds lens? I know the auto focus doesn't work, but does the camera and lens communicate anything else? One slightly annoying thing that happens is that when I power down the lens moves out a tiny bit before retracting fully, which puts stress on the lens and my mount. By the way, I started with the Coolpix 990 and had been using the Olympus C7070wz, until I got a G1 with the right lens. The EV is unbelievably sharp. Mike Grant Chesterfield, MO Subject: Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Mike Grant <mocurlew AT att.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:34:01 -0700 (PDT) "Here are the steps:  1) set a menu function once to allow it to operate without a lens (since it can't talk with the Pentax lens), "   Would I also want this setting with the digital Olympus 50mm four thirds lens?  I know the auto focus doesn't work, but does the camera and lens communicate anything else?  One slightly annoying thing that happens is that when I power down the lens moves out a tiny bit before retracting fully, which puts stress on the lens and my mount.   By the way, I started with the Coolpix 990 and had been using the Olympus C7070wz, until I got a G1 with the right lens.  The EV is unbelievably sharp.   Mike Grant Chesterfield, MO Subject: RAW vs JPEG From: Mike Grant <mocurlew AT att.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:26:18 -0700 (PDT) I have digiscoped for years but never used the RAW capture format.  Do you all find that it makes a big difference in the final outcome, given available noise reduction programs?    Thanks, Mike Grant Chesterfield, MO Subject: The M series of test photos From: Roy Halpin <royhalpin AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:13:54 -0700 (PDT) It has been so cloudy the last few days....I had sun this morning and ran some tests in *.jpg. The shots were at a tag on a telephone pole 21 meters from the camera.. Both lenses work nicely with the Kowa 884, Zoom eyepiece, G1 and Borg adapter. The titles of the photos tell the story of the lens (A or M) power of the eyepiece, ISO and shutter speed. I hope I can re run the test if I get more light this weekend. The Photos were reduced to 600x800. The M test is under a separate email Roy Halpin Subject: Vintage 50mm Pentax lens with Borg and G1 From: Roy Halpin <royhalpin AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:10:09 -0700 (PDT) It has been so cloudy the last few days....I had sun this morning and ran some tests in *.jpg. The shots were at a tag on a telephone pole 21 meters from the camera.. Both lenses work nicely with the Kowa 884, Zoom eyepiece, G1 and Borg adapter. The titles of the photos tell the story of the lens (A or M) power of the eyepiece, ISO and shutter speed. I hope I can re run the test if I get more light this weekend. The Photos were reduced to 600x800. The M test is under a separate email Roy Halpin Subject: RE: Nikon P6000 and adapters From: "Bruce E. Webb" <Birder1 AT surewest.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 22:07:22 -0700 I have been looking for one to replace 43mm adapter for my Nikon P6000. I searched and found another company selling it for quite a bit less than the Canadian one on eBay ~$30 US. http://tinyurl.com/ng5cwm It shows the Nikon edge marking. (and has free shipping) I Will let everyone know if it works as advertised. Bruce Webb Granite Bay, CA -----Original Message----- From: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of neilfif11 Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:03 PM To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Nikon P6000 and adapters I may not have mentioned it but I changed my adapter on the Nikon P6000 recently. I was using the Nikon original UR E21 ( 43 mm ) , but as mentioned some time ago this kept the camera lens a bit too far away from the eyepiece on the Swarovski DCA adapter for my liking ( Green Macro "sweet" spot ). I picked up a third party adapter with a 52 mm thread ( I see on the internet that there is a 58 mm one too ) and it's a big improvement . On fixed eyepieces I can now use the Green Macro Zone with no vignetting. http://cgi.ebay.ca/52MM-Lens-Tube-Adapter-For-Nikon-P6000-CA_W0QQitemZ160339 854959QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090604?IMSfp=TL090604147001r4198 Neil Hong Kong, China. July 2009 ------------------------------------ Please post bird photos to our other group birds-pix AT yahoogroups.com.Yahoo! Groups Links Subject: Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Bruce deGraaf <brucedegraaf AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 20:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Jeff, While I agree that the G1 with the 14-45mm lens only works in a limited zoom range with fixed focal eyepieces, you seem to be ignoring the fact that it works flawlessly without vignetting when using the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 pancake lens, for both fixed and zoom eyepieces. I have personally used that combination with the 30x and 20-60x Swarovski eyepieces on my ATS80HD as well as the with the Kowa 20-60x on a Kowa 884 scope and fully expect that it will work just as well with any other scope/eyepiece combination . For both the Swarovski and Kowa there is absolutely no vignetting throughout the entire zoom range and no darkening around the perimeter or other issues image issues. There may be a fairly high initial investment for the DMC-G1 and the Pentax lens and Borg adapters, but a lot of time and money spent can be spent buying cameras that provide marginal results, mot to mention the wasted opportunities in the field. While the G1 has many advanced features, it is extremely easy to use with the Pentax lens. Here are the steps: 1) set a menu function once to allow it to operate without a lens (since it can't talk with the Pentax lens), 2) set the quality to Raw or whatever JPEG quality you want, again usually a one time adjustment, 3) put the camera in aperture priority using a dial on the top of the camera, 4) set another dial on the top of the camera to manual focus mode, 5) set the ISO to whatever you want or Auto ISO, 6) focus, shoot, and repeat step 6). You also seem to be ignoring that with the point and shoot cameras, your must first focus the scope so that the subject is within the focusing range of the point and shoot camera. Point and shoot cameras just can't handle the entire focusing range of the scope. I can focus faster and more accurately using the the Electronic Viewfinder (EV) on the G1 and the focus on my scope in manual focus mode, even without using the focus magnification capability, than I ever could on any of the point and shoot cameras that I have owed or tried with or without autofocus. The EV on the G1 provides excellent details and is unaffected by bright sunlight. The LCDs on every Point and Shoot I've used have problems in bright sunlight and the focusing system can be easily fooled by branches and other nearby objects. Your point about the focal length advantage of Point and Shoots is also misleading. I calculated the effective digiscoping focal length of the G1 with the Pentax 40mm, using Jay Tubervilles Digiscope Calculator (http://www.jayandwanda.com/digiscope/digiscope_calc.html),. The G1 provides a 35mm equivalent of 1600mm at 20x; 2400mm at 30x, 3200mm at 40x, 4800mm at 60x. These focal lengths are similar to many Point and Shoot cameras and provide excellent reach beyond what is possible with DSLRs. I don't think that you can see the advantage of the G1 because you have never tried one yourself with a lens that was compatible with digiscoping. I doubt that anyone at your photo shoot was using a G1 with the Pentax 40mm lens so your point about the quality of the photos shot side by side was misleading. Please understand that I don't expect you or anyone else to jump on the G1 bandwagon but group members deserve the facts about the camera and compatible lenses, something that was completely lacking in your post with respect to the performance of the G1 with the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 lens. 5% or less may decide to use the G1, but all should have the facts, so that they can decide for themselves. If you're happy with your point and shoot camera, use it and please post information about your setup within the group so others can easily find it. I searched the group archives and found no references for the "D-Lux 4" that you currently use and only 10 hits for "D-Lux" in general, the most recent was 2 years ago. Who would have known from searching this group that it was your preferred digiscoping camera? And you can still buy it! Why are you keeping it such as secret if it works so well? Wouldn't your time be better spent telling the group about how to use the D-Lux 4 with various scopes versus critiquing the G1 that you have never used? The G1 may require a fairly heavy initial investment, but its part of a camera system that I expect to be around for quite awhile. So upgrading the body won't obsolete the rest of your equipment. Besides, its an excellent camera for many other types of photography. If anyone wants a Raw and/or JPEG image of any of the digiscoped photos that I've taken with the G1, I would be more than happy to send you one (make sure you have a Google mail account that can handle the large file size). Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com ________________________________ From: "jbouton2 AT yahoo.com" To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 3:46:39 PM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 Roy, When we were all standing together in St. Augustine, Florida you may remember we were unable to get vignette free images with your G-1 on both Clay's Swarovski and my Leica scope, so I walked away feeling it had compatibility issues with both of these scopes. In independant tests Bill Schmoker in CO reconfirmed this seperately and I'm certain I could point to 3 or 4 other similar posts in the very recent archives of people complaining about difficulties using this effectively. Further when I've viewed many images digiscoped with the G1 with a blue sky background the darkening at the corners is VERY noticeable. Which again supports this. So I wouldn't say this is overstated but accurate to that degree at least. The camera works marginally behind many commonly used eyepieces. It seems most of the highlights supporting use of this camera are summarized below with my thoughts / observations on each: 1) more advanced features - I turn to my personal experience with the thousands of potential digiscopers I talk to in the course of each year, and suggest that the most advanced users that are "pushing the envelope" (as in most hobbies) represent a very vocal minority of the overall community (maybe 5%) I suspect if we comparedthe numbers of individuals actively posting vs. the overall membership figures of this and other groups that would be supported as well. It seems to me that nearly all I encounter in the community are looking for more simplistic solutions vs. more complex options actually. (Plus, I highly doubt this has many features that the sophisticated D-Lux 4 for example does not offer). 2) a new contrast-based autofocus - this may be state of the art and novel in a DSLR type body, however p&s cameras have had this all along, so I don't feel I'm settling for second best here either. I've always been very pleased with the speed and functionality of the modern p&s. I'm not opposed to improvement if I can see the advantage, but honestly I don't yet. At present, your offering a new camera that requires a seperate lens that will provide half the overall focal length of many p&s set-ups. The G1 is both larger and heavier than my current cameras. I will concede to the undeniable advantage of shutter burst capabilities, the biggest advantage of most DSLR systems over p&s. However, from everything I've read and the short bit of actual experience I've had with you and your camera. It seems this minor advantage comes at a high cost in functionality. At any rate, we may have to agree to disagree here, but I definitely don't feel I'm settling for a "comfortble" spot and missing out on the state of the art, by not hopping on the G1 bandwagon. So, if you promise to not accuse me of settling for second best, I won't accuse you of getting excited over the Emperor's new clothes! ;p BTW - don't get me wrong, I definitely feel you and others are getting some beautiful shots with the system there is no doubt. But when I compare our shots that we took at the same spots (I love your ruffled-up Tricolored for example) while at the Florida Bird & FotoFest site, http://www.flickr. com/groups/ 1stcoastdigiscop ing/pool/ I feel my images are every bit as good in detail, clarity, sharpness as those taken with the new uber-sexy G1. Too bad we don't have any true, controlled side by sides to compare, but in comparing our flight shots of the Swallow-tailed Kites taken on the same day at the same spot (at different times though) or comparing the detail in our shots of the nesting waders for example I'm very pleased with my simple little p&s camera. http://www.flickr. com/groups/ 1stcoastdigiscop ing/pool/ At any rate, if my best shots seem as good as your best, I'm not giving up any advantage beyond shutter bursts, but gain more zoom in a lighter-weight, more compact package that is easier to use, I don't feel I'm being overly critical but simply honest. Best, Jeff Bouton PS - did you ever get up to see the Sand-Plover or was that when you were travelling? --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Roy Halpin wrote: >From: Roy Halpin >Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 >To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com >Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:55 AM > > >Jeff I think this critique is somewhat over stated. I have never had problem with my G1 with the exception of a photo adapter, that was not the camera. Breaking a lens was not the camera's fault it was my fault. New gear generally requires a search for accessories. I can remember searching for an adapter for my Leica APO and CP4500. I went to Malaysia for the adapter. And if I remember correctly the CP900 series and the CP4500 had quite a learning curve for it's time. With your experience apparently you have not spent much time with the wonderful G1 or you would not be making these comments. Some of us take the lead and help those who want only the best. Some of us stay where it is comfortable. > >Roy Halpin > > > > ________________________________ From: Jeff Bouton >To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com >Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 11:22:54 AM >Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 > > > > >Playing devil's advocate here again, I'd suggest despite the apparent amazing popularity of the G1 based on the numerous posts by maybe 10 members, it does seem that many of these posts also address great difficulties using this camera. These posts include excessive vignetting, incompatibility, etc. So I gotta say I'm still not sold on this camera. > >I would suggest that those who have been amazingly impressed by this camera are mostly highly skilled and more technically savvy scopers who post often and really like bells and whistles. However, I'd again suggest that the VAST majority of the quiet skulkers on the list aren't looking for a VERY complex camera that requires a lot of fiddling and crafting to use effectively (e.g. cutting credit cards to insert in slot A...) > >That's great if this is your focus (pun intended), but for the others who want simplicity, I will suggest I've done more than fine with a very simple point & shoot with the dial turned to the little red camera icon and just pushing the button! ;p > >Best, > >Jeff Bouton >Leica Sport Optics >Port Charlotte, FL > >PS - check my images here as an example: >http://www.flickr. com/photos/ 16435490 AT N00/ >their not all magazine covers and a handful are not digiscoped but still plaent y of successes > >--- On Tue, 6/30/09, gwapuffin wrote: > > >>From: gwapuffin >>Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 >>To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com >>Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 7:05 PM >> >> >>I believe that Jeff was making the point that most Point and Shoot cameras do not have threads to mount the current design of tube adapters. Acceptance of an adapter that takes advantage of cameras without lens threads would most certainly expand the posts on this listserve. Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) >> >>Gerald White >> >>--- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com, Len Blumin wrote: >>> >>> Jeff- >>> The tubular adapter (e.g. Swrovski DCA and others) remains the adapter of >>> choice for many digi-scopers. You may not realize it, but the DCA does in >>> fact allow for inward and outward movement of the camera so that the >> camaera >>> lens gets closer or further from the eyepiece. from portrait to landscape. >> >>> Cheers, Len Blumin >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jeff Bouton wrote: >> >>> > In future years as the once common tubular adapters are replaced by these >>> > new (more inclusive & versatile) adapters, I think we will realize that: >>> > A) there are actually more than only 2 point & shoot cameras that are good >>> > for digiscoping (all of a sudden the field goes from 2 to hundreds) :)> > Jeff Bouton >>> > Product Specialist - Birder / Naturalist Markets >>> > Leica Sport Optics, USA >>> > jbouton2 AT ... >>> >> >> > > > > Subject: Nikon P6000 and adapters From: neilfif11 <neilfif11 AT yahoo.com.au> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 07:02:33 +0800 I may not have mentioned it but I changed my adapter on the Nikon P6000 recently. I was using the Nikon original UR E21 ( 43 mm ) , but as mentioned some time ago this kept the camera lens a bit too far away from the eyepiece on the Swarovski DCA adapter for my liking ( Green Macro "sweet" spot ). I picked up a third party adapter with a 52 mm thread ( I see on the internet that there is a 58 mm one too ) and it's a big improvement . On fixed eyepieces I can now use the Green Macro Zone with no vignetting. http://cgi.ebay.ca/52MM-Lens-Tube-Adapter-For-Nikon-P6000-CA_W0QQitemZ160339854959QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090604?IMSfp=TL090604147001r4198 Neil Hong Kong, China. July 2009 Subject: Re: Vintage 50mm Pentax Lens From: Roy Halpin <royhalpin AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Both of these Pentax 50mm work just fine. Light was poor today AT 50X my shutter speed was 1/8 second. This produced a noisy shot. Roy Halpin ________________________________ From: Roy Halpin To: digi scope Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:33:51 PM Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Vintage 50mm Pentax Lens For My G1 and the Borg Adapter I just received two vintage Pentax 50mm lenses. One is a M series f/1.7 and the other is an f/1.2 A series. They are both in excellent shape. With the Borg adapter neither will focus at infinity at the max f/ stop, but at f/3 or better there is not infinity focus problem. I do not believe this will affect digiscoping and I will find out later today. At least I will toys while my 40mm is being repaired. Roy Halpin Subject: Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: jbouton2 AT yahoo.com Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Roy,   When we were all standing together in St. Augustine, Florida you may remember we were unable to get vignette free images with your G-1 on both Clay's Swarovski and my Leica scope, so I walked away feeling it had compatibility issues with both of these scopes. In independant tests Bill Schmoker in CO reconfirmed this seperately and I'm certain I could point to 3 or 4 other similar posts in the very recent archives of people complaining about difficulties using this effectively. Further when I've viewed many images digiscoped with the G1 with a blue sky background the darkening at the corners is VERY noticeable. Which again supports this.   So I wouldn't say this is overstated but accurate to that degree at least. The camera works marginally behind many commonly used eyepieces. It seems most of the highlights supporting use of this camera are summarized below with my thoughts / observations on each:   1) more advanced features - I turn to my personal experience with the thousands of potential digiscopers I talk to in the course of each year, and suggest that the most advanced users that are "pushing the envelope" (as in most hobbies) represent a very vocal minority of the overall community (maybe 5%) I suspect if we comparedthe numbers of individuals actively posting vs. the overall membership figures of this and other groups that would be supported as well. It seems to me that nearly all I encounter in the community are looking for more simplistic solutions vs. more complex options actually. (Plus, I highly doubt this has many features that the sophisticated D-Lux 4 for example does not offer).     2) a new contrast-based autofocus - this may be state of the art and novel in a DSLR type body, however p&s cameras have had this all along, so I don't feel I'm settling for second best here either. I've always been very pleased with the speed and functionality of the modern p&s.  I'm not opposed to improvement if I can see the advantage, but honestly I don't yet. At present, your offering a new camera that requires a seperate lens that will provide half the overall focal length of many p&s set-ups. The G1 is both larger and heavier than my current cameras. I will concede to the undeniable advantage of shutter burst capabilities, the biggest advantage of most DSLR systems over p&s. However, from everything I've read and the short bit of actual experience I've had with you and your camera. It seems this minor advantage comes at a high cost in functionality.   At any rate, we may have to agree to disagree here, but I definitely don't feel I'm settling for a "comfortble" spot and missing out on the state of the art, by not hopping on the G1 bandwagon. So, if you promise to not accuse me of settling for second best, I won't accuse you of getting excited over the Emperor's new clothes! ;p   BTW - don't get me wrong, I definitely feel you and others are getting some beautiful shots with the system there is no doubt. But when I compare our shots that we took at the same spots (I love your ruffled-up Tricolored for example) while at the Florida Bird & FotoFest site, http://www.flickr.com/groups/1stcoastdigiscoping/pool/ I feel my images are every bit as good in detail, clarity, sharpness as those taken with the new uber-sexy G1.   