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5 Jul Re: Eskimo Curlew [] 5 Jul Re: Eskimo Curlew [Dick Newell ] 4 Jul Re: Eskimo Curlew [Richard Stern ] 4 Jul Eskimo Curlew: Damn few and they're not all deid! ["Norman D.van Swelm" ] 3 Jul Re: (Eskimo Curlew) Damn few and they're not all dead! ["Collinson, Dr Jon M." ] 3 Jul Re: (Eskimo Curlew) Damn few and they're not all dead! [Jerry Tangren ] 3 Jul Re: (Eskimo Curlew) Damn few and they're not all dead! [Jean Iron ] 3 Jul Re: Damn few and they're not all deid! [Peter Adriaens ] 2 Jul Damn few and they're not all deid! ["Norman D.van Swelm" ] 2 Jul Eskimo Curlew? [Ian Paulsen ] 2 Jul Change in Eye Color [Anand Arya ] 2 Jul Chincoteague NWR, VA dark-billed Great Egret - yes - 7/1/2008 [Phil Davis ] 1 Jul Hybrid Couch's x Eastern Kingbird [jkennedy366 ] 30 Jun Pale red-tailed hawk [Greg Neise ] 30 Jun Chincoteague Great Egret photos [Jim Hengeveld ] 29 Jun Question about Parus sp. in central Europe [Eric DeFonso ] 25 Jun Re: New Mexico Empidonax sp. Question [Harry LeGrand ] 23 Jun Re: Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast [Mark Stevenson ] 23 Jun Re: Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast [Joseph Morlan ] 23 Jun Re: Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast [Phil Davis ] 23 Jun BIRDWG01] Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast ["Ian A. McLaren" ] 22 Jun Re: New Mexico Empidonax sp. Question [Chris Benesh ] 22 Jun New Mexico Empidonax sp. Question [Matt Baumann ] 22 Jun Re: Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast [Mark Szantyr ] 22 Jun Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast [Mark Szantyr ] 22 Jun Re: Chincoteague Great Egret [Doug Pratt ] 22 Jun correct URLs for Chincoteague egret [] 22 Jun correct URLs for Chincoteague egret [] 22 Jun More on Chincoteague egret [] 20 Jun Panama skua ["kratter AT flmnh.ufl.edu" ] 20 Jun Swinhoe's Snipe and Siberian Chiffchaff [Harry Lehto ] 20 Jun Great Egret (Eurasian?), Chincoteague, Virginia [] 19 Jun Re: tern Id THANKS! [Brian Schmidt ] 19 Jun tern Id [Brian Schmidt ] 17 Jun Re: Unknown Bird - San Pedro River, Dudleyville, AZ [Kristie Nelson ] 17 Jun Re: Unknown Bird - San Pedro River, Dudleyville, AZ [Keith Corliss ] 14 Jun Re: Unknown Bird - San Pedro River, Dudleyville, AZ [] 14 Jun Unknown Bird - San Pedro River, Dudleyville, AZ [Matthew O'Brien ] 13 Jun Knots in 1st summer plumage ["Norman D.van Swelm" ] 12 Jun Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids [Floyd Hayes ] 12 Jun NM Gull-billed Tern pics [borealowl ] 12 Jun Fw: [BIRDWG01] Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. ["Norman D.van Swelm" ] 12 Jun Rufous-tailed Robin at Saint Paul Island [] 12 Jun Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. [Harry Lehto ] 12 Jun Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. ["Bruce H. Anderson" ] 11 Jun Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. ["Bruce H. Anderson" ] 11 Jun Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. [Mark Szantyr ] 11 Jun Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. [Alvaro Jaramillo ] 11 Jun Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. [] 11 Jun Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. [Alvaro Jaramillo ] 10 Jun Stills of Minnesota Mystery bird ["Alt, Mark" ] 10 Jun Re: Unkown Passerine in MN [David Sibley ] Subject: Re: Eskimo Curlew From: okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 12:17:11 +0100 Hi, My view is its most likely a Whimbrel...but could it be Hudsonian? It would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater! Curlew http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1138/1019680719_35a4bb0b3b.jpg?v=0 Whimbrel http://www.portlandbirdobs.org.uk/bp_whimbrel_12_150408_450.jpg Hudsonian Whimbrel http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1383/688839278_a63137723a.jpg?v=0 Regards Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Eskimo Curlew From: Dick Newell <dick.newell AT GOOGLEMAIL.COM> Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:11:18 +0100 On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Richard Stern wrote: > .... > DNA from a feather, excellent and unequivocal photographs, or independent > unequivocal sightings by more than one experienced observer, would have to > be analyzed to be acceptable. > DNA from a dropped feather is less likely to contain any useful DNA than a freshly plucked one. A better, easier to achieve, option is to collect droppings (and immediately put them in alcohol). This approach confirmed what many suspected of the Minsmere Curlew: that it was a Eurasian Curlew. Dick Cambridge, UK Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Eskimo Curlew From: Richard Stern <rbstern AT NS.SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 06:17:20 -0700 There is a detailed account of what would do very nicely for an Eskimo Curlew, by an experienced and believable single observer - including detailed field marks, and why he felt both Whimbrel and Little Curlew were ruled out, in Nova Scotia in Sept. 2006 - in an area, and habitat, where they once occurred in large numbers (Birders World, and reported to the Canadian Wildlife Service). The NS records committee has not yet grappled with that one. However I suspect that for a sighting as important as that, DNA from a feather, excellent and unequivocal photographs, or independent unequivocal sightings by more than one experienced observer, would have to be analyzed to be acceptable. Richard Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Eskimo Curlew: Damn few and they're not all deid! From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:56:36 +0200 Martin Collinson wrote: >I feel there's been (until you) no rebuttal of this Eskimo Curlew claim because many people thought it was not necessary.< Peter Adriaens wrote: >Next, you will probably come up with similar 'evidence' of a breeding population of Ivory-billed Woodpeckers in The Netherlands!< Guys! Believe me, I know how you feel. Had I known I was photographing an Eskimo Curlew my hands would have started to tremble indefinitely and I would not even have been able to take the poor quality photo's as Ron has described them so kindly. Fortunately I only saw a tiny brown curlew amidst a group of curlews which were harassed by our local Goshawk. Thank you Mr.Goshawk! This kind of encounters don't come cheep! I have been screening every group of curlews that crossed my path over the last thirty years or so and the only rarity I expected to come across one day was the Slender-billed Curlew as there have been quite a few observations in The Netherlands over the last hundred years or more. Guys, my advise to you is: take a brake. Relax, or come and visit the Oostvoorne beach, the Eskimo Curlew may still be there! Who knows? There is plenty of affordable accommodation, the food is excellent, the weather fine and you only have to check thousands of shy, moulting curlews. What better way of spending your time than mourning you've just missed an Eskimo Curlew? Back to th� bird! Jerry Tangren wrote: >I wouldn't worry about the plumage color, but that bill just looks funny for any bird. Any chance the photo was enhanced to bring out its shape?< Well Jerry, what you see is fragments of larger pictures cut out just bring out the bird from the larger group of curlews. Remember that the distance between me and the birds is about 70 meters or so. Jerry Tangren wrote: > I'd also like to believe. Whatever happened to the secret Canadian breeding > population of the late 20th century?< I couldn't possibly comment! Ron Pittaway wrote: >The poor quality photos show no > diagnostic characters of an Eskimo Curlew. Its size cannot be > properly evaluated. The wings linings appear gray not tawny. The bill > seems too heavy, too deep-based, too long, and too strongly decurved > for an Eskimo Curlew.< I could see the comment on size coming therefore we will include a picture on the site soon, taken in Naturalis i.e. the National Museum for Natural History in Leiden here in The Netherlands, of skins of a Curlew N.arquata found in Oostvoorne and a Little Curlew N.borealis . Little Curlew is smaller than Eskimo Curlew as you know but the three Eskimo Curlews in the museum are mounted specimens and in spite of much persuasion we couldn't get our friend the collection manager to stretch one of the Eskimo's a bit for the occassion. The colour and size of our bird leave only two species to choose from: Little and Eskimo. I think Eskimo is the one but I can assure you that the two in hand are surprisingly similar! David Sonneborn wrote: >I saw a Little Curlew in Alaska which was collected (so no doubt about the identity) and in the late 60"s I may have seen an Eskimo Curlew ( I still think I did although it was not a good date) in North Carolina. SO I must be an expert. The underwing of the Little Curlew was similar to that in your photos while the putative Eskimo Curlew put its wing up which was "cinnamon". So I vote for Little.< David, your vote will be taken seriously. We have taken pictures of the underwing of Little Curlew in Naturalis which will we will show soon. You can compare them with the pictures of Eskimo Curlew on the site of the Britisch Museum. My impression is that the contrast and colour do not differ much. Gyorgy Szimuly wrote: > Before this news rocks the World I have some comments... > I guess sides and underwing coloration is not as rufus/tawny as it > should be and the belly is quite white which is fine for Little Curlew. > Also the leg projection is not quite obvious on the highly cropped > images. Was it visible on the field? Based on the image the upperwing > doesn't look 'uniformly dark' as Hayman et al says.< Gyorgy, please compare the pictures from Naturalis and the BM, my impression is that the underpart colouration of the two species is quite similar. Gyorgy Szimuly wrote: > Any chance of a top-side view of the flying bird where wing pattern and rump visible? < All I the pictures I took can be seen here: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/eskimo%20curlew%20numenius%20borealis.htm Gyorgy Szimuly wrote: > By the way... a Little Curlew record would also be awesome for the > Netherlands. :))))< Yes. Bob OBrien wrote: > I've only seen one little curlew which I photographed extensively in > California years ago but i agree with your comments on the bill. > BUT...This is too incredible. Are there supposed to be links to other > photos on this page (for the other 7 shorebirds)? If so they don't work. > It would be useful to see all the photos to help judge this incredible > find among photos of 'known' birds. > Congratulations (?) & best regards,< Thank you for your kind congrats Bob! Bill Benner wrote:>I am curious how you can tell that this is not a Little Curlew (Numenius minutus). I have never seen either species, so I don't really have any experience. I thought, though, that N. borealis had cinnamon wing linings--brighter than the bird in the photos? Thanks for any help,< > On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Norman D.van Swelm wrote: >> Hi Bill, Of course Little Curlew crossed my mind, it wasn't like: Oh look an Eskimo Curlew! Little has a different shaped and shorter bill and it's legs are projected beyond the tail. Under ideal conditions the cinnamon may be brighter but this bird was at quite some distance besides have a look at the skins in the British Museum the cinnamon is not as bright as in some illustrations in ID guides.