SE Odonata

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SE Odonata

Updated on Thursday, February 2 at 09:46 AM EST
The most recently received Mail is at the top.

2 Feb ASSISTANCE REQUIRED FOR THE IDENTIFICATION OF ODONATA NAIADS [amad khan ]
1 Feb File - yahoo mail help.odt []
24 Jan Re: Slow on the uptake (larvae/geeky) [Chris Hill ]
24 Jan Re: Slow on the uptake (larvae/geeky) []
23 Jan Slow on the uptake (larvae/geeky) [Christopher Hill ]
23 Jan Florida Baskettail today ["Dan Irizarry" ]
20 Jan Re: Book ["SL Brown" ]
20 Jan Book [Alex Netherton ]
18 Jan Re: Paulson Book [Alex ]
18 Jan Re: Paulson Book [Marion Dobbs ]
18 Jan Re: Paulson Book [kjchilds ]
18 Jan RE: Paulson Book ["Michael Moore" ]
18 Jan Re: Paulson Book [Alex ]
16 Jan Ted Wilcox's NCWings site [Will Cook ]
13 Jan Re: Paulson Book [Marion Dobbs ]
13 Jan Re: Paulson Book ["SL Brown" ]
13 Jan RE: Paulson Book ["Michael Moore" ]
13 Jan Re: Paulson Book ["SL Brown" ]
13 Jan RE: Paulson Book ["Michael Moore" ]
13 Jan Re: Paulson Book ["SL Brown" ]
13 Jan Paulson Book [Chris Hill ]
13 Jan Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Chris Hill ]
13 Jan Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Tim Martin ]
13 Jan Re: dragonflies in Alabama was Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Tim Martin ]
11 Jan Re: Re: [se-insects] Species list ["SL Brown" ]
10 Jan Re: [se-insects] Species list [Marion Dobbs ]
10 Jan Re: Species list [Kyle Kittelberger ]
10 Jan Re: Species list [Bob Solem ]
10 Jan Re: Species list [Dennis Paulson ]
10 Jan RE: Species list ["Krotzer, Steve" ]
10 Jan Species list [Lois Stacey ]
10 Jan Re: dragonflies in Alabama was Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [John Abbott ]
9 Jan Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Joshua Rose ]
9 Jan Re: dragonflies in Alabama was Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Dennis Paulson ]
9 Jan Re: dragonflies in Alabama was Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Tim Martin ]
9 Jan Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Tim Martin ]
9 Jan Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Joshua Rose ]
9 Jan Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Tim Martin ]
9 Jan Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Dan Irizarry ]
9 Jan Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson []
8 Jan Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Tim Martin ]
8 Jan Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Chris Hill ]
8 Jan Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Chris Hill ]
8 Jan Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson [Tim Martin ]
07 Jan Variegated Meadowhawk, Florida, 18 December, photo ["Roy" ]
1 Jan File - yahoo mail help.odt []
30 Dec Re: Lots of Band-winged Dragonlets [Dennis Paulson ]
30 Dec Lots of Band-winged Dragonlets [Daniel Irizarry ]
25 Dec Good ode numbers in Fl [Dan Irizarry ]
22 Dec Fwd: Dragonflies exuviae [Will Cook ]
20 Dec Re: what's the deal with Yellow-sided skimmers? []
20 Dec Re: what's the deal with Yellow-sided skimmers? ["SL Brown" ]
20 Dec Re: what's the deal with Yellow-sided skimmers? [Joshua Rose ]
20 Dec what's the deal with Yellow-sided skimmers? []
15 Dec Re: Female damsel in November woods [Alex Netherton ]
15 Dec Re: Female damsel in November woods [kjchilds ]
15 Dec Re: Female damsel in November woods [Tim Martin ]
12 Dec Re: Variegated Meadowhawk [Dennis Paulson ]
12 Dec Re: Female damsel in November woods [Dennis Paulson ]
12 Dec Re: Female damsel in November woods [Tim Martin ]
12 Dec Re: Female damsel in November woods [Tim Martin ]
12 Dec Re: Female damsel in November woods [Dennis Paulson ]
12 Dec Re: Female damsel in November woods [Joshua Rose ]
12 Dec Re: Female damsel in November woods [Tim Martin ]
12 Dec Re: Variegated Meadowhawk [June Tveekrem ]
11 Dec Re: Variegated Meadowhawk [Chris Rasmussen ]
11 Dec Re: Larva - question [kjchilds ]
11 Dec Re: Larva - question - thanks! [Joshua Rose ]
11 Dec coastal Charleston county ["SL Brown" ]
11 Dec Re: Larva - question - thanks! [Alex Netherton ]
11 Dec Re: Larva - question [Alex Netherton ]
11 Dec Re: Larva - question [Alex Netherton ]
11 Dec Re: Variegated Meadowhawk [Dennis Paulson ]
11 Dec Variegated Meadowhawk ["corgone AT ymail.com" ]
11 Dec Re: Larva - question - thanks! []
11 Dec Re: Larva - question [Joshua Rose ]

Subject: ASSISTANCE REQUIRED FOR THE IDENTIFICATION OF ODONATA NAIADS
From: amad khan <amad922929 AT yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 06:34:53 -0800 (PST)

Dear Sir, I am Amad from Pakistan. I am working on species composition of Odonata naiads in comparison to water composition/quality in Potohar Region of Pakistan. Sir, in our country we have access to limmited resources over internet and because of this i am unable to download some valuable literature regarding cited research. Also in our country no such study has ever been carried out in the past. I therefore request you to help me out in this condition of literature shortage. I need identification keys with the help of which i can identify odonata naiads upto species level. kindly if possible send me any relevant literature in soft or hard form. I will be very thankful to you for this act of kindness. Your's Truely Amad Ud Din
Subject: File - yahoo mail help.odt
From: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com
Date: 1 Feb 2012 11:49:21 -0000

File : yahoo mail help.odt Description : Yahoo Mail Spam IMPORTANT!!! ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Slow on the uptake (larvae/geeky)
From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 07:24:07 -0500

On Jan 24, 2012, at 6:27 AM, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: > I didn't even know that courses existed on ode larvae, but what > impresses me most is your memory of details from two decades ago. But I forget the name of my son's best friend and the people I play tennis with weekly and what I did last week.... I'm really an making strides in the absent-minded professor thing. C ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 843-349-2567 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm
Subject: Re: Slow on the uptake (larvae/geeky)
From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 06:27:09 -0500 (EST)

I didn't even know that courses existed on ode larvae, but what impresses me most is your memory of details from two decades ago. Vicki DeLoach Woodstock, GA In a message dated 1/23/2012 8:00:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chill AT coastal.edu writes: Your spam filter has identified the following posting as having an extreme geek rating of 94.3, and you are advised to delete it immediately. Still here? OK. You may have a problem. I had an insight Friday, where annoying bits of information from a long period suddenly snapped into focus. In short, I think I identified a dragonfly nymph that had frustrated me. Eighteen years ago. Long before my interest in dragonflies took hold. I took an aquatic entomology course in graduate school, back in 1993 or so. The teacher was Guenter Schuster, at Eastern Kentucky University, and it was great. Among the many other aquatic insect taxa, we spent some time keying out odonates, to genus only*, using Merritt and Cummins, the big spiral bound book that had keys to every kind of aquatic insect. I remember being annoyed, vocal even, about the part of the key that was supposed to separate Libellulidae and Corduliidae. It just didn't seem to work. I had these big fat obvious looking larvae, and I would key them to Corduliidae, and Guenter would say "no, those are Libellulidae." And I'd go back to the key, and I still couldn't make it work, and the larvae, which we had collected from what was basically a watering trough in a pasture, were big and incredibly obvious looking - they had bold green and brown patterning, and spines, and there was nothing subtle about them.** If the stupid key couldn't handl e something that had obviously distinctive "field marks" on every part of it, what the heck use was it? The key worked for fly larvae, which are basically worms - why couldn't it work for this billboard of obviousness? *which is, as my wife the aquatic biologist points out, is as far as any sensible person would try to key them. **kind of the Northern Flicker of ode larvae, if that means something to you. OK, flash forward to this semester, when I have an eager undergrad working on a project on larval dragonflies and damselflies (cue demonic laughter on my part). I have him using the NEW Merritt and Cummins to start, with the Odonate chapter rewritten by the estimable Ken Tennessen. And I gave him a variety of things to sort through to get him trained up in using the microscope and key. Take them to family, then if possible take them to genus, then we'll see how far we can go. Long story short, he went swimmingly until he got to the libellulids and corduliids. The first two libellulids I gave him, two of the same species, Pantala flavescens, he keyed out one individual to each family. And then with my help he took another look, and actually, they both keyed out to Corduliidae. Despite the fact that they're unquestionably Libellulids. And then I looked at them (they're fat and patterned and spiny), and I thought back two decades, and realized that in a cattle watering t ank (I now know, didn't then) the overwhelmingly likely colonizer would be yes, Pantala. So now I know, all these years later, what I had back then, which is a new record for me in retrospective identifications (previous "best" was about 6 years, and I still had the specimen). And the key still doesn't work for them. C ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 843-349-2567 chill AT coastal.edu _http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm_ (http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm)
Subject: Slow on the uptake (larvae/geeky)
From: Christopher Hill <chill AT coastal.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:00:25 -0500

Your spam filter has identified the following posting as having an extreme geek rating of 94.3, and you are advised to delete it immediately. Still here? OK. You may have a problem. I had an insight Friday, where annoying bits of information from a long period suddenly snapped into focus. In short, I think I identified a dragonfly nymph that had frustrated me. Eighteen years ago. Long before my interest in dragonflies took hold. I took an aquatic entomology course in graduate school, back in 1993 or so. The teacher was Guenter Schuster, at Eastern Kentucky University, and it was great. Among the many other aquatic insect taxa, we spent some time keying out odonates, to genus only*, using Merritt and Cummins, the big spiral bound book that had keys to every kind of aquatic insect. I remember being annoyed, vocal even, about the part of the key that was supposed to separate Libellulidae and Corduliidae. It just didn't seem to work. I had these big fat obvious looking larvae, and I would key them to Corduliidae, and Guenter would say "no, those are Libellulidae." And I'd go back to the key, and I still couldn't make it work, and the larvae, which we had collected from what was basically a watering trough in a pasture, were big and incredibly obvious looking - they had bold green and brown patterning, and spines, and there was nothing subtle about them.** If the stupid key couldn't handle something that had obviously distinctive "field marks" on every part of it, what the heck use was it? The key worked for fly larvae, which are basically worms - why couldn't it work for this billboard of obviousness? *which is, as my wife the aquatic biologist points out, is as far as any sensible person would try to key them. **kind of the Northern Flicker of ode larvae, if that means something to you. OK, flash forward to this semester, when I have an eager undergrad working on a project on larval dragonflies and damselflies (cue demonic laughter on my part). I have him using the NEW Merritt and Cummins to start, with the Odonate chapter rewritten by the estimable Ken Tennessen. And I gave him a variety of things to sort through to get him trained up in using the microscope and key. Take them to family, then if possible take them to genus, then we'll see how far we can go. Long story short, he went swimmingly until he got to the libellulids and corduliids. The first two libellulids I gave him, two of the same species, Pantala flavescens, he keyed out one individual to each family. And then with my help he took another look, and actually, they both keyed out to Corduliidae. Despite the fact that they're unquestionably Libellulids. And then I looked at them (they're fat and patterned and spiny), and I thought back two decades, and realized that in a cattle watering tank (I now know, didn't then) the overwhelmingly likely colonizer would be yes, Pantala. So now I know, all these years later, what I had back then, which is a new record for me in retrospective identifications (previous "best" was about 6 years, and I still had the specimen). And the key still doesn't work for them. C ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 843-349-2567 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm ------------------------------------
Subject: Florida Baskettail today
From: "Dan Irizarry" <rdirizarry AT gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:25:53 -0500

Hey everyone! I netted myself a lifer ode today, Florida Baskettail - Ipetheca stella. While the local celebrity bird, the Fork-tailed Flycatcher, was on the far side of the pond, I walked the shore's edge looking for odes and leps. I found Common Buckeyes, Ceraunus Blues, and loads of Bella Moths. Ode-wise, I found Citrine Forktail (a mature male and an immature orange specimen), Rambur's Forktails, Common Green Darner, Prince Baskettail, and Red Saddlebags. Then I noticed one that wasn't perching at all, and that made a very direct, and repeating, patrol pattern. I netted it, and I think I've concluded properly that it's a Florida Baskettail. Great way to start oding this year! Images have been resized to small. Should anyone be interested in larger sizes, feel free to contact me. They'll also be available on my flickr page shortly. http://www.flickr.com/photos/danirizarry Dan Irizarry Bradenton, FL
Subject: Re: Book
From: "SL Brown" <ictinia AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:09:49 -0500