Too bad we don't have any true, controlled side by sides to compare, but in comparing our flight shots of the Swallow-tailed Kites taken on the same day at the same spot (at different times though) or comparing the detail in our shots of the nesting waders for example I'm very pleased with my simple little p&s camera. http://www.flickr.com/groups/1stcoastdigiscoping/pool/   At any rate, if my best shots seem as good as your best, I'm not giving up any advantage beyond shutter bursts, but gain more zoom in a lighter-weight, more compact package that is easier to use, I don't feel I'm being overly critical but simply honest.      Best,   Jeff Bouton   PS - did you ever get up to see the Sand-Plover or was that when you were travelling?   --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Roy Halpin wrote: From: Roy Halpin Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:55 AM Jeff I think this critique is somewhat over stated.  I have never had problem with my G1 with the exception of a photo adapter, that was not the camera.  Breaking a lens was not the camera's fault it was my fault.  New gear generally requires a search for accessories.  I can remember searching for an adapter for my Leica APO and CP4500.  I went to Malaysia for the adapter.  And if I remember correctly the CP900 series and the CP4500 had quite a learning curve for it's time. With your experience apparently you have not spent much time with the wonderful G1 or you would not be making these comments.  Some of us take the lead and help those who want only the best.  Some of us stay where it is comfortable. Roy Halpin From: Jeff Bouton To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 11:22:54 AM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 Playing devil's advocate here again, I'd suggest despite the apparent amazing popularity of the G1 based on the numerous posts by maybe 10 members, it does seem that many of these posts also address great difficulties using this camera. These posts include excessive vignetting, incompatibility, etc. So I gotta say I'm still not sold on this camera.   I would suggest that those who have been amazingly impressed by this camera are mostly highly skilled and more technically savvy scopers who post often and really like bells and whistles. However, I'd again suggest that the VAST majority of the quiet skulkers on the list aren't looking for a VERY complex camera that requires a lot of fiddling and crafting to use effectively (e.g. cutting credit cards to insert in slot A...)   That's great if this is your focus (pun intended), but for the others who want simplicity, I will suggest I've done more than fine with a very simple point & shoot with the dial turned to the little red camera icon and just pushing the button! ;p   Best,   Jeff Bouton Leica Sport Optics Port Charlotte, FL PS - check my images here as an example: http://www.flickr. com/photos/ 16435490 AT N00/ their not all magazine covers and a handful are not digiscoped but still plaent y of successes --- On Tue, 6/30/09, gwapuffin wrote: From: gwapuffin Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 7:05 PM I believe that Jeff was making the point that most Point and Shoot cameras do not have threads to mount the current design of tube adapters. Acceptance of an adapter that takes advantage of cameras without lens threads would most certainly expand the posts on this listserve. Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) Gerald White --- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com, Len Blumin wrote: > > Jeff- > The tubular adapter (e.g. Swrovski DCA and others) remains the adapter of > choice for many digi-scopers. You may not realize it, but the DCA does in > fact allow for inward and outward movement of the camera so that the camaera > lens gets closer or further from the eyepiece. from portrait to landscape. > Cheers, Len Blumin > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jeff Bouton wrote: > > In future years as the once common tubular adapters are replaced by these > > new (more inclusive & versatile) adapters, I think we will realize that: > > A) there are actually more than only 2 point & shoot cameras that are good > > for digiscoping (all of a sudden the field goes from 2 to hundreds) :)> > Jeff Bouton > > Product Specialist - Birder / Naturalist Markets > > Leica Sport Optics, USA > > jbouton2 AT ... > Subject: Vintage 50mm Pentax Lens From: Roy Halpin <royhalpin AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:33:51 -0700 (PDT) For My G1 and the Borg Adapter I just received two vintage Pentax 50mm lenses. One is a M series f/1.7 and the other is an f/1.2 A series. They are both in excellent shape. With the Borg adapter neither will focus at infinity at the max f/ stop, but at f/3 or better there is not infinity focus problem. I do not believe this will affect digiscoping and I will find out later today. At least I will toys while my 40mm is being repaired. Roy Halpin Subject: Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Roy Halpin <royhalpin AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 08:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Jeff I think this critique is somewhat over stated. I have never had problem with my G1 with the exception of a photo adapter, that was not the camera. Breaking a lens was not the camera's fault it was my fault. New gear generally requires a search for accessories. I can remember searching for an adapter for my Leica APO and CP4500. I went to Malaysia for the adapter. And if I remember correctly the CP900 series and the CP4500 had quite a learning curve for it's time. With your experience apparently you have not spent much time with the wonderful G1 or you would not be making these comments. Some of us take the lead and help those who want only the best. Some of us stay where it is comfortable. Roy Halpin ________________________________ From: Jeff Bouton To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 11:22:54 AM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 Playing devil's advocate here again, I'd suggest despite the apparent amazing popularity of the G1 based on the numerous posts by maybe 10 members, it does seem that many of these posts also address great difficulties using this camera. These posts include excessive vignetting, incompatibility, etc. So I gotta say I'm still not sold on this camera. I would suggest that those who have been amazingly impressed by this camera are mostly highly skilled and more technically savvy scopers who post often and really like bells and whistles. However, I'd again suggest that the VAST majority of the quiet skulkers on the list aren't looking for a VERY complex camera that requires a lot of fiddling and crafting to use effectively (e.g. cutting credit cards to insert in slot A...) That's great if this is your focus (pun intended), but for the others who want simplicity, I will suggest I've done more than fine with a very simple point & shoot with the dial turned to the little red camera icon and just pushing the button! ;p Best, Jeff Bouton Leica Sport Optics Port Charlotte, FL PS - check my images here as an example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16435490 AT N00/ their not all magazine covers and a handful are not digiscoped but still plaent y of successes --- On Tue, 6/30/09, gwapuffin wrote: >From: gwapuffin >Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 >To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com >Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 7:05 PM > > >I believe that Jeff was making the point that most Point and Shoot cameras do not have threads to mount the current design of tube adapters. Acceptance of an adapter that takes advantage of cameras without lens threads would most certainly expand the posts on this listserve. Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) > >Gerald White > >--- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com, Len Blumin wrote: >> >> Jeff- >> The tubular adapter (e.g. Swrovski DCA and others) remains the adapter of >> choice for many digi-scopers. You may not realize it, but the DCA does in >> fact allow for inward and > outward movement of the camera so that the camaera >> lens gets closer or further from the eyepiece. from portrait to landscape. > >> Cheers, Len Blumin >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jeff Bouton wrote: > >> > In future years as the once common tubular adapters are replaced by these >> > new (more inclusive & versatile) adapters, I think we will realize that: >> > A) there are actually more than only 2 point & shoot cameras that are good >> > for digiscoping (all of a sudden the field goes from 2 to hundreds) :)> > Jeff Bouton >> > Product Specialist - Birder / Naturalist Markets >> > Leica Sport Optics, USA >> > jbouton2 AT ... >> > > Subject: Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Jeff Bouton <jbouton2 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 08:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Playing devil's advocate here again, I'd suggest despite the apparent amazing popularity of the G1 based on the numerous posts by maybe 10 members, it does seem that many of these posts also address great difficulties using this camera. These posts include excessive vignetting, incompatibility, etc. So I gotta say I'm still not sold on this camera.   I would suggest that those who have been amazingly impressed by this camera are mostly highly skilled and more technically savvy scopers who post often and really like bells and whistles. However, I'd again suggest that the VAST majority of the quiet skulkers on the list aren't looking for a VERY complex camera that requires a lot of fiddling and crafting to use effectively (e.g. cutting credit cards to insert in slot A...)   That's great if this is your focus (pun intended), but for the others who want simplicity, I will suggest I've done more than fine with a very simple point & shoot with the dial turned to the little red camera icon and just pushing the button! ;p   Best,   Jeff Bouton Leica Sport Optics Port Charlotte, FL PS - check my images here as an example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16435490 AT N00/ their not all magazine covers and a handful are not digiscoped but still plaent y of successes --- On Tue, 6/30/09, gwapuffin wrote: From: gwapuffin Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 7:05 PM I believe that Jeff was making the point that most Point and Shoot cameras do not have threads to mount the current design of tube adapters. Acceptance of an adapter that takes advantage of cameras without lens threads would most certainly expand the posts on this listserve. Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) Gerald White --- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com, Len Blumin wrote: > > Jeff- > The tubular adapter (e.g. Swrovski DCA and others) remains the adapter of > choice for many digi-scopers. You may not realize it, but the DCA does in > fact allow for inward and outward movement of the camera so that the camaera > lens gets closer or further from the eyepiece. from portrait to landscape. > Cheers, Len Blumin > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jeff Bouton wrote: > > In future years as the once common tubular adapters are replaced by these > > new (more inclusive & versatile) adapters, I think we will realize that: > > A) there are actually more than only 2 point & shoot cameras that are good > > for digiscoping (all of a sudden the field goes from 2 to hundreds) :)> > Jeff Bouton > > Product Specialist - Birder / Naturalist Markets > > Leica Sport Optics, USA > > jbouton2 AT ... > Subject: Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Jeff Bouton <jbouton2 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 08:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Gang,   I'll qualify my statements below to eliminate the confusion:   You are right that I am talking specifically about p&s cameras even though I may not have been clear here. I've not shot DSLR's afocally because I don't want to deal with a more complex, heavier camera that won't autofocus. I'm VERY happy with my p&s performance and results I've had  over the past 5 years: >60 images published in 7 different bird and photo magazines and a couple books - Wildbird, Birder's World, PC Photographer, Outdoor Photographer, Birding Business... Further, the VAST majority of these have been shot with a very simplistic p&s camera shot in fine JPEG only (some have referred to these as dumbed down cameras).   Yep, I just put the dial on the little camera icon and simply push the button and let the camera do all the work! It autofocus, figures the exposure and BAM! I got a picture. The only camera adjustment I typically use is exposure compensation to lighten or darken the subject if I feel it is too light or dark. Additionally, my past simplistic set-up allowed me to achieve a 6,000 mm lens equivalent, twice the magnification of any afocal DSLR setup.   I, of course, realize the amazing popularity of the tubular style adapter, but I think it also worthy to note that this only addresses one adapter and for the most part one scope brand. The rules that apply to that set up will not work for any of the following adapters (among others) which are prone to proper camera alignment for success:   Swarovski DCB & the new UCA Zeiss Quick Camera Adapter Pentax UA-1 Kowa DA4 Nikon Universal Bracket Alpen Camera Adapter Leica digital adapter 2 & digital adapter 3 Bushnell photo adapter Leopold photo adapter and all of the many non-branded generic platform style adapters. ... to name a few!   Despite this lengthy list of adapters, though, it still seems the vast majority of the information given is geared toward a single adapter style only. As well, every published list of suitable cameras I've seen on this list, considers the availability of filter threads as one of the first selection criterion, eliminating EVERY other camera despite the fact that these are usable by all of the adapters listed above.   I would also refute the claim that all cameras without thread accessory availability are dumbed-down. While true that all of the VERY few cameras to include this very rare option would almost certainly be chock-full-of other bells & whistles, there are still dozens of cameras without threads that offer more options than most shooters would ever wnat to use!   Yes, I also realize that you can adjust away from the lens with a tubular style adapter, but my point is that you will always be limited as to how close you can get the lenses. E.g. you will always have the metal plate of the adapter between the two lenses (between 1-2 mm thick), plus the threads of the adapter - moving you back another 2 mm or more, in some cases you may have a reducing bushing between the tubular adapter threads and the camera accessory threads... After this you have to consider the space lost due to the camera's filter thread/accessory adapter. This sits out beyond the maximum extension of the lens as well so you now have to account for another set of threads, the thickness of this piece of metal and there is almost certainly a small gap here to insure the lens doesn't collide with the accessory adapter. Add these all up and you see my point that you can never get the glass of the camera lens to reach within my guesstimate of 5-6 mm (minimum) from the eyepiece. Therefore, I reiterate, that you can never get the lenses too close together with this type of adapter. Am I wrong?...   In a recent test I found that one p&s camera functioned at it's best when the lenses were between 3-4mm apart when both eyepiece and camera zoom were at full. Using a tubular mount with filter threads you would have not been able to achieve shadow free imaging as the field collapsed at less than half zoom on the eyepiece when the camera was further away.   So yes, tubular adapters are popular (especially among long time scopers) mostly because they were the first type of adapters commercially available, and they do make centering near fool proof. However, (DSLR's aside) they only lend themselves to use with ~1% of available cameras so they are extremely limited in this regard and I maintain that they likely also don't allow for use of full zoom in many instances even though the camera may be capable of this.   My point was not to refute the validity of these mounts, but to offer advice to the many other digiscopers who do not have this system some useful advice to aid them in their efforts.   As an interesting point I wonder if production of the new Swarovski UCA, means the popular DCA will be replaced?... Clay?!?.. At any rate, it does seem this piece is designed in a similar manner with a tubular mount, but without the filter thread so it will do everything the DCA does and more. If this is the case then dependence on filter threads will really be a thing of the past for all new digiscopers, and camera alignment will be a valid consideration in every digiscoping set-up.   Sorry, to make things so confusing, hopefully I addressed all of the points made.   Best,   Jeff Bouton  --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Jay Turberville wrote: From: Jay Turberville Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 9:02 PM > I believe that Jeff was making the point that most Point and Shoot cameras do not have threads to mount the current design of tube adapters. Acceptance of an adapter that takes advantage of cameras without lens threads would most certainly expand the posts on this listserve. Not as much as you might think since many of the cameras that don't have threads are the cameras that are often missing options that serious digiscopers want. Further, as Len pointed out, a well designed tubular adapter typically allows very close approach of the camera front element to the eye lens of the scope. And what he has left out is that the camera based adapters have traditionally been heavier, bulkier, often more expensive as well as more difficult to align consistently and reliably. That said, they can be a good solution depending on your preferences and camera choice. >Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) Maybe not. But please point toward a more promising one. Many of us in this group have tried many different cameras. There is a deep repository of knowledge and experience here. The conclusions and preferences arrived at by many of the experienced digiscopers here were not arrived at through happenstance. There have been LOTS of things tried. There is a reason that so many are interested in the G1 and GH1. That said, anybody who can show a better way is always welcome. Well, just about anybody is welcome anyway. Some of us just might not agree with what is said is all. But the key here is to "show" a better way. Theories that don't jibe with the collective experience are not likely to be persuasive. Demonstrations of better methods and the pictures that prove the methods better are very persuasive. As for me, I do not think that the use of camera body based adapters is going to unleash the potential of hundreds of better digiscoping cameras. The simple fact is that there aren't that many good compact cameras made these days. Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda. com Subject: Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Bruce deGraaf <brucedegraaf AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 05:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Is the DMC-G1 the only camera worth talking about? Having used several cameras for digiscoping prior to the DMC-G1 including the Nikon Coolpix 4500, Contax U4R, Fujifilm FinePix F30 and Canon 20D, and having tested numerous others at Ritz, Best Buy and Circuit City (they all let me take my scope in the store for trials), for me at least the G1 has put new life into digiscoping. Why? It has an excellent electronic viewfinder (EV), articulated high resolution LCD, great image quality and interchangeable lenses. Having an interchangeable lens guarantees that as either Panasonic or Olympus upgrades the Micro 4/3 camera series, the new models will work for digiscoping. I'm confident that the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 lens pancake lens will works well with any fixed or zoom scope eyepieces with no vignetting, as it does with the Swarovski and Kowa scopes that I've tried. The EV assures that you can take photos in bright sunlight without the need for a lens hood. The bright articulated LCD screen allows you to show others what you are photographing -- for example allowing me to show a group of kids on a school trip a live view of the Eagle nest in Northern Worcester County rather than lining them up one at a time to pear into the eyepiece ... while I continue to take photos using the wired remote. Using the manual focus system with the zoom feature, my shots are always in focus (the school kids loved seeing a zoomed view of the Eagles head using this feature). I never have to take the camera off the scope in order to guarantee that the scope was in focus as I did with all my other cameras. The Swarovski DCA isn't perfect but it assures proper alignment of the camera with the eyepiece and rapid installation and removal of the camera; the similar Kowa adapter is even better. The universal adapters I've tried are problematic to align and keep align and slow to setup in the field. Although there are undoubtedly group members who would like to spend less, with the G1 you are buying into the Micro 4/3 system ($650 for the G1 plus $500 for the Pentax and Borg (or Novoflex) adapter, $60 for the wired remote, and $60 for a spare battery) that will continue to support digiscoping. Given the quality and range (1200mm to over 2000mm), its a bargin when compared to the price of a 500 to 800mm lens. You can spend a lot of time and money hunting around for a something better to come along while this excellent camera is available today and you could be out in the field using it. In case you can't tell, for me right now the DMC-G1 is the holy grail of digiscoping and it deserves the attention it has been getting on this group. I'll be watching for its predeccessor while I enjoy using it out in some misquito invested swamp, forest or field. Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com ________________________________ From: gwapuffin To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:05:04 PM Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 I believe that Jeff was making the point that most Point and Shoot cameras do not have threads to mount the current design of tube adapters. Acceptance of an adapter that takes advantage of cameras without lens threads would most certainly expand the posts on this listserve. Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) Gerald White --- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com, Len Blumin wrote: > > Jeff- > The tubular adapter (e.g. Swrovski DCA and others) remains the adapter of > choice for many digi-scopers. You may not realize it, but the DCA does in > fact allow for inward and outward movement of the camera so that the camaera > lens gets closer or further from the eyepiece. from portrait to landscape. > Cheers, Len Blumin > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jeff Bouton wrote: > > In future years as the once common tubular adapters are replaced by these > > new (more inclusive & versatile) adapters, I think we will realize that: > > A) there are actually more than only 2 point & shoot cameras that are good > > for digiscoping (all of a sudden the field goes from 2 to hundreds) :)> > Jeff Bouton > > Product Specialist - Birder / Naturalist Markets > > Leica Sport Optics, USA > > jbouton2 AT ... > Subject: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Mark Stewart <mark AT flyingvet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 08:39:56 +0100 Thanks Jeff - your differentiation between vignetting and shadowing was very illuminating and helpful. It certainly opened my eyes! On 30 Jun 2009, at 18:59, Jeff Bouton wrote: > This installment deals with proper techniques for lining up your > camera, including a section on how to determine the proper spacing > between the camera lens and the scope eyepiece and is given in > simple terms with images to demonstrate how coupling errs will be > perceived on the camera viewfinder or subsequent image. This is > something not found in many (most?) digiscoping descriptions due to > the inherent biases introduced by the many early digiscoping > adapters that utilize filter thread rings. Mark /-i Subject: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: "smithhill20" <smithhill1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:47:36 -0000 I use two fine point and shoot cameras that have a bayonet or thread attachment to the body around the lens. The filter adapter tube of the LX3 has female 46mm threads on the outer end and the adapter tube for the Canon A-590 has 52mm threads. These certainly attach to anything a lens thread will attach to with the proper adapter rings. The 265 gram LX3 has been praised for its optical quality, has a large display of over 400K, and auto-focuses very well in digiscope mode. Please see my attached photo of a cardinal at 50 feet through my Orion 80 ED scope. You may have to click on the image to expand it. http://www.PhotoShare.co.nz/PhotoShareGallery1/101684/109654/Q-E804-18Cards1022530.jpg Gene Smith --- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com, Lehmen Keyes wrote: > > I agree with those who see the majority of 'point & shoot' cameras as being dumbed down. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jay Turberville > To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:02:56 PM > Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 > > > > >Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) > > Maybe not. But please point toward a more promising one. > Subject: Re: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Lehmen Keyes <leekeyes AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:56:52 -0700 (PDT) I agree with those who see the majority of 'point & shoot' cameras as being dumbed down. I like the old Sony's with the Zeiss lens (my DSC-W1 with the vario tessar lens is still pulling yeoman's duty). I recently bought a DSC-V1 with vario sonnar lens and was disapointed that I couldn't get rid of the vignetting. Maybe someone could compile a list of cameras and whether the lens movement was an inny or an outy. Or at least have the major reviewers provide this nugget for those who can't physically access the cameras prior to purchase. Idle thoughts... ________________________________ From: Jay Turberville To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:02:56 PM Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 >Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) Maybe not. But please point toward a more promising one. Subject: perhaps Swarovski has upgraded the ATS mounting foot to metal From: SiriusGuy AT aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:16:25 EDT I appreciate that Eagle-eyed and no doubt accurate report that now, at least for the ATS80HD, the mounting foot is now METAL. <> Perhaps Clay Taylor will be able to advise if and when an upgrade was made, and in particular, if it is possible to get a RETROFIT for an older scope. I would very much like to get that done for my ATS65HD if it is at all possible. I recently upgraded the tripod I use to a Bogen 055 series, in the interest of mounting security and safety, not to mention getting a fluid head. Regardless, the filter mounting thread on my Nikon 35/1.8 DX is still...plastic. Alan Birnbaum Fresno **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377075x1201454393/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) Subject: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: "Jay Turberville" <jay AT studio522.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:02:56 -0000 > I believe that Jeff was making the point that most Point and Shoot cameras do not have threads to mount the current design of tube adapters. Acceptance of an adapter that takes advantage of cameras without lens threads would most certainly expand the posts on this listserve. Not as much as you might think since many of the cameras that don't have threads are the cameras that are often missing options that serious digiscopers want. Further, as Len pointed out, a well designed tubular adapter typically allows very close approach of the camera front element to the eye lens of the scope. And what he has left out is that the camera based adapters have traditionally been heavier, bulkier, often more expensive as well as more difficult to align consistently and reliably. That said, they can be a good solution depending on your preferences and camera choice. >Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) Maybe not. But please point toward a more promising one. Many of us in this group have tried many different cameras. There is a deep repository of knowledge and experience here. The conclusions and preferences arrived at by many of the experienced digiscopers here were not arrived at through happenstance. There have been LOTS of things tried. There is a reason that so many are interested in the G1 and GH1. That said, anybody who can show a better way is always welcome. Well, just about anybody is welcome anyway. Some of us just might not agree with what is said is all. But the key here is to "show" a better way. Theories that don't jibe with the collective experience are not likely to be persuasive. Demonstrations of better methods and the pictures that prove the methods better are very persuasive. As for me, I do not think that the use of camera body based adapters is going to unleash the potential of hundreds of better digiscoping cameras. The simple fact is that there aren't that many good compact cameras made these days. Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Subject: Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters From: Roger Isaacs <Roger.Isaacs AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:50 -0600 regarding the red dot sight: I'm using a similar model. But I have it mounted to swivel that attaches to the flash shoe. google on "manfrotto 482lcd micro ball head with flash shoe mount" for an example, but I'm using a cheaper smaller swivel which I don't see online right now. This arrangement works fairly well. Since it attaches to the camera it will add some weight stress on the lense (assuming no balance bar). Because the sight is attached to the camera, minor changes in camera rotation relative to the scope change the sight alignment. With all such arrangements, parallax is an issue: because the sight is far above the scope, the red dot will be above/below the target depending on distance to the bird. Typically I just realign the sight using the swivel when setting up at a location. I tried a televue qwik point_t red dot finder (red dot sight for $24 USD) but found that it was not always bright enough to be useable when locating birds in the bright sky. thanks, Roger On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Mike Grant wrote: > > > Bruce, > > I think you have a real opportunity to move digiscoping into the national > spotlight.  Just add a satellite uplink dish so your photos can post > immediately and then go do a little digiscoping by a sensitive military > installation or nuclear power plant.  ;-) > > On a serious note, does the red dot get knocked out of alignment with your > scope frequently? > > Mike Grant > Chesterfield, MO > > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Bruce deGraaf wrote: > > From: Bruce deGraaf > Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with > Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters > To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 2:14 AM > > I took the plunge and bought the Pentax f/2.8 pancake lens and the the Borg > adapters recommended by Roy Halpin from www.astrohutech. com plus a 49mm to > 52mm step-up ring for interfacing to the DCA.  Although it costs about $300 > for the lens and $200 for the adapters; it works like a charm once you > "lock" the aperture on the lens to wide open.  Here's the list of the > catalog part numbers and description taken from Roy's earlier post.  I > placed my order by phone. > > 005011    Micro 4/3 adapter > 007000    35mm camera mount > 007901    M60 to M57/60 adapter for Vixen > PK-M57  Pentax K Lens adapter converting to M57 > > Putting on the lens and adapters is easy since there is really only one way > they will interconnect.  However, once I did so, I discovered that the lens > was always at its smallest aperture opening of f/22.  There's no aperture > ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by > inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control > lever rides in.  Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine > (something you should seriously consider once you start this type of hobby); > I used a similar piece of plastic cut to size.  Once you do this, you > basically have a f/2.8 lens, however, the amount of light will be governed > by your spotting scope.  Once you put it on your camera, you have to turn-on > the "shoot without lens" setting. > > This lens combo works with absolutely no vignetting with the Swarovski > 20-60x eyepiece.  I also tried it on a friend's Kowa 824 scoping scope with > its 20-60x eyepiece and the Kowa version of the DCA, again with absolutely > no vignetting thoughout its zoom range.  The Kowa version of the DCA allows > easy access to the zoom ring, unlike the Swarovski DCA, making zoom > adjustments much easier.  I also added a Red Dot scope to my setup to speed > my time getting on the birds.  I used the Really Right Stuff B91-B Flash > Bracket (that I had previously purchased for flash use) and PhotoSolve Rifle > Scope Mount to mount a Tasco BKRD42 Red Dot Scope to the Arca Swiss style > lens plate that I use on my scope (Really Right Stuff MPR-192).  Here's a > link to a photograph of my updated setup including a list of components: > > http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p309208295/ e1ddaa165 -- Note: The full > sized image is downloadable by moving your cursor over the photo and > clicking on the Download Original icon that appears > > I used the setup on two birding trips last Friday and Saturday.  On Friday, > I went to a Heronry in North Andover, Massachusetts, and then at an Eagle > nest in Northern Worcester County.  The Heronry is quite a spectacle with 95 > nests, 92 of which had young.  Photography was challenging due to an east > facing access resulting in severe back-lighting under clouded skies.  Plus > the closest nests were well over 500 feet away. > > We had better luck at the Eagle nest.  After driving there as rain > threatened and the skies darkened, we decided to hike in to see the nest > even though it started to spinkle.  As luck ould have it, the skies cleared > shortly after we setup the equipment.  The Eagle nest is roughly 250 feet > from where we stood. > > On Saturday, I tried out the combo at the Heronry at Jewett Road in > Sterling, Massachusetts, where I had previously taken photos of Great Blue > Herons, a cooperative Green Heron and a Tree Swallow nest cavity.  The > nearest two nests are roughly 175 feet away while other nests at the back of > the swamp/pond are over 500 feet away.  On Saturday, the nearby Great Blue > Herons were fairly in active, however, I got some photos (well really tons > of photos) of a cooperative Green Heron that was fishing and then drying off > about 150 feet or so away from where I stood. > > How did the combo work?  Awesome!  The 40mm lens doubled the reach of that > of the 14-45mm kit lens (that only worked up to about 22mm without > vignetting) with the zoom adjusted to 30x on the eyepiece while providing > great results at 20x as well for wider view shots.  It also works well up to > about 45x, however once you get to 60x, the light really falls off > decreasing shutter speed and resulting in photos that just aren't that > sharp.  It doesn't vignet at 60x, but I really don't see any value in using > the combo above about 45x. > > The Red Dot scope is also a terrific addition to any digiscoping setup.  For > those unfamilar with these scopes, its basically a 1x (no magnification) > eyepiece that has a red or green dot that (once adjusted) shows you where > the scope is pointing -- it doesn't matter if your eye is in line with the > scope or not.  Just look for the red dot that seeming floats on your target, > allowing you to adjust your scope before you ever look into the scope > eyepiece or camera, when digiscoping.  Whether I'm photographing close birds > or far away ones, I just look through the scope with both eyes open so that > the Red Dot literally looks like its flowing in my normal field of view, and > then I move the scope so that the Red Dot is on my target.  With a Gimbal > head and the Red Dot scope, I can get on a new target bird, no matter how > near or far, in a matter of just a few seconds. > > I posted the photos in galleries on my website that can be seen via the > following links -- try the slideshow for best results.  To see shot > information and what camera was used, move your mouse over the picture and > click on the "i" that appears in the upper right hand corner. > > Herony in North Andover, Massachusetts (map) (Note: A few of these photos, > the distant group shots, were done with a Canon 1DM3 with 500mm f/4L plus > 1.4x Extender) > http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p919086133 > > Eagle Nest in Northern Worcester County, Massachusetts > http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p610939787 > > Heronry on Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts (map) > http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p655918059 > > > Bruce deGraaf > Shrewsbury, MA > > Subject: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: "gwapuffin" <gwapuffin AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:05:04 -0000 I believe that Jeff was making the point that most Point and Shoot cameras do not have threads to mount the current design of tube adapters. Acceptance of an adapter that takes advantage of cameras without lens threads would most certainly expand the posts on this listserve. Since mid March of this year there have been 271 posts to the listserve, a search for G1 turns up 205 of the 271 posts. Is this the only camera worth talking about, I doubt it. :-) Gerald White --- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com, Len Blumin wrote: > > Jeff- > The tubular adapter (e.g. Swrovski DCA and others) remains the adapter of > choice for many digi-scopers. You may not realize it, but the DCA does in > fact allow for inward and outward movement of the camera so that the camaera > lens gets closer or further from the eyepiece. from portrait to landscape. > Cheers, Len Blumin > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jeff Bouton wrote: > > In future years as the once common tubular adapters are replaced by these > > new (more inclusive & versatile) adapters, I think we will realize that: > > A) there are actually more than only 2 point & shoot cameras that are good > > for digiscoping (all of a sudden the field goes from 2 to hundreds) :)> > Jeff Bouton > > Product Specialist - Birder / Naturalist Markets > > Leica Sport Optics, USA > > jbouton2 AT ... > Subject: Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters From: Bruce deGraaf <brucedegraaf AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:46:17 -0700 (PDT) I stow the Red Dot scope by loosening the flash bracket and rotating it 90 degrees forward so that its back edge is below the top of the flash bracket. This forces me to realign it in the vertical axis when I set it up for the next shoot. This is actually pretty easy to do. I just focus the scope on anything in the range in which I intend to shoot, then lock the tripod head and then loosen the head on the flash bracket and tip the Red Dot scope to the spot I'm looking at through the scope. There is a little play in the horizontal direction between the Photo solve rifle adapter and the flash bracket. So I aligned the horizontal adjustment screws on the Red Dot so that when it is rotated counter clockwise as far as possible within the foot on the flash bracket, its on target -- this eliminates the need make any further horizontal alignments, just check it during the initial setup and if I move to a different spot. The initial setup, using for the duration of the outing, is well worth the few minutes required. Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA ________________________________ From: Mike Grant To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:58:47 PM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters Bruce, I think you have a real opportunity to move digiscoping into the national spotlight. Just add a satellite uplink dish so your photos can post immediately and then go do a little digiscoping by a sensitive military installation or nuclear power plant. ;-) On a serious note, does the red dot get knocked out of alignment with your scope frequently? Mike Grant Chesterfield, MO --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Bruce deGraaf wrote: >From: Bruce deGraaf >Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters >To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com >Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 2:14 AM > > >I took the plunge and bought the Pentax f/2.8 pancake lens and the the Borg adapters recommended by Roy Halpin from www.astrohutech. com plus a 49mm to 52mm step-up ring for interfacing to the DCA. Although it costs about $300 for the lens and $200 for the adapters; it works like a charm once you "lock" the aperture on the lens to wide open. Here's the list of the catalog part numbers and description taken from Roy's earlier post. I placed my order by phone. > >005011 Micro 4/3 adapter >>>007000 35mm camera mount >>>007901 M60 to M57/60 adapter for Vixen >>>PK-M57 Pentax K Lens adapter converting to M57Putting on the lens and adapters is easy since there is really only one way they will interconnect. However, once I did so, I discovered that the lens was always at its smallest aperture opening of f/22. There's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control lever rides in. Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine (something you should seriously consider once you start this type of hobby); I used a similar piece of > plastic cut to size. Once you do this, you basically have a f/2.8 lens, however, the amount of light will be governed by your spotting scope. Once you put it on your camera, you have to turn-on the "shoot without lens" setting. > >This lens combo works with absolutely no vignetting with the Swarovski 20-60x eyepiece. I also tried it on a friend's Kowa 824 scoping scope with its 20-60x eyepiece and the Kowa version of the DCA, again with absolutely no vignetting thoughout its zoom range. The Kowa version of the DCA allows easy access to the zoom ring, unlike the Swarovski DCA, making zoom adjustments much easier. I also added a Red Dot scope to my setup to speed my time getting on the birds. I used the Really Right Stuff B91-B Flash Bracket (that I had previously purchased for flash use) and PhotoSolve Rifle Scope Mount to mount a Tasco BKRD42 Red Dot Scope to the Arca Swiss style lens plate that I use on my scope > (Really Right Stuff MPR-192). Here's a link to a photograph of my updated setup including a list of components: > >http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p309208295/ e1ddaa165 -- Note: The full sized image is downloadable by moving your cursor over the photo and clicking on the Download Original icon that appears > >I used the setup on two birding trips last Friday and Saturday. On Friday, I went to a Heronry in North Andover, Massachusetts, and then at an Eagle nest in Northern Worcester County. The Heronry is quite a spectacle with 95 nests, 92 of which had young. Photography was challenging due to an east facing access resulting in severe back-lighting under clouded skies. Plus the closest nests were well over 500 feet away. > >We had better luck at the Eagle nest. After driving there as rain threatened and > the skies darkened, we decided to hike in to see the nest even though it started to spinkle. As luck ould have it, the skies cleared shortly after we setup the equipment. The Eagle nest is roughly 250 feet from where we stood. > >On Saturday, I tried out the combo at the Heronry at Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts, where I had previously taken photos of Great Blue Herons, a cooperative Green Heron and a Tree Swallow nest cavity. The nearest two nests are roughly 175 feet away while other nests at the back of the swamp/pond are over 500 feet away. On Saturday, the nearby Great Blue Herons were fairly in active, however, I got some photos (well really tons of photos) of a cooperative Green Heron that was fishing and then drying off about 150 feet or so away from where I stood. > >How did the combo work? Awesome! The 40mm lens doubled the reach of that of the 14-45mm kit lens (that only worked up to about > 22mm without vignetting) with the zoom adjusted to 30x on the eyepiece while providing great results at 20x as well for wider view shots. It also works well up to about 45x, however once you get to 60x, the light really falls off decreasing shutter speed and resulting in photos that just aren't that sharp. It doesn't vignet at 60x, but I really don't see any value in using the combo above about 45x. > >The Red Dot scope is also a terrific addition to any digiscoping setup. For those unfamilar with these scopes, its basically a 1x (no magnification) eyepiece that has a red or green dot that (once adjusted) shows you where the scope is pointing -- it doesn't matter if your eye is in line with the scope or not. Just look for the red dot that seeming floats on your target, allowing you to adjust your scope before you ever look into the scope eyepiece or camera, when digiscoping. Whether I'm photographing close birds > or far away ones, I just look through the scope with both eyes open so that the Red Dot literally looks like its flowing in my normal field of view, and then I move the scope so that the Red Dot is on my target. With a Gimbal head and the Red Dot scope, I can get on a new target bird, no matter how near or far, in a matter of just a few seconds. > >I posted the photos in galleries on my website that can be seen via the following links -- try the slideshow for best results. To see shot information and what camera was used, move your mouse over the picture and click on the "i" that appears in the upper right hand corner. > >Herony in North Andover, Massachusetts (map) (Note: A few of these photos, the distant group > shots, were done with a Canon 1DM3 with 500mm f/4L plus 1.4x Extender) >http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p919086133 > >Eagle Nest in Northern Worcester County, Massachusetts >http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p610939787 > >Heronry on Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts (map) >http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p655918059 > > >Bruce deGraaf >Shrewsbury, > MA > > Subject: Re: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Len Blumin <Len.blumin AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:20:28 -0700 Jeff- The tubular adapter (e.g. Swrovski DCA and others) remains the adapter of choice for many digi-scopers. You may not realize it, but the DCA does in fact allow for inward and outward movement of the camera so that the camaera lens gets closer or further from the eyepiece. Simple refinement of the tubular adapter design by the manufacturer would allow even more movement along the axis of view. I have found it best to readjust the camera position in or out each time I change the zoom, in order to avoid vignette, including the "soft vignette" or dark central shadow when the camera is too close to the eyepiece. For general birding, when you are carrying the scope hither and yon in the field, the tubular adapter rules the roost. Quick, simple, reliable, and easy to change from portrait to landscape. Cheers, Len Blumin On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Jeff Bouton wrote: > > > All, > > As promised I've added an additional blog post to my "How to" digiscope > series. > > This installment deals with proper techniques for lining up your camera, > including a section on how to determine the proper spacing between the > camera lens and the scope eyepiece and is given in simple terms with images > to demonstrate how coupling errs will be perceived on the camera viewfinder > or subsequent image. This is something not found in many (most?) digiscoping > descriptions due to the inherent biases introduced by the many early > digiscoping adapters that utilize filter thread rings. > > The screw threads here may keep the lenses 5-6 mm apart because of screw > threads, additional adapters, and reducers, preventing the lenses from ever > getting too close together (often they aren't even close enough for > maximum effectiveness). At any rate, this has led to a common misconception > that it is always best to get the two lenses as close as possible. When you > have 5 - 6 mm of stacked metal between the two lenses this may seem like the > case, but with nearly any of the more versatile adapters including all of > the many platform style adapters that use the 1/4" x 20 tripod thread on the > camera bottom this adjustment is incredibly important. > > In future years as the once common tubular adapters are replaced by these > new (more inclusive & versatile) adapters, I think we will realize that: > A) there are actually more than only 2 point & shoot cameras that are good > for digiscoping (all of a sudden the field goes from 2 to hundreds) :) and > B) this adjustment will become an important and regular consideration in > daily digiscoping. > > At any rate, for any wishing to read the post and see the images showing > many common coupling errs. Check the blog AT : > http://leicabirding.blogspot.com/ > > It is currently the most recent post but all of the digiscoping topics can > be found at the links on the R side of the page under the heading > "Digiscoping series" in future. Please feel free to ask questions and add > commentary in the comment field below the post. > > Happy digiscoping, > > Jeff Bouton > Product Specialist - Birder / Naturalist Markets > Leica Sport Optics, USA > jbouton2 AT earthlink.net > > > > -- Cheers, Len Blumin, Mill Valley, California len.blumin AT gmail.com Swaro 80 HD, 30X, DCA, CoolPix 8400 http://www.flickriver.com/photos/lenblumin/sets/72157614994688364/ Subject: Digiscoping basics - 2 From: Jeff Bouton <jbouton2 AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:59:00 -0700 (PDT) All,   As promised I've added an additional blog post to my "How to" digiscope series.   This installment deals with proper techniques for lining up your camera, including a section on how to determine the proper spacing between the camera lens and the scope eyepiece and is given in simple terms with images to demonstrate how coupling errs will be perceived on the camera viewfinder or subsequent image. This is something not found in many (most?) digiscoping descriptions due to the inherent biases introduced by the many early digiscoping adapters that utilize filter thread rings.   The screw threads here may keep the lenses 5-6 mm apart because of screw threads, additional adapters, and reducers, preventing the lenses from ever getting too close together (often they aren't even close enough for maximum effectiveness). At any rate, this has led to a common misconception that it is always best to get the two lenses as close as possible. When you have 5 - 6 mm of stacked metal between the two lenses this may seem like the case, but with nearly any of the more versatile adapters including all of the many platform style adapters that use the 1/4" x 20 tripod thread on the camera bottom this adjustment is incredibly important.   In future years as the once common tubular adapters are replaced by these new (more inclusive & versatile) adapters, I think we will realize that: A) there are actually more than only 2 point & shoot cameras that are good for digiscoping (all of a sudden the field goes from 2 to hundreds) :) and B) this adjustment will become an important and regular consideration in daily digiscoping.   At any rate, for any wishing to read the post and see the images showing many common coupling errs. Check the blog AT : http://leicabirding.blogspot.com/   It is currently the most recent post but all of the digiscoping topics can be found at the links on the R side of the page under the heading "Digiscoping series" in future. Please feel free to ask questions and add commentary in the comment field below the post.   Happy digiscoping,   Jeff Bouton Product Specialist - Birder / Naturalist Markets Leica Sport Optics, USA jbouton2 AT earthlink.net   Subject: Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters From: Mike Grant <mocurlew AT att.net> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Bruce,   I think you have a real opportunity to move digiscoping into the national spotlight.  Just add a satellite uplink dish so your photos can post immediately and then go do a little digiscoping by a sensitive military installation or nuclear power plant.  ;-)   On a serious note, does the red dot get knocked out of alignment with your scope frequently?   Mike Grant Chesterfield, MO --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Bruce deGraaf wrote: From: Bruce deGraaf Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 2:14 AM I took the plunge and bought the Pentax f/2.8 pancake lens and the the Borg adapters recommended by Roy Halpin from www.astrohutech. com plus a 49mm to 52mm step-up ring for interfacing to the DCA.  Although it costs about $300 for the lens and $200 for the adapters; it works like a charm once you "lock" the aperture on the lens to wide open.  Here's the list of the catalog part numbers and description taken from Roy's earlier post.  I placed my order by phone. 005011    Micro 4/3 adapter 007000    35mm camera mount 007901    M60 to M57/60 adapter for Vixen PK-M57  Pentax K Lens adapter converting to M57Putting on the lens and adapters is easy since there is really only one way they will interconnect.  However, once I did so, I discovered that the lens was always at its smallest aperture opening of f/22.  There's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control lever rides in.  Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine (something you should seriously consider once you start this type of hobby); I used a similar piece of plastic cut to size.  Once you do this, you basically have a f/2.8 lens, however, the amount of light will be governed by your spotting scope.  Once you put it on your camera, you have to turn-on the "shoot without lens" setting. This lens combo works with absolutely no vignetting with the Swarovski 20-60x eyepiece.  I also tried it on a friend's Kowa 824 scoping scope with its 20-60x eyepiece and the Kowa version of the DCA, again with absolutely no vignetting thoughout its zoom range.  The Kowa version of the DCA allows easy access to the zoom ring, unlike the Swarovski DCA, making zoom adjustments much easier.  I also added a Red Dot scope to my setup to speed my time getting on the birds.  I used the Really Right Stuff B91-B Flash Bracket (that I had previously purchased for flash use) and PhotoSolve Rifle Scope Mount to mount a Tasco BKRD42 Red Dot Scope to the Arca Swiss style lens plate that I use on my scope (Really Right Stuff MPR-192).  Here's a link to a photograph of my updated setup including a list of components: http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p309208295/ e1ddaa165 -- Note: The full sized image is downloadable by moving your cursor over the photo and clicking on the Download Original icon that appears I used the setup on two birding trips last Friday and Saturday.  On Friday, I went to a Heronry in North Andover, Massachusetts, and then at an Eagle nest in Northern Worcester County.  The Heronry is quite a spectacle with 95 nests, 92 of which had young.  Photography was challenging due to an east facing access resulting in severe back-lighting under clouded skies.  Plus the closest nests were well over 500 feet away.  We had better luck at the Eagle nest.  After driving there as rain threatened and the skies darkened, we decided to hike in to see the nest even though it started to spinkle.  As luck ould have it, the skies cleared shortly after we setup the equipment.  The Eagle nest is roughly 250 feet from where we stood. On Saturday, I tried out the combo at the Heronry at Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts, where I had previously taken photos of Great Blue Herons, a cooperative Green Heron and a Tree Swallow nest cavity.  The nearest two nests are roughly 175 feet away while other nests at the back of the swamp/pond are over 500 feet away.  On Saturday, the nearby Great Blue Herons were fairly in active, however, I got some photos (well really tons of photos) of a cooperative Green Heron that was fishing and then drying off about 150 feet or so away from where I stood. How did the combo work?  Awesome!  The 40mm lens doubled the reach of that of the 14-45mm kit lens (that only worked up to about 22mm without vignetting) with the zoom adjusted to 30x on the eyepiece while providing great results at 20x as well for wider view shots.  It also works well up to about 45x, however once you get to 60x, the light really falls off decreasing shutter speed and resulting in photos that just aren't that sharp.  It doesn't vignet at 60x, but I really don't see any value in using the combo above about 45x.  The Red Dot scope is also a terrific addition to any digiscoping setup.  For those unfamilar with these scopes, its basically a 1x (no magnification) eyepiece that has a red or green dot that (once adjusted) shows you where the scope is pointing -- it doesn't matter if your eye is in line with the scope or not.  Just look for the red dot that seeming floats on your target, allowing you to adjust your scope before you ever look into the scope eyepiece or camera, when digiscoping.  Whether I'm photographing close birds or far away ones, I just look through the scope with both eyes open so that the Red Dot literally looks like its flowing in my normal field of view, and then I move the scope so that the Red Dot is on my target.  With a Gimbal head and the Red Dot scope, I can get on a new target bird, no matter how near or far, in a matter of just a few seconds. I posted the photos in galleries on my website that can be seen via the following links -- try the slideshow for best results.  To see shot information and what camera was used, move your mouse over the picture and click on the "i" that appears in the upper right hand corner. Herony in North Andover, Massachusetts (map) (Note: A few of these photos, the distant group shots, were done with a Canon 1DM3 with 500mm f/4L plus 1.4x Extender) http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p919086133 Eagle Nest in Northern Worcester County, Massachusetts http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p610939787 Heronry on Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts (map) http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p655918059 Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA Subject: Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters From: "Tom Cuffe" <tblcuffe AT iol.ie> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:32:03 +0100 Bruce Thanks for the detail response. I have not got a Pentax lens but I have been toying with an idea which may or may not work. If it works will post here. ATB Tom Cuffe www.iol.ie/~birdsgalway ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce deGraaf To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Cc: Tom Cuffe Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters Tom, The technique of locking the aperture open should be the same on any Pentax lens since the camera controls the size. For use of the Pentax lenses with the G1 and the Borg series adapters, there is no such mechanism that couples this lever to the camera body. I don't think a photo is necessary since the lever and the solution is fairly obvious. If you have a Pentax lens, just look at the camera side of the lens before you install it in the body or on the corresponding adapter. There is only one lever present and and you can easily move it with your finger to open the aperture -- a spring keeps it in the closed (f/22) position when you release the lever. The slot that the lever slides in is about the width of a standard credit card. Write me back if you can't figure it out. One thing you should be aware of is that if you decide to use the G1 with the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 lens for standard, non-digisoping photography, it will focus on near items but not distant ones. I believe that this is because the distance between the lens and the sensor is greater than on a Pentax body, resulting in the Borg series adapters acting like an extension tube. This may also help it for use in digiscoping while limiting its general purpose use. Also, just because the pancake lens works for digiscoping, you should not assume other Pentax lenses will also work. Bruce deGraaf brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Tom Cuffe To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:45:23 AM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters Bruce Great setup and thanks for posting. Between yourself or Roy could you post a pic to explain plastic and apeture lock. 'there's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control lever rides in. Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine.' Would this work with any lens. ATB Tom Cuffe ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce deGraaf To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:14 AM Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters I took the plunge and bought the Pentax f/2.8 pancake lens and the the Borg adapters recommended by Roy Halpin from www.astrohutech. com plus a 49mm to 52mm step-up ring for interfacing to the DCA. Although it costs about $300 for the lens and $200 for the adapters; it works like a charm once you "lock" the aperture on the lens to wide open. Here's the list of the catalog part numbers and description taken from Roy's earlier post. I placed my order by phone. 005011 Micro 4/3 adapter 007000 35mm camera mount 007901 M60 to M57/60 adapter for Vixen PK-M57 Pentax K Lens adapter converting to M57 Putting on the lens and adapters is easy since there is really only one way they will interconnect. However, once I did so, I discovered that the lens was always at its smallest aperture opening of f/22. There's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control lever rides in. Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine (something you should seriously consider once you start this type of hobby); I used a similar piece of plastic cut to size. Once you do this, you basically have a f/2.8 lens, however, the amount of light will be governed by your spotting scope. Once you put it on your camera, you have to turn-on the "shoot without lens" setting. This lens combo works with absolutely no vignetting with the Swarovski 20-60x eyepiece. I also tried it on a friend's Kowa 824 scoping scope with its 20-60x eyepiece and the Kowa version of the DCA, again with absolutely no vignetting thoughout its zoom range. The Kowa version of the DCA allows easy access to the zoom ring, unlike the Swarovski DCA, making zoom adjustments much easier. I also added a Red Dot scope to my setup to speed my time getting on the birds. I used the Really Right Stuff B91-B Flash Bracket (that I had previously purchased for flash use) and PhotoSolve Rifle Scope Mount to mount a Tasco BKRD42 Red Dot Scope to the Arca Swiss style lens plate that I use on my scope (Really Right Stuff MPR-192). Here's a link to a photograph of my updated setup including a list of components: http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p309208295/ e1ddaa165 -- Note: The full sized image is downloadable by moving your cursor over the photo and clicking on the Download Original icon that appears I used the setup on two birding trips last Friday and Saturday. On Friday, I went to a Heronry in North Andover, Massachusetts, and then at an Eagle nest in Northern Worcester County. The Heronry is quite a spectacle with 95 nests, 92 of which had young. Photography was challenging due to an east facing access resulting in severe back-lighting under clouded skies. Plus the closest nests were well over 500 feet away. We had better luck at the Eagle nest. After driving there as rain threatened and the skies darkened, we decided to hike in to see the nest even though it started to spinkle. As luck ould have it, the skies cleared shortly after we setup the equipment. The Eagle nest is roughly 250 feet from where we stood. On Saturday, I tried out the combo at the Heronry at Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts, where I had previously taken photos of Great Blue Herons, a cooperative Green Heron and a Tree Swallow nest cavity. The nearest two nests are roughly 175 feet away while other nests at the back of the swamp/pond are over 500 feet away. On Saturday, the nearby Great Blue Herons were fairly in active, however, I got some photos (well really tons of photos) of a cooperative Green Heron that was fishing and then drying off about 150 feet or so away from where I stood. How did the combo work? Awesome! The 40mm lens doubled the reach of that of the 14-45mm kit lens (that only worked up to about 22mm without vignetting) with the zoom adjusted to 30x on the eyepiece while providing great results at 20x as well for wider view shots. It also works well up to about 45x, however once you get to 60x, the light really falls off decreasing shutter speed and resulting in photos that just aren't that sharp. It doesn't vignet at 60x, but I really don't see any value in using the combo above about 45x. The Red Dot scope is also a terrific addition to any digiscoping setup. For those unfamilar with these scopes, its basically a 1x (no magnification) eyepiece that has a red or green dot that (once adjusted) shows you where the scope is pointing -- it doesn't matter if your eye is in line with the scope or not. Just look for the red dot that seeming floats on your target, allowing you to adjust your scope before you ever look into the scope eyepiece or camera, when digiscoping. Whether I'm photographing close birds or far away ones, I just look through the scope with both eyes open so that the Red Dot literally looks like its flowing in my normal field of view, and then I move the scope so that the Red Dot is on my target. With a Gimbal head and the Red Dot scope, I can get on a new target bird, no matter how near or far, in a matter of just a few seconds. I posted the photos in galleries on my website that can be seen via the following links -- try the slideshow for best results. To see shot information and what camera was used, move your mouse over the picture and click on the "i" that appears in the upper right hand corner. Herony in North Andover, Massachusetts (map) (Note: A few of these photos, the distant group shots, were done with a Canon 1DM3 with 500mm f/4L plus 1.4x Extender) http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p919086133 Eagle Nest in Northern Worcester County, Massachusetts http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p610939787 Heronry on Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts (map) http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p655918059 Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.0/2209 - Release Date: 06/29/09 14:43:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.0/2210 - Release Date: 06/30/09 06:10:00 Subject: Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters From: Bruce deGraaf <brucedegraaf AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Tom, The technique of locking the aperture open should be the same on any Pentax lens since the camera controls the size. For use of the Pentax lenses with the G1 and the Borg series adapters, there is no such mechanism that couples this lever to the camera body. I don't think a photo is necessary since the lever and the solution is fairly obvious. If you have a Pentax lens, just look at the camera side of the lens before you install it in the body or on the corresponding adapter. There is only one lever present and and you can easily move it with your finger to open the aperture -- a spring keeps it in the closed (f/22) position when you release the lever. The slot that the lever slides in is about the width of a standard credit card. Write me back if you can't figure it out. One thing you should be aware of is that if you decide to use the G1 with the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 lens for standard, non-digisoping photography, it will focus on near items but not distant ones. I believe that this is because the distance between the lens and the sensor is greater than on a Pentax body, resulting in the Borg series adapters acting like an extension tube. This may also help it for use in digiscoping while limiting its general purpose use. Also, just because the pancake lens works for digiscoping, you should not assume other Pentax lenses will also work. Bruce deGraaf brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com ________________________________ From: Tom Cuffe To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:45:23 AM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters Bruce Great setup and thanks for posting. Between yourself or Roy could you post a pic to explain plastic and apeture lock. 