< As mentioned above we made a number of pictures of Little Curlews Numenius minutus in Naturalis. There are quite a few skins in the collection from birds shot in the former Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia) and the Philippines. Alas there are only three mounted Eskimo Curlews without date, one with location Brazil and for the other two: North America. They will be placed on the site soon, so keep an eye on: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/eskimo%20curlew%20numenius%20borealis.htm All the best, Norman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: (Eskimo Curlew) Damn few and they're not all dead! From: "Collinson, Dr Jon M." <m.collinson AT ABDN.AC.UK> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:22:55 +0100 I feel there's been (until you) no rebuttal of this Eskimo Curlew claim because many people thought it was not necessary. Much as we all love and respect Norman, and wish him well in his search for the big one, he does occasionally publish claims of rare birds alongside photos that are not really diagnostic or fully supportive of his identification. I'm sure I'm not alone in thanking him for his thought-provoking and often entertaining posts, but like you I think a claim of an Eskimo Curlew in Europe will at least have to be supported by some relevant identification features. Norman does make valuable contributions to gull ringing projects and we would be a lot worse off without his input. Best wishes Martin -------------------------------------------------------- J. Martin Collinson Snr. Lecturer University of Aberdeen School of Medical Sciences Institute of Medical Sciences Foresterhill Aberdeen AB25 2ZD UK email: m.collinson AT abdn.ac.uk Tel: +44 1224 555750 Mobile: +44 7899 065930 -----Original Message----- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jean Iron Sent: 03 July 2008 13:55 To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] (Eskimo Curlew) Damn few and they're not all dead! There has not been a rebuttal to this extraordinary claim of an Eskimo Curlew, so I offer my views. The poor quality photos show no diagnostic characters of an Eskimo Curlew. Its size cannot be properly evaluated. The wings linings appear gray not tawny. The bill seems too heavy, too deep-based, too long, and too strongly decurved for an Eskimo Curlew. The accepted sightings in Texas from 1945 to the 1960s never reported more than two birds (Oberholser 1974). The last photograph of an Eskimo Curlew was taken in March 1962 in Texas, reproduced in The Shorebird Guide 2006. The last specimen was shot in the Barbados, West Indies, on 4 September 1963. I have often wondered if bird in the 1962 Texas photo and the 1963 Barbados specimen are the same individual given that there were perhaps only three very old Eskimo Curlews alive in 1963. There is no evidence that any of the claimed sightings since the 1960s was correctly identified. None was accepted by a museum authority or records committee. Most authorities state that the Eskimo Curlew is "presumed extinct". The recent photos from the Netherlands do not change its status. The Eskimo Curlew probably has been extinct for almost 50 years. This is my only post about this bird. Ron Pittaway Minden, Ontario Canada At 04:54 PM 7/2/2008, Norman D.van Swelm wrote: Have a look here please: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/eskimo%20curlew%20numenius%20borealis.htm Cheers, Norman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683. Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: (Eskimo Curlew) Damn few and they're not all dead! From: Jerry Tangren <tangren AT WSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:24:00 -0700 I wouldn't worry about the plumage color, but that bill just looks funny for any bird. Any chance the photo was enhanced to bring out its shape? I'd also like to believe. Whatever happened to the secret Canadian breeding population of the late 20th century? --Jerry On 7/3/08 5:54 AM, "Jean Iron" wrote: > There has not been a rebuttal to this extraordinary claim of an > Eskimo Curlew, so I offer my views. The poor quality photos show no > diagnostic characters of an Eskimo Curlew. Its size cannot be > properly evaluated. The wings linings appear gray not tawny. The bill > seems too heavy, too deep-based, too long, and too strongly decurved > for an Eskimo Curlew. > > The accepted sightings in Texas from 1945 to the 1960s never reported > more than two birds (Oberholser 1974). The last photograph of an > Eskimo Curlew was taken in March 1962 in Texas, reproduced in The > Shorebird Guide 2006. The last specimen was shot in the Barbados, > West Indies, on 4 September 1963. I have often wondered if bird in > the 1962 Texas photo and the 1963 Barbados specimen are the same > individual given that there were perhaps only three very old Eskimo > Curlews alive in 1963. There is no evidence that any of the claimed > sightings since the 1960s was correctly identified. None was accepted > by a museum authority or records committee. Most authorities state > that the Eskimo Curlew is "presumed extinct". The recent photos from > the Netherlands do not change its status. The Eskimo Curlew probably > has been extinct for almost 50 years. > > This is my only post about this bird. > > Ron Pittaway > Minden, Ontario > Canada > > > At 04:54 PM 7/2/2008, Norman D.van Swelm wrote: > > Have a look here please: > > http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/eskimo%20curlew%20nume > nius%20borealis.htm > > Cheers, Norman > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: (Eskimo Curlew) Damn few and they're not all dead! From: Jean Iron <jeaniron AT SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:54:39 -0400 There has not been a rebuttal to this extraordinary claim of an Eskimo Curlew, so I offer my views. The poor quality photos show no diagnostic characters of an Eskimo Curlew. Its size cannot be properly evaluated. The wings linings appear gray not tawny. The bill seems too heavy, too deep-based, too long, and too strongly decurved for an Eskimo Curlew. The accepted sightings in Texas from 1945 to the 1960s never reported more than two birds (Oberholser 1974). The last photograph of an Eskimo Curlew was taken in March 1962 in Texas, reproduced in The Shorebird Guide 2006. The last specimen was shot in the Barbados, West Indies, on 4 September 1963. I have often wondered if bird in the 1962 Texas photo and the 1963 Barbados specimen are the same individual given that there were perhaps only three very old Eskimo Curlews alive in 1963. There is no evidence that any of the claimed sightings since the 1960s was correctly identified. None was accepted by a museum authority or records committee. Most authorities state that the Eskimo Curlew is "presumed extinct". The recent photos from the Netherlands do not change its status. The Eskimo Curlew probably has been extinct for almost 50 years. This is my only post about this bird. Ron Pittaway Minden, Ontario Canada At 04:54 PM 7/2/2008, Norman D.van Swelm wrote: Have a look here please: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/eskimo%20curlew%20numenius%20borealis.htm Cheers, Norman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Damn few and they're not all deid! From: Peter Adriaens <p_adriaens AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 02:30:58 -0700 Well done Norman. Next, you will probably come up with similar 'evidence' of a breeding population of Ivory-billed Woodpeckers in The Netherlands! Peter ----- Original Message ---- From: Norman D.van Swelm To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 10:54:28 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] Damn few and they're not all deid! Have a look here please: � http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/eskimo%20curlew%20numenius%20borealis.htm Cheers, Norman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Damn few and they're not all deid! From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 22:54:28 +0200 Have a look here please: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/eskimo%20curlew%20numenius%20borealis.htm Cheers, Norman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Eskimo Curlew? From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker AT ZIPCON.NET> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 14:23:45 -0700 HI ALL: I got this from another listserver. How come the bird in question isn't a runt Eurasian Curlew or Little Curlew? -- Ian Paulsen Bainbridge Island, WA, USA " Which just goes to show that a passion for books is extremely unhealthy." from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart". ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 22:54:28 +0200 From: Norman D.van Swelm To: UKBN , BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [UKbirdnet] Damn few and they're not all deid! Have a look here please: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/eskimo%20curlew%20numenius%20borealis.htm Cheers, Norman _______________________________________________ UKbirdnet mailing list ukbirdnet AT rhea.dcs.bbk.ac.uk http://rhea.dcs.bbk.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/ukbirdnet Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Change in Eye Color From: Anand Arya <anandarya01 AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:02:32 +0530 The images, links below, of Intermediate Egret (Mesophoyx intermedia) show the color of the eye as red, which is yellow in non-breeding plumage for this bird. This is the first time that I have noticed it. Is it normal and how does it happen - the harmonal changes ? Will appreciate expert comments, please. http://groups.google.co.in/group/birdphotoindia/attach/4d4e1bac18a52fb4/Egret%2C+Intermediate+-+Kosi+Wetlands+-+2008.06.22+(_28I2606).jpg?hl=en&part=4&view=1 http://groups.google.co.in/group/birdphotoindia/attach/e944a1e26cce4b37/Egret%2C+Intermediate+-+Kosi+Wetlands+-+2008.06.22+(_28I2591).jpg?hl=en&part=4&view=1 http://groups.google.co.in/group/birdphotoindia/attach/4f789ac020eb56dd/Egret%2C+Intermediate+-+Kosi+Wetlands+-+2008.06.22+(_28I2596).jpg?hl=en&part=4&view=1 Regards. Anand Arya ANAND ARYA ASSOCIATES STRATEGIC TURN-AROUND MANAGEMENT GROUP 353, SECTOR 15-A NOIDA 201301 INDIA + 91 98182 61909 www.anandarya.com www.okhlabirdpark.