Alex wrote: Isn't it great? I love being able to have a shelf full of books in my phone, which fits in a pocket and goes everywhere with me!!! Sharon L. Brown ------------------------------------
Subject: Book
From: Alex Netherton <blueridgediscovery AT charter.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:52:43 -0500

Folks, I downloaded Kindle app for all three of our computers (desktop, laptop and netbook) and even got the app on my Blackberry and downloaded the book ($10.00 at Amazon.com), and am delighted. It is extremely nice, with tack sharp photos, and tons of information. I have had people look pitying at me for carrying "Dragonflies Through Binoculars", though I like it, but this book is full of all kinds of stuff, and is a very good text for an Entomology graduate level course, or especially a grad level course on Odonates. I especially like the coverage of Damselflies, as no other book has ever done that so thoroughly. I will probably spring for the paperback edition come spring (no pun intended, but there it is), as it might be more convenient, however, I think about a device (tablet or netbook) that can hold a number of books, like Odonates, birds, herps, plants (I have Weakley's flora on the netbook) and anything else of interest, and condense everything into one device. "Kirk to Enterprise. Set the transporter to the Great Dismal Swamp!" "Captain, the engines will never stand it!" Alex Netherton http://blueridgediscovery.com ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Paulson Book
From: Alex <blueridgediscovery AT charter.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:54:12 -0500

Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic. Alex Netherton Blue Ridge Discovery On 1/18/2012 10:19 PM, Marion Dobbs wrote: > As Mike and Ken say, once you buy the book you own it and it is kept > in your "archive" on Amazon's server and can be downloaded to your > various devices. I have both of Dennis's books in Kindle format. I can > read them on my Kindle, not ideal because it's not the Fire color > model; but I have them on my phone for use in the field; I also have > them on my laptop and my desktop computers. > > This last is more useful than you might immediately think. It's great > to open up a guide side by side with the photos you are editing, for > instance. Much easier than trying to keep a book open on your desk! > Then, of course, you can adjust text size, brightness, and other > parameters very easily. And you can search on any term you'd like and > bookmark pages. It's miraculous! > > > Marion Dobbs > 9 Bridlewood Lane > Rome GA 30165 > ecurlew AT mac.com > http://www.mamomi.net > http://mamomi.smugmug.com/ > > "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one > another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be > heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. > > > On Jan 18, 2012, at 9:18 PM, Alex wrote: > >> There is also a Kindle app for PC's,which I downloaded not long ago >> on my little Acer netbook. It is a handy app, and you can get a >> number of really good books for it for free (if SOPA and PIPA don't >> pass) that are in public domain. >> A netbook or tablet would be a perfect portable device for odonate >> watching. I just wonder if a book like that would be restricted to >> one computer, one installation (for instance, if I have to reinstall >> Windows or get a new computer), or other unwieldy restrictions that >> might make it not really worth getting. >> >> Alex Netherton >> Blue Ridge Discovery >> >> On 1/13/2012 4:47 PM, Michael Moore wrote: >>> >>> Another quick tip if you own a smartphone with the free Kindle app. >>> Both of Dennis’s odonate field guides are available in Kindle >>> editions. I bought the Kindle edition (about $10) of the eastern >>> guide and now have a full color, complete copy of it available >>> anytime on my iPhone. You can zoom in on the photos and use all the >>> search functions of the iPhone too. How cool is that! >>> >>> Mike Moore >>> >>> Newark, DE >>> >>> *From:*se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Hill >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2012 4:25 PM >>> *To:* se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com List >>> *Subject:* [se-odonata] Paulson Book >>> >>> A few days after others on this list, I got my pre-ordered Paulson >>> Eastern Odonate guide, and I'm enjoying reading through the >>> introductory sections. >>> >>> I think the feature that's most attracted my attention thus far is the >>> range maps. I come out of a bird-watching background, and odonate >>> ranges and range maps are so different from most birds. Some field >>> guides to odonates use a broad brush, sometimes sweeping across whole >>> states to include areas that pretty much correspond to where a species >>> *could* be. Others have opted to color in only those counties where a >>> species has actually been documented, which results in quite a >>> different map. What the Paulson guide does is between the two >>> extremes - coloring in areas where a given species has been >>> documented, with some judgement used to extend or interpolate a bit, >>> and isolated records indicated by dots. And since it's Dennis >>> Paulson, I know every little curve was given a lot of research and >>> thought. >>> >>> What's interesting about odonate ranges is all the gaps. Some of the >>> maps look like a jellyfish that messed with a firecracker - tentacles >>> blown off to land at quite a distance from the rather distressed >>> body. Just as did the original dot-maps, these range maps raise all >>> sorts of interesting questions about why some of these bugs are found >>> here and not there, or there and not here. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ************************************************************************ >>> Christopher E. Hill >>> Biology Department >>> Coastal Carolina University >>> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >>> 843-349-2567 >>> chill AT coastal.edu >>> http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm >>> >> >> >
Subject: Re: Paulson Book
From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:23:05 -0500

As Mike and Ken say, once you buy the book you own it and it is kept in your "archive" on Amazon's server and can be downloaded to your various devices. I have both of Dennis's books in Kindle format. I can read them on my Kindle, not ideal because it's not the Fire color model; but I have them on my phone for use in the field; I also have them on my laptop and my desktop computers. This last is more useful than you might immediately think. It's great to open up a guide side by side with the photos you are editing, for instance. Much easier than trying to keep a book open on your desk! Then, of course, you can adjust text size, brightness, and other parameters very easily. And you can search on any term you'd like and bookmark pages. You can highlight, make notes, and look words up online in dictionary, Google, or Wikipedia (well, not on Wikipedia for another hour or two.) It's miraculous! Marion Dobbs 9 Bridlewood Lane Rome GA 30165 ecurlew AT mac.com http://www.mamomi.net http://mamomi.smugmug.com/ "Scientific truth goes through three states: first, people say it conflicts with the Bible; next, they say it has been discovered before; lastly, they say they always believed it."_ Louis Agassiz On Jan 18, 2012, at 9:18 PM, Alex wrote: > There is also a Kindle app for PC's,which I downloaded not long ago on my little Acer netbook. It is a handy app, and you can get a number of really good books for it for free (if SOPA and PIPA don't pass) that are in public domain. > A netbook or tablet would be a perfect portable device for odonate watching. I just wonder if a book like that would be restricted to one computer, one installation (for instance, if I have to reinstall Windows or get a new computer), or other unwieldy restrictions that might make it not really worth getting. > Alex Netherton > Blue Ridge Discovery > > On 1/13/2012 4:47 PM, Michael Moore wrote: >> >> >> Another quick tip if you own a smartphone with the free Kindle app. Both of Dennis’s odonate field guides are available in Kindle editions. I bought the Kindle edition (about $10) of the eastern guide and now have a full color, complete copy of it available anytime on my iPhone. You can zoom in on the photos and use all the search functions of the iPhone too. How cool is that! >> >> >> >> Mike Moore >> >> Newark, DE >> >> >> >> From: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hill >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 4:25 PM >> To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com List >> Subject: [se-odonata] Paulson Book >> >> >> >> >> >> A few days after others on this list, I got my pre-ordered Paulson >> Eastern Odonate guide, and I'm enjoying reading through the >> introductory sections. >> >> I think the feature that's most attracted my attention thus far is the >> range maps. I come out of a bird-watching background, and odonate >> ranges and range maps are so different from most birds. Some field >> guides to odonates use a broad brush, sometimes sweeping across whole >> states to include areas that pretty much correspond to where a species >> *could* be. Others have opted to color in only those counties where a >> species has actually been documented, which results in quite a >> different map. What the Paulson guide does is between the two >> extremes - coloring in areas where a given species has been >> documented, with some judgement used to extend or interpolate a bit, >> and isolated records indicated by dots. And since it's Dennis >> Paulson, I know every little curve was given a lot of research and >> thought. >> >> What's interesting about odonate ranges is all the gaps. Some of the >> maps look like a jellyfish that messed with a firecracker - tentacles >> blown off to land at quite a distance from the rather distressed >> body. Just as did the original dot-maps, these range maps raise all >> sorts of interesting questions about why some of these bugs are found >> here and not there, or there and not here. >> >> Chris >> >> ************************************************************************ >> Christopher E. Hill >> Biology Department >> Coastal Carolina University >> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >> 843-349-2567 >> chill AT coastal.edu >> http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm >> >> > >
Subject: Re: Paulson Book
From: kjchilds <kjchilds AT yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 18:52:18 -0800 (PST)

Your Kindle library should be stored with Amazon. I've been able to view my wife's Kindle books on my pc. It's all tied to your Amazon account. Â Ken Childs Henderson, TN Chester County http://www.finishflagfarms.com ________________________________ From: Alex To: Michael Moore Cc: 'Chris Hill' ; se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Paulson Book Â There is also a Kindle app for PC's,which I downloaded not long ago on my little Acer netbook. It is a handy app, and you can get a number of really good books for it for free (if SOPA and PIPA don't pass) that are in public domain. A netbook or tablet would be a perfect portable device for odonate watching. I just wonder if a book like that would be restricted to one computer, one installation (for instance, if I have to reinstall Windows or get a new computer), or other unwieldy restrictions that might make it not really worth getting. Alex Netherton Blue Ridge Discovery On 1/13/2012 4:47 PM, Michael Moore wrote: Â >Another quick tip if you own a smartphone with the free Kindle app.Â Both of Dennisâ€™s odonate field guides are available in Kindle editions.Â I bought the Kindle edition (about $10) of the eastern guide and now have a full color, complete copy of it available anytime on my iPhone.Â You can zoom in on the photos and use all the search functions of the iPhone too.Â How cool is that! >Â >Mike Moore >Newark, DE >Â >From:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hill >Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 4:25 PM >To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com List >Subject: [se-odonata] Paulson Book >Â >Â >A few days after others on this list, I got my pre-ordered Paulson >Eastern Odonate guide, and I'm enjoying reading through the >introductory sections. > >I think the feature that's most attracted my attention thus far is the >range maps. I come out of a bird-watching background, and odonate >ranges and range maps are so different from most birds. Some field >guides to odonates use a broad brush, sometimes sweeping across whole >states to include areas that pretty much correspond to where a species >*could* be. Others have opted to color in only those counties where a >species has actually been documented, which results in quite a >different map. What the Paulson guide does is between the two >extremes - coloring in areas where a given species has been >documented, with some judgement used to extend or interpolate a bit, >and isolated records indicated by dots. And since it's Dennis >Paulson, I know every little curve was given a lot of research and >thought. > >What's interesting about odonate ranges is all the gaps. Some of the >maps look like a jellyfish that messed with a firecracker - tentacles >blown off to land at quite a distance from the rather distressed >body. Just as did the original dot-maps, these range maps raise all >sorts of interesting questions about why some of these bugs are found >here and not there, or there and not here. > >Chris > >************************************************************************ >Christopher E. Hill >Biology Department >Coastal Carolina University >Conway, SC 29528-1954 >843-349-2567 >chill AT coastal.edu >http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm
Subject: RE: Paulson Book
From: "Michael Moore" <mcmoore32 AT gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:45:21 -0500