'there's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control lever rides in. Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine.' Would this work with any lens. ATB Tom Cuffe ----- Original Message ----- >From: Bruce > deGraaf >To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com >Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:14 >AM >Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of > the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg > Adapters > > >I took the plunge and bought the Pentax f/2.8 pancake lens and the the > Borg adapters recommended by Roy > Halpin from www.astrohutech. com plus a 49mm to > 52mm step-up ring for interfacing to the DCA. Although it costs about > $300 for the lens and $200 for the adapters; it works like a charm once you > "lock" the aperture on the lens to wide open. Here's the list of > the catalog part numbers and description taken from Roy's earlier post. > I placed my order by phone. > >005011 Micro 4/3 >>> adapter >>>007000 35mm >>> camera mount >>>007901 M60 to M57/60 >>> adapter for Vixen >>>PK-M57 Pentax K Lens adapter converting to >>> M57Putting on the lens and adapters is easy > since there is really only one way they will interconnect. However, once > I did so, I discovered that the lens was always at its smallest aperture > opening of f/22. There's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you > will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in > the slot that the aperture control lever rides in. Roy Halpin told me a > cut up credit card works fine (something you should seriously consider once > you start this type of hobby); I used a similar piece of plastic cut to > size. Once you do this, you basically have a f/2.8 lens, however, the > amount of light will be governed by your spotting scope. Once you put it > on your camera, you have to turn-on the "shoot without lens" > setting. > >This lens combo works with absolutely no vignetting with the > Swarovski 20-60x eyepiece. I also tried it on a friend's Kowa 824 > scoping scope with its 20-60x eyepiece and the Kowa version of the DCA, again > with absolutely no vignetting thoughout its zoom range. The Kowa version > of the DCA allows easy access to the zoom ring, unlike the Swarovski DCA, > making zoom adjustments much easier. I also added a Red Dot scope to my > setup to speed my time getting on the birds. I used the Really Right > Stuff B91-B Flash Bracket (that I had previously purchased for flash use) and > PhotoSolve Rifle Scope Mount to mount a Tasco BKRD42 Red Dot Scope to the Arca > Swiss style lens plate that I use on my scope (Really Right Stuff > MPR-192). Here's a link to a photograph of my updated setup including a > list of components: > >http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p309208295/ e1ddaa165 > -- Note: The full sized image is downloadable by moving your cursor over the > photo and clicking on the Download Original icon that appears > >I used > the setup on two birding trips last Friday and Saturday. On Friday, I > went to a Heronry in North Andover, Massachusetts, and then at an Eagle nest > in Northern Worcester County. The Heronry is quite a spectacle with 95 > nests, 92 of which had young. Photography was challenging due to an east > facing access resulting in severe back-lighting under clouded skies. > Plus the closest nests were well over 500 feet away. > >We had > better luck at the Eagle nest. After driving there as rain threatened > and the skies darkened, we decided to hike in to see the nest even though it > started to spinkle. As luck ould have it, the skies cleared shortly > after we setup the equipment. The Eagle nest is roughly 250 feet from > where we stood. > >On Saturday, I tried out the combo at the Heronry at > Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts, where I had previously taken photos of > Great Blue Herons, a cooperative Green Heron and a Tree Swallow nest > cavity. The nearest two nests are roughly 175 feet away while other > nests at the back of the swamp/pond are over 500 feet away. On Saturday, > the nearby Great Blue Herons were fairly in active, however, I got some photos > (well really tons of photos) of a cooperative Green Heron that was fishing and > then drying off about 150 feet or so away from where I stood. > >How did > the combo work? Awesome! The 40mm lens doubled the reach of that > of the 14-45mm kit lens (that only worked up to about 22mm without vignetting) > with the zoom adjusted to 30x on the eyepiece while providing great results at > 20x as well for wider view shots. It also works well up to about 45x, > however once you get to 60x, the light really falls off decreasing shutter > speed and resulting in photos that just aren't that sharp. It doesn't > vignet at 60x, but I really don't see any value in using the combo above about > 45x. > >The Red Dot scope is also a terrific addition to any > digiscoping setup. For those unfamilar with these scopes, its basically > a 1x (no magnification) eyepiece that has a red or green dot that (once > adjusted) shows you where the scope is pointing -- it doesn't matter if your > eye is in line with the scope or not. Just look for the red dot that > seeming floats on your target, allowing you to adjust your scope before you > ever look into the scope eyepiece or camera, when digiscoping. Whether > I'm photographing close birds or far away ones, I just look through the scope > with both eyes open so that the Red Dot literally looks like its flowing in my > normal field of view, and then I move the scope so that the Red Dot is on my > target. With a Gimbal head and the Red Dot scope, I can get on a new > target bird, no matter how near or far, in a matter of just a few > seconds. > >I posted the photos in galleries on my website that can be > seen via the following links -- try the slideshow for best results. To > see shot information and what camera was used, move your mouse over the > picture and click on the "i" that appears in the upper right hand > corner. > >Herony in North Andover, Massachusetts (map) > (Note: A few of these photos, the distant group shots, were done with a Canon > 1DM3 with 500mm f/4L plus 1.4x Extender) >http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p919086133 > >Eagle > Nest in Northern Worcester County, Massachusetts >http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p610939787 > >Heronry > on Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts (map) > >http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p655918059 > > >Bruce > deGraaf >Shrewsbury, MA > > ________________________________ > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - > www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.0/2209 - Release > Date: 06/29/09 14:43:00 > Subject: Re: hanging by a (plastic) thread From: Neil Fifer <neilfif11 AT yahoo.com.au> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:06:12 +1000 I'm sorry to hear about Roy's problem with the lens. I still get caught out myself with cameras falling off the scope while walking with the scope over the shoulder. I broke the kit zoom on the Olympus E420 this way and more recently the G1 fell off the DCA as I had not tightened it properly. Luckily I had a strap attached this time. To protect the plastic lens on the G1 I tell myself not to walk around with the camera attached to the adapter. I take it off and carry it around my neck. I still get lazy sometimes though. Neil. >Jeff Bouton, who represents Leica, arguably the most rugged and >damage-resistant sport optics on the market (no offense to Mr. >Taylor and Mr. Ingraham) warns: > ><(and off the eyepiece) is bound to create issues.>> > >Many SLR lenses have only PLASTIC filter mounting threads. The new >Nikon 35/1.8 DX might be very attractive for digiscoping, as all >focusing is internal, but the filter threads are plastic. As to why >Swarovski makes the mounting foot on their ATS series out of >plastic, rather than metal, well... > >Alan Birnbaum >Fresno CA > > >A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. >See >yours in just 2 easy steps! > > > Subject: Re: Digiscope bracket From: Neil Fifer <neilfif11 AT yahoo.com.au> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:56:25 +1000 Harry, This is one of the most economic solutions http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?ProdID=352 Neil >I have an older straight (not angled) Leica APO Televid 77mm Scope. >I also have a Canon aim and shoot camera. Is there an inexpensive >bracket that I can mount on my scope to use with this canon ? If so >where can I get it and what would it cost ? Thank you Harry > > Subject: Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters From: Roy Halpin <royhalpin AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Hi Bruce, Nothing broke on the 40mm pancake that I can see; it just pulled apart. This lens is well made. I could put it back together if I had the tools. I'm sending it to a guy in New England that will put it back together. Pentax service is not done at Pentax any longer. Pentax has downsized and all their repairs are from an off site sub contractor....I find them expensive. They were $100 more than others to replace the auto focus motor in my K10. Roy Halpin ________________________________ From: Bruce deGraaf To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:03:29 AM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters My pleasure ... hope it helps someone decide. Its definitely the best digiscoping camera that I have ever used by a long shot. By the way, how did your lens break? Was it the filter threads or did it break somewhere else? It doesn't seem very fragile to me. I don't need the focus ring so I could glue the pieces together to avoid the same thing that happened to you. What do you think? Thanks, Bruce ________________________________ From: Roy Halpin To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:53:35 PM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters Excellent Report....Thank you Roy Halpin ________________________________ From: Bruce deGraaf To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:14:44 PM Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters I took the plunge and bought the Pentax f/2.8 pancake lens and the the Borg adapters recommended by Roy Halpin from www.astrohutech. com plus a 49mm to 52mm step-up ring for interfacing to the DCA. Although it costs about $300 for the lens and $200 for the adapters; it works like a charm once you "lock" the aperture on the lens to wide open. Here's the list of the catalog part numbers and description taken from Roy's earlier post. I placed my order by phone. 005011 Micro 4/3 >> adapter >>007000 35mm camera mount >>007901 >> M60 to M57/60 adapter for Vixen >>PK-M57 Pentax K Lens adapter >> converting to M57Putting on the lens and adapters is easy since there is really only one way they will interconnect. However, once I did so, I discovered that the lens was always at its smallest aperture opening of f/22. There's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control lever rides in. Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine (something you should seriously consider once you start this type of hobby); I used a similar piece of plastic cut to size. Once you do this, you basically have a f/2.8 lens, however, the amount of light will be governed by your spotting scope. Once you put it on your camera, you have to turn-on the "shoot without lens" setting. This lens combo works with absolutely no vignetting with the Swarovski 20-60x eyepiece. I also tried it on a friend's Kowa 824 scoping scope with its 20-60x eyepiece and the Kowa version of the DCA, again with absolutely no vignetting thoughout its zoom range. The Kowa version of the DCA allows easy access to the zoom ring, unlike the Swarovski DCA, making zoom adjustments much easier. I also added a Red Dot scope to my setup to speed my time getting on the birds. I used the Really Right Stuff B91-B Flash Bracket (that I had previously purchased for flash use) and PhotoSolve Rifle Scope Mount to mount a Tasco BKRD42 Red Dot Scope to the Arca Swiss style lens plate that I use on my scope (Really Right Stuff MPR-192). Here's a link to a photograph of my updated setup including a list of components: http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p309208295/ e1ddaa165 -- Note: The full sized image is downloadable by moving your cursor over the photo and clicking on the Download Original icon that appears I used the setup on two birding trips last Friday and Saturday. On Friday, I went to a Heronry in North Andover, Massachusetts, and then at an Eagle nest in Northern Worcester County. The Heronry is quite a spectacle with 95 nests, 92 of which had young. Photography was challenging due to an east facing access resulting in severe back-lighting under clouded skies. Plus the closest nests were well over 500 feet away. We had better luck at the Eagle nest. After driving there as rain threatened and the skies darkened, we decided to hike in to see the nest even though it started to spinkle. As luck ould have it, the skies cleared shortly after we setup the equipment. The Eagle nest is roughly 250 feet from where we stood. On Saturday, I tried out the combo at the Heronry at Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts, where I had previously taken photos of Great Blue Herons, a cooperative Green Heron and a Tree Swallow nest cavity. The nearest two nests are roughly 175 feet away while other nests at the back of the swamp/pond are over 500 feet away. On Saturday, the nearby Great Blue Herons were fairly in active, however, I got some photos (well really tons of photos) of a cooperative Green Heron that was fishing and then drying off about 150 feet or so away from where I stood. How did the combo work? Awesome! The 40mm lens doubled the reach of that of the 14-45mm kit lens (that only worked up to about 22mm without vignetting) with the zoom adjusted to 30x on the eyepiece while providing great results at 20x as well for wider view shots. It also works well up to about 45x, however once you get to 60x, the light really falls off decreasing shutter speed and resulting in photos that just aren't that sharp. It doesn't vignet at 60x, but I really don't see any value in using the combo above about 45x. The Red Dot scope is also a terrific addition to any digiscoping setup. For those unfamilar with these scopes, its basically a 1x (no magnification) eyepiece that has a red or green dot that (once adjusted) shows you where the scope is pointing -- it doesn't matter if your eye is in line with the scope or not. Just look for the red dot that seeming floats on your target, allowing you to adjust your scope before you ever look into the scope eyepiece or camera, when digiscoping. Whether I'm photographing close birds or far away ones, I just look through the scope with both eyes open so that the Red Dot literally looks like its flowing in my normal field of view, and then I move the scope so that the Red Dot is on my target. With a Gimbal head and the Red Dot scope, I can get on a new target bird, no matter how near or far, in a matter of just a few seconds. I posted the photos in galleries on my website that can be seen via the following links -- try the slideshow for best results. To see shot information and what camera was used, move your mouse over the picture and click on the "i" that appears in the upper right hand corner. Herony in North Andover, Massachusetts (map) (Note: A few of these photos, the distant group shots, were done with a Canon 1DM3 with 500mm f/4L plus 1.4x Extender) http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p919086133 Eagle Nest in Northern Worcester County, Massachusetts http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p610939787 Heronry on Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts (map) http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p655918059 Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA Subject: Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters From: "Tom Cuffe" <tblcuffe AT iol.ie> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:45:23 +0100 Bruce Great setup and thanks for posting. Between yourself or Roy could you post a pic to explain plastic and apeture lock. 'there's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control lever rides in. Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine.' Would this work with any lens. ATB Tom Cuffe ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce deGraaf To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:14 AM Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters I took the plunge and bought the Pentax f/2.8 pancake lens and the the Borg adapters recommended by Roy Halpin from www.astrohutech.com plus a 49mm to 52mm step-up ring for interfacing to the DCA. Although it costs about $300 for the lens and $200 for the adapters; it works like a charm once you "lock" the aperture on the lens to wide open. Here's the list of the catalog part numbers and description taken from Roy's earlier post. I placed my order by phone. 005011 Micro 4/3 adapter 007000 35mm camera mount 007901 M60 to M57/60 adapter for Vixen PK-M57 Pentax K Lens adapter converting to M57 Putting on the lens and adapters is easy since there is really only one way they will interconnect. However, once I did so, I discovered that the lens was always at its smallest aperture opening of f/22. There's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control lever rides in. Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine (something you should seriously consider once you start this type of hobby); I used a similar piece of plastic cut to size. Once you do this, you basically have a f/2.8 lens, however, the amount of light will be governed by your spotting scope. Once you put it on your camera, you have to turn-on the "shoot without lens" setting. This lens combo works with absolutely no vignetting with the Swarovski 20-60x eyepiece. I also tried it on a friend's Kowa 824 scoping scope with its 20-60x eyepiece and the Kowa version of the DCA, again with absolutely no vignetting thoughout its zoom range. The Kowa version of the DCA allows easy access to the zoom ring, unlike the Swarovski DCA, making zoom adjustments much easier. I also added a Red Dot scope to my setup to speed my time getting on the birds. I used the Really Right Stuff B91-B Flash Bracket (that I had previously purchased for flash use) and PhotoSolve Rifle Scope Mount to mount a Tasco BKRD42 Red Dot Scope to the Arca Swiss style lens plate that I use on my scope (Really Right Stuff MPR-192). Here's a link to a photograph of my updated setup including a list of components: http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p309208295/e1ddaa165 -- Note: The full sized image is downloadable by moving your cursor over the photo and clicking on the Download Original icon that appears I used the setup on two birding trips last Friday and Saturday. On Friday, I went to a Heronry in North Andover, Massachusetts, and then at an Eagle nest in Northern Worcester County. The Heronry is quite a spectacle with 95 nests, 92 of which had young. Photography was challenging due to an east facing access resulting in severe back-lighting under clouded skies. Plus the closest nests were well over 500 feet away. We had better luck at the Eagle nest. After driving there as rain threatened and the skies darkened, we decided to hike in to see the nest even though it started to spinkle. As luck ould have it, the skies cleared shortly after we setup the equipment. The Eagle nest is roughly 250 feet from where we stood. On Saturday, I tried out the combo at the Heronry at Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts, where I had previously taken photos of Great Blue Herons, a cooperative Green Heron and a Tree Swallow nest cavity. The nearest two nests are roughly 175 feet away while other nests at the back of the swamp/pond are over 500 feet away. On Saturday, the nearby Great Blue Herons were fairly in active, however, I got some photos (well really tons of photos) of a cooperative Green Heron that was fishing and then drying off about 150 feet or so away from where I stood. How did the combo work? Awesome! The 40mm lens doubled the reach of that of the 14-45mm kit lens (that only worked up to about 22mm without vignetting) with the zoom adjusted to 30x on the eyepiece while providing great results at 20x as well for wider view shots. It also works well up to about 45x, however once you get to 60x, the light really falls off decreasing shutter speed and resulting in photos that just aren't that sharp. It doesn't vignet at 60x, but I really don't see any value in using the combo above about 45x. The Red Dot scope is also a terrific addition to any digiscoping setup. For those unfamilar with these scopes, its basically a 1x (no magnification) eyepiece that has a red or green dot that (once adjusted) shows you where the scope is pointing -- it doesn't matter if your eye is in line with the scope or not. Just look for the red dot that seeming floats on your target, allowing you to adjust your scope before you ever look into the scope eyepiece or camera, when digiscoping. Whether I'm photographing close birds or far away ones, I just look through the scope with both eyes open so that the Red Dot literally looks like its flowing in my normal field of view, and then I move the scope so that the Red Dot is on my target. With a Gimbal head and the Red Dot scope, I can get on a new target bird, no matter how near or far, in a matter of just a few seconds. I posted the photos in galleries on my website that can be seen via the following links -- try the slideshow for best results. To see shot information and what camera was used, move your mouse over the picture and click on the "i" that appears in the upper right hand corner. Herony in North Andover, Massachusetts (map) (Note: A few of these photos, the distant group shots, were done with a Canon 1DM3 with 500mm f/4L plus 1.4x Extender) http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p919086133 Eagle Nest in Northern Worcester County, Massachusetts http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p610939787 Heronry on Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts (map) http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p655918059 Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.0/2209 - Release Date: 06/29/09 14:43:00 Subject: Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters From: Bruce deGraaf <brucedegraaf AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:03:29 -0700 (PDT) My pleasure ... hope it helps someone decide. Its definitely the best digiscoping camera that I have ever used by a long shot. By the way, how did your lens break? Was it the filter threads or did it break somewhere else? It doesn't seem very fragile to me. I don't need the focus ring so I could glue the pieces together to avoid the same thing that happened to you. What do you think? Thanks, Bruce ________________________________ From: Roy Halpin To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:53:35 PM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters Excellent Report....Thank you Roy Halpin ________________________________ From: Bruce deGraaf To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:14:44 PM Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters I took the plunge and bought the Pentax f/2.8 pancake lens and the the Borg adapters recommended by Roy Halpin from www.astrohutech. com plus a 49mm to 52mm step-up ring for interfacing to the DCA. Although it costs about $300 for the lens and $200 for the adapters; it works like a charm once you "lock" the aperture on the lens to wide open. Here's the list of the catalog part numbers and description taken from Roy's earlier post. I placed my order by phone. 005011 Micro 4/3 >> adapter >>007000 35mm camera mount >>007901 >> M60 to M57/60 adapter for Vixen >>PK-M57 Pentax K Lens adapter >> converting to M57Putting on the lens and adapters is easy since there is really only one way they will interconnect. However, once I did so, I discovered that the lens was always at its smallest aperture opening of f/22. There's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control lever rides in. Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine (something you should seriously consider once you start this type of hobby); I used a similar piece of plastic cut to size. Once you do this, you basically have a f/2.8 lens, however, the amount of light will be governed by your spotting scope. Once you put it on your camera, you have to turn-on the "shoot without lens" setting. This lens combo works with absolutely no vignetting with the Swarovski 20-60x eyepiece. I also tried it on a friend's Kowa 824 scoping scope with its 20-60x eyepiece and the Kowa version of the DCA, again with absolutely no vignetting thoughout its zoom range. The Kowa version of the DCA allows easy access to the zoom ring, unlike the Swarovski DCA, making zoom adjustments much easier. I also added a Red Dot scope to my setup to speed my time getting on the birds. I used the Really Right Stuff B91-B Flash Bracket (that I had previously purchased for flash use) and PhotoSolve Rifle Scope Mount to mount a Tasco BKRD42 Red Dot Scope to the Arca Swiss style lens plate that I use on my scope (Really Right Stuff MPR-192). Here's a link to a photograph of my updated setup including a list of components: http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p309208295/ e1ddaa165 -- Note: The full sized image is downloadable by moving your cursor over the photo and clicking on the Download Original icon that appears I used the setup on two birding trips last Friday and Saturday. On Friday, I went to a Heronry in North Andover, Massachusetts, and then at an Eagle nest in Northern Worcester County. The Heronry is quite a spectacle with 95 nests, 92 of which had young. Photography was challenging due to an east facing access resulting in severe back-lighting under clouded skies. Plus the closest nests were well over 500 feet away. We had better luck at the Eagle nest. After driving there as rain threatened and the skies darkened, we decided to hike in to see the nest even though it started to spinkle. As luck ould have it, the skies cleared shortly after we setup the equipment. The Eagle nest is roughly 250 feet from where we stood. On Saturday, I tried out the combo at the Heronry at Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts, where I had previously taken photos of Great Blue Herons, a cooperative Green Heron and a Tree Swallow nest cavity. The nearest two nests are roughly 175 feet away while other nests at the back of the swamp/pond are over 500 feet away. On Saturday, the nearby Great Blue Herons were fairly in active, however, I got some photos (well really tons of photos) of a cooperative Green Heron that was fishing and then drying off about 150 feet or so away from where I stood. How did the combo work? Awesome! The 40mm lens doubled the reach of that of the 14-45mm kit lens (that only worked up to about 22mm without vignetting) with the zoom adjusted to 30x on the eyepiece while providing great results at 20x as well for wider view shots. It also works well up to about 45x, however once you get to 60x, the light really falls off decreasing shutter speed and resulting in photos that just aren't that sharp. It doesn't vignet at 60x, but I really don't see any value in using the combo above about 45x. The Red Dot scope is also a terrific addition to any digiscoping setup. For those unfamilar with these scopes, its basically a 1x (no magnification) eyepiece that has a red or green dot that (once adjusted) shows you where the scope is pointing -- it doesn't matter if your eye is in line with the scope or not. Just look for the red dot that seeming floats on your target, allowing you to adjust your scope before you ever look into the scope eyepiece or camera, when digiscoping. Whether I'm photographing close birds or far away ones, I just look through the scope with both eyes open so that the Red Dot literally looks like its flowing in my normal field of view, and then I move the scope so that the Red Dot is on my target. With a Gimbal head and the Red Dot scope, I can get on a new target bird, no matter how near or far, in a matter of just a few seconds. I posted the photos in galleries on my website that can be seen via the following links -- try the slideshow for best results. To see shot information and what camera was used, move your mouse over the picture and click on the "i" that appears in the upper right hand corner. Herony in North Andover, Massachusetts (map) (Note: A few of these photos, the distant group shots, were done with a Canon 1DM3 with 500mm f/4L plus 1.4x Extender) http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p919086133 Eagle Nest in Northern Worcester County, Massachusetts http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p610939787 Heronry on Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts (map) http://brucedegraaf .zenfolio. com/p655918059 Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA Subject: Re: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters From: Roy Halpin <royhalpin AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Excellent Report....Thank you Roy Halpin ________________________________ From: Bruce deGraaf To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:14:44 PM Subject: [digiscopingbirds] Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters I took the plunge and bought the Pentax f/2.8 pancake lens and the the Borg adapters recommended by Roy Halpin from www.astrohutech.com plus a 49mm to 52mm step-up ring for interfacing to the DCA. Although it costs about $300 for the lens and $200 for the adapters; it works like a charm once you "lock" the aperture on the lens to wide open. Here's the list of the catalog part numbers and description taken from Roy's earlier post. I placed my order by phone. 005011 Micro 4/3 >> adapter >>007000 35mm camera mount >>007901 >> M60 to M57/60 adapter for Vixen >>PK-M57 Pentax K Lens adapter >> converting to M57Putting on the lens and adapters is easy since there is really only one way they will interconnect. However, once I did so, I discovered that the lens was always at its smallest aperture opening of f/22. There's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control lever rides in. Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine (something you should seriously consider once you start this type of hobby); I used a similar piece of plastic cut to size. Once you do this, you basically have a f/2.8 lens, however, the amount of light will be governed by your spotting scope. Once you put it on your camera, you have to turn-on the "shoot without lens" setting. This lens combo works with absolutely no vignetting with the Swarovski 20-60x eyepiece. I also tried it on a friend's Kowa 824 scoping scope with its 20-60x eyepiece and the Kowa version of the DCA, again with absolutely no vignetting thoughout its zoom range. The Kowa version of the DCA allows easy access to the zoom ring, unlike the Swarovski DCA, making zoom adjustments much easier. I also added a Red Dot scope to my setup to speed my time getting on the birds. I used the Really Right Stuff B91-B Flash Bracket (that I had previously purchased for flash use) and PhotoSolve Rifle Scope Mount to mount a Tasco BKRD42 Red Dot Scope to the Arca Swiss style lens plate that I use on my scope (Really Right Stuff MPR-192). Here's a link to a photograph of my updated setup including a list of components: http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p309208295/e1ddaa165 -- Note: The full sized image is downloadable by moving your cursor over the photo and clicking on the Download Original icon that appears I used the setup on two birding trips last Friday and Saturday. On Friday, I went to a Heronry in North Andover, Massachusetts, and then at an Eagle nest in Northern Worcester County. The Heronry is quite a spectacle with 95 nests, 92 of which had young. Photography was challenging due to an east facing access resulting in severe back-lighting under clouded skies. Plus the closest nests were well over 500 feet away. We had better luck at the Eagle nest. After driving there as rain threatened and the skies darkened, we decided to hike in to see the nest even though it started to spinkle. As luck ould have it, the skies cleared shortly after we setup the equipment. The Eagle nest is roughly 250 feet from where we stood. On Saturday, I tried out the combo at the Heronry at Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts, where I had previously taken photos of Great Blue Herons, a cooperative Green Heron and a Tree Swallow nest cavity. The nearest two nests are roughly 175 feet away while other nests at the back of the swamp/pond are over 500 feet away. On Saturday, the nearby Great Blue Herons were fairly in active, however, I got some photos (well really tons of photos) of a cooperative Green Heron that was fishing and then drying off about 150 feet or so away from where I stood. How did the combo work? Awesome! The 40mm lens doubled the reach of that of the 14-45mm kit lens (that only worked up to about 22mm without vignetting) with the zoom adjusted to 30x on the eyepiece while providing great results at 20x as well for wider view shots. It also works well up to about 45x, however once you get to 60x, the light really falls off decreasing shutter speed and resulting in photos that just aren't that sharp. It doesn't vignet at 60x, but I really don't see any value in using the combo above about 45x. The Red Dot scope is also a terrific addition to any digiscoping setup. For those unfamilar with these scopes, its basically a 1x (no magnification) eyepiece that has a red or green dot that (once adjusted) shows you where the scope is pointing -- it doesn't matter if your eye is in line with the scope or not. Just look for the red dot that seeming floats on your target, allowing you to adjust your scope before you ever look into the scope eyepiece or camera, when digiscoping. Whether I'm photographing close birds or far away ones, I just look through the scope with both eyes open so that the Red Dot literally looks like its flowing in my normal field of view, and then I move the scope so that the Red Dot is on my target. With a Gimbal head and the Red Dot scope, I can get on a new target bird, no matter how near or far, in a matter of just a few seconds. I posted the photos in galleries on my website that can be seen via the following links -- try the slideshow for best results. To see shot information and what camera was used, move your mouse over the picture and click on the "i" that appears in the upper right hand corner. Herony in North Andover, Massachusetts (map) (Note: A few of these photos, the distant group shots, were done with a Canon 1DM3 with 500mm f/4L plus 1.4x Extender) http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p919086133 Eagle Nest in Northern Worcester County, Massachusetts http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p610939787 Heronry on Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts (map) http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p655918059 Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA Subject: Field Test of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with Pentax 40mm f/2.8 Pancake Lens and Borg Adapters From: Bruce deGraaf <brucedegraaf AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:14:44 -0700 (PDT) I took the plunge and bought the Pentax f/2.8 pancake lens and the the Borg adapters recommended by Roy Halpin from www.astrohutech.com plus a 49mm to 52mm step-up ring for interfacing to the DCA. Although it costs about $300 for the lens and $200 for the adapters; it works like a charm once you "lock" the aperture on the lens to wide open. Here's the list of the catalog part numbers and description taken from Roy's earlier post. I placed my order by phone. 005011 Micro 4/3 adapter 007000 35mm camera mount 007901 M60 to M57/60 adapter for Vixen PK-M57 Pentax K Lens adapter converting to M57Putting on the lens and adapters is easy since there is really only one way they will interconnect. However, once I did so, I discovered that the lens was always at its smallest aperture opening of f/22. There's no aperture ring for this digital lens so you will have to "lock" it to wide open by inserting a small piece of plastic in the slot that the aperture control lever rides in. Roy Halpin told me a cut up credit card works fine (something you should seriously consider once you start this type of hobby); I used a similar piece of plastic cut to size. Once you do this, you basically have a f/2.8 lens, however, the amount of light will be governed by your spotting scope. Once you put it on your camera, you have to turn-on the "shoot without lens" setting. This lens combo works with absolutely no vignetting with the Swarovski 20-60x eyepiece. I also tried it on a friend's Kowa 824 scoping scope with its 20-60x eyepiece and the Kowa version of the DCA, again with absolutely no vignetting thoughout its zoom range. The Kowa version of the DCA allows easy access to the zoom ring, unlike the Swarovski DCA, making zoom adjustments much easier. I also added a Red Dot scope to my setup to speed my time getting on the birds. I used the Really Right Stuff B91-B Flash Bracket (that I had previously purchased for flash use) and PhotoSolve Rifle Scope Mount to mount a Tasco BKRD42 Red Dot Scope to the Arca Swiss style lens plate that I use on my scope (Really Right Stuff MPR-192). Here's a link to a photograph of my updated setup including a list of components: http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p309208295/e1ddaa165 -- Note: The full sized image is downloadable by moving your cursor over the photo and clicking on the Download Original icon that appears I used the setup on two birding trips last Friday and Saturday. On Friday, I went to a Heronry in North Andover, Massachusetts, and then at an Eagle nest in Northern Worcester County. The Heronry is quite a spectacle with 95 nests, 92 of which had young. Photography was challenging due to an east facing access resulting in severe back-lighting under clouded skies. Plus the closest nests were well over 500 feet away. We had better luck at the Eagle nest. After driving there as rain threatened and the skies darkened, we decided to hike in to see the nest even though it started to spinkle. As luck ould have it, the skies cleared shortly after we setup the equipment. The Eagle nest is roughly 250 feet from where we stood. On Saturday, I tried out the combo at the Heronry at Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts, where I had previously taken photos of Great Blue Herons, a cooperative Green Heron and a Tree Swallow nest cavity. The nearest two nests are roughly 175 feet away while other nests at the back of the swamp/pond are over 500 feet away. On Saturday, the nearby Great Blue Herons were fairly in active, however, I got some photos (well really tons of photos) of a cooperative Green Heron that was fishing and then drying off about 150 feet or so away from where I stood. How did the combo work? Awesome! The 40mm lens doubled the reach of that of the 14-45mm kit lens (that only worked up to about 22mm without vignetting) with the zoom adjusted to 30x on the eyepiece while providing great results at 20x as well for wider view shots. It also works well up to about 45x, however once you get to 60x, the light really falls off decreasing shutter speed and resulting in photos that just aren't that sharp. It doesn't vignet at 60x, but I really don't see any value in using the combo above about 45x. The Red Dot scope is also a terrific addition to any digiscoping setup. For those unfamilar with these scopes, its basically a 1x (no magnification) eyepiece that has a red or green dot that (once adjusted) shows you where the scope is pointing -- it doesn't matter if your eye is in line with the scope or not. Just look for the red dot that seeming floats on your target, allowing you to adjust your scope before you ever look into the scope eyepiece or camera, when digiscoping. Whether I'm photographing close birds or far away ones, I just look through the scope with both eyes open so that the Red Dot literally looks like its flowing in my normal field of view, and then I move the scope so that the Red Dot is on my target. With a Gimbal head and the Red Dot scope, I can get on a new target bird, no matter how near or far, in a matter of just a few seconds. I posted the photos in galleries on my website that can be seen via the following links -- try the slideshow for best results. To see shot information and what camera was used, move your mouse over the picture and click on the "i" that appears in the upper right hand corner. Herony in North Andover, Massachusetts (map) (Note: A few of these photos, the distant group shots, were done with a Canon 1DM3 with 500mm f/4L plus 1.4x Extender) http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p919086133 Eagle Nest in Northern Worcester County, Massachusetts http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p610939787 Heronry on Jewett Road in Sterling, Massachusetts (map) http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p655918059 Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA Subject: Re: New to Digiscoping From: Neil Fifer <neilfif11 AT yahoo.com.au> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:22:19 +1000 Maryalis, The Canon SD750IS should do a good job if you can find a way to mount it. If you have an angled scope you can pad out the rubber eyecup with a cardboard tube so that the camera will fit snuggly in at the right distance from the eyepiece to minimise vignetting. Or you can get a universal type adapter for cameras without lens threads. http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?ProdID=352 Neil >I am new to this so if my questions have been asked and answered >before, sorry about that. > >I have several digital cameras. Every time I've traded up, I have >kept my old cameras. I cannot bear to part with them. I have a >Canon Digital Rebel, a Canon Powershot SD750 IS (which I carry >everywhere with me in my pocketbook), and a Fuji 3800 (my first >digital). Which camera would be best to hook up to my spotting >scope? It's a Kowa. > >I have been reading the messages and very few people use Canon. I >did see a recommendation for the Canon A590 buy I don't own that >one. Can I do it with what I have or do I have to get another >camera? Thanks. > >Maryalis in MA > Subject: Re: hanging by a (plastic) thread From: Bruce deGraaf <brucedegraaf AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:58:47 -0700 (PDT) My Swarovski ATS80HD mounting foot is metal ... perhaps Clay Taylor can address the foot issue. Nonetheless, being made of plastic doesn't necessarily make it weak or cheap, it depends on the type of plastic. In his post Roy said that "While carrying my gear to a site to photograph Purple Gallinues the 40mm lens broke into two pieces dropping my G1 to the ground." It seems he was carrying the scope with the camera attached, something that sounds risky to me for numerous reasons, particularly the stress of each footstep if the camera is on the end of a scope that's on one end of a tripod. I for one will continue to use the Pentax 40mm pancake with my G1 on my Swarovski DCA-zoom, but I'll continue to stow it in it bag when moving my setup. Although may be I'll add a layer of duct tape and/or glue the pieces together before they break since I don't need to focus using the lens, only the scope and my only reason for buying the lens was for digiscoping. If it breaks, I'll look for an adapter for my ancient (think 35 year old) Canon FD 50mm f/1.8 lens. It has the added benefit of manual control of the aperture and it is all metal and built like a tank. Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA ________________________________ From: "SiriusGuy AT aol.com" To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:23:55 PM Subject: [digiscopingbirds] hanging by a (plastic) thread Jeff Bouton, who represents Leica, arguably the most rugged and damage-resistant sport optics on the market (no offense to Mr. Taylor and Mr. Ingraham) warns: <> Many SLR lenses have only PLASTIC filter mounting threads. The new Nikon 35/1.8 DX might be very attractive for digiscoping, as all focusing is internal, but the filter threads are plastic. As to why Swarovski makes the mounting foot on their ATS series out of plastic, rather than metal, well... Alan Birnbaum Fresno CA ________________________________ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! Subject: Digiscope bracket From: "hmison" <hmison AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:02:35 -0000 I have an older straight (not angled) Leica APO Televid 77mm Scope. I also have a Canon aim and shoot camera. Is there an inexpensive bracket that I can mount on my scope to use with this canon ? If so where can I get it and what would it cost ? Thank you Harry Subject: New to Digiscoping From: "Maryalis Bushee" <mdb01746 AT msn.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:09:47 -0000 I am new to this so if my questions have been asked and answered before, sorry about that. I have several digital cameras. Every time I've traded up, I have kept my old cameras. I cannot bear to part with them. I have a Canon Digital Rebel, a Canon Powershot SD750 IS (which I carry everywhere with me in my pocketbook), and a Fuji 3800 (my first digital). Which camera would be best to hook up to my spotting scope? It's a Kowa. I have been reading the messages and very few people use Canon. I did see a recommendation for the Canon A590 buy I don't own that one. Can I do it with what I have or do I have to get another camera? Thanks. Maryalis in MA Subject: RE: hanging by a (plastic) thread From: "Mike McDowell" <mike AT birddigiscoper.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:31:49 -0500 Hi Alan, It's plastic? The one I'm looking at is metal. Mike M. Michael A. McDowell Eagle Optics (800) 289-1132 www.eagleoptics.com www.birddigiscoper.com _____ From: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SiriusGuy AT aol.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:24 PM To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [digiscopingbirds] hanging by a (plastic) thread Many SLR lenses have only PLASTIC filter mounting threads. The new Nikon 35/1.8 DX might be very attractive for digiscoping, as all focusing is internal, but the filter threads are plastic. As to why Swarovski makes the mounting foot on their ATS series out of plastic, rather than metal, well... Alan Birnbaum Fresno CA Subject: hanging by a (plastic) thread From: SiriusGuy AT aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:23:55 EDT Jeff Bouton, who represents Leica, arguably the most rugged and damage-resistant sport optics on the market (no offense to Mr. Taylor and Mr. Ingraham) warns: <> Many SLR lenses have only PLASTIC filter mounting threads. The new Nikon 35/1.8 DX might be very attractive for digiscoping, as all focusing is internal, but the filter threads are plastic. As to why Swarovski makes the mounting foot on their ATS series out of plastic, rather than metal, well... Alan Birnbaum Fresno CA **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823281x1201398699/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) Subject: Re: I tried From: "Lou & Wes" <martay6 AT bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:15:44 -0400 Ouch, Roy- Sorry to hear! Glad the results weren't any worse... Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: Roy Halpin To: digi scope Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 11:23 AM Subject: [digiscopingbirds] I tried Good Monday Morning, Over the weekend I wanted to take some photos using the G1, and the Pentax pancake 40mm lens. While carrying my gear to a site to photograph Purple Gallinues the 40mm lens broke into two pieces dropping my G1 to the ground, fortunately the safety line broke the fall of the camera and the G1 is woking just fine. I didn't get the chance to fill the request of our members for full sized photos of the combination of the Kowa 20-60x eyepiece, the Pentax 40mm DA pancake lense and the new Borg adapter. I did get photos of the G1, Borg adapter and the 100mm Pentax Macro lens....impressive. I will post some Macro shots using that combo on my Filckr site later today. The 40mm pancake is in for repair...I purchased two vintage Pentax 50mm standard lenses to try, I should receive them by the weekend. Roy Halpin Subject: Re: I tried From: Roy Halpin <royhalpin AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Hi Jeff, I would deserve a reprimand if I was not using my own equipment. I merely posted to warn others of my mistakes and through laziness I will probably mount my camera again the same way or at least I can find a lightweight and easy to use contraption that will support my DSLRs. The damage over the weekend was just the straw the broke the camel's back. I was hanging my much heavier Pentax K10 for many months from the same lens with no problems. The Pentax lens lasted a lot longer than the 3 Canon std 50s that I broke the same way. The lens is obviouly the weekest link. Roy Halpin ________________________________ From: Jeff Bouton To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:19:30 PM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] I tried Roy, I hate to belabor the point, but here again I think we can point to the fact that these lenses are not designed to be "structural" pieces supporting weight. When hung by the filter threads, the entire weight of the camera body is being supported by a lens engineered to only hold a glass filter weighing mere ounces/grams. For this reason, I'd again suggest utilizing an adapter that supports these larger, heavier DSLR type cameras by an adapter that supports the weight of the camera from below using the 1/4"x20 tripod thread mount. The popular method of hanging the weight of these units by lens (and off the eyepiece) is bound to create issues. Fortunately, you were smart enough to have a back-up to keep the camera from crash landing! Best, Jeff Bouton --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Roy Halpin wrote: >From: Roy Halpin >Subject: [digiscopingbirds] I tried >To: "digi scope" >Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 11:23 AM > > >Good Monday Morning, > >Over the weekend I wanted to take some photos using the G1, and the Pentax pancake 40mm lens. While carrying my gear to a site to photograph Purple Gallinues the 40mm lens broke into two pieces dropping my G1 to the ground, fortunately the safety line broke the fall of the camera and the G1 is woking just fine. I didn't get the chance to fill the request of our members for full sized photos of the combination of the Kowa 20-60x eyepiece, the Pentax 40mm DA pancake lense and the new Borg adapter. I did get photos of the G1, Borg adapter and the 100mm Pentax Macro lens....impressive. I will post some Macro shots using that combo on my Filckr site later today. > >The 40mm pancake is in for repair...I purchased two vintage Pentax 50mm standard lenses to try, I should receive them by the weekend. > >Roy Halpin > > Subject: Re: I tried From: Jeff Bouton <jbouton2 AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Roy,   I hate to belabor the point, but here again I think we can point to the fact that these lenses are not designed to be "structural" pieces supporting weight. When hung by the filter threads, the entire weight of the camera body is being supported by a lens engineered to only hold a glass filter weighing mere ounces/grams.   For this reason, I'd again suggest utilizing an adapter that supports these larger, heavier DSLR type cameras by an adapter that supports the weight of the camera from below using the 1/4"x20 tripod thread mount. The popular method of hanging the weight of these units by lens (and off the eyepiece) is bound to create issues. Fortunately, you were smart enough to have a back-up to keep the camera from crash landing!   Best,   Jeff Bouton   --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Roy Halpin wrote: From: Roy Halpin Subject: [digiscopingbirds] I tried To: "digi scope" Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 11:23 AM Good Monday Morning, Over the weekend I wanted to take some photos using the G1, and the Pentax pancake 40mm lens.  While carrying my gear to a site to photograph Purple Gallinues the 40mm lens broke into two pieces dropping my G1 to the ground, fortunately the safety line broke the fall of the camera and the G1 is woking just fine.  I didn't get the chance to fill the request of our members for full sized photos of the combination of the Kowa 20-60x eyepiece, the Pentax 40mm DA pancake lense and the new Borg adapter.  I did get photos of the G1, Borg adapter and the 100mm Pentax Macro lens....impressive.  I will post some Macro shots using that combo on my Filckr site later today. The 40mm pancake is in for repair...I purchased two vintage Pentax 50mm standard lenses to try, I should receive them by the weekend. Roy Halpin Subject: I tried From: Roy Halpin <royhalpin AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Good Monday Morning, Over the weekend I wanted to take some photos using the G1, and the Pentax pancake 40mm lens. While carrying my gear to a site to photograph Purple Gallinues the 40mm lens broke into two pieces dropping my G1 to the ground, fortunately the safety line broke the fall of the camera and the G1 is woking just fine. I didn't get the chance to fill the request of our members for full sized photos of the combination of the Kowa 20-60x eyepiece, the Pentax 40mm DA pancake lense and the new Borg adapter. I did get photos of the G1, Borg adapter and the 100mm Pentax Macro lens....impressive. I will post some Macro shots using that combo on my Filckr site later today. The 40mm pancake is in for repair...I purchased two vintage Pentax 50mm standard lenses to try, I should receive them by the weekend. Roy Halpin Subject: new introductory "how to" digiscope blog From: Jeff Bouton <jbouton2 AT yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:27:47 -0700 (PDT) All,   I've just added the first in a series of blog posts that will cover varying digiscoping topics. The very first (just posted today) on my new blog http://leicabirding.blogspot.com/2009/06/digiscoping-yet-another-review.html is meant as an introduction. In subsequent posts I will get more in-depth. So experienced digiscopers may not get a lot out of this first one, but as with everything, you have to begin somewhere. :)   These posts will cover my personal approach and of course will be with Leica equipment naturally. None-the-less, I welcome comments and questions as some of this may shape the next posts on the subject. I will tell you that even when I get truly "in-depth" my posts will be more about field craft and tips and tricks that have worked for me to get a good picture here and there. For those looking for lots of charts and graphs comparing theoretical properties of physics of varying systems, I'm afraid I'm bound to disappoint.   Warning this is not purely a digiscoping site, so there are also anecdotal birding stories included as well. However, nearly every image shown will be digiscoped. Again feel free to ask about any of the images if curious.   Best,   Jeff Bouton Leica Sport Optics, USA jbouton2 AT earthlink.net   PS - how many members are going to be at the British Bird Fair in August?... We can start with me and Stephen Ingraham and likely Clay I suppose. Anyone else? Subject: moving some of zbirding.info From: Stephen Ingraham <lightshedder AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:08:17 -0400 For anyone interested: some of the more generic and personal content of zbirding.info (basic digisoping instruction, links to my galleries, etc.) is moving to digibirder.lightshedder.com beginning with the first pieces today. zbirding.info is no more. Zeiss specific content will eventually move somewhere on zeiss.com. This, by the way, represents a change in web policy, not a change in my relationship with Zeiss. They are still signing my checks. -- Steve Ingraham lightshedder: www.lightshedder.com Point and Shoot Landscape: Pic of the Day Cloudy Days and Netbook Nights: cdnn.wordpress.com Subject: Re: Panasonic G1 and the Olympus 50mm Lens - Test Shots From: Bird <salbird AT sbcglobal.net> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:16:44 -0400 Pete didn't move a single feather! Amazing! :) On Jun 25, 2009, at 9:05 PM, Mike Grant wrote: > > Thanks Jay for the explanations. > > > > I did some testing today in the 105 degree heat index of St. Louis. > Pete, my parrot, sat amazingly still in the sun for all of it. He > was 100 feet from the digiscope. (My apologies to the metric > crowd.) I used my ‘vintage’ Swarovski AT 80mm HD and 20x60 > eyepiece. I also used the new 25x50. On the G1 I used both the kit > lens and the 50mm Olympus with the micro four thirds to four thirds > adapter from Panasonic. Hopefully the title of each will tell you > what they are. I shot all at the minimum magnification of the > eyepiece. I set the kit lens so that I got the least vignette. I > did nothing to post process, other than scale them down using the > Microsoft Power tool that enables resizing. The pictures with the > 20x60 were shot with the camera mounted using my home-made mount and > the Panasonic remote. The 25x50 pictures had to be hand held. > > > > Mike Grant > > Chesterfield, MO > > > > > RECENT ACTIVITY > 9 > New Members > Visit Your Group > Need traffic? > Drive customers > With search ads > on Yahoo! > Check out the > Y! Groups blog > Stay up to speed > on all things Groups! > Yahoo! Groups > Small Business Group > Improve your business > by community exchange > . > > <50mm w 20x60 at 20 P1000769 (Medium).JPG> P1000773 (Medium).JPG><50mm w > 25x50 P1000774 (Medium).JPG> Subject: RE: Panasonic G1 and the Olympus 50mm Lens - Test Shots From: "Mike Grant" <mocurlew AT att.net> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:05:47 -0500 Thanks Jay for the explanations. I did some testing today in the 105 degree heat index of St. Louis. Pete, my parrot, sat amazingly still in the sun for all of it. He was 100 feet from the digiscope. (My apologies to the metric crowd.) I used my 'vintage' Swarovski AT 80mm HD and 20x60 eyepiece. I also used the new 25x50. On the G1 I used both the kit lens and the 50mm Olympus with the micro four thirds to four thirds adapter from Panasonic. Hopefully the title of each will tell you what they are. I shot all at the minimum magnification of the eyepiece. I set the kit lens so that I got the least vignette. I did nothing to post process, other than scale them down using the Microsoft Power tool that enables resizing. The pictures with the 20x60 were shot with the camera mounted using my home-made mount and the Panasonic remote. The 25x50 pictures had to be hand held. Mike Grant Chesterfield, MO Subject: Re: Panasonic G1 and the Olympus 50mm Lens - clarification From: "Jay Turberville" <jay AT studio522.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:15:10 -0000 The G1 uses "contrast detect" AF which is different from the "phase detect" that was used on the DSLRs that the 50mm f/2 ZD was designed for. Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Subject: Re: Panasonic G1 and the Olympus 50mm Lens From: "Jay Turberville" <jay AT studio522.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:53:24 -0000 > A couple of questions, as I am a bit surprised. First, I did apply the > Panasonic firmware upgrades to both the G1 (now at 1.3) and the kit lens > (1.1). I did not find any updates for the Olympus lens nor the adapter. > The Olympus lens is a digital lens. I thought that it would auto focus, it > does not. The G1 actually tells me to switch to manual focus with the Oly > lens mounted. Is this because the Oly lens uses a different type of focus > system than the G1? It is because the G1 camera uses a different focus system (phase detect) than the cameras that the 50mm f/2 ZD was designed for. Some of the older lenses can be coerced into doing auto-focus with the newer contrast detect system, and some cannot. Panasonic and Olympus have compatibility charts. http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/connect/g1.html > Second, there seems to be no image stabilization, so now I guess I > understand that to be part of the lens, rather than part of the camera. Correct. With Panasonic, it is part of the lens. Olympus uses a sensor based approach. Each approach has pros and cons. > And the Oly lens is not internal focused, as the lens moves in and out as I > focus it. I don't think that that is a big deal as it seems I am getting > the best test pictures by having the lens at infinity and focusing with the > scope. There has been so many posts about 'pancake' lens that I was > thinking this was one of those. If you like to tinker a little bit, consider googling how to modify Konica Hexanon lens mounts for direct use on Four-thirds cameras. Or heck, there may be an adapter to do directly from Konica to micro-4/3s. The basic idea is to remove the stop down lever and add some degree of extra spacing to the lens mount. The flanges mate up correctly otherwise. Anyway, you can find 40mm f/1.8 manual focus Konica pancakes around for a pretty low price. I think between $30-60 is typical. These older manual lenses have very sturdy focus mechanisms since there is no AF. It has been a while since I looked at mine, but I think the filter ring does NOT turn when you focus the lens. Here's a link to one mounted directly to my E-300. http://www.jayandwanda.com/dpreview/E-300_Konica40_5250541.jpg Here's a link to the cheap and dirty mod that I made. Making some shims from brass is better, but it takes more time. Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Subject: Panasonic G1 and the Olympus 50mm Lens From: "Mike Grant" <mocurlew AT att.