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Chincoteague NWR, VA dark-billed Great Egret - yes - 7/1/2008 From: Phil Davis <pdavis AT IX.NETCOM.COM> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 04:58:24 -0400 Chatters, ID Frontiers, MD Osprey: The dark-billed Great Egret (previously reported and discussed on birdgw01) was observed on 1 July, 2008 between 2:30 and 3:30 pm. The location was near where it was previously reported ... inside the Wildlife Loop before Black Duck Trail. This egret was feeding (on eels or snakes?) in a small pool with many other Great and Snowy Egrets and Glossy Ibis inside the loop (on the left) behind the clump of trees and before the first interpretative sign. This is about 1/8 mile from the parking lot and the entrance to the wildlife loop. The loop does not open for vehicles until 3pm, so if you go earlier you will have to walk-in, but it's a short distance. The light was good in the afternoon. I was able to get photos of the bird next to "normal" Great Egrets. When I get a chance, I'll forward some images to Todd Day and Marshall Iliff who have been tracking this bird and working on the identity. There is speculation that this could be a European or African subspecies of Great Egret. Feel free to forward this to VA Birds. Phil ================================== Phil Davis Davidsonville, Maryland USA mailto:PDavis AT ix.netcom.com ================================== Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Hybrid Couch's x Eastern Kingbird From: jkennedy366 <jkennedy366 AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 17:01:59 -0500 Recently I had my first opportunity to take pictures of what I thought was the new crop of couch's kingbirds that have been resident at Smith Point Texas. Couch's have nested at this site for 4 years now which is adjacent to the Smith Point Hawk Watch Tower. Later in the day I started wondering what I had really seen and ended up with pictures of a bird not in the bird books. A front view of the first youngster http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/99397638 And a back view http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/99397652 The same bird, I think in a nearby treetop http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/99479583 And its litter mate in the same treetops http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/99397695 All the birds can be viewed at http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/couchs_eastern_kingbird And a young eastern kingbird for comparison http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/82706726 All my couch's pictures are of older birds http://www.pbase.com/joseph_kennedy_36/image/84211626 I have been following what I thought was a nesting pair of couch's with two adults present. When the young fledged 2 weeks ago only one adult fed the young while I watched and an eastern kingbird perched nearby. Friday when I took the pictures, the 2 youngsters were near the road for the first time but were repeatedly disturbed by truck traffic. The 2 birds socialized, chased and otherwise interacted together. They both called with a short version of couch's chatter but higher in pitch. The only adult bird seen in the area was a passing adult couch's kingbird. I have posted some about the birds on Texbirds and most comments I received suggested gray kingbird but the bill is wide rather than long and I understand some of the back feathers are of the wrong color. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated Joseph Kennedy Jkennedy366 AT comcast.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Pale red-tailed hawk From: Greg Neise <greg AT LPZOO.ORG> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:50:54 -0700 Hi all, Yesterday, I photographed a pale red-tailed hawk that I think looks like an immature Krider's. Photos can be viewed at IBF: http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?topic=7282.0 As always, any comments and direction is greatly appreciated...and please indicate if it is OK to post your comments to the IBF thread. Cheers, -greg neise - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Greg Neise Staff Photographer Manager of Web and Graphics Technology Lincoln Park Zoo 2001 N. Clark St. Chicago, IL 60614 312-742-2240 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Chincoteague Great Egret photos From: Jim Hengeveld <jhengeve AT INDIANA.EDU> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:23:23 -0400 Last Thursday (6/26), Susan & I stopped at Chincoteague and Susan got some photos of the dark-billed egret there. On Friday, we were on the Outer Banks, NC where Susan got some shots of a local Great Egret. We never saw the dark-billed bird in the company of other Great Egrets so we could not make a direct size comparison. Here are some close-up shots of the head of the dark-billed bird as well as of the head of a subsp. egretta bird. There are also a couple of close-ups of the tibiae of both birds: http://www.indiana.edu/~ornith/birds/Egrets6-08/egrets.html Here are a number of pics of just the dark-billed bird. Based on comparisons with earlier photos, it appears that the bill might be getting more yellow, i.e., that it is going out of its "breeding plumage." In direct views of the bird as well as in the photos, there was no indication of any lighter coloration on the upper tibiae, i.e., they were uniformly dark (blackish) all of the way to the beginning of the leg feathering. http://www.indiana.edu/~ornith/birds/Egrets6-08/DBegret.html ******************** Jim & Susan Hengeveld Unionville, IN Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Question about Parus sp. in central Europe From: Eric DeFonso <yoericd AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:02:41 -0700 Hello, I've just subscribed to this listserv. I'm thrilled to have such a knowledgeable audience! Last summer on a trip to Germany and the Czech Republic, I went on a day trip to the Czech countryside near the town of Turnov, namely to Cesky Raj, or 'Bohemian Paradise', which is about 80 km NE of Prague. While hiking through the beautiful forests there, I saw a number of new species for me (I'm from the United States, in Colorado) that I only know through studying 'Birds of Europe' by Mullarney et al. On one occasion I photographed this Parus sp.: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferruginous/1313530155/in/set-72157601837699734/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferruginous/1313530417/in/set-72157601837699734/ These aren't very good photos, but hopefully they are good enough. As I mention in the photo captions, I had originally thought this was a Willow Tit, based on geography and habitat. But the photos show a quite small chin bib as well as a cap that seems (in the second photo) to be a little glossy. I believe both characters are actually suggestive of Marsh Tit. I have no other familiarity with either species or any intraspecific variability. Is it possible that this was a Marsh Tit despite its location close to coniferous forest on a fairly steep hillside? Do some Willow Tits show small bibs and glossy caps when they're young, perhaps? Or is it just not possible to determine species here without a better photo? Any thoughts and information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Eric DeFonso Fort Collins, Colorado USA Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: New Mexico Empidonax sp. Question From: Harry LeGrand <harrylegrand AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:36:13 -0700 Acadians I see and especially hear every few days in North Carolina. It is the only Empi that breeds where I live. The call note in the videos sounds like an Acadian to me. To me the call note I would render as a sharp "Peet", and for all intents and purposes, it is exactly the same note as the first of the two notes in the song: Peet SEEK. The only concern I have is that Acadians on their breeding grounds give songs AND CALLS infrequently, maybe about once every 15-30 seconds. They don't give the Peet call that often. (They are notoriously "quiet" at that time of the year.) The bird in NM is giving the Peet call every 2-4 seconds, unless the tape was speeded up, which I assume is not the case. Harry LeGrand Raleigh, NC --- On Mon, 6/23/08, Chris Benesh wrote: From: Chris Benesh Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] New Mexico Empidonax sp. Question To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 12:48 AM Hi Matt, Though Acadian is the NA empid I see least frequently, I still think that the excellent documentation supports that ID. In particular, the vocal data is a match to that of Acadian Flycatcher position notes. Various somewhat similar calls of Yellow-bellied Flycatcher (those typically given on their wintering grounds) are less symmetrical, tending to be slightly drawn out in the decending element of the note, and with a narrower frequency differential than corresponding calls of Acadian. That alone would suggest that the New Mexico bird is an Acadian. Also suggestive is the long-winged look with those two big gaps in primary spacing in the outer primaries, as well as a crisp, distinct narrow eye ring. Overall coloration is so similar between the two candidates. Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Benesh Tucson, Arizona cdbenesh AT cox.net Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com "Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open." James Dewar ----------------------------------------------------------------- On Jun 22, 2008, at 7:03 PM, Matt Baumann wrote: > Hi All, > I would like some input on an Empidonax flycatcher that was seen in > Milnesand, New Mexico 9/1/2006. This bird has brought up some > discussion > among New Mexico birders as to what species it is and I would like > to hear > from others who have more experience with empids. Jerry Oldenettel > has put > a set together on his Flickr site with all pictures of this particular > bird and two short video clips with vocalizations. The link to his > site > is: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jroldenettel/sets/72157605568154444/ > > I look forward to hearing your thoughts. > > Matt Baumann > ABQ, New Mexico > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast From: Mark Stevenson <drbrdr AT WORLDNET.ATT.NET> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:42:54 -0700 "The preceding does not apply to.......such birds held in captivity at public zoological parks, and public scientific or educational institutions." This sounds like a fair-sized gap in the regulation such that the absence of markings is not as useful a determinant as their presence. The other gap is that it only applies to birds owned under valid permits. Mark Stevenson Tucson Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:42:51 -0700 On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:29:44 -0400, Phil Davis wrote: > >Can anyone cite where a clipping a hallux is legally required for >captive waterfowl? I have never see this as a law or regulation. It's in the Code of Federal Regulations: 50 CFR 21.25(c)2: "All live migratory waterfowl possessed in captivity under authority of a valid waterfowl sale and disposal permit shall have been, prior to 6 weeks of age, physically marked as defined in Sec. 21.13(b). All offspring of such birds hatched, reared, and retained in captivity shall be so marked prior to attaining 6 weeks of age. The preceding does not apply to captive adult geese, swans, and brant which were marked previous to March 1, 1967, by a "V" notch in the web of one foot, nor to such birds held in captivity at public zoological parks, and public scientific or educational institutions." 