I believe once you buy a Kindle book, you own it and can read it on any device. I often switch back on forth reading books on my actual Kindle and on the Kindle app on my iPhone. The books are kept on Amazon's servers and you register your device or app to your account and then you can download any books you own to any device. You are limited to six devices or apps registered to your account. Your device or app can only be logged into one account at a time however to limit sharing of books, but you can deregister it and register it to another account as long as the account has fewer than six registrations. Mike Moore From: Alex [mailto:blueridgediscovery AT charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 9:18 PM To: Michael Moore Cc: 'Chris Hill'; se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Paulson Book There is also a Kindle app for PC's,which I downloaded not long ago on my little Acer netbook. It is a handy app, and you can get a number of really good books for it for free (if SOPA and PIPA don't pass) that are in public domain. A netbook or tablet would be a perfect portable device for odonate watching. I just wonder if a book like that would be restricted to one computer, one installation (for instance, if I have to reinstall Windows or get a new computer), or other unwieldy restrictions that might make it not really worth getting. Alex Netherton Blue Ridge Discovery On 1/13/2012 4:47 PM, Michael Moore wrote: Another quick tip if you own a smartphone with the free Kindle app. Both of Dennis's odonate field guides are available in Kindle editions. I bought the Kindle edition (about $10) of the eastern guide and now have a full color, complete copy of it available anytime on my iPhone. You can zoom in on the photos and use all the search functions of the iPhone too. How cool is that! Mike Moore Newark, DE From: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hill Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 4:25 PM To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com List Subject: [se-odonata] Paulson Book A few days after others on this list, I got my pre-ordered Paulson Eastern Odonate guide, and I'm enjoying reading through the introductory sections. I think the feature that's most attracted my attention thus far is the range maps. I come out of a bird-watching background, and odonate ranges and range maps are so different from most birds. Some field guides to odonates use a broad brush, sometimes sweeping across whole states to include areas that pretty much correspond to where a species *could* be. Others have opted to color in only those counties where a species has actually been documented, which results in quite a different map. What the Paulson guide does is between the two extremes - coloring in areas where a given species has been documented, with some judgement used to extend or interpolate a bit, and isolated records indicated by dots. And since it's Dennis Paulson, I know every little curve was given a lot of research and thought. What's interesting about odonate ranges is all the gaps. Some of the maps look like a jellyfish that messed with a firecracker - tentacles blown off to land at quite a distance from the rather distressed body. Just as did the original dot-maps, these range maps raise all sorts of interesting questions about why some of these bugs are found here and not there, or there and not here. Chris ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 843-349-2567 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm
Subject: Re: Paulson Book
From: Alex <blueridgediscovery AT charter.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:18:17 -0500

There is also a Kindle app for PC's,which I downloaded not long ago on my little Acer netbook. It is a handy app, and you can get a number of really good books for it for free (if SOPA and PIPA don't pass) that are in public domain. A netbook or tablet would be a perfect portable device for odonate watching. I just wonder if a book like that would be restricted to one computer, one installation (for instance, if I have to reinstall Windows or get a new computer), or other unwieldy restrictions that might make it not really worth getting. Alex Netherton Blue Ridge Discovery On 1/13/2012 4:47 PM, Michael Moore wrote: > > Another quick tip if you own a smartphone with the free Kindle app. > Both of Dennis's odonate field guides are available in Kindle > editions. I bought the Kindle edition (about $10) of the eastern > guide and now have a full color, complete copy of it available anytime > on my iPhone. You can zoom in on the photos and use all the search > functions of the iPhone too. How cool is that! > > Mike Moore > > Newark, DE > > *From:*se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] > *On Behalf Of *Chris Hill > *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2012 4:25 PM > *To:* se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com List > *Subject:* [se-odonata] Paulson Book > > A few days after others on this list, I got my pre-ordered Paulson > Eastern Odonate guide, and I'm enjoying reading through the > introductory sections. > > I think the feature that's most attracted my attention thus far is the > range maps. I come out of a bird-watching background, and odonate > ranges and range maps are so different from most birds. Some field > guides to odonates use a broad brush, sometimes sweeping across whole > states to include areas that pretty much correspond to where a species > *could* be. Others have opted to color in only those counties where a > species has actually been documented, which results in quite a > different map. What the Paulson guide does is between the two > extremes - coloring in areas where a given species has been > documented, with some judgement used to extend or interpolate a bit, > and isolated records indicated by dots. And since it's Dennis > Paulson, I know every little curve was given a lot of research and > thought. > > What's interesting about odonate ranges is all the gaps. Some of the > maps look like a jellyfish that messed with a firecracker - tentacles > blown off to land at quite a distance from the rather distressed > body. Just as did the original dot-maps, these range maps raise all > sorts of interesting questions about why some of these bugs are found > here and not there, or there and not here. > > Chris > > ************************************************************************ > Christopher E. Hill > Biology Department > Coastal Carolina University > Conway, SC 29528-1954 > 843-349-2567 > chill AT coastal.edu > http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm > >
Subject: Ted Wilcox's NCWings site
From: Will Cook <cwcook AT duke.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 13:17:54 -0500

I noticed that Ted Wilcox's NCWings site, formerly at ncwings.com, had disappeared and I didn't want to see this wonderful photo archive to be lost, so offered to host it on my site. Ted uploaded his entire site this morning. Here's the new URL: http://ncwings.carolinanature.com/ There are separate subsections for dragonflies and damselflies. One highlight is this excellent series of shots of Rusty Snaketail, the only documentation for this species in NC, as far as Harry LeGrand knows: http://ncwings.carolinanature.com/dragonflies/clubtails/rusty-snaketail.html Enjoy! -- Will Cook - Durham, NC http://www.carolinanature.com ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Paulson Book
From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:11:57 -0500

It is VERY cool. Works great on my Droid, also. Marion Marion Dobbs 9 Bridlewood Lane Rome GA 30165 ecurlew AT mac.com http://www.mamomi.net http://mamomi.smugmug.com/ On Jan 13, 2012, at 4:47 PM, Michael Moore wrote: > > Another quick tip if you own a smartphone with the free Kindle app. Both of Dennis’s odonate field guides are available in Kindle editions. I bought the Kindle edition (about $10) of the eastern guide and now have a full color, complete copy of it available anytime on my iPhone. You can zoom in on the photos and use all the search functions of the iPhone too. How cool is that! > > > > Mike Moore > > Newark, DE > > > > From: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hill > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 4:25 PM > To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com List > Subject: [se-odonata] Paulson Book > > > > > > A few days after others on this list, I got my pre-ordered Paulson > Eastern Odonate guide, and I'm enjoying reading through the > introductory sections. > > I think the feature that's most attracted my attention thus far is the > range maps. I come out of a bird-watching background, and odonate > ranges and range maps are so different from most birds. Some field > guides to odonates use a broad brush, sometimes sweeping across whole > states to include areas that pretty much correspond to where a species > *could* be. Others have opted to color in only those counties where a > species has actually been documented, which results in quite a > different map. What the Paulson guide does is between the two > extremes - coloring in areas where a given species has been > documented, with some judgement used to extend or interpolate a bit, > and isolated records indicated by dots. And since it's Dennis > Paulson, I know every little curve was given a lot of research and > thought. > > What's interesting about odonate ranges is all the gaps. Some of the > maps look like a jellyfish that messed with a firecracker - tentacles > blown off to land at quite a distance from the rather distressed > body. Just as did the original dot-maps, these range maps raise all > sorts of interesting questions about why some of these bugs are found > here and not there, or there and not here. > > Chris > > ************************************************************************ > Christopher E. Hill > Biology Department > Coastal Carolina University > Conway, SC 29528-1954 > 843-349-2567 > chill AT coastal.edu > http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm > > > >
Subject: Re: Paulson Book
From: "SL Brown" <ictinia AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:12:04 -0500

Operator malfunction - :} - the Kindle app for Android is a hold-to-zoom instead of the pinch and drag zoom for typical Android apps. So . . . I'm going to go buy the Kindle version now and am VERY happy about this. In addition to books on my phone being in the field every time, I am happy for alternatives to paper! Sharon L. Brown
Subject: RE: Paulson Book
From: "Michael Moore" <mcmoore32 AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:09:25 -0500

I just flipped through it and all the photos I tried zoomed. On the iPhone you pinch to zoom and it works great. I am not familiar with Android. Mike Moore Newark, DE From: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SL Brown Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 6:03 PM To: SE Odonata Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Paulson Book You can zoom in on the photos Do the photos in the front of the book zoom? They do not in the sample sent to my Kindle app on Android, nor do they zoom on my husband's Kindle Fire . . . still . . . I'd have bought the Kindle version of Dennis's western guide for my phone if I'd known this prior to our motorhome trip last fall. Ah well. It's nice to see e-books in color! Sharon L. Brown
Subject: Re: Paulson Book
From: "SL Brown" <ictinia AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:03:10 -0500

You can zoom in on the photos Do the photos in the front of the book zoom? They do not in the sample sent to my Kindle app on Android, nor do they zoom on my husband's Kindle Fire . . . still . . . I'd have bought the Kindle version of Dennis's western guide for my phone if I'd known this prior to our motorhome trip last fall. Ah well. It's nice to see e-books in color! Sharon L. Brown
Subject: RE: Paulson Book
From: "Michael Moore" <mcmoore32 AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:47:28 -0500

Another quick tip if you own a smartphone with the free Kindle app. Both of Dennis's odonate field guides are available in Kindle editions. I bought the Kindle edition (about $10) of the eastern guide and now have a full color, complete copy of it available anytime on my iPhone. You can zoom in on the photos and use all the search functions of the iPhone too. How cool is that! Mike Moore Newark, DE From: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Hill Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 4:25 PM To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com List Subject: [se-odonata] Paulson Book A few days after others on this list, I got my pre-ordered Paulson Eastern Odonate guide, and I'm enjoying reading through the introductory sections. I think the feature that's most attracted my attention thus far is the range maps. I come out of a bird-watching background, and odonate ranges and range maps are so different from most birds. Some field guides to odonates use a broad brush, sometimes sweeping across whole states to include areas that pretty much correspond to where a species *could* be. Others have opted to color in only those counties where a species has actually been documented, which results in quite a different map. What the Paulson guide does is between the two extremes - coloring in areas where a given species has been documented, with some judgement used to extend or interpolate a bit, and isolated records indicated by dots. And since it's Dennis Paulson, I know every little curve was given a lot of research and thought. What's interesting about odonate ranges is all the gaps. Some of the maps look like a jellyfish that messed with a firecracker - tentacles blown off to land at quite a distance from the rather distressed body. Just as did the original dot-maps, these range maps raise all sorts of interesting questions about why some of these bugs are found here and not there, or there and not here. Chris ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 843-349-2567 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm
Subject: Re: Paulson Book
From: "SL Brown" <ictinia AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:45:47 -0500

Chris, I have noticed this with the maps in Dennis's wonderful western guide . . . there are certainly a lot of questions remaining! Sharon L. Brown ------------------------------------
Subject: Paulson Book
From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:24:43 -0500

A few days after others on this list, I got my pre-ordered Paulson Eastern Odonate guide, and I'm enjoying reading through the introductory sections. I think the feature that's most attracted my attention thus far is the range maps. I come out of a bird-watching background, and odonate ranges and range maps are so different from most birds. Some field guides to odonates use a broad brush, sometimes sweeping across whole states to include areas that pretty much correspond to where a species *could* be. Others have opted to color in only those counties where a species has actually been documented, which results in quite a different map. What the Paulson guide does is between the two extremes - coloring in areas where a given species has been documented, with some judgement used to extend or interpolate a bit, and isolated records indicated by dots. And since it's Dennis Paulson, I know every little curve was given a lot of research and thought. What's interesting about odonate ranges is all the gaps. Some of the maps look like a jellyfish that messed with a firecracker - tentacles blown off to land at quite a distance from the rather distressed body. Just as did the original dot-maps, these range maps raise all sorts of interesting questions about why some of these bugs are found here and not there, or there and not here. Chris ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 843-349-2567 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 11:05:35 -0500