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:12:40 -0500 Because I have been trying to get reduce the vignetting with the kit lens and my old Swarovski AT 80mm with there 20x60 zoom, I ordered the Olympus 50mm four thirds digital lens and the Panasonic adapter. Those just arrived and I am very happy to report that the vignetting is gone at all eyepiece zoom levels. A couple of questions, as I am a bit surprised. First, I did apply the Panasonic firmware upgrades to both the G1 (now at 1.3) and the kit lens (1.1). I did not find any updates for the Olympus lens nor the adapter. The Olympus lens is a digital lens. I thought that it would auto focus, it does not. The G1 actually tells me to switch to manual focus with the Oly lens mounted. Is this because the Oly lens uses a different type of focus system than the G1? Second, there seems to be no image stabilization, so now I guess I understand that to be part of the lens, rather than part of the camera. And the Oly lens is not internal focused, as the lens moves in and out as I focus it. I don't think that that is a big deal as it seems I am getting the best test pictures by having the lens at infinity and focusing with the scope. There has been so many posts about 'pancake' lens that I was thinking this was one of those. Any comments? And now to make my home made mount fit this configuration. Mike Grant Chesterfield, MO mocurlew AT att.net Subject: Re:only one DCA zoom From: Dale Forbes <capepolly AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:54:52 +0200 Hi Michel, you might find that the UCA might be a better adapter for you. Just a thought. Dale http://alpinebirds.blogspot.com Subject: Re: only one DCA zoom From: Hervé MICHEL <michelhp AT orange.fr> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:36:15 +0200 in fact, there is no inside ring in the "old" DCA. Le 22 juin 09 à 16:10, Hervé MICHEL a écrit : > > > Hello, > > now that I have received another DCA zoom from Swarovski France, and > after speaking to them, I realize that there was a misunderstanding : > there is only one DCA zoom. > > So, this DCA zoom does not work with the Panasonic G1 and the new zoom > Swarovski 25x50W. There is always vigneting. But the 25x50W works > quite well with the (very) old DCA, even if it's hard to use the zoom. > > I think that it might be possible to use the DCA zoom by reducing the > length of the inside metal ring (which is shorter on the DCA) but it's > not possible to do that "at home". The DCA zoom should come closer to > the 25x50W zoom and vigneting may disappear. I will mesure the length > of the inside ring of the "old" DCA and that of the DCA zoom. > > The best seems to use the G1 with the DCA zoom and the 30xSW (or the > 45xSW). > > Hervé MICHEL > France > > > Subject: only one DCA zoom From: Hervé MICHEL <michelhp AT orange.fr> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:10:50 +0200 Hello, now that I have received another DCA zoom from Swarovski France, and after speaking to them, I realize that there was a misunderstanding : there is only one DCA zoom. So, this DCA zoom does not work with the Panasonic G1 and the new zoom Swarovski 25x50W. There is always vigneting. But the 25x50W works quite well with the (very) old DCA, even if it's hard to use the zoom. I think that it might be possible to use the DCA zoom by reducing the length of the inside metal ring (which is shorter on the DCA) but it's not possible to do that "at home". The DCA zoom should come closer to the 25x50W zoom and vigneting may disappear. I will mesure the length of the inside ring of the "old" DCA and that of the DCA zoom. The best seems to use the G1 with the DCA zoom and the 30xSW (or the 45xSW). Hervé MICHEL France Subject: Re: Optical Speed of Digiscoping System From: "smithhill20" <smithhill1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 01:47:26 -0000 I have just deleted my #22140 titled Optical Speed of Digiscoping System. I found that I had reversed my figures. When I re-did the test tonight I found that I had a 3.3x decrease in speed instead of a speed gain. Thanks for Jay Turberville for calling me on it. With my camera set at f-4 the resulting digiscoping system speed is a bit less than f-8. The camera was at 11.1mm focal length and 2X zoom. Sorry for the confusion. Gene Smith --- In digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com, "Jay Turberville" wrote: > > I think you should review your tests. What you are reporting is technically not possible and contradicts the experience of myself and others who have done similar tests and checks many times over the years. > > > www.jayandwanda.com > Subject: Re: Optical Speed of Digiscoping System From: "Jay Turberville" <jay AT studio522.com> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:14:18 -0000 I think you should review your tests. What you are reporting is technically not possible and contradicts the experience of myself and others who have done similar tests and checks many times over the years. Basically, an afocal adapter - which is what a digiscoping rig is - can't be any faster than the lens on the camera. It can only be as fast or slower. When you put a 13mm lens on your scope, the exit pupil is 1.73mm. To get an approximate 3700mm effective focal length with your rig, the camera's focal length has to be abut 17.5mm. If you have your rig perfectly set up, the exit pupil of the scope will coincide with the entrance pupil of your camera lens. That means that in the best case scenario, you have the speed equivalent of a 17.5mm lens with 1.73mm aperture. That gives you f/10. BTW, at f/10, you are well past the point where your images will be softer than what the camera can deliver with its 10Mp sensor due to diffraction alone. Much less any resolution loss due to optical aberrations. Double check your testing. Something surely went wrong. The ISO changed, the light change or something happened to mess up your results. Either that or you have magic optics. What is cool about digiscoping is that you can get a very high equivalent focal length at a pretty darned fast aperture. For instance, if you put a 30mm eyepiece on your scope (yielding 20x) and then shoot your camera at a 16mm focal length, you end up with something around 1500mm at f/4. Not bad. With your camera you can even go further. Using the same 30mm eyepiece and the camera at an 11.5mm focal length, you can dial in a 1050mm equivalence at f/2.8. The actual optical focal length is 230mm. Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Subject: Optical Speed of Digiscoping System From: "smithhill20" <smithhill1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:17:29 -0000 I have noticed that digiscoping crams an unexplained amount of light into the camera, compared with a telephoto lens exposure. I recently documented it. The unexpected light was found to be 57 times more than a similar diameter telephoto lens used in prime focus mode. That is 5 2/3 stops extra advantage for digiscoping! Here is what I did: I set up my 80mm by 600mm scope 45 feet from an illuminated $1.00 bill. I photographed it digiscope style at f-4 and 1/280 sec. This was 3700mm 35mm equivalent Focal length with the 13mm eyepiece. The same camera (Lumix LX3) then photographed the bill at a few inches away at f-4 and 1/80 second, using the same zoom. What is the Speed of the System? This answer is unbelievable. The regular camera shot from close up was f-4 at 1/80. The digiscope shot was 1/280 sec., same light. If we calculate an f-number to bring the speed of the digiscope shot down to 1/80 second, we see the f-number of the SYSTEM is about f-2.4. Remember that the scope is f-7.5 and the camera was set at f-4. If an f-2.4 telephoto lens of that power for a standard 1/2 frame camera were used the diameter would have to be 20 inches, and no doubt of many elements. Nasa Optics. I repeated the test with a 24mm eyepiece and got much less light gain. No doubt the efficiency is highly related to how well the digiscoping system is adjusted and how the eyepiece matches the camera. What is the speed of your camera/scope system? I would be interested in knowing. Equipment used: Orion 80 ED x 600 scope Hyperion 13mm eyepiece Lumix LX3 camera Gene Smith Subject: Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece From: "Hans Schick" <schick AT asca-berlin.de> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:13:44 +0200 (MEST) Len, I thank you for your clarifying remarks concerning the different Swarovski Digital Camera Adapters (DCA). I understand now that my disappointing results with the combination of the telescope Swarovski AT 80 HD, the eyepiece Swarovski 25-50xW and the camera Panasonic Lumix G1 are caused by the wrong DCA. I have to confess that I do not know, which DCA I bought in 2005 for the 20-60xW eyepiece of the older type (bought in 1997 together with the AT 80 HD). With your advices I will continue with my experiments. Bruce, many thanks also to you for your advices and comments. With great pleasure I saw your pictures obtained with your combo. Hans Schick schick AT asca-berlin.de www.ornithos.de ----- original Nachricht -------- Betreff: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece Gesendet: Do, 18. Jun 2009 Von: Len Blumin Hans and others: It is unfortunate that both users and vendors of the Swarovski DCA have been using such loose terminology over the years. I use the 30X WA Swarovski eyepiece (20 mm ER), and I find that the #49306 DCA works like a charm. The #49306 has often been referred to as the "non-zoom" DCA. I beleive that most users of the Swaro 20-60 zoom eyepice use the #49206 DCA, or the "Zoom DCA", which has quite a different structure. I don't know the Swarovski model.number for the "new DCA", but hopefully that information will be forthcoming. Using specific model numbers might help avoid confusion in the future. It was a little disappointing to learn that the new Swarovski 25-50 Zoom has ER of "only" 17mm, as 20mm would have better for digi-scoping. Hope to hear soon from Clay Taylor on these matters. To reduce the vignette it is critical to reduce the distance between the front lens element of the camera and the closest surface of the eyepiece. Removal of the eye cup helps. On the 30X this means not just the rubber portion, but unscrewing the whole thing. Lastly, althought this won't help with the G1, those using Nikon cameras with adapter tubes such as the UR-E15, can consider making the UR-E15 shorter by 3-4 mm. This is a bit tricky, but with care can be done in the home shop, or by a machinist. My somewhat crude method is described at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lenblumin/662968449/in/set-72157600546437358/ This works so well that I have to be careful to avoid "lens error" when zooming to higher magnification. -- Cheers, Len Blumin, Mill Valley, California len.blumin AT gmail.com Swaro 80 HD, 30X, DCA, CoolPix 8400 http://www.flickriver.com/photos/lenblumin/sets/72157614994688364/ Subject: re: digiscoping with the Panasonic Lumix G1 and kit lens From: "wwfc21" <wwfc21 AT yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:41:38 -0000 Hi all Just a couple of questions regarding digiscoping the G1 and the kit lens: 1. I have a Swarovski ATS80HD (this is the angled version), with a 20-60x zoom. Presumably I would need to get myself one of the fixed lenses (e.g. 30x), to avoid significant vignetting. 2. I currently have a simple SRB Griturn tube adaptor for my Sony P&S camera. However, I notice that it is mainly the Swarovski DCA adaptor that has been mentioned as being used to connect the G1 to the Swarovski. Would a simple (less expensive) SRB tube adaptor with 52mm thread do the trick, or is the DCA better at getting the lenses of the camera and scope eyepiece closer together? 3. Does the rubber eyecup of the scope eyepiece need to be removed before connecting the camera? 4. Finally (and perhaps most importantly), would you recommend this as a 'birders' camera? Primarily, I need to use my scope for birding, but I also want to improve my chances of obtaining better shots whilst out in the field. Is it an easy camera to mount quickly and small enough to carry around in the bag compartment of a scopack? Thanks, Jamie. Subject: Re: Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece From: Bruce deGraaf <brucedegraaf AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:49:13 -0700 (PDT) There's a solution to the vignetting problem with the Swarovski zoom eyepieces ... use the Pentax 40mm f/2.8 pancake lens and the Borg adapters recommended by Roy Halpin from www.astrohutech.com (plus a 49mm to 52mm step-up ring for interfacing to the DCA).  It will cost you about $300 for the lens and $200 for the adapters but it works like a charm once you "lock" the aperture on the lens to wide open (more on that in a later post).  Here's the list of the catalog part numbers and description taken from Roy's earlier post ... I placed my order by phone. 005011    Micro 4/3 adapter >>007000    35mm camera mount >>007901    M60 to M57/60 adapter for Vixen >>PK-M57  Pentax K Lens adapter converting to M57 When I first tried the combo on my Swarovski ATS80HD with the 30X eyepiece and DCA-zoom, it vignetted horribly, but then I noticed as I moved the camera away from the eyepiece the vignetting rapidly disappeared.  I substituted the DCA-zoom with the older DCA for fixed eyepieces and it worked like a charm -- you can even leave the rubber eyecup on the eyepiece with no impact on vignetting. Next I tried it with the 20-60X zoom eyepiece with the DCA-zoom and there is absolutely no vignetting across the entire zoom range.  When using the DCA-zoom, you need to make sure you fasten the DCA-zoom to the lowest part of the zoom grip and not below it.  You can then rotate the DCA-zoom to zoom in.  Although your camera will rotate as well in the process, its easy to loosen the screw on the camera portion of the DCA and rotate it.  Another tip is to remove the eyecup from the 20-60X eyepiece -- it doesn't matter with respect to vignetting but it makes it difficult to adjust the zoom because it can rub on the DCA as you zoom and make it difficult to turn. I'll be posting some photos in the next few days, weather permitting. For some recent digiscoping photos taken with the Swarovski ATS80HD, 30X eyepiece, DCA-zoom, and Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 with the 14-25mm kit lens, check-out these galleries on my website (these work best as slideshows): http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p206334409 -- Great Blue Heronry taken June 7, 2009 http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p588025184 -- Eagle Nest taken May 30, 2009 http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/p614105688 -- Great Blue Heronry taken May 25, 2009 Bruce deGraaf Shrewsbury, MA http://brucedegraaf.zenfolio.com/ ________________________________ From: Len Blumin To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:59:27 AM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece Hans and others: It is unfortunate that both users and vendors of the Swarovski DCA have been using such loose terminology over the years. I use the 30X WA Swarovski eyepiece (20 mm ER), and I find that the #49306 DCA works like a charm. The #49306 has often been referred to as the "non-zoom" DCA. I beleive that most users of the Swaro 20-60 zoom eyepice use the #49206 DCA, or the "Zoom DCA", which has quite a different structure. I don't know the Swarovski model.number for the "new DCA", but hopefully that information will be forthcoming. Using specific model numbers might help avoid confusion in the future. It was a little disappointing to learn that the new Swarovski 25-50 Zoom has ER of "only" 17mm, as 20mm would have better for digi-scoping. Hope to hear soon from Clay Taylor on these matters. To reduce the vignette it is critical to reduce the distance between the front lens element of the camera and the closest surface of the eyepiece. Removal of the eye cup helps. On the 30X this means not just the rubber portion, but unscrewing the whole thing. Lastly, althought this won't help with the G1, those using Nikon cameras with adapter tubes such as the UR-E15, can consider making the UR-E15 shorter by 3-4 mm. This is a bit tricky, but with care can be done in the home shop, or by a machinist. My somewhat crude method is described at: http://www.flickr. com/photos/ lenblumin/ 662968449/ in/set-721576005 46437358/ This works so well that I have to be careful to avoid "lens error" when zooming to higher magnification.  -- Cheers, Len Blumin, Mill Valley, California len.blumin AT gmail. com Swaro 80 HD, 30X, DCA, CoolPix 8400 http://www.flickriver.com/photos/lenblumin/sets/72157614994688364/ Subject: Re: Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece From: Len Blumin <Len.blumin AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:59:27 -0700 Hans and others: It is unfortunate that both users and vendors of the Swarovski DCA have been using such loose terminology over the years. I use the 30X WA Swarovski eyepiece (20 mm ER), and I find that the #49306 DCA works like a charm. The #49306 has often been referred to as the "non-zoom" DCA. I beleive that most users of the Swaro 20-60 zoom eyepice use the #49206 DCA, or the "Zoom DCA", which has quite a different structure. I don't know the Swarovski model.number for the "new DCA", but hopefully that information will be forthcoming. Using specific model numbers might help avoid confusion in the future. It was a little disappointing to learn that the new Swarovski 25-50 Zoom has ER of "only" 17mm, as 20mm would have better for digi-scoping. Hope to hear soon from Clay Taylor on these matters. To reduce the vignette it is critical to reduce the distance between the front lens element of the camera and the closest surface of the eyepiece. Removal of the eye cup helps. On the 30X this means not just the rubber portion, but unscrewing the whole thing. Lastly, althought this won't help with the G1, those using Nikon cameras with adapter tubes such as the UR-E15, can consider making the UR-E15 shorter by 3-4 mm. This is a bit tricky, but with care can be done in the home shop, or by a machinist. My somewhat crude method is described at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lenblumin/662968449/in/set-72157600546437358/ This works so well that I have to be careful to avoid "lens error" when zooming to higher magnification. -- Cheers, Len Blumin, Mill Valley, California len.blumin AT gmail.com Swaro 80 HD, 30X, DCA, CoolPix 8400 http://www.flickriver.com/photos/lenblumin/sets/72157614994688364/ Subject: Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece From: "Hans Schick" <schick AT asca-berlin.de> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:07:21 +0200 Hi Michel, thank you for your response. It is a good question wether I took off the eyecup before putting the DCA. The answer is that I remowed the rubber cap from the eyepiece, but there remains a rubber ring, which can not be removed. The 25x50 eyepiece was used as shown above. I do not know wether I can or have to remove still more parts. I am grateful for further advice Hans Schick schick AT asca-berlin.de www.ornithos.de ----- Original Message ----- From: Hervé MICHEL To: digiscopingbirds AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [digiscopingbirds] Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece Hi Hans, as I had mentionned before, I have discovered that there are two DCA zoom, the "new" and the "old". I had the old one and vigneting occurs with it. As I didn't get the "new" when I had the G1, I made my test with the very old DCA (not zoom) and it works. The new DCA zoom is a little shorter than the old so vigneting disappeared. The best you have to do is to go to your Swarovski shop. Have you taken off the eyecup before putting the DCA ? Hervé MICHEL Le 18 juin 09 à 10:10, Hans Schick a écrit : Hello, I am still experimenting with my digiscoping equipment and can not solve the problem of vignetting. I (try to) use a telescope Swarowsky AT 80 HD (old type, bought in 1997), a Swarowsky DCA (Digital Camera Adapter) with 52 mm thread (bought in Decembre 2005), a Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece (obtained yesterday), and a Panasonic Lumix G1 with the kit lens (14 - 45 mm). Regarding posts of Neil, Hervé Michel and others I assumed that this combination should work without vignetting (at least around 20 mm focal length of the Panasonic lens). But it does not work. I always have strong vignetting. This facts are very disappointing. What are the reasons for this failure. Has the body of the old Swarovsky telescope AT 80 HD an influence on the vignetting. Does the vignetting only disappear when I use the newer Swarovsky telelescopes or other eyepieces. My Swarowsky DCA (Digital Camera Adapter) with 52 mm thread was bought in Decembre 2005. I am nor aware that there exist an "old" and a "new DCA zoom" as Hervé Michel mentioned in one of his posts. Do I have the wrong DCA? I would be very grateful for explanations of my troubles. With best regards Hans Schick schick AT asca-berlin.de www.ornithos.de Subject: Re: Problems with vignetting - Panasonic Lumix G1 and Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece From: Hervé MICHEL <michelhp AT orange.fr> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:06:10 +0200 Hi Hans, as I had mentionned before, I have discovered that there are two DCA zoom, the "new" and the "old". I had the old one and vigneting occurs with it. As I didn't get the "new" when I had the G1, I made my test with the very old DCA (not zoom) and it works. The new DCA zoom is a little shorter than the old so vigneting disappeared. The best you have to do is to go to your Swarovski shop. Have you taken off the eyecup before putting the DCA ? Hervé MICHEL Le 18 juin 09 à 10:10, Hans Schick a écrit : > > > > Hello, > > I am still experimenting with my digiscoping equipment and can not > solve the problem of vignetting. > I (try to) use a telescope Swarowsky AT 80 HD (old type, bought in > 1997), a Swarowsky DCA (Digital Camera Adapter) with 52 mm thread > (bought in Decembre 2005), a Swarovski 25-50xW eyepiece (obtained > yesterday), and a Panasonic Lumix G1 with the kit lens (14 - 45 mm). > Regarding posts of Neil, Hervé Michel and others I assumed that this > combination should work without vignetting (at least around 20 mm > focal length of the Panasonic lens). But it does not work. I always > have strong vignetting. > This facts are very disappointing. What are the reasons for this > failure. Has the body of the old Swarovsky telescope AT 80 HD an > influence on the vignetting. Does the vignetting only disappear when > I use the newer Swarovsky telelescopes or other eyepieces. > My Swarowsky DCA (Digital Camera Adapter) with 52 mm thread was > bought in Decembre 2005. I am nor aware that there exist an "old" > and a "new DCA zoom" as Hervé Michel mentioned in one of his posts. > Do I have the wrong DCA? > I would be very grateful for explanations of my troubles. > > With best regards > > Hans Schick > schick AT asca-berlin.de > www.ornithos.de > > Subject: Re: Re: Celestron 52251 Ultima 80ED From: Rick Phillips <sunfish0501 AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:17:04 -0400 The newer Celestron Regal F-ED allows one to use any 1.25" astronomical eyepiece. Can use use these eyepieces on the Ultima series? Rick Phillips Kingsport, Tennessee On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:05 AM, jwjenks2001 wrote: > > > Hello Dave: I've got the Celestron Ultima 100 ED (spotting scope) and a > Televue 85 (telescope) I'm completely happy with my C100 ED. Ithe C100 has > T-ring threads on the body plus on the zoom eyepiece so camera attachment is > easy. I use a Canon 590is. great combo. minimal vinyetting (sic) at low > camera focal lenghts otherwise perfect combo. I won't sell either scope. The > TV-85 is crisper at the higher magnifications but the C100 does a great job > for me. It's kind of impossible to quantitate, but I get 10% better pictures > spending 300% more money with the TV85. > John > > > > Has anyone on this forum - or anywhere else - put the Celestron 52251 > Ultima 80ED scope through its paces vis-a-vis its potential for digiscoping? > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dave Graham > > East River, SD > > > > > Subject: Re: Celestron 52251 Ultima 80ED From: "jwjenks2001" <jwjenks AT netzero.net> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 04:05:37 -0000 Hello Dave: I've got the Celestron Ultima 100 ED (spotting scope) and a Televue 85 (telescope) I'm completely happy with my C100 ED. Ithe C100 has T-ring threads on the body plus on the zoom eyepiece so camera attachment is easy. I use a Canon 590is. great combo. minimal vinyetting (sic) at low camera focal lenghts otherwise perfect combo. I won't sell either scope. The TV-85 is crisper at the higher magnifications but the C100 does a great job for me. It's kind of impossible to quantitate, but I get 10% better pictures spending 300% more money with the TV85. John > Has anyone on this forum - or anywhere else - put the Celestron 52251 Ultima 80ED scope through its paces vis-a-vis its potential for digiscoping? > > Thanks, > > Dave Graham > East River, SD >