50 CFR 21.13(b): "All mallard ducks possessed in captivity, without a permit, shall have been physically marked by at least one of the following methods prior to 6 weeks of age and all such ducks hatched, reared, and retained in captivity thereafter shall be so marked prior to reaching 6 weeks of age. (1) Removal of the hind toe from the right foot. (2) Pinioning of a wing: Provided, That this method shall be the removal of the metacarpal bones of one wing or a portion of the metacarpal bones which renders the bird permanently incapable of flight. (3) Banding of one metatarsus with a seamless metal band. (4) Tattooing of a readily discernible number or letter or combination thereof on the web of one foot." -- Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu Birding Classes start Sep 9 in SF http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/ California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/ Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast From: Phil Davis <pdavis AT IX.NETCOM.COM> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:29:44 -0400 Ian et al.: Can anyone cite where a clipping a hallux is legally required for captive waterfowl? I have never see this as a law or regulation. Thanks. Phil At 08:26 06/23/2008, Ian A. McLaren wrote: >Mark et al.: > >As others have noted, either (even modest) bands or (a more "FRIGHTENING >THING?") clipped haluces are legally required on captive waterfowl >native to N. >America. Recently checking of old photos has led to the removal from >lists here >of a long-staying, free-ranging, Black-bellied Whistling-Duck in 1998; it had >both hind toes truncated. > >However, photos show that none of the recent ten in NS had bands, and at least >five of those in NS had intact hind toes. I haven't checked the photos of the >nine that reached MA, but assume someone has done so. ================================== Phil Davis Davidsonville, Maryland USA mailto:PDavis AT ix.netcom.com ================================== Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: BIRDWG01] Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast From: "Ian A. McLaren" <I.A.McLaren AT DAL.CA> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:26:50 -0300 Mark et al.: As others have noted, either (even modest) bands or (a more "FRIGHTENING THING?") clipped haluces are legally required on captive waterfowl native to N. America. Recently checking of old photos has led to the removal from lists here of a long-staying, free-ranging, Black-bellied Whistling-Duck in 1998; it had both hind toes truncated. However, photos show that none of the recent ten in NS had bands, and at least five of those in NS had intact hind toes. I haven't checked the photos of the nine that reached MA, but assume someone has done so. Cheers, Ian M. Ian A. McLaren Biology Department Dalhousie University Halifax, NS Canada B3H 4J1 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: New Mexico Empidonax sp. Question From: Chris Benesh <cdbenesh AT COX.NET> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:48:41 -0700 Hi Matt, Though Acadian is the NA empid I see least frequently, I still think that the excellent documentation supports that ID. In particular, the vocal data is a match to that of Acadian Flycatcher position notes. Various somewhat similar calls of Yellow-bellied Flycatcher (those typically given on their wintering grounds) are less symmetrical, tending to be slightly drawn out in the decending element of the note, and with a narrower frequency differential than corresponding calls of Acadian. That alone would suggest that the New Mexico bird is an Acadian. Also suggestive is the long-winged look with those two big gaps in primary spacing in the outer primaries, as well as a crisp, distinct narrow eye ring. Overall coloration is so similar between the two candidates. Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Benesh Tucson, Arizona cdbenesh AT cox.net Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com "Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open." James Dewar ----------------------------------------------------------------- On Jun 22, 2008, at 7:03 PM, Matt Baumann wrote: > Hi All, > I would like some input on an Empidonax flycatcher that was seen in > Milnesand, New Mexico 9/1/2006. This bird has brought up some > discussion > among New Mexico birders as to what species it is and I would like > to hear > from others who have more experience with empids. Jerry Oldenettel > has put > a set together on his Flickr site with all pictures of this particular > bird and two short video clips with vocalizations. The link to his > site > is: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jroldenettel/sets/72157605568154444/ > > I look forward to hearing your thoughts. > > Matt Baumann > ABQ, New Mexico > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: New Mexico Empidonax sp. Question From: Matt Baumann <mb687 AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:03:43 -0700 Hi All, I would like some input on an Empidonax flycatcher that was seen in Milnesand, New Mexico 9/1/2006. This bird has brought up some discussion among New Mexico birders as to what species it is and I would like to hear from others who have more experience with empids. Jerry Oldenettel has put a set together on his Flickr site with all pictures of this particular bird and two short video clips with vocalizations. The link to his site is: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jroldenettel/sets/72157605568154444/ I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Matt Baumann ABQ, New Mexico Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast From: Mark Szantyr <birddog55 AT CHARTER.NET> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:03:45 -0400 Photos of the bird and the band are on Surfbirds, NA Stp Press page. That is www.surfbirds.com Mark Mark S.Szantyr 80 Bicknell Road Apt. 9 Ashford, CT 06278 USA Birddog55 AT Charter.net 860-487-9766 ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Szantyr To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:20 PM Subject: Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast On Friday evening, I observed a Black-bellied Whistling-Duck in Litchfield, Litchfield Co., CT. It was at a local aviculturalist's aviary and flight cages. The bird showed up here in the midst of the occurences of BB Whistling ducks in Massachusetts and in New York. The bird was not his nor does he believe it belongs to anyone in Connecticut. It is free-flying but sports (AND HERE IS THE VERY FRIGHTENING THING!) a faint yellow plastic leg band typical of those used by keepers of waterfowl. This band is only visible in the field under extremely good conditions.Under most field conditions, THIS BAND IS NOT VISIBLE!!!! This bird is attempting to join the collection and often is seen perched on the netting of his flight pens. It is probably wise to scrutinize any of this species very well before reaching a "wild" conclusion. If this bird were at another location and did not afford such good looks as I had on Friday ( I have photos that show the band), we might be counting it as Connecticut's first. Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade, but this might change the discourse around other recent Northeastern sightings. Mark Mark S.Szantyr 80 Bicknell Road Apt. 9 Ashford, CT 06278 USA Birddog55 AT Charter.net 860-487-9766 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Cautionary tale concerning Black-bellied Whistling Ducks in the Northeast From: Mark Szantyr <birddog55 AT CHARTER.NET> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:20:58 -0400 On Friday evening, I observed a Black-bellied Whistling-Duck in Litchfield, Litchfield Co., CT. It was at a local aviculturalist's aviary and flight cages. The bird showed up here in the midst of the occurences of BB Whistling ducks in Massachusetts and in New York. The bird was not his nor does he believe it belongs to anyone in Connecticut. It is free-flying but sports (AND HERE IS THE VERY FRIGHTENING THING!) a faint yellow plastic leg band typical of those used by keepers of waterfowl. This band is only visible in the field under extremely good conditions.Under most field conditions, THIS BAND IS NOT VISIBLE!!!! This bird is attempting to join the collection and often is seen perched on the netting of his flight pens. It is probably wise to scrutinize any of this species very well before reaching a "wild" conclusion. If this bird were at another location and did not afford such good looks as I had on Friday ( I have photos that show the band), we might be counting it as Connecticut's first. Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade, but this might change the discourse around other recent Northeastern sightings. Mark Mark S.Szantyr 80 Bicknell Road Apt. 9 Ashford, CT 06278 USA Birddog55 AT Charter.net 860-487-9766 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Chincoteague Great Egret From: Doug Pratt <Doug.Pratt AT NCMAIL.NET> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:49:17 -0400 Hi birders: I have been doing some looking into the subspecies of Great Egret in the course of working on records in Hawaii and Micronesia. Worldwide, all these forms look alike in nonbreeding plumage, but they vary in soft part colors at other times. All the Eurasian and Indo-Pacific forms have color at the base of their legs (and bills) at this time of year. The African one A. a. melanorhynchos is the only one that has all-black legs year-round and an all-black bill in courtship. The Chincoteague bird is dead-on for a courting melanorhynchos, and the season is right for the colors it shows. The African bird is mostly sedentary but has wandered before to the Seychelles. It does not strike me as outrageous for one to have crossed the Atlantic at the narrowest point and found its way north along the coast. Maybe that's how that Western Reef Heron got here. There is a good chance that the American bird A. a. egretta is a separate species, based on both DNA (studies so far have not included all forms, so still fragmentary information), and potential that the different colors during the courtship ("high breeding") stage are isolating mechanisms. So birders should pay attention to the Chincoteague bird because it is a potential split whichever Old World form it represents. A good reference (with somewhat dated systematics) is Hancock & Kushlan's The Herons Handbook (Harper & Row 1984). See especially the plate on p. 27. Doug -- H. Douglas Pratt, Research Curator of Birds North Carolina State Museum of Natural Sciences 11 West Jones Street Raleigh, NC 27601-1029 Phone: (919)733-7450 ext. 728 E-mail: doug.pratt AT ncmail.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: correct URLs for Chincoteague egret From: BlkVulture AT aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:22:46 EDT Screwed up one of the URLs in my last message. Apologies. New images by Pat Mann: _http://www.flickr.com/photos/patmann/2599884413/in/photostream/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patmann/2599884413/in/photostream/) Images hosted at Bill Hubick's site: _http://www.billhubick.com/others/va_egret.html_ (http://www.billhubick.com/others/va_egret.html) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patmann/2599884413/in/photostream/) Images at Larry Meade's site: _http://www.uberlarry.smugmug.com/gallery/2498169_rgafW/1/303652728_xnXu8#3036 54690_MoG5E_ (http://www.uberlarry.smugmug.com/gallery/2498169_rgafW/1/303652728_xnXu8#303654690_MoG5E) Cheers, Todd --------------------------------- Todd Michael Day Jeffersonton, Virginia Culpeper County, USA blkvulture AT aol.com --------------------------------- **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) _______________________________________________ va-bird mailing list http://mailman.listserve.com/listmanager/listinfo/va-bird Thank you for subscribing to Va-bird, a service of the Virginia Society of Ornithology. Please consider joining the VSO. http://www.virginiabirds.net/ Subject: correct URLs for Chincoteague egret From: BlkVulture AT AOL.COM Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:22:46 EDT Screwed up one of the URLs in my last message. Apologies. New images by Pat Mann: _http://www.flickr.com/photos/patmann/2599884413/in/photostream/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patmann/2599884413/in/photostream/) Images hosted at Bill Hubick's site: _http://www.billhubick.com/others/va_egret.html_ (http://www.billhubick.com/others/va_egret.html) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patmann/2599884413/in/photostream/) Images at Larry Meade's site: _http://www.uberlarry.smugmug.com/gallery/2498169_rgafW/1/303652728_xnXu8#3036 54690_MoG5E_ (http://www.uberlarry.smugmug.com/gallery/2498169_rgafW/1/303652728_xnXu8#303654690_MoG5E) Cheers, Todd --------------------------------- Todd Michael Day Jeffersonton, Virginia Culpeper County, USA blkvulture AT aol.com --------------------------------- **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: More on Chincoteague egret From: BlkVulture AT AOL.COM Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:04:54 EDT Hola, Refreshing the dark-billed Great Egret topic, contained below is a link to more images by Pat Mann, as well as comments by Marshall Iliff which he asked me to forward to the various lists. Also, there may be more images posted to Bill Hubick's site within a