Hi Again Tim, Probably more than half of the records in Odonata Central, in most areas at least, came from the Dot Map Project. Nick Donnelly collected, collated, evaluated, edited and published (in the Bulletin of American Odonataology, in 2004) all the records he could assemble of odonates. And all those records, the backbone of the OC database, are entered simply as "occurred in county," with the location being an arbitrary central point in the county, and without specifics of collector and date. Any more recent additions by persons like yourself will have more detailed data. So the Dot Map records are great for finding out what might be around, but you'll have to figure out yourself where to look. Or actually, since most of the Dot Map records from your county probably came from the 1995 publication others have mentioned, you could look in that publication for the details. Be sure to check the surrounding county lists for ideas of what else might be around. Chris On Jan 13, 2012, at 10:52 AM, Tim Martin wrote: > Hello Joshua: > > I had spent some time on the OC reading about the natural history of > various species and seeing what species were reported from the > counties I spend time in. When I first saw the map for my county, > Madison, I was excited at first but soon saw that all the species I > clicked on were centered in the exact same spot, clearly just some > random or central spot to indicate that they were found in the > county, not where in the county. > > Later, when I added my few records to Odanata Central, I made sure > to indicate as best I could on the map where exactly I photographed > the species. I wish I had I thought to look to see if that is the > case for all the odes reported, thanks for the reminder and the tip. > > Thanks for the tip also about Lancet. I didn't really look for any > dragonflies before June last year. I went to a few places in April > and May. For various personal reasons I wasn't able to get out much, > but the few times I did go I didn't see a whole lot so I had gotten > discouraged. I will definitely get out there in more places and on > more trips this coming season. > > Thanks again and thanks everyone for the great advice, links, and > tips. > > Tim > > --- On Mon, 1/9/12, Joshua Rose wrote: > > From: Joshua Rose > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by > Dennis Paulson > To: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com List" > Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 9:24 PM > > > Hi Tim, > > Definitely second Dennis' tip on Odonata Central. From the main > page, click on "Maps" to get here: > http://www.odonatacentral.org/index.php/MapAction.windowed > > In the window marked "Taxa" you can begin typing the scientific name > of an odonate, and if you do not type too quickly, the website will > provide you a drop-down list of the species that fit what you have > typed; for example, if you type "gomphus e" it will give you two > choices, G. exilis (Lancet Clubtail) or G. externus (Plains). You > can also narrow the Location field to a particular state or county. > > The map that results will likely include a bunch of blue dots which > are fairly useless in terms of relocating the species, as they come > from the nationwide county dot-map project which included no > location details more specific than the county (and also no dates). > However, the dots of other colors often include specific locations > that you might be able to visit seeking the species in question. For > example, I see that Winston County has a record of Lancet Clubtail > from "Beech Creek AT FR 245", and Tuscaloosa County had the same > species from "S Sandy Creek AT FR 706". If you play around with it > you can probably pick up a few more leads. Click on the dot, then > click on "View OC #... details" and look for the "location notes" > field. > > With regards to Lancet Clubtail specifically, you can probably find > that one anyway, even without Odonata Central's help. In the spring > it is fairly common and widespread and not terribly picky as to its > habitat, far less so than most clubtail species. But you do have to > find it before summer really sets in; all of the Odonata Central > records from Alabama that have dates were taken in May or the first > half of June. > > On Jan 9, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > > > > > > So what was the location, Falling Water Creek, like? Did you have > to wade? Was it on proteced land and did they allow the use of nets? > > Do not remember the protected status. As I recall, Bill Haley pulled > over to the side of the road and we walked down to the creek, then > rock-hopped across the water out to the dragons. It was one of those > clear rocky streams that you mentioned earlier. Wading probably > would have been easier but I don't think I had the right shoes with > me on that trip.... > > Have fun, > > Josh > > Joshua Rose, Ph.D. > Amherst, MA > opihi AT mindspring.com > http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 > http://www.facebook.com/opihi > > < /DIV> > > ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 843-349-2567 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm
Subject: Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Tim Martin <tf_martn AT bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 07:52:07 -0800 (PST)

Hello Joshua: Â I had spent some time on the OC reading about the natural history of various species and seeing what species were reported from the counties I spend time in. When I first saw the map for my county, Madison, I was excited at first but soon saw that all the species I clicked on were centered in the exact same spot, clearly just some random or central spot to indicate that they were found in the county, not where in the county. Â Later, when I added my few records to Odanata Central, I made sure to indicate as best I could on the map where exactly I photographed the species. I wish I had I thought to look to see if that is the case for all the odes reported, thanks for the reminder and the tip. Â Thanks for the tip also about Lancet. I didn't really look for any dragonflies before June last year. I went to a few places in April and May. For various personal reasons I wasn't able to get out much, but the few times I did go I didn't see a whole lot so I had gotten discouraged. I will definitely get out there in more places and on more trips this coming season. Â Thanks again and thanks everyone for the great advice, links, and tips. Â Tim --- On Mon, 1/9/12, Joshua Rose wrote: From: Joshua Rose Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson To: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com List" Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 9:24 PM Â Hi Tim, Definitely second Dennis' tip on Odonata Central. From the main page, click on "Maps" to get here: http://www.odonatacentral.org/index.php/MapAction.windowed In the window marked "Taxa" you can begin typing the scientific name of an odonate, and if you do not type too quickly, the website will provide you a drop-down list of the species that fit what you have typed; for example, if you type "gomphus e" it will give you two choices, G. exilis (Lancet Clubtail) or G. externus (Plains). You can also narrow the Location field to a particular state or county. The map that results will likely include a bunch of blue dots which are fairly useless in terms of relocating the species, as they come from the nationwide county dot-map project which included no location details more specific than the county (and also no dates). However, the dots of other colors often include specific locations that you might be able to visit seeking the species in question. For example, I see that Winston County has a record of Lancet Clubtail from "Beech Creek AT FR 245", and Tuscaloosa County had the same species from "S Sandy Creek AT FR 706". If you play around with it you can probably pick up a few more leads. Click on the dot, then click on "View OC #... details" and look for the "location notes" field. With regards to Lancet Clubtail specifically, you can probably find that one anyway, even without Odonata Central's help. In the spring it is fairly common and widespread and not terribly picky as to its habitat, far less so than most clubtail species. But you do have to find it before summer really sets in; all of the Odonata Central records from Alabama that have dates were taken in May or the first half of June. On Jan 9, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > > > So what was the location, Falling Water Creek, like? Did you have to wade? Was it on proteced land and did they allow the use of nets? Do not remember the protected status. As I recall, Bill Haley pulled over to the side of the road and we walked down to the creek, then rock-hopped across the water out to the dragons. It was one of those clear rocky streams that you mentioned earlier. Wading probably would have been easier but I don't think I had the right shoes with me on that trip.... Have fun, Josh Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA opihi AT mindspring.com http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 http://www.facebook.com/opihi
Subject: Re: dragonflies in Alabama was Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Tim Martin <tf_martn AT bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 07:36:11 -0800 (PST)

Thanks John and Dennis for the tip, I appreciate it very much! Â Tim --- On Tue, 1/10/12, John Abbott wrote: From: John Abbott Subject: Re: [se-odonata] dragonflies in Alabama was Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson To: "Dennis Paulson" Cc: "Tim Martin" , "SE-Odonata List" Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012, 9:06 AM Â Tim, The Bulletin of American Odonatology issue that Dennis is referring to is also available on OdonataCentral - http://www.odonatacentral.org/index.php/ArticleAction.get/article_id/1613 Cheers, John --Â John C. AbbottÂ http://www.abbottnaturephotography.com http://www.flickr.com/abbottnaturephotography http://www.facebook.com/AbbottNaturePhotography http://jcabbottnaturephotography.blogspot.com/ http://www.odonatacentral.orgÂ On Jan 9, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Dennis Paulson wrote: Â Tim, A better source for odonate records is Odonata Central. I don't know whether the USGS site is being kept up to date or not, although its map looks quite similar to the one in Odonata Central. They both may reflect the paper on Odonata of Alabama by Tennessen, Harper & Krotzer in 1995, in which 33 counties are listed for Lancet Clubtail. That publication, a Bulletin of American Odonatology, might be available, but I'm not sure. If not, perhaps someone has it as a pdf that they can send you. Dennis On Jan 9, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Tim Martin wrote: Â Hey Vicki, Â This site: http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/211.htm Doesn't show Lancet Clubtail in my county or the two I spend my time in (the counties are Madison, Limestone, and Morgan). It is in Jackson county but I don't know from the map where the species can be found. Â http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/221.htm Shows Rapids Clubtail, interesting, but I don't know where to look for it. Â The list of odonata species is a long one, I need to get out there starting in the spring. Â http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/toc.htm Â Tim Â --- On Mon, 1/9/12, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson To: tf_martn AT bellsouth.net Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 12:49 PM Tim - if you are ever over this way, I'd love to take you out and show you the odes in my area.Â Pennants are my favorites esp. Halloween's.Â Some years they're harder to find than other years but never rare.Â Lancet clubtails are usually on the ground or grass, or on a sunny rock by water.Â When you finally see a Dragonhunter you will be shocked at how big they are ;-)Â What all did you get this season?Â Vicki Â Â In a message dated 1/9/2012 12:03:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tf_martn AT bellsouth.net writes: Hello Vicki Â Thanks for the tip! I shall read up on Lancet Clubtails in preparation for the coming season. Though I added quite a few to my life list in 2011, I have yet to add either a pennat or Dragonhunter, so I am eager to see and photograph those as well. I know of more places around here to try now, I am going to try those places more often, and I am going to also start earlier in the season. I also still hope to make it to a DSA meeting and a trip to the Smokies in late spring. Â Tim --- On Mon, 1/9/12, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson To: tf_martn AT bellsouth.net Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 5:40 AM Tim - I live next-door in Georgia.Â Lancet clubtails should be common for you as they are very common here.Â 95% of clubtails I find are Lancet's.Â As summer rolls in and Lancet's fade, there are two big clubtails that you'll eventually come across:Â Dragonhunter and Black-shouldered spinyleg.Â Although I've found both in my backyard, their numbers seem to increase in the foothills and mountains.Â If you're ever over here in the North Georgia mountains, Vogel State Park is pretty reliable for Dragonhunter.Â They are so impressive it's worth the drive.Â And if you're a pennant fan like me, Vogel is covered in pennants later in the summer. Â Vicki DeLoach Woodstock, GA Â Â In a message dated 1/8/2012 1:28:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tf_martn AT bellsouth.net writes: Â Hello all, I got my copy last week via UPS from Amazon. Wow! It is a gorgeous book, I love all the photos. Lots of great natural history/behavorial notes too, I enjoyed reading those for several entries. Love the range maps too, always great to have those. I really like also that there is an extensive sectoin before the field guide species entries start that I can just sit down and read. I love all the photos and diagrams of odoanta anatomy, something I do need to learn more, and loved the photos of predation on and from odes as well on pages 15 and 16 (great phtotos!) Very very happy with it, my only problem is that there are no odes out yet, as I immediately wanted to go find some (though I have been giving thought as mentioned in some of the posts on the list about trying to find immature odes in water). Â This being the most comprehensive book I have every bought on dragonflies and damselflies and also the one that covers the biggest region, when thumbing through the species entries there were lots of species I had either never heard of or only had seen a more abbreviated treatment of elsewhere (not a complaint against my other books mind you, as they were either for beginnners and hitting only the ones those starting out most likely might see, or were regional, or simply couldn't match this one for thoroughness and newly documented species). Â I saw that many species have some very limited ranges, at least in the east, and that notes were made that some species may in fact be spreading and/or that more field work needed to be done. The Rainpool Spreawing (page 63) is one such species. Never heard of it before, looks like it might be spreading. Mostly Gulf Coast but one of the splotches on the rain map is much further inland in Mississippi. The page before had a tropical species, the Antlliean Spreadwing; interesting to read about that species, reminds me of how in the birding world many Caribbean birds are found at their northenmost extent in the Florida Keys. Â The Snaketails (page 294 and on) are not a group I have seen yet. I was suprirsed at how limited in distribution some were (one species seems largely confined to central Tennessee and a tiny bit of north Alabama - I will have to see if I can see that one, the Acuminate Snaketail) and others are mostly northerly in distribution. I guess I always thought that the South has any insects the north would have and then some, but it surprises me that several species are pretty much only found in the north. Â The Clubtails, another group sadly I have yet to see, are gorgeous insects! Clearly I need to get out there and find some. Any advice? Â The Ringed Emerald (346) and Hudsonian Emerald (347)....wow. Those insects have some remote distrubtions. The latter species especially, much of its range includes areas of the world with very few people and are remote and hard to reach places. Whitehouse's Emerald - page 350 - what a remote trek that must have been to work with that species. That part of Canada is not exactly densely inhabitated. Love to hear stories about working with these remote northern species. Â I guess one of the problems I run into is that many species need streams or clear running rivers, often with sandy or rocky bottoms. Those are in short supply where I live. Ponds, lakes, large muddy rivers, small forest pools, temporary ponds, duck ponds, smaller muddy creeks, marshes with emergent vegetation, tupelo swamps, all those I have, but not any clear fast water. Â But in closing, fantastic book, I am very glad I bought it. I plan to read the introduction and just browse through the species accounts, something I have found helpful with birding; if you saw the illustrations and photos of a bird enough at home, that just might make that crucial difference one day out in the field. Â Tim ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net
Subject: Re: Re: [se-insects] Species list
From: "SL Brown" <ictinia AT gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:08:51 -0500

Thanks, Marion! I will definitely check it out. I love my HTC Thunderbolt (Android) - and used iBird Pro from SC to Utah and back with great success - far better than lugging books around & so easy to ID birds with . . . now I wish there were similar dragonfly, butterfly, wildflower & tree apps. I have the Audubon apps, but they are clunky to use and not very helpful . . . a lot like their older field guides. So that's at the top of my wishlist . . . insect & plant apps for Android similar to iBirdPro! Sharon L. Brown ------------------------------------------------------------ I've only begun to investigate this, but there is a new app for Droid called Nature Lister which sounds very powerful and comes with a choice of three species lists, dragonflies among them.
Subject: Re: [se-insects] Species list
From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 19:34:53 -0500

I've only begun to investigate this, but there is a new app for Droid called Nature Lister which sounds very powerful and comes with a choice of three species lists, dragonflies among them. Nature Lister can be used as a stand alone application or as a front end to any desktop PC based Natural History records system that can accept the files exported from it. Nature Lister comes complete with three species lists of your own choice, choose from country lists for birds (whole world), mammals (whole world), butterflies (North America and Europe), dragonflies (North America and Europe), moths (British Isles) and plants (British Isles). Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com "Do what we can, summer will have its flies."_Ralph Waldo Emerson "The frog does not drink up the pond in which he lives."_Native American proverb On Jan 10, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Lois Stacey wrote: > I use a bird listing app on my Ipod to keep trip lists and love it. I > have contacted the software company asking if they had any intention of > expanding the software and creating an app for keeping track of > butterflies or dragonflies as a trip list as well. > > Their answer was that a list could be created that could be downloaded > to the app, and would possibly be made available on their server. I > have a list of all North American butterflies but I don't know where to > find such a list for dragonflies. I can take these lists and create a > downloadable file from them. > > Do any of you know where I can get a list of all North American dragonflies? > > -- > Lois Stacey > North Augusta, SC (Aiken Cnty) > www.augustaaikenaudubon.org > http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v299/croakie/Moths/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/48760528 AT N02/ > >
Subject: Re: Species list
From: Kyle Kittelberger <kkturtledude AT yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 15:09:01 -0800 (PST)

I have a word document for my dragonfly and damselfly checklist. Every time I see a new species, I just fill in the box on the computer. Though it is not fully up to date, I try to update it every now and then, adding in new entries. Also, my list includes Hawaiian dragonflies and damselflies, and it appears that it includes some unnamed North American species that the Puget Sound checklist does not include. Â Kyle Kittelberger ________________________________ From: "Krotzer, Steve" To: Lois Stacey ; dragonflies ; "se-insects AT yahoogroups.com" Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:12 PM Subject: RE: [se-odonata] Species list Â Hey Lois, Â This is the list I use. Itâ€™s updated through June 2011. You could check with Dennis Paulson to see if there are any more recent changes. Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â North American Odonata - University of Puget Sound Â SteveK Â R. Stephen Krotzer rskrotze AT southernco.com From:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lois Stacey Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:25 PM To: dragonflies; se-insects AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [se-odonata] Species list Â Â I use a bird listing app on my Ipod to keep trip lists and love it. I have contacted the software company asking if they had any intention of expanding the software and creating an app for keeping track of butterflies or dragonflies as a trip list as well. Their answer was that a list could be created that could be downloaded to the app, and would possibly be made available on their server. I have a list of all North American butterflies but I don't know where to find such a list for dragonflies. I can take these lists and create a downloadable file from them. Do any of you know where I can get a list of all North American dragonflies? -- Lois Stacey North Augusta, SC (Aiken Cnty) www.augustaaikenaudubon.org http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v299/croakie/Moths/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/48760528 AT N02/
Subject: Re: Species list
From: Bob Solem <odenata AT msn.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:29:06 -0500

And the list at the website is really helpful. Every time there is a new list, we print it and substitute it for the old one. Bob& Jo Solem odenata AT msn.com Laurel, MD 20723 On 1/10/2012 4:38 PM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > > I just sent such a list to Lois. When I get back to the Slater Museum, > late this month (I'm on the way to Jamaica now), I will place a > downloadable list in Word there comparable to the list that you see at > this website. But you can also print the list at the website. The list > is up to date. > > > Dennis > > > On Jan 10, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Krotzer, Steve wrote: > >> >> Hey Lois, >> >> This is the list I use. It’s updated through June 2011. You could >> check with Dennis Paulson to see if there are any more recent changes. >> >> North American Odonata - University of Puget Sound >> >> >> SteveK >> >> R. Stephen Krotzer >> rskrotze AT southernco.com >> >> *From:*se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Lois Stacey >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:25 PM >> *To:* dragonflies; se-insects AT yahoogroups.com >> >> *Subject:* [se-odonata] Species list >> >> I use a bird listing app on my Ipod to keep trip lists and love it. I >> have contacted the software company asking if they had any intention of >> expanding the software and creating an app for keeping track of >> butterflies or dragonflies as a trip list as well. >> >> Their answer was that a list could be created that could be downloaded >> to the app, and would possibly be made available on their server. I >> have a list of all North American butterflies but I don't know where to >> find such a list for dragonflies. I can take these lists and create a >> downloadable file from them. >> >> Do any of you know where I can get a list of all North American >> dragonflies? >> >> -- >> Lois Stacey >> North Augusta, SC (Aiken Cnty) >> www.augustaaikenaudubon.org >> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v299/croakie/Moths/ >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/48760528 AT N02/ >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > >
Subject: Re: Species list
From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 13:38:28 -0800

I just sent such a list to Lois. When I get back to the Slater Museum, late this month (I'm on the way to Jamaica now), I will place a downloadable list in Word there comparable to the list that you see at this website. But you can also print the list at the website. The list is up to date. Dennis On Jan 10, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Krotzer, Steve wrote: > > Hey Lois, > > > > This is the list I use. It’s updated through June 2011. You could check with Dennis Paulson to see if there are any more recent changes. > > > > North American Odonata - University of Puget Sound > > > > SteveK > > > > R. Stephen Krotzer > rskrotze AT southernco.com > > From: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lois Stacey > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:25 PM > To: dragonflies; se-insects AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [se-odonata] Species list > > > > > > I use a bird listing app on my Ipod to keep trip lists and love it. I > have contacted the software company asking if they had any intention of > expanding the software and creating an app for keeping track of > butterflies or dragonflies as a trip list as well. > > Their answer was that a list could be created that could be downloaded > to the app, and would possibly be made available on their server. I > have a list of all North American butterflies but I don't know where to > find such a list for dragonflies. I can take these lists and create a > downloadable file from them. > > Do any of you know where I can get a list of all North American dragonflies? > > -- > Lois Stacey > North Augusta, SC (Aiken Cnty) > www.augustaaikenaudubon.org > http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v299/croakie/Moths/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/48760528 AT N02/ > > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net
Subject: RE: Species list
From: "Krotzer, Steve" <rskrotze AT southernco.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 15:12:05 -0600

Hey Lois, This is the list I use. It's updated through June 2011. You could check with Dennis Paulson to see if there are any more recent changes. North American Odonata - University of Puget Sound SteveK R. Stephen Krotzer rskrotze AT southernco.com From: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lois Stacey Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:25 PM To: dragonflies; se-insects AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [se-odonata] Species list I use a bird listing app on my Ipod to keep trip lists and love it. I have contacted the software company asking if they had any intention of expanding the software and creating an app for keeping track of butterflies or dragonflies as a trip list as well. Their answer was that a list could be created that could be downloaded to the app, and would possibly be made available on their server. I have a list of all North American butterflies but I don't know where to find such a list for dragonflies. I can take these lists and create a downloadable file from them. Do any of you know where I can get a list of all North American dragonflies? -- Lois Stacey North Augusta, SC (Aiken Cnty) www.augustaaikenaudubon.org http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v299/croakie/Moths/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/48760528 AT N02/
Subject: Species list
From: Lois Stacey <croakie AT comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 15:24:42 -0500

I use a bird listing app on my Ipod to keep trip lists and love it. I have contacted the software company asking if they had any intention of expanding the software and creating an app for keeping track of butterflies or dragonflies as a trip list as well. Their answer was that a list could be created that could be downloaded to the app, and would possibly be made available on their server. I have a list of all North American butterflies but I don't know where to find such a list for dragonflies. I can take these lists and create a downloadable file from them. Do any of you know where I can get a list of all North American dragonflies? -- Lois Stacey North Augusta, SC (Aiken Cnty) www.augustaaikenaudubon.org http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v299/croakie/Moths/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/48760528 AT N02/ ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: dragonflies in Alabama was Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: John Abbott <jcabbott13 AT gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 09:06:52 -0600

Tim, The Bulletin of American Odonatology issue that Dennis is referring to is also available on OdonataCentral - http://www.odonatacentral.org/index.php/ArticleAction.get/article_id/1613 Cheers, John -- John C. Abbott http://www.abbottnaturephotography.com http://www.flickr.com/abbottnaturephotography http://www.facebook.com/AbbottNaturePhotography http://jcabbottnaturephotography.blogspot.com/ http://www.odonatacentral.org On Jan 9, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > Tim, > > > A better source for odonate records is Odonata Central. I don't know whether the USGS site is being kept up to date or not, although its map looks quite similar to the one in Odonata Central. They both may reflect the paper on Odonata of Alabama by Tennessen, Harper & Krotzer in 1995, in which 33 counties are listed for Lancet Clubtail. That publication, a Bulletin of American Odonatology, might be available, but I'm not sure. If not, perhaps someone has it as a pdf that they can send you. > > Dennis > > On Jan 9, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > >> >> Hey Vicki, >> >> This site: >> http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/211.htm >> Doesn't show Lancet Clubtail in my county or the two I spend my time in (the counties are Madison, Limestone, and Morgan). It is in Jackson county but I don't know from the map where the species can be found. >> >> http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/221.htm >> Shows Rapids Clubtail, interesting, but I don't know where to look for it. >> >> The list of odonata species is a long one, I need to get out there starting in the spring. >> >> http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/toc.htm >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> --- On Mon, 1/9/12, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: >> >> From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson >> To: tf_martn AT bellsouth.net >> Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 12:49 PM >> >> Tim - if you are ever over this way, I'd love to take you out and show you the odes in my area. Pennants are my favorites esp. Halloween's. Some years they're harder to find than other years but never rare. Lancet clubtails are usually on the ground or grass, or on a sunny rock by water. When you finally see a Dragonhunter you will be shocked at how big they are ;-) What all did you get this season? Vicki >> >> >> In a message dated 1/9/2012 12:03:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tf_martn AT bellsouth.net writes: >> Hello Vicki >> >> Thanks for the tip! I shall read up on Lancet Clubtails in preparation for the coming season. Though I added quite a few to my life list in 2011, I have yet to add either a pennat or Dragonhunter, so I am eager to see and photograph those as well. I know of more places around here to try now, I am going to try those places more often, and I am going to also start earlier in the season. I also still hope to make it to a DSA meeting and a trip to the Smokies in late spring. >> >> Tim >> >> --- On Mon, 1/9/12, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: >> >> From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson >> To: tf_martn AT bellsouth.net >> Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com >> Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 5:40 AM >> >> Tim - I live next-door in Georgia. Lancet clubtails should be common for you as they are very common here. 95% of clubtails I find are Lancet's. As summer rolls in and Lancet's fade, there are two big clubtails that you'll eventually come across: Dragonhunter and Black-shouldered spinyleg. Although I've found both in my backyard, their numbers seem to increase in the foothills and mountains. If you're ever over here in the North Georgia mountains, Vogel State Park is pretty reliable for Dragonhunter. They are so impressive it's worth the drive. And if you're a pennant fan like me, Vogel is covered in pennants later in the summer. >> >> Vicki DeLoach >> Woodstock, GA >> >> >> In a message dated 1/8/2012 1:28:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tf_martn AT bellsouth.net writes: >> >> Hello all, I got my copy last week via UPS from Amazon. Wow! It is a gorgeous book, I love all the photos. Lots of great natural history/behavorial notes too, I enjoyed reading those for several entries. Love the range maps too, always great to have those. I really like also that there is an extensive sectoin before the field guide species entries start that I can just sit down and read. I love all the photos and diagrams of odoanta anatomy, something I do need to learn more, and loved the photos of predation on and from odes as well on pages 15 and 16 (great phtotos!) Very very happy with it, my only problem is that there are no odes out yet, as I immediately wanted to go find some (though I have been giving thought as mentioned in some of the posts on the list about trying to find immature odes in water). >> >> This being the most comprehensive book I have every bought on dragonflies and damselflies and also the one that covers the biggest region, when thumbing through the species entries there were lots of species I had either never heard of or only had seen a more abbreviated treatment of elsewhere (not a complaint against my other books mind you, as they were either for beginnners and hitting only the ones those starting out most likely might see, or were regional, or simply couldn't match this one for thoroughness and newly documented species). >> >> I saw that many species have some very limited ranges, at least in the east, and that notes were made that some species may in fact be spreading and/or that more field work needed to be done. The Rainpool Spreawing (page 63) is one such species. Never heard of it before, looks like it might be spreading. Mostly Gulf Coast but one of the splotches on the rain map is much further inland in Mississippi. The page before had a tropical species, the Antlliean Spreadwing; interesting to read about that species, reminds me of how in the birding world many Caribbean birds are found at their northenmost extent in the Florida Keys. >> >> The Snaketails (page 294 and on) are not a group I have seen yet. I was suprirsed at how limited in distribution some were (one species seems largely confined to central Tennessee and a tiny bit of north Alabama - I will have to see if I can see that one, the Acuminate Snaketail) and others are mostly northerly in distribution. I guess I always thought that the South has any insects the north would have and then some, but it surprises me that several species are pretty much only found in the north. >> >> The Clubtails, another group sadly I have yet to see, are gorgeous insects! Clearly I need to get out there and find some. Any advice? >> >> The Ringed Emerald (346) and Hudsonian Emerald (347)....wow. Those insects have some remote distrubtions. The latter species especially, much of its range includes areas of the world with very few people and are remote and hard to reach places. Whitehouse's Emerald - page 350 - what a remote trek that must have been to work with that species. That part of Canada is not exactly densely inhabitated. Love to hear stories about working with these remote northern species. >> >> I guess one of the problems I run into is that many species need streams or clear running rivers, often with sandy or rocky bottoms. Those are in short supply where I live. Ponds, lakes, large muddy rivers, small forest pools, temporary ponds, duck ponds, smaller muddy creeks, marshes with emergent vegetation, tupelo swamps, all those I have, but not any clear fast water. >> >> But in closing, fantastic book, I am very glad I bought it. I plan to read the introduction and just browse through the species accounts, something I have found helpful with birding; if you saw the illustrations and photos of a bird enough at home, that just might make that crucial difference one day out in the field. >> >> Tim >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > > >
Subject: Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Joshua Rose <opihi AT mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 22:24:06 -0500