day or so. New images by Pat Mann: _http://www.flickr.com/photos/patmann/2599884413/in/photostream/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patmann/2599884413/in/photostream/) Images hosted at Bill Hubick's site: _http://www.flickr.com/photos/patmann/2599884413/in/photostream/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/patmann/2599884413/in/photostream/) Images at Larry Meade's site: _http://www.uberlarry.smugmug.com/gallery/2498169_rgafW/1/303652728_xnXu8#3036 54690_MoG5E_ (http://www.uberlarry.smugmug.com/gallery/2498169_rgafW/1/303652728_xnXu8#303654690_MoG5E) Comments from Marshall Iliff: Now that I am back from a busy work week, I have had a little more time to think about the black-billed Great Egret at Chincoteague. In short, I think it is most likely E. a. melanorhyncha of Africa, but still feel that an aberrant E. a. alba should be eliminated. I am still missing some key references (Birds of the Western Palearctic, for example), but here are some new thoughts. Below my thoughts is the subspecies account from Birds of North America Online. Below I consider the field marks and probability of two black-billed Old World subspecies: Widespread northern E. a. alba and Africa E. a. melanorhyncha; I follow Clements (2007) is using E. a. melanorhyncha, rather than melanorhynchos from BNA. SUBSPECIES ID Based on the account in BNA, note that E. a. alba is LARGER than E. a. egretta. The only written account of the Chincoteague bird I've yet seen (reporting it as Reddish Egret) mentioned "nor was it as large as other Great Egrets nearby." If so, perhaps this observation eliminates E. a. alba and implicates E. a. melanorhyncha. A. a. melanorhyncha is "similar to egretta" in size (BNA). A major question then is whether this bird is REALLY smaller, or was it just reported as smaller when the observers believed it was a Reddish Egret? The top photos here (http://www.billhubick.com/others/va_egret.html) appear to show tibia that are black to the base. According the the BNA, E. a. alba and A. a. melanorhyncha have all black legs while those of alba and modesta are pale at the base (as illustrated by Mullarney et al.). I would think that we would see the pale if it was present and this seems to be a strong character indicating that the bird is not E. a. alba. The lores on this bird appear to be dull gray-olive in most photos. Loral color of E. a. melanorhyncha is described and illustrated as lime-green in high condition by Sinclair & Ryan (2003; Birds of Africa) and emerald green in high condition and olive-green in non-breeding condition by Borrow & Demey (2001; Birds of West Africa). This latter description appears to match the Chincoteague bird. I do not know if North American birds ever shows lores of this color--the lores are lime-green in high condition and yellow in non-breeding condition, but I do not know about intermediate stages. The BNA says: Color changes in soft parts vary among populations and have been used in the field to identify subspecies (see Hancock, J. and J. A. Kushlan. 1984. The herons hand-book. Harper and Row, New York.) It seems to me that this is one of the important questions to investigate further. GEOGRAPHICAL PROBABILITY I am willing to essentially rule out Asian E. a. modesta based on probability; although East Asian shorebirds, gulls, Long-billed Murrelet, and even a few passerines have vagrancy patterns that track across Canada and the United States as far as the East Coast, this is not true of any herons. In fact, all Asian heron vagrants that have reached the New World have occurred ONLY on the Aleutians, including Chinese Pond-Heron, Chinese Egret, Little Egret, Intermediate Egret, Gray Heron, Yellow Bittern, and Asian taxa of Cattle Egret, Great Egret, and Black-crowned Night-Heron (an impressive list!); no herons of Asian origin have been confirmed from mainland Alaska or anywhere else in mainland North America. The vagrancy pattern for Eurasian herons in Eastern North America appears to center on the equatorial trade winds zone. Many Palearctic birds (including Alpine Swift, Spotted Crake, White Stork, Eurasian Kestrel, Collared Pratincole, and other more "standard" Eurasian shorebirds, gulls, terns, Common Cuckoo etc.) have been recorded from the Caribbean, but foremost among these are herons. Cattle Egret reached the New World by crossing in this zone, colonizing eastern South America and the Caribbean and spreading north from there. Little Egret and Gray Heron are both in the process of colonizing the Caribbean, albeit more slowly. There are also records in the Caribbean/eastern South America for Western Reef-Heron, Little Bittern, and Purple Heron. Regardless of subspecies, I would suggest that the Chincoteague Great Egret probably reached the New World via this route. It also seems to be that the North Atlantic may be another vagrancy route, since Gray Heron records from Newfoundland at sea off Newfoundland suggest that birds were arriving directly across the North Atlantic. However, given that Little Egret is uncommon in the UK and has strayed to Iceland just 9 times (through 2002; http://www.hi.is/~yannk/status_egrgar.html), I personally believe that Newfoundland/Nova Scotia/New England records of Little Egret may be birds that have crossed around the equator and migrated north with other herons. Along the same lines, Western Reef-Heron is unrecorded in the British Isles, but has occurred in the Northeast on at least two separate occasions (Massachusetts 1983 and Newfoundland-Nova Scotia-New Hampshire-Maine-New York in 2006-07). I'd argue that Western Reef-Heron has reached the New World by crossing in the Caribbean and moving north from there, and would further argue that the same is true for Little Egret. To return to the Great Egret, I note that Iceland had only two records of Great Egret through 2002. Given a choice between E. a. egretta and the African E. a. melanorhyncha, I initially thought E. a. alba would be vastly more likely, as it is migratory, winters as far south as Africa, and would be likely to be displaced off of western Africa on its northward to southward migrations. Given the Caribbean records of Western Reef-Heron, which is strictly coastal in West Africa and essentially non-migratory, E. a. melanorhyncha becomes more likely and at least a reasonable option. (Given that thinking, perhaps Goliath and Black-headed Herons are not out of the question for North America and Intermediate Egret certainly isn't). In the end, I tend to think either subspecies is equally possible, although the migratory nature of E. a. alba still gives that form the edge in my mind. THINGS TO CHECK Observers that see and photograph this egret could help this process by focusing their attention on a few things: 1) Carefully compare the size with surrounding Great Egrets 2) Carefully study the loral color of this bird in good light and describe it relative to other Great Egrets at Chincoteague 3) Carefully check for any other characters that might differ between this bird and surrounding Great Egrets. Does the gape line extend farther behind the eye? Are there any bill structure differences? Do the plumes coming off the back of the bird appear longer in the black-billed bird or shorter? 4) If anyone notices a feather fall off the bird it would be worth collecting for genetic analysis. Feathers collected in this fashion provided some genetic information on the Maryland Kelp Gull. This is a case where detailed descriptions can be very useful in assessing field marks (like relative size) that are hard to capture in photos and it would be nice to see some truly detailed descriptions of this bird. Best, Marshall Iliff ----------------------- From Birds of North America Online (http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/570/articles/systematics) [requires subscription] (Recommended Citation: Mccrimmon, Jr., Donald A., John C. Ogden and G. Thomas Bancroft. 2001. Great Egret (Ardea alba), The Birds of North America Online (A. Poole, Ed.). Ithaca: Cornell Lab of Ornithology; Retrieved from the Birds of North America Online: http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/570) Subspecies Four subspecies recognized following Payne 1979; ranges disjunct except between modesta and nominate alba in e. Asia. Subspecies based on size (mainly average differences in wing length) and color of bare parts (especially extent of black on bill and red on legs in breeding adult). Measurements below from Marchant and Higgins 1990 . A. a. egretta Gmelin, 1789: Breeds over entire range in the Americas (see Distribution, above). Small, with average wing length of male about 383 mm; bill of breeding adults orange-yellow, with black along culmen; tibia black. A. a. melanorhynchos Wagler, 1827: Mainly resident south of the Sahara in Africa, from Senegal and Sudan south to Cape Province; also on Madagascar. Small (similar to egretta); most of bill becomes black in breeding adult; tibia black. A. a. alba Linnaeus, 1758: Breeds in scattered localities across central and se. Europe and across much of temperate Asia to n. Japan; winters to central Africa, Persian Gulf, n. India, s. Korea, and s. China. Large (438-451 mm); bill becomes mostly blackish in breeding birds; tibia, especially basally, dull yellowish becoming reddish in breeding birds. Populations in Japan and nearby areas may be intermediate in size toward modesta (Amadon and Woolfenden 1952). A. a. modesta Gray, 1831: Breeds in se. Asia from Pakistan and India east and from s. Japan south through Indonesia, Australia, and New Zealand. Population on New Zealand sometimes recognized as separate subspecies, maoriana . Small, but Australian and New Zealand populations average larger than those in India and China (wing length of male 376 mm versus 361.5 mm); bill and legs similar to nominate alba. -- ------------------------------------------------- Marshall J. Iliff West Roxbury, MA miliff AT aol.com ------------------------------------------------- eBird/AKN Project Leader Cornell Lab of Ornithology 159 Sapsucker Woods Rd. Ithaca, NY 14850 http://www.ebird.org http://www.avianknowledge.net ------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Todd Michael Day Jeffersonton, Virginia Culpeper County, USA blkvulture AT aol.com --------------------------------- **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Panama skua From: "kratter AT flmnh.ufl.edu" <kratter@FLMNH.UFL.EDU> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:52:15 -0400 I posted regarding this skua a few weeks back. It is still here and today I was able to get better photos. No doubt that it is a skua (as opposed to a jaeger in the American sense). Active molt and cool tones to the plumage rule out Great Skua. Bill looks fairly long, but not really massive. I expect that it is a South Polar Skua, but would like to receive opinions from you. Its plumage is very tattered. Here is a link to the photos: http://www.pbase.com/kratter/panama_skua _http://www.pbase.com/kratter/panama_skua_ I have only rudimentary references at hand, but the only Caribbean skua record I can find is of a Great Skua from Belize. Many thanks, Andy Kratter Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Swinhoe's Snipe and Siberian Chiffchaff From: Harry Lehto <hlehto AT UTU.FI> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:41:24 +0300 Good Midsummer, two interesting birds have shown up in Finland in the past week. Besides being rather rare "sibes", they both are sort of an ID challenge for the European community and also potentially for the North American community. Should you wish to view the sonograms of the recordings, hear them, and view some pictures please check the following links. Comments welcome. Oh yes, the species in question