Hi Tim, Definitely second Dennis' tip on Odonata Central. From the main page, click on "Maps" to get here: http://www.odonatacentral.org/index.php/MapAction.windowed In the window marked "Taxa" you can begin typing the scientific name of an odonate, and if you do not type too quickly, the website will provide you a drop-down list of the species that fit what you have typed; for example, if you type "gomphus e" it will give you two choices, G. exilis (Lancet Clubtail) or G. externus (Plains). You can also narrow the Location field to a particular state or county. The map that results will likely include a bunch of blue dots which are fairly useless in terms of relocating the species, as they come from the nationwide county dot-map project which included no location details more specific than the county (and also no dates). However, the dots of other colors often include specific locations that you might be able to visit seeking the species in question. For example, I see that Winston County has a record of Lancet Clubtail from "Beech Creek AT FR 245", and Tuscaloosa County had the same species from "S Sandy Creek AT FR 706". If you play around with it you can probably pick up a few more leads. Click on the dot, then click on "View OC #... details" and look for the "location notes" field. With regards to Lancet Clubtail specifically, you can probably find that one anyway, even without Odonata Central's help. In the spring it is fairly common and widespread and not terribly picky as to its habitat, far less so than most clubtail species. But you do have to find it before summer really sets in; all of the Odonata Central records from Alabama that have dates were taken in May or the first half of June. On Jan 9, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > > > So what was the location, Falling Water Creek, like? Did you have to wade? Was it on proteced land and did they allow the use of nets? Do not remember the protected status. As I recall, Bill Haley pulled over to the side of the road and we walked down to the creek, then rock-hopped across the water out to the dragons. It was one of those clear rocky streams that you mentioned earlier. Wading probably would have been easier but I don't think I had the right shoes with me on that trip.... Have fun, Josh Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA opihi AT mindspring.com http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 http://www.facebook.com/opihi ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: dragonflies in Alabama was Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 15:26:50 -0800

Tim, A better source for odonate records is Odonata Central. I don't know whether the USGS site is being kept up to date or not, although its map looks quite similar to the one in Odonata Central. They both may reflect the paper on Odonata of Alabama by Tennessen, Harper & Krotzer in 1995, in which 33 counties are listed for Lancet Clubtail. That publication, a Bulletin of American Odonatology, might be available, but I'm not sure. If not, perhaps someone has it as a pdf that they can send you. Dennis On Jan 9, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > Hey Vicki, > > This site: > http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/211.htm > Doesn't show Lancet Clubtail in my county or the two I spend my time in (the counties are Madison, Limestone, and Morgan). It is in Jackson county but I don't know from the map where the species can be found. > > http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/221.htm > Shows Rapids Clubtail, interesting, but I don't know where to look for it. > > The list of odonata species is a long one, I need to get out there starting in the spring. > > http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/toc.htm > > Tim > > > > --- On Mon, 1/9/12, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: > > From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson > To: tf_martn AT bellsouth.net > Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 12:49 PM > > Tim - if you are ever over this way, I'd love to take you out and show you the odes in my area. Pennants are my favorites esp. Halloween's. Some years they're harder to find than other years but never rare. Lancet clubtails are usually on the ground or grass, or on a sunny rock by water. When you finally see a Dragonhunter you will be shocked at how big they are ;-) What all did you get this season? Vicki > > > In a message dated 1/9/2012 12:03:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tf_martn AT bellsouth.net writes: > Hello Vicki > > Thanks for the tip! I shall read up on Lancet Clubtails in preparation for the coming season. Though I added quite a few to my life list in 2011, I have yet to add either a pennat or Dragonhunter, so I am eager to see and photograph those as well. I know of more places around here to try now, I am going to try those places more often, and I am going to also start earlier in the season. I also still hope to make it to a DSA meeting and a trip to the Smokies in late spring. > > Tim > > --- On Mon, 1/9/12, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: > > From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson > To: tf_martn AT bellsouth.net > Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 5:40 AM > > Tim - I live next-door in Georgia. Lancet clubtails should be common for you as they are very common here. 95% of clubtails I find are Lancet's. As summer rolls in and Lancet's fade, there are two big clubtails that you'll eventually come across: Dragonhunter and Black-shouldered spinyleg. Although I've found both in my backyard, their numbers seem to increase in the foothills and mountains. If you're ever over here in the North Georgia mountains, Vogel State Park is pretty reliable for Dragonhunter. They are so impressive it's worth the drive. And if you're a pennant fan like me, Vogel is covered in pennants later in the summer. > > Vicki DeLoach > Woodstock, GA > > > In a message dated 1/8/2012 1:28:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tf_martn AT bellsouth.net writes: > > Hello all, I got my copy last week via UPS from Amazon. Wow! It is a gorgeous book, I love all the photos. Lots of great natural history/behavorial notes too, I enjoyed reading those for several entries. Love the range maps too, always great to have those. I really like also that there is an extensive sectoin before the field guide species entries start that I can just sit down and read. I love all the photos and diagrams of odoanta anatomy, something I do need to learn more, and loved the photos of predation on and from odes as well on pages 15 and 16 (great phtotos!) Very very happy with it, my only problem is that there are no odes out yet, as I immediately wanted to go find some (though I have been giving thought as mentioned in some of the posts on the list about trying to find immature odes in water). > > This being the most comprehensive book I have every bought on dragonflies and damselflies and also the one that covers the biggest region, when thumbing through the species entries there were lots of species I had either never heard of or only had seen a more abbreviated treatment of elsewhere (not a complaint against my other books mind you, as they were either for beginnners and hitting only the ones those starting out most likely might see, or were regional, or simply couldn't match this one for thoroughness and newly documented species). > > I saw that many species have some very limited ranges, at least in the east, and that notes were made that some species may in fact be spreading and/or that more field work needed to be done. The Rainpool Spreawing (page 63) is one such species. Never heard of it before, looks like it might be spreading. Mostly Gulf Coast but one of the splotches on the rain map is much further inland in Mississippi. The page before had a tropical species, the Antlliean Spreadwing; interesting to read about that species, reminds me of how in the birding world many Caribbean birds are found at their northenmost extent in the Florida Keys. > > The Snaketails (page 294 and on) are not a group I have seen yet. I was suprirsed at how limited in distribution some were (one species seems largely confined to central Tennessee and a tiny bit of north Alabama - I will have to see if I can see that one, the Acuminate Snaketail) and others are mostly northerly in distribution. I guess I always thought that the South has any insects the north would have and then some, but it surprises me that several species are pretty much only found in the north. > > The Clubtails, another group sadly I have yet to see, are gorgeous insects! Clearly I need to get out there and find some. Any advice? > > The Ringed Emerald (346) and Hudsonian Emerald (347)....wow. Those insects have some remote distrubtions. The latter species especially, much of its range includes areas of the world with very few people and are remote and hard to reach places. Whitehouse's Emerald - page 350 - what a remote trek that must have been to work with that species. That part of Canada is not exactly densely inhabitated. Love to hear stories about working with these remote northern species. > > I guess one of the problems I run into is that many species need streams or clear running rivers, often with sandy or rocky bottoms. Those are in short supply where I live. Ponds, lakes, large muddy rivers, small forest pools, temporary ponds, duck ponds, smaller muddy creeks, marshes with emergent vegetation, tupelo swamps, all those I have, but not any clear fast water. > > But in closing, fantastic book, I am very glad I bought it. I plan to read the introduction and just browse through the species accounts, something I have found helpful with birding; if you saw the illustrations and photos of a bird enough at home, that just might make that crucial difference one day out in the field. > > Tim > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net
Subject: Re: dragonflies in Alabama was Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Tim Martin <tf_martn AT bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 15:07:15 -0800 (PST)

Hey Vicki, Â This site: http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/211.htm Doesn't show Lancet Clubtail in my county or the two I spend my time in (the counties are Madison, Limestone, and Morgan). It is in Jackson county but I don't know from the map where the species can be found. Â http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/221.htm Shows Rapids Clubtail, interesting, but I don't know where to look for it. Â The list of odonata species is a long one, I need to get out there starting in the spring. Â http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/insects/dfly/al/toc.htm Â Tim Â --- On Mon, 1/9/12, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson To: tf_martn AT bellsouth.net Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 12:49 PM Tim - if you are ever over this way, I'd love to take you out and show you the odes in my area.Â Pennants are my favorites esp. Halloween's.Â Some years they're harder to find than other years but never rare.Â Lancet clubtails are usually on the ground or grass, or on a sunny rock by water.Â When you finally see a Dragonhunter you will be shocked at how big they are ;-)Â What all did you get this season?Â Vicki Â Â In a message dated 1/9/2012 12:03:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tf_martn AT bellsouth.net writes: Hello Vicki Â Thanks for the tip! I shall read up on Lancet Clubtails in preparation for the coming season. Though I added quite a few to my life list in 2011, I have yet to add either a pennat or Dragonhunter, so I am eager to see and photograph those as well. I know of more places around here to try now, I am going to try those places more often, and I am going to also start earlier in the season. I also still hope to make it to a DSA meeting and a trip to the Smokies in late spring. Â Tim --- On Mon, 1/9/12, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson To: tf_martn AT bellsouth.net Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 5:40 AM Tim - I live next-door in Georgia.Â Lancet clubtails should be common for you as they are very common here.Â 95% of clubtails I find are Lancet's.Â As summer rolls in and Lancet's fade, there are two big clubtails that you'll eventually come across:Â Dragonhunter and Black-shouldered spinyleg.Â Although I've found both in my backyard, their numbers seem to increase in the foothills and mountains.Â If you're ever over here in the North Georgia mountains, Vogel State Park is pretty reliable for Dragonhunter.Â They are so impressive it's worth the drive.Â And if you're a pennant fan like me, Vogel is covered in pennants later in the summer. Â Vicki DeLoach Woodstock, GA Â Â In a message dated 1/8/2012 1:28:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tf_martn AT bellsouth.net writes: Â Hello all, I got my copy last week via UPS from Amazon. Wow! It is a gorgeous book, I love all the photos. Lots of great natural history/behavorial notes too, I enjoyed reading those for several entries. Love the range maps too, always great to have those. I really like also that there is an extensive sectoin before the field guide species entries start that I can just sit down and read. I love all the photos and diagrams of odoanta anatomy, something I do need to learn more, and loved the photos of predation on and from odes as well on pages 15 and 16 (great phtotos!) Very very happy with it, my only problem is that there are no odes out yet, as I immediately wanted to go find some (though I have been giving thought as mentioned in some of the posts on the list about trying to find immature odes in water). Â This being the most comprehensive book I have every bought on dragonflies and damselflies and also the one that covers the biggest region, when thumbing through the species entries there were lots of species I had either never heard of or only had seen a more abbreviated treatment of elsewhere (not a complaint against my other books mind you, as they were either for beginnners and hitting only the ones those starting out most likely might see, or were regional, or simply couldn't match this one for thoroughness and newly documented species). Â I saw that many species have some very limited ranges, at least in the east, and that notes were made that some species may in fact be spreading and/or that more field work needed to be done. The Rainpool Spreawing (page 63) is one such species. Never heard of it before, looks like it might be spreading. Mostly Gulf Coast but one of the splotches on the rain map is much further inland in Mississippi. The page before had a tropical species, the Antlliean Spreadwing; interesting to read about that species, reminds me of how in the birding world many Caribbean birds are found at their northenmost extent in the Florida Keys. Â The Snaketails (page 294 and on) are not a group I have seen yet. I was suprirsed at how limited in distribution some were (one species seems largely confined to central Tennessee and a tiny bit of north Alabama - I will have to see if I can see that one, the Acuminate Snaketail) and others are mostly northerly in distribution. I guess I always thought that the South has any insects the north would have and then some, but it surprises me that several species are pretty much only found in the north. Â The Clubtails, another group sadly I have yet to see, are gorgeous insects! Clearly I need to get out there and find some. Any advice? Â The Ringed Emerald (346) and Hudsonian Emerald (347)....wow. Those insects have some remote distrubtions. The latter species especially, much of its range includes areas of the world with very few people and are remote and hard to reach places. Whitehouse's Emerald - page 350 - what a remote trek that must have been to work with that species. That part of Canada is not exactly densely inhabitated. Love to hear stories about working with these remote northern species. Â I guess one of the problems I run into is that many species need streams or clear running rivers, often with sandy or rocky bottoms. Those are in short supply where I live. Ponds, lakes, large muddy rivers, small forest pools, temporary ponds, duck ponds, smaller muddy creeks, marshes with emergent vegetation, tupelo swamps, all those I have, but not any clear fast water. Â But in closing, fantastic book, I am very glad I bought it. I plan to read the introduction and just browse through the species accounts, something I have found helpful with birding; if you saw the illustrations and photos of a bird enough at home, that just might make that crucial difference one day out in the field. Â Tim
Subject: Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Tim Martin <tf_martn AT bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 11:28:50 -0800 (PST)

Hello Josh: Yes, I have been to the aquarium, a wonderful place, on two occasions, well worth visiting. I know they had eco cruises on the Tennessee River and had thought about going on one this spring. That is very interesting that they have a odonata-centered program. I just might do that, thanks. The aquarium is only about an hour and a half away or so. So what was the location, Falling Water Creek, like? Did you have to wade? Was it on proteced land and did they allow the use of nets? Thanks Tim --- On Mon, 1/9/12, Joshua Rose wrote: From: Joshua Rose Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson To: "Tim Martin" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com" Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 1:04 PM Tim, are you within range of the Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga? Fairly close to the Alabama state line. I ask because there is a gentleman there, Bill Haley, the aquarium's education outreach coordinator, who has a more than passing interest in dragonflies. He brought me in there once to lead a program on odonates, after which we went around looking in some local habitats. He comes to mind in reference to your desire to find clubtails because my first, and to date only, encounter with Least Clubtail (Stylogomphus albistylus) was with Bill, at a spot near his aquarium called Falling Water Creek: http://web.duke.edu/~jsr6/Odepics/Stylogomphus.jpg We encountered a Black-shouldered Spinyleg on the same creek. Later in the afternoon we found a Swift Setwing, which at the time (2002) was unusual for the area, a first county record I think, though since then the species has become more widely recognized around the region. Bill's name and contact info is still on the Aquarium's website: http://www.tennis.org/Education/Outreach.aspx He might still host dragonfly programs occasionally, or if not, maybe could be convinced to get out looking for a few in his free time.... Have fun! Josh Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA opihi AT mindspring.com http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 http://www.facebook.com/opihi
Subject: Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Joshua Rose <opihi AT mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 14:04:48 -0500

Tim, are you within range of the Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga? Fairly close to the Alabama state line. I ask because there is a gentleman there, Bill Haley, the aquarium's education outreach coordinator, who has a more than passing interest in dragonflies. He brought me in there once to lead a program on odonates, after which we went around looking in some local habitats. He comes to mind in reference to your desire to find clubtails because my first, and to date only, encounter with Least Clubtail (Stylogomphus albistylus) was with Bill, at a spot near his aquarium called Falling Water Creek: http://web.duke.edu/~jsr6/Odepics/Stylogomphus.jpg We encountered a Black-shouldered Spinyleg on the same creek. Later in the afternoon we found a Swift Setwing, which at the time (2002) was unusual for the area, a first county record I think, though since then the species has become more widely recognized around the region. Bill's name and contact info is still on the Aquarium's website: http://www.tennis.org/Education/Outreach.aspx He might still host dragonfly programs occasionally, or if not, maybe could be convinced to get out looking for a few in his free time.... Have fun! Josh Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA opihi AT mindspring.com http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 http://www.facebook.com/opihi ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Tim Martin <tf_martn AT bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 09:03:45 -0800 (PST)

Hello Vicki Â Thanks for the tip! I shall read up on Lancet Clubtails in preparation for the coming season. Though I added quite a few to my life list in 2011, I have yet to add either a pennat or Dragonhunter, so I am eager to see and photograph those as well. I know of more places around here to try now, I am going to try those places more often, and I am going to also start earlier in the season. I also still hope to make it to a DSA meeting and a trip to the Smokies in late spring. Â Tim --- On Mon, 1/9/12, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson To: tf_martn AT bellsouth.net Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 5:40 AM Tim - I live next-door in Georgia.Â Lancet clubtails should be common for you as they are very common here.Â 95% of clubtails I find are Lancet's.Â As summer rolls in and Lancet's fade, there are two big clubtails that you'll eventually come across:Â Dragonhunter and Black-shouldered spinyleg.Â Although I've found both in my backyard, their numbers seem to increase in the foothills and mountains.Â If you're ever over here in the North Georgia mountains, Vogel State Park is pretty reliable for Dragonhunter.Â They are so impressive it's worth the drive.Â And if you're a pennant fan like me, Vogel is covered in pennants later in the summer. Â Vicki DeLoach Woodstock, GA Â Â In a message dated 1/8/2012 1:28:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tf_martn AT bellsouth.net writes: Â Hello all, I got my copy last week via UPS from Amazon. Wow! It is a gorgeous book, I love all the photos. Lots of great natural history/behavorial notes too, I enjoyed reading those for several entries. Love the range maps too, always great to have those. I really like also that there is an extensive sectoin before the field guide species entries start that I can just sit down and read. I love all the photos and diagrams of odoanta anatomy, something I do need to learn more, and loved the photos of predation on and from odes as well on pages 15 and 16 (great phtotos!) Very very happy with it, my only problem is that there are no odes out yet, as I immediately wanted to go find some (though I have been giving thought as mentioned in some of the posts on the list about trying to find immature odes in water). Â This being the most comprehensive book I have every bought on dragonflies and damselflies and also the one that covers the biggest region, when thumbing through the species entries there were lots of species I had either never heard of or only had seen a more abbreviated treatment of elsewhere (not a complaint against my other books mind you, as they were either for beginnners and hitting only the ones those starting out most likely might see, or were regional, or simply couldn't match this one for thoroughness and newly documented species). Â I saw that many species have some very limited ranges, at least in the east, and that notes were made that some species may in fact be spreading and/or that more field work needed to be done. The Rainpool Spreawing (page 63) is one such species. Never heard of it before, looks like it might be spreading. Mostly Gulf Coast but one of the splotches on the rain map is much further inland in Mississippi. The page before had a tropical species, the Antlliean Spreadwing; interesting to read about that species, reminds me of how in the birding world many Caribbean birds are found at their northenmost extent in the Florida Keys. Â The Snaketails (page 294 and on) are not a group I have seen yet. I was suprirsed at how limited in distribution some were (one species seems largely confined to central Tennessee and a tiny bit of north Alabama - I will have to see if I can see that one, the Acuminate Snaketail) and others are mostly northerly in distribution. I guess I always thought that the South has any insects the north would have and then some, but it surprises me that several species are pretty much only found in the north. Â The Clubtails, another group sadly I have yet to see, are gorgeous insects! Clearly I need to get out there and find some. Any advice? Â The Ringed Emerald (346) and Hudsonian Emerald (347)....wow. Those insects have some remote distrubtions. The latter species especially, much of its range includes areas of the world with very few people and are remote and hard to reach places. Whitehouse's Emerald - page 350 - what a remote trek that must have been to work with that species. That part of Canada is not exactly densely inhabitated. Love to hear stories about working with these remote northern species. Â I guess one of the problems I run into is that many species need streams or clear running rivers, often with sandy or rocky bottoms. Those are in short supply where I live. Ponds, lakes, large muddy rivers, small forest pools, temporary ponds, duck ponds, smaller muddy creeks, marshes with emergent vegetation, tupelo swamps, all those I have, but not any clear fast water. Â But in closing, fantastic book, I am very glad I bought it. I plan to read the introduction and just browse through the species accounts, something I have found helpful with birding; if you saw the illustrations and photos of a bird enough at home, that just might make that crucial difference one day out in the field. Â Tim
Subject: Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Dan Irizarry <rdirizarry AT gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 07:19:36 -0500

I agree. Dragonhunters are impressive. I has one at the NE DSA meeting munching on an Eastern Tiger Swallowtail. Black-shouldered Spinylegs are neat too. You can search my photostream on Flickr for pictures of them. Http://www.flickr.com/photos/danirizarry I can't wait to go out in search of clubtails this spring! I am sending a photo later of a bluet I saw last night. I'm out of practice! Dan Irizarry Bradenton FL Sent from my iPhone On Jan 9, 2012, at 6:40 AM, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: > Tim - I live next-door in Georgia. Lancet clubtails should be common for you as they are very common here. 95% of clubtails I find are Lancet's. As summer rolls in and Lancet's fade, there are two big clubtails that you'll eventually come across: Dragonhunter and Black-shouldered spinyleg. Although I've found both in my backyard, their numbers seem to increase in the foothills and mountains. If you're ever over here in the North Georgia mountains, Vogel State Park is pretty reliable for Dragonhunter. They are so impressive it's worth the drive. And if you're a pennant fan like me, Vogel is covered in pennants later in the summer. > > Vicki DeLoach > Woodstock, GA > > > In a message dated 1/8/2012 1:28:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tf_martn AT bellsouth.net writes: > > Hello all, I got my copy last week via UPS from Amazon. Wow! It is a gorgeous book, I love all the photos. Lots of great natural history/behavorial notes too, I enjoyed reading those for several entries. Love the range maps too, always great to have those. I really like also that there is an extensive sectoin before the field guide species entries start that I can just sit down and read. I love all the photos and diagrams of odoanta anatomy, something I do need to learn more, and loved the photos of predation on and from odes as well on pages 15 and 16 (great phtotos!) Very very happy with it, my only problem is that there are no odes out yet, as I immediately wanted to go find some (though I have been giving thought as mentioned in some of the posts on the list about trying to find immature odes in water). > > This being the most comprehensive book I have every bought on dragonflies and damselflies and also the one that covers the biggest region, when thumbing through the species entries there were lots of species I had either never heard of or only had seen a more abbreviated treatment of elsewhere (not a complaint against my other books mind you, as they were either for beginnners and hitting only the ones those starting out most likely might see, or were regional, or simply couldn't match this one for thoroughness and newly documented species). > > I saw that many species have some very limited ranges, at least in the east, and that notes were made that some species may in fact be spreading and/or that more field work needed to be done. The Rainpool Spreawing (page 63) is one such species. Never heard of it before, looks like it might be spreading. Mostly Gulf Coast but one of the splotches on the rain map is much further inland in Mississippi. The page before had a tropical species, the Antlliean Spreadwing; interesting to read about that species, reminds me of how in the birding world many Caribbean birds are found at their northenmost extent in the Florida Keys. > > The Snaketails (page 294 and on) are not a group I have seen yet. I was suprirsed at how limited in distribution some were (one species seems largely confined to central Tennessee and a tiny bit of north Alabama - I will have to see if I can see that one, the Acuminate Snaketail) and others are mostly northerly in distribution. I guess I always thought that the South has any insects the north would have and then some, but it surprises me that several species are pretty much only found in the north. > > The Clubtails, another group sadly I have yet to see, are gorgeous insects! Clearly I need to get out there and find some. Any advice? > > The Ringed Emerald (346) and Hudsonian Emerald (347)....wow. Those insects have some remote distrubtions. The latter species especially, much of its range includes areas of the world with very few people and are remote and hard to reach places. Whitehouse's Emerald - page 350 - what a remote trek that must have been to work with that species. That part of Canada is not exactly densely inhabitated. Love to hear stories about working with these remote northern species. > > I guess one of the problems I run into is that many species need streams or clear running rivers, often with sandy or rocky bottoms. Those are in short supply where I live. Ponds, lakes, large muddy rivers, small forest pools, temporary ponds, duck ponds, smaller muddy creeks, marshes with emergent vegetation, tupelo swamps, all those I have, but not any clear fast water. > > But in closing, fantastic book, I am very glad I bought it. I plan to read the introduction and just browse through the species accounts, something I have found helpful with birding; if you saw the illustrations and photos of a bird enough at home, that just might make that crucial difference one day out in the field. > > Tim >
Subject: Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 06:40:55 -0500 (EST)