as shown in the suject line are Swinhoe's Snipe (Gallinago megala) and Siberian chiffchaff (Phylloscopus collybita tristis). http://users.utu.fi/hlehto/aania/idanihmeita.shtml http://users.utu.fi/hlehto/photo/rarit/rarit08.shtml further sounds and pictures at http://www.tarsiger.com/home/index.php?lang=eng Regards Harry J Lehto i Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Great Egret (Eurasian?), Chincoteague, Virginia From: BlkVulture AT AOL.COM Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:16:39 EDT Hola, Since late May, a dark-billed egret has been seen and photographed by various birders at Chincoteague National Wildlife Refuge on Assateague Island, Virginia. The bird first came to my attention 14 June as Virginia reviewer for eBird, where an observer named Pat Mann submitted the sighting from 24 May with a note that he had images of the bird. It is possible that other observers saw or photographed this bird earlier than that date. After sharing the images with a few others, including Ned Brinkley, Marshall Iliff, and Eric Hynes, it seems that the bird is presumably a dark-billed Great Egret. There are several subspecies of dark-billed Great Egrets: Ardea alba alba, found in Central Europe to Central Asia. A. a. melanorhyncha, Africa south of the Sahara and Madagascar. A. a. modesta, southern and eastern Asia to Indonesia, Australia, and New Zealand. A. a. alba seems most likely, as it is migratory, geographically closest, and seems plausible that it could cross the ocean on trade winds with Little Egrets and Cattle Egrets. Key questions are: 1. Does loral skin color or any other field mark support this as A. a. alba? 2. Despite geographical probability, are any other taxa of Great Egret eliminated here by the following images? 3. Are there any known records or documentation of presumed A. a. egretta (the North American subspecies) showing completely dark bills? 4. Are there any known records of A. a. alba from North America? Caribbiean perhaps? A. a. modesta has occurred in the Aleutians. Images from Pat Mann, Rexanne Bruno, and Michael Lester have been posted to Bill Hubick's fine site, linked here: _http://www.billhubick.com/others/va_egret.html_ (http://www.billhubick.com/others/va_egret.html) Images by Denise Ryan are at Larry Meade's website here: _http://www.uberlarry.smugmug.com/gallery/2498169_rgafW/1/303652728_xnXu8#3036 54690_MoG5E_ (http://www.uberlarry.smugmug.com/gallery/2498169_rgafW/1/303652728_xnXu8#303654690_MoG5E) Cheers, Todd --------------------------------- Todd Michael Day Jeffersonton, Virginia Culpeper County, USA blkvulture AT aol.com --------------------------------- **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: tern Id THANKS! From: Brian Schmidt <brdemkr AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:52:11 -0400 Thanks everyone who replied to my post. I showed this to some other people and they also agree with your comments. (I even got a second Alvaro's comments about the mask and black on the tail feathers....) -Brian ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Alvaro Jaramillo" To: "'Brian Schmidt'" Subject: RE: [BIRDWG01] tern Id Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:15:07 -0700 Brian A quick reply here, That is a Forster's Tern. The mask is one feature to look for, and the black on the ***inside*** of the outer tail feather. Most other terns have black on the outside. Cheers Al Alvaro Jaramillo chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com -----Original Message----- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Schmidt Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:33 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] tern Id what do you think about the identification of this tern from Florida taken this week? I'm not good at photo identifications.... http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?p=6113385&posted=1#post611 3385 Thanks! Brian Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: tern Id From: Brian Schmidt <brdemkr AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:32:50 -0400 what do you think about the identification of this tern from Florida taken this week? I'm not good at photo identifications.... http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?p=6113385&posted=1#post6113385 Thanks! Brian Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Unknown Bird - San Pedro River, Dudleyville, AZ From: Kristie Nelson <storm_petrel AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:22:49 -0700 Hi all, Bizarre coincidence? About a week or 2 ago a visiting Brit. birder approached me to describe a bird he had seen somewhere near the Grand Canyon in AZ. He said he watched it for some time fairly closely said it was very blue gray above with white cheeks, and white below, beady dark eye and clearly a thrasher like bill, and watched it skulk around in some bushes. He was totally perplexed, so was I from his description. But many of us who are known as the local "bird person" get that type of question from a variety of folks, some of whom are not accustomed to seeing/describing birds, and some descriptions just have to be disregarded (although I did not get a strong impression this guy was a complete beginner). Seeing this bird sure brought that guys description to mind. I still have no idea what either bird was (but do see what Tony says about Yellow Warbler tail). Good fun-Kristie Nelson Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 18:09:38 -0400From: greatgrayowl AT AOL.COMSubject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Unknown Bird - San Pedro River, Dudleyville, AZTo: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Hi all: What an odd bird. However, the tail pattern looks like that of a Yellow Warbler. The overall coloration certainly suggests to me an abnormal plumage and it is not to be trusted. At least, that's my two cents' worth. Tony Leukering Brighton, CO -----Original Message-----From: Matthew O'Brien To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDUSent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 9:43 amSubject: [BIRDWG01] Unknown Bird - San Pedro River, Dudleyville, AZ http://home.comcast.net/~matthewobrien/Mystery%20Bird.jpg This bird was encountered on May 17, 2008 while walking along the dry floodplain of the San Pedro River at Dudleyville, Arizona. My only view of the bird was briefly in flight in front of me, flying from a low position on the left to the top of a salt cedar tree on the right. As I slowly approached, I was prepared to take a photo. I succeeded in taking the photo, but consequently did not observe the bird visually before I lowered my camera - as it quickly flew off. At the time, I presumed that the bird was not anything unusual, and was surprised when I reviewed the photo later. From the view that I had of the bird flying from perhaps 80 feet away, I'd assumed the bird to be a vireo such as Warbling or perhaps Plumbeous. In saying this, I was influenced by the perceived size, color and shape. Looking at the photo, perhaps I misjudged the size? The bird was in an area of sand and gravel flow, a distance perhaps of 150 yards from the present river channel with its cottonwood canopy and riparian vegetation. The only near cover was a mix of salt cedar and small willows and some small brush. I've exhausted my ideas on this bird, having only come up with one idea that I will reserve so as to not influence your thoughts. I'd appreciate any ideas that anyone might come up with. Thanks. Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html _________________________________________________________________ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_062008 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Unknown Bird - San Pedro River, Dudleyville, AZ From: Keith Corliss <koolhand AT JUNO.COM> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:21:42 GMT If the tail was any longer I would lean toward LeConte's thrasher. The black eye, decurved dark bill and overall very pale appearance say LeConte's to me. Of course, what do I know, I live in North Dakota? Your estimate of size, however, throws that theory into the trash. K Corliss -- Matthew O'Brien wrote: http://home.comcast.net/~matthewobrien/Mystery%20Bird.jpg This bird was encountered on May 17, 2008 while walking along the dry floodplain of the San Pedro River at Dudleyville, Arizona. My only view of the bird was briefly in flight in front of me, flying from a low position on the left to the top of a salt cedar tree on the right. As I slowly approached, I was prepared to take a photo. I succeeded in taking the photo, but consequently did not observe the bird visually before I lowered my camera - as it quickly flew off. At the time, I presumed that the bird was not anything unusual, and was surprised when I reviewed the photo later. From the view that I had of the bird flying from perhaps 80 feet away, I'd assumed the bird to be a vireo such as Warbling or perhaps Plumbeous. In saying this, I was influenced by the perceived size, color and shape. Looking at the photo, perhaps I misjudged the size? The bird was in an area of sand and gravel flow, a distance perhaps of 150 yards from the present river channel with its cottonwood canopy and riparian vegetation. The only near cover was a mix of salt cedar and small willows and some small brush. I've exhausted my ideas on this bird, having only come up with one idea that I will reserve so as to not influence your thoughts. I'd appreciate any ideas that anyone might come up with. Thanks. Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Unknown Bird - San Pedro River, Dudleyville, AZ From: greatgrayowl AT AOL.COM Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 18:09:38 -0400 Hi all: ? What an odd bird.? However, the tail pattern looks like that of a Yellow Warbler.? The overall coloration certainly suggests to me an abnormal plumage and it is not to be trusted.? At least, that's my two cents' worth. ? Tony Leukering Brighton, CO ? -----Original Message----- From: Matthew O'Brien <matthewobrien AT COMCAST.NET> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 9:43 am Subject: [BIRDWG01] Unknown Bird - San Pedro River, Dudleyville, AZ http://home.comcast.net/~matthewobrien/Mystery%20Bird.jpg This bird was encountered on May 17, 2008 while walking along the dry floodplain of the San Pedro River at Dudleyville, Arizona. My only view of the bird was briefly in flight in front of me, flying from a low position on the left to the top of a salt cedar tree on the right. As I slowly approached, I was prepared to take a photo. I succeeded in taking the photo, but consequently did not observe the bird visually before I lowered my camera - as it quickly flew off. At the time, I presumed that the bird was not anything unusual, and was surprised when I reviewed the photo later. From the view that I had of the bird flying from perhaps 80 feet away, I'd assumed the bird to be a vireo such as Warbling or perhaps Plumbeous. In saying this, I was influenced by the perceived size, color and shape. Looking at the photo, perhaps I misjudged the size? The bird was in an area of sand and grave l flow, a distance perhaps of 150 yards from the present river channel with its cottonwood canopy and riparian vegetation. The only near cover was a mix of salt cedar and small willows and some small brush. I've exhausted my ideas on this bird, having only come up with one idea that I will reserve so as to not influence your thoughts. I'd appreciate any ideas that anyone might come up with. Thanks. Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Unknown Bird - San Pedro River, Dudleyville, AZ From: Matthew O'Brien <matthewobrien AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 06:43:19 -0700 http://home.comcast.net/~matthewobrien/Mystery%20Bird.jpg This bird was encountered on May 17, 2008 while walking along the dry floodplain of the San Pedro River at Dudleyville, Arizona. My only view of the bird was briefly in flight in front of me, flying from a low position on the left to the top of a salt cedar tree on the right. As I slowly approached, I was prepared to take a photo. I succeeded in taking the photo, but consequently did not observe the bird visually before I lowered my camera - as it quickly flew off. At the time, I presumed that the bird was not anything unusual, and was surprised when I reviewed the photo later. From the view that I had of the bird flying from perhaps 80 feet away, I'd assumed the bird to be a vireo such as Warbling or perhaps Plumbeous. In saying this, I was influenced by the perceived size, color and shape. Looking at the photo, perhaps I misjudged the size? The bird was in an area of sand and gravel flow, a distance perhaps of 150 yards from the present river channel with its cottonwood canopy and riparian vegetation. The only near cover was a mix of salt cedar and small willows and some small brush. I've exhausted my ideas on this bird, having only come up with one idea that I will reserve so as to not influence your thoughts. I'd appreciate any ideas that anyone might come up with. Thanks. Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Knots in 1st summer plumage From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 23:33:54 +0200 Pictures of 2 males and one female Greenland Knot can be seen here: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/waders-knots%205b.htm One of the males has reddish feathers on throat and underparts. There are not many Knots left in the Dutch delta and it is usually difficult to come close to them. Do any of you know if 2nd calendar year Knots reach the breeding grounds? I have seen pictures of grey winter plumaged Knots taken on the Siberian breeding grounds but I am not sure these were 2nd CY birds. Cheers, Norman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:46:08 -0700 Breeding Little Egrets were apparently discovered in Antigua this spring and a few possible hybrids were observed. Details are reported in a manuscript already submitted for publication. Floyd Hayes Hidden Valley Lake, CA Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: NM Gull-billed Tern pics From: borealowl <borealowl AT AOL.COM> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 04:25:03 -0600 I have posted flight shots of the Bitter Lake NWR Gull-billed Tern on my photo site at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jroldenettel Enjoy! Jerry R. Oldenettel Socorro, NM Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Fw: [BIRDWG01] Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:58:26 +0200 Hi Al, Just have a look here: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/egretta%20garzetta/indexegrettagarzetta1.htm and you know what we see in Europe. I have never seen birds such as your hybrids and not just for the plumes but more so for the yellow bare skin. cheers, Norman Alvaro Jaramillo wrote: I put this together ages ago, and have only now resolved an issue with my ISP which allowed me to upload the bunch. But at least with that Little Egret out east now, it is topical. There are various photos here I have taken of Little Egrets in the Caribbean, with a great deal of variation in the soft part colors depending on breeding state, and a good deal of bill size variation also. Finally, two photos of what could be hybrids. I would like to know if anyone has seen Snowy Egrets with elongated plumes like this, or conversely if Europeans have seen Little Egrets with �feathery� plumes, or the short Snowy like plumes that these birds show. Here are the photos: http://www.coastside.net/chucao/gulls/egrets.htm Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Rufous-tailed Robin at Saint Paul Island From: ghrosenberg AT COMCAST.NET Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:03:27 +0000 Hi all, If you haven't heard, there was a Rufous-tailed Robin at Saint Paul Island 8-9 June. Photos have been posted to Surfbirds.com (North America Stop the Press) by Cameron Cox and myself. Very fun bird, albeit difficult to see and photograph. http://surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery10 Enjoy, Gary -- ghrosenberg AT comcast.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. From: Harry Lehto <hlehto AT UTU.FI> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:25:23 +0300 Al, some birds with mixed characters from Trinidad in 1999 - scans are from the time one had to print the slides and then scan the prints. The original slides are still findable and now can be scanned directly. http://users.utu.fi/hlehto/photo/foreign/trinidad_photo.shtml Regards Harry ------------------------------------------------- Dr. Harry J Lehto Tuorla Observatory University of Turku V�is�l�ntie 20 FI-21500 Piikki� FINLAND hlehto(at)utu.fi Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. From: "Bruce H. Anderson" <Scizortail AT AOL.COM> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:14:13 EDT All. The statement that I quoted in our published Records Committee account about the Connecticut bird is incorrect. Reviewing that issue of NAS Field Notes ( 49:227-8), the SA and photo caption clearly state that the Connecticut bird was a "probable Snowy x Little Egret..." Thanks to Greg Hanisek for catching that error and clarifying that the Avian Records Committee of Connecticut considered it an abnormal Snowy Egret. Bruce Bruce H. Anderson Winter Park, Orange Co., Florida scizortail AT aol.com ************** Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. From: "Bruce H. Anderson" <Scizortail AT AOL.COM> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:09:24 EDT Al and all, We had a photo submitted to the Florida Ornithological Society Records Committee in 1995 thought by the photographer to have been taken in FL. The photographer ID'd the bird as a Little Egret since the bird had occipital plumes. Based on structure, including the recurved dorsal plumes, we did not accept the record. (it looks as though some of your photos show recurved plumes). Our published account reads in pertinent part: "A photographer, while showing slides to a friend, realized that the bird in one of the pictures appeared to exhibit characteristics of [Little Egret], especially 2 long occipital plumes. The photographer recalls that this slide was one in a series taken between 11–17 April 1993, in Pinellas County... The presence of a nuchial crest and recurved dorsal plumes, the [relative] length of these plumes, the colors depicted in the photograph of the lores and toes, the relative shortness of the legs, and the thickness of the bill lead members to believe that the bird is an aberrant Snowy Egret. One or 2 strikingly similar birds, referred to as "probable" Snowy Egret X Little Blue Heron hybrids were seen in Connecticut in spring 1995 (P.; NASFN 49:227-8). However, it seems unlikely that those birds, in alternate plumage, could be hybrids [of that parentage], and not exhibit some color characteristics of the darker species." If you are interested and want to see the photo, I may have a copy of the photo at my home (stored), but if not, there is a copy in our archives at the Florida State Museum. Andy Kratter is in Panama until July or so, but Tom Webber (twebber AT flmnh.ufl.edu), another curator, may be able to find it and send you a scan or copy. Take care. Bruce Bruce H. Anderson 2917 Scarlet Road Winter Park, FL 32792 407-671-3137 scizortail AT aol.com ************** Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. From: Mark Szantyr <birddog55 AT CHARTER.NET> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:13:57 -0400 I have photos of a bird from Hammonasset Beach State Park, CT from several years ago that was in nearly every aspect a Snowy Egret except that the bird showed two long head plumes coming through its shaggy mane. I will look for the slides and provide scanned images for anyone interested. We considered a hybrid but decided that it was likely an aberrant Snowy Egret. Mark Mark S.Szantyr 80 Bicknell Road Apt. 9 Ashford, CT 06278 USA Birddog55 AT Charter.net 860-487-9766 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alvaro Jaramillo To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. Steve Thanks for these points, although in this case context is important. In Antigua Little Egrets have started showing up in greater numbers recently. Last year and this year oddball looking birds (2-3 minimum) like the one�s I photographed were present. If individuals which look like this occur well away from areas with Little Egrets but at exceedingly low rates, chances are that the high rate of intermediate looking things on Antigua have a hybrid origin. So it is this context which I am using, assuming that birds like this are rare in the US, to postulate that these birds may be hybrids. It is reasonable, although untestable, as most of our hybrid theories are. Cheers Alvaro Alvaro Jaramillo chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of sgmlod AT AOL.COM Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 4:54 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. Greetings I have seen a bird in Baja, where a hybrid Little x Snowy Egret is rather unlikely, that showed two longer plumes as well as the shaggy plumes typical of a breeding plumage Snowy. The bird, to my eye, was otherwise rather typical for Snowy Egret. The two long plumes were pretty obvious on this bird in Baja, though maybe not as much so as on the Antigua bird. Sadly, no photos of the Baja bird. There have also been a few (3? 4?) birds seen in the northeastern US/southeastern Canada that have had two long plumes combined with o/w Snowy Egret-like shaggy plumes. I looked at photos of these birds, but Paul Buckley looked more closely than I. He felt (sorry if I am misquoting you Paul) that they showed little evidence of being anything other than aberrant Snowy Egrets, and I tend to agree. Certainly, the Baja bird was most unlikely a hybrid. So, I would think some evidence beyond a mixture of head plumes would be necessary to postulate that a given bird is a hybrid. Cheers Steven Mlodinow -----Original Message----- From: Alvaro Jaramillo To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [BIRDWG01] Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. All I put this together ages ago, and have only now resolved an issue with my ISP which allowed me to upload the bunch. But at least with that Little Egret out east now, it is topical. There are various photos here I have taken of Little Egrets in the Caribbean, with a great deal of variation in the soft part colors depending on breeding state, and a good deal of bill size variation also. Finally, two photos of what could be hybrids. I would like to know if anyone has seen Snowy Egrets with elongated plumes like this, or conversely if Europeans have seen Little Egrets with �feathery� plumes, or the short Snowy like plumes that these birds show. Here are the photos: http://www.coastside.net/chucao/gulls/egrets.htm cheers Al Alvaro Jaramillo chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1497 - Release Date: 6/11/2008 8:32 AM Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1497 - Release Date: 6/11/2008 8:32 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1497 - Release Date: 6/11/2008 8:32 AM Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao AT COASTSIDE.NET> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:00:39 -0700 Steve Thanks for these points, although in this case context is important. In Antigua Little Egrets have started showing up in greater numbers recently. Last year and this year oddball looking birds (2-3 minimum) like the one�s I photographed were present. If individuals which look like this occur well away from areas with Little Egrets but at exceedingly low rates, chances are that the high rate of intermediate looking things on Antigua have a hybrid origin. So it is this context which I am using, assuming that birds like this are rare in the US, to postulate that these birds may be hybrids. It is reasonable, although untestable, as most of our hybrid theories are. Cheers Alvaro Alvaro Jaramillo HYPERLINK "mailto:chucao AT coastside.net"chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide HYPERLINK "http://www.fieldguides.com"www.fieldguides.com _____ From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of sgmlod AT AOL.COM Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 4:54 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. Greetings I have seen a bird in Baja, where a hybrid Little x Snowy Egret is rather unlikely, that showed two longer plumes as well as the shaggy plumes typical of a breeding plumage Snowy. The bird, to my eye, was otherwise rather typical for Snowy Egret. The two long plumes were pretty obvious on this bird in Baja, though maybe not as much so as on the Antigua bird. Sadly, no photos of the Baja bird. There have also been a few (3? 4?) birds seen in the northeastern US/southeastern Canada that have had two long plumes combined with o/w Snowy Egret-like shaggy plumes. I looked at photos of these birds, but Paul Buckley looked more closely than I. He felt (sorry if I am misquoting you Paul) that they showed little evidence of being anything other than aberrant Snowy Egrets, and I tend to agree. Certainly, the Baja bird was most unlikely a hybrid. So, I would think some evidence beyond a mixture of head plumes would be necessary to postulate that a given bird is a hybrid. Cheers Steven Mlodinow -----Original Message----- From: Alvaro Jaramillo To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [BIRDWG01] Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. All I put this together ages ago, and have only now resolved an issue with my ISP which allowed me to upload the bunch. But at least with that Little Egret out east now, it is topical. There are various photos here I have taken of Little Egrets in the Caribbean, with a great deal of variation in the soft part colors depending on breeding state, and a good deal of bill size variation also. Finally, two photos of what could be hybrids. I would like to know if anyone has seen Snowy Egrets with elongated plumes like this, or conversely if Europeans have seen Little Egrets with �feathery� plumes, or the short Snowy like plumes that these birds show. Here are the photos: HYPERLINK "http://www.coastside.net/chucao/gulls/egrets.htm" \nhttp://www.coastside.net/chucao/gulls/egrets.htm cheers Al Alvaro Jaramillo HYPERLINK "mailto:chucao AT coastside.net"chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide HYPERLINK "http://www.fieldguides.com/" \nwww.fieldguides.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1497 - Release Date: 6/11/2008 8:32 AM Join or Leave BIRDWG01: HYPERLINK "http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01" \nhttp://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: HYPERLINK "http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html" \nhttp://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html _____ HYPERLINK "http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=aolcmp00050000000011" \nGet the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1497 - Release Date: 6/11/2008 8:32 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1497 - Release Date: 6/11/2008 8:32 AM Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. From: sgmlod AT AOL.COM Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:53:35 -0400 Greetings I have seen a bird in Baja, where a hybrid Little x Snowy Egret is rather unlikely, that showed two longer plumes as well as the shaggy plumes typical of a breeding plumage Snowy. The bird, to my eye, was otherwise rather typical for Snowy Egret. The two long plumes were pretty obvious on this bird in Baja, though maybe not as much so as on the Antigua bird. Sadly, no photos of the Baja bird. There have also been a few (3? 4?) birds seen in the northeastern US/southeastern Canada that have had two long plumes combined with o/w Snowy Egret-like shaggy plumes. I looked at photos of these birds, but Paul Buckley looked more closely than I. He felt (sorry if I am misquoting you Paul) that they showed little evidence of being anything other than aberrant Snowy Egrets, and I tend to agree. Certainly, the Baja bird was most unlikely a hybrid. So, I would think some evidence beyond a mixture of head plumes would be necessary to postulate that a given bird is  a hybrid. Cheers Steven Mlodinow -----Original Message----- From: Alvaro Jaramillo To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 4:41 pm Subject: [BIRDWG01] Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. All       I put this together ages ago, and have only now resolved an issue with my ISP which allowed me to upload the bunch. But at least with that Little Egret out east now, it is topical. There are various photos here I have taken of Little Egrets in the Caribbean, with a great deal of variation in the soft part colors depending on breeding state, and a good deal of bill size variation also. Finally, two photos of what could be hybrids. I would like to know if anyone has seen Snowy Egrets with elongated plumes like this, or conversely if Europeans have seen Little Egrets with “feathery” plumes, or the short Snowy like plumes that these birds show. Here are the photos:   http://www.coastside.net/chucao/gulls/egrets.htm   cheers   Al   Alvaro Jaramillo chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California   Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com   No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1497 - Release Date: 6/11/2008 8:32 AM Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Little Egrets - Caribbean photos and possible hybrids. From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao AT COASTSIDE.NET> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:41:00 -0700 All I put this together ages ago, and have only now resolved an issue with my ISP which allowed me to upload the bunch. But at least with that Little Egret out east now, it is topical. There are various photos here I have taken of Little Egrets in the Caribbean, with a great deal of variation in the soft part colors depending on breeding state, and a good deal of bill size variation also. Finally, two photos of what could be hybrids. I would like to know if anyone has seen Snowy Egrets with elongated plumes like this, or conversely if Europeans have seen Little Egrets with �feathery� plumes, or the short Snowy like plumes that these birds show. Here are the photos: HYPERLINK "http://www.coastside.net/chucao/gulls/egrets.htm"http://www.coastside.net/c hucao/gulls/egrets.htm cheers Al Alvaro Jaramillo HYPERLINK "mailto:chucao AT coastside.net"chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide HYPERLINK "http://www.fieldguides.com"www.fieldguides.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1497 - Release Date: 6/11/2008 8:32 AM Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Stills of Minnesota Mystery bird From: "Alt, Mark" <Mark.Alt AT BESTBUY.COM> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 13:01:48 -0500 I have captured 28 stills from my video - pretty bad quality, but here they are. 90% of respondents see it as a Vesper Sparrow, yet some ask if there might be some Dark Eyed Junco in there also, the black markings on the breast being the slate colored hood feature showing up. I have really enjoyed the dialogue, thanks for the input, and again I apologize for the picture quality...Let me know what you think. http://moumn.org/alt/bird-1.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-2.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-3.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-4.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-5.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-6.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-7.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-8.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-9.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-10.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-11.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-12.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-13.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-14.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-15.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-16.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-17.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-18.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-19.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-20.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-21.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-22.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-23.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-24.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-25.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-26.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-27.jpg http://moumn.org/alt/bird-28.jpg Mark Alt Lean Six Sigma Black Belt Project Resources Group Best Buy Co., Inc. P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail Mark Alt Lean Six Sigma Black Belt Project Resources Group Best Buy Co., Inc. P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Unkown Passerine in MN From: David Sibley <david_sibley AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:46:01 -0400 I'll add another vote for Vesper Sparrow. My first impression was leaning towards pipit, but the actions are wrong for a pipit (no walking and tail wagging) or longspur (which would be more shuffling, crouching). The face pattern (especially the bold dark mark below the eye) is perfect for Vesper Sparrow, and the wing pattern and tail pattern also fit. I'll dismiss the weird dark blotches on the breast as wet or excessively worn feathers, everything else points to Vesper. David Sibley Concord, MA Alt, Mark wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_dmGsVCcZg > > This is a link to a youtube video taken of a bird in Pine County, MN on > Friday, June 6, 2008 at 6:30 AM. We were on the edge of a large > 300+acres grassy field, populated with Eastern Meadowlarks and winnowing > Snipe. Grasshopper and Savannah Sparrows were heard signing. This bird > was found picking up grit along the road. It appeared to be the right > size for a longspur or pipit, it hoped and jumped. This video is not a > clear as my original, but the single most visible field mark was the > dark markings on its chest. It also had boldly contrasting white outer > tail rectrices. The facial pattern was clearly marked also, with a light > buffy color and dark markings, similar to Rising's Female Lapland > Longspur in his Sparrow book. When it flew, the wings appeared > nondescript, but the tail feathers were very evident. Its flight pattern > was swift and direct, was not fluttery at all. It gave no calls that I > heard. It flew deep into the grass field and was not reacquired. I > really do not know what to guess at, for it seems absurd that it most > closely resembles a female Lapland longspur (yet not exactly). > > Mark Alt > Lean Six Sigma Black Belt > Project Resources Group > Best Buy Co., Inc. > > P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html