Tim - I live next-door in Georgia. Lancet clubtails should be common for you as they are very common here. 95% of clubtails I find are Lancet's. As summer rolls in and Lancet's fade, there are two big clubtails that you'll eventually come across: Dragonhunter and Black-shouldered spinyleg. Although I've found both in my backyard, their numbers seem to increase in the foothills and mountains. If you're ever over here in the North Georgia mountains, Vogel State Park is pretty reliable for Dragonhunter. They are so impressive it's worth the drive. And if you're a pennant fan like me, Vogel is covered in pennants later in the summer. Vicki DeLoach Woodstock, GA In a message dated 1/8/2012 1:28:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tf_martn AT bellsouth.net writes: Hello all, I got my copy last week via UPS from Amazon. Wow! It is a gorgeous book, I love all the photos. Lots of great natural history/behavorial notes too, I enjoyed reading those for several entries. Love the range maps too, always great to have those. I really like also that there is an extensive sectoin before the field guide species entries start that I can just sit down and read. I love all the photos and diagrams of odoanta anatomy, something I do need to learn more, and loved the photos of predation on and from odes as well on pages 15 and 16 (great phtotos!) Very very happy with it, my only problem is that there are no odes out yet, as I immediately wanted to go find some (though I have been giving thought as mentioned in some of the posts on the list about trying to find immature odes in water). This being the most comprehensive book I have every bought on dragonflies and damselflies and also the one that covers the biggest region, when thumbing through the species entries there were lots of species I had either never heard of or only had seen a more abbreviated treatment of elsewhere (not a complaint against my other books mind you, as they were either for beginnners and hitting only the ones those starting out most likely might see, or were regional, or simply couldn't match this one for thoroughness and newly documented species). I saw that many species have some very limited ranges, at least in the east, and that notes were made that some species may in fact be spreading and/or that more field work needed to be done. The Rainpool Spreawing (page 63) is one such species. Never heard of it before, looks like it might be spreading. Mostly Gulf Coast but one of the splotches on the rain map is much further inland in Mississippi. The page before had a tropical species, the Antlliean Spreadwing; interesting to read about that species, reminds me of how in the birding world many Caribbean birds are found at their northenmost extent in the Florida Keys. The Snaketails (page 294 and on) are not a group I have seen yet. I was suprirsed at how limited in distribution some were (one species seems largely confined to central Tennessee and a tiny bit of north Alabama - I will have to see if I can see that one, the Acuminate Snaketail) and others are mostly northerly in distribution. I guess I always thought that the South has any insects the north would have and then some, but it surprises me that several species are pretty much only found in the north. The Clubtails, another group sadly I have yet to see, are gorgeous insects! Clearly I need to get out there and find some. Any advice? The Ringed Emerald (346) and Hudsonian Emerald (347)....wow. Those insects have some remote distrubtions. The latter species especially, much of its range includes areas of the world with very few people and are remote and hard to reach places. Whitehouse's Emerald - page 350 - what a remote trek that must have been to work with that species. That part of Canada is not exactly densely inhabitated. Love to hear stories about working with these remote northern species. I guess one of the problems I run into is that many species need streams or clear running rivers, often with sandy or rocky bottoms. Those are in short supply where I live. Ponds, lakes, large muddy rivers, small forest pools, temporary ponds, duck ponds, smaller muddy creeks, marshes with emergent vegetation, tupelo swamps, all those I have, but not any clear fast water. But in closing, fantastic book, I am very glad I bought it. I plan to read the introduction and just browse through the species accounts, something I have found helpful with birding; if you saw the illustrations and photos of a bird enough at home, that just might make that crucial difference one day out in the field. Tim
Subject: Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Tim Martin <tf_martn AT bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 11:42:46 -0800 (PST)

Hello Chris: Come to the DSA meeting this May: http://web.me.com/ecurlew/DSA_2012/Welcome_DSA_2012.html ***I may do that! Or, failing that... 1) get out early in the year - many clubtails only fly early in the spring (April, May, even in March where I live), and only a few fly all summer. ***Thanks, I only found out towards the end of last summer that some species had already stopped flying for the year! 2) find moving water and visit it frequently. Even if you don't have rushing clear gravelly streams, your slow rivers and streams will have their own clubtail species. ***There is some moving water not far from where I live, a small sometimes muddy, sometimes clear stream. Lots of damselflies there but yet to see dragonflies there. I plan to hit a number of times this year. You didn't say where you lived (or if you did, I missed it), but those two steps should find you SOME clubtails. They tend to perch on the ground or rocks or logs more than on plants, and when on plants they are more likely to be flat on a streamside leaf than tee'd up on a grass stem, so they're lot less obvious (and less flashy) than most skimmers. Chasing clubtails will take you to interesting places, though. **Thanks for the advice Chris. I live in Madison, which is near Huntsville, in North Albama. I have nearby lots of places to look for odes, including a state park (Monte Sano), a national widlife refuge (Wheeler), and various other places including a nice public lake and a greenway around a creek. Also the neary botanical garden often has lots of odes with a lake and a large water lily garden. Tim
Subject: Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu>
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 13:58:40 -0500

On Jan 8, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > The Clubtails, another group sadly I have yet to see, are gorgeous > insects! Clearly I need to get out there and find some. Any advice? Come to the DSA meeting this May: http://web.me.com/ecurlew/DSA_2012/Welcome_DSA_2012.html Or, failing that... 1) get out early in the year - many clubtails only fly early in the spring (April, May, even in March where I live), and only a few fly all summer. 2) find moving water and visit it frequently. Even if you don't have rushing clear gravelly streams, your slow rivers and streams will have their own clubtail species. You didn't say where you lived (or if you did, I missed it), but those two steps should find you SOME clubtails. They tend to perch on the ground or rocks or logs more than on plants, and when on plants they are more likely to be flat on a streamside leaf than tee'd up on a grass stem, so they're lot less obvious (and less flashy) than most skimmers. Chasing clubtails will take you to interesting places, though. Chris ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 843-349-2567 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm
Subject: Re: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu>
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 13:41:45 -0500

On Jan 8, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > The Clubtails, another group sadly I have yet to see, are gorgeous > insects! Clearly I need to get out there and find some. Any advice? Come to the DSA meeting this May: http://web.me.com/ecurlew/DSA_2012/Welcome_DSA_2012.html Or, failing that... 1) get out early in the year - many clubtails only fly early in the spring (April, May, even in March where I live), and only a few fly all summer. 2) find moving water and visit it frequently. Even if you don't have rushing clear gravelly streams, your slow rivers and streams will have their own clubtail species. You didn't say where you lived (or if you did, I missed it), but those two steps should find you SOME clubtails. They tend to perch on the ground or rocks or logs more than on plants, and when on plants they are more likely to be flat on a streamside leaf than tee'd up on a grass stem, so they're lot less obvious (and less flashy) than most skimmers. Chasing clubtails will take you to interesting places, though. Chris ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 843-349-2567 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm
Subject: Dragonflies and Damselflies of the East by Dennis Paulson
From: Tim Martin <tf_martn AT bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 10:28:43 -0800 (PST)

Hello all, I got my copy last week via UPS from Amazon. Wow! It is a gorgeous book, I love all the photos. Lots of great natural history/behavorial notes too, I enjoyed reading those for several entries. Love the range maps too, always great to have those. I really like also that there is an extensive sectoin before the field guide species entries start that I can just sit down and read. I love all the photos and diagrams of odoanta anatomy, something I do need to learn more, and loved the photos of predation on and from odes as well on pages 15 and 16 (great phtotos!) Very very happy with it, my only problem is that there are no odes out yet, as I immediately wanted to go find some (though I have been giving thought as mentioned in some of the posts on the list about trying to find immature odes in water). This being the most comprehensive book I have every bought on dragonflies and damselflies and also the one that covers the biggest region, when thumbing through the species entries there were lots of species I had either never heard of or only had seen a more abbreviated treatment of elsewhere (not a complaint against my other books mind you, as they were either for beginnners and hitting only the ones those starting out most likely might see, or were regional, or simply couldn't match this one for thoroughness and newly documented species). I saw that many species have some very limited ranges, at least in the east, and that notes were made that some species may in fact be spreading and/or that more field work needed to be done. The Rainpool Spreawing (page 63) is one such species. Never heard of it before, looks like it might be spreading. Mostly Gulf Coast but one of the splotches on the rain map is much further inland in Mississippi. The page before had a tropical species, the Antlliean Spreadwing; interesting to read about that species, reminds me of how in the birding world many Caribbean birds are found at their northenmost extent in the Florida Keys. The Snaketails (page 294 and on) are not a group I have seen yet. I was suprirsed at how limited in distribution some were (one species seems largely confined to central Tennessee and a tiny bit of north Alabama - I will have to see if I can see that one, the Acuminate Snaketail) and others are mostly northerly in distribution. I guess I always thought that the South has any insects the north would have and then some, but it surprises me that several species are pretty much only found in the north. The Clubtails, another group sadly I have yet to see, are gorgeous insects! Clearly I need to get out there and find some. Any advice? The Ringed Emerald (346) and Hudsonian Emerald (347)....wow. Those insects have some remote distrubtions. The latter species especially, much of its range includes areas of the world with very few people and are remote and hard to reach places. Whitehouse's Emerald - page 350 - what a remote trek that must have been to work with that species. That part of Canada is not exactly densely inhabitated. Love to hear stories about working with these remote northern species. I guess one of the problems I run into is that many species need streams or clear running rivers, often with sandy or rocky bottoms. Those are in short supply where I live. Ponds, lakes, large muddy rivers, small forest pools, temporary ponds, duck ponds, smaller muddy creeks, marshes with emergent vegetation, tupelo swamps, all those I have, but not any clear fast water. But in closing, fantastic book, I am very glad I bought it. I plan to read the introduction and just browse through the species accounts, something I have found helpful with birding; if you saw the illustrations and photos of a bird enough at home, that just might make that crucial difference one day out in the field. Tim
Subject: Variegated Meadowhawk, Florida, 18 December, photo
From: "Roy" <roybrownphotography AT gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:39:35 -0000

Greetings: Generally, a fairly rare vagrant in the Southeast (?), individual record information provided regarding: Sympetrum corruptum - Variegated Meadowhawk, male | St. Marks National Wildlife Refuge, Apalachee Bay, Gulf of Mexico, Northwest Florida, USA | 18 December 2011 Photo, specific location, and record information regarding this individual posted at 3 sites on the web: 1)Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbinv/6539856907/ 2)Odonata Central: http://www.odonatacentral.org/index.php/SubmissionAction.get/submission_id/334725 3)BugGuide: http://bugguide.net/node/view/602433 Best, Roy Brown Albany & Ellijay, Georgia ------------------------------------
Subject: File - yahoo mail help.odt
From: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com
Date: 1 Jan 2012 11:07:07 -0000

File : yahoo mail help.odt Description : Yahoo Mail Spam IMPORTANT!!! ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Lots of Band-winged Dragonlets
From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 13:09:03 -0800

Hi, Dan. Happy New Year to you too! Much envy of your new year conditions at this latitude (but we do have Snowy Owls). Are you seeing many fully mature male dragonlets, black/gray with fully black wing bands? Are you seeing them anywhere at the water? Any indication of breeding? This is a species known to spend the dry season in immature condition in some tropical areas, and I wonder if that might be the case, at least in part, in southern Florida. (Yes, I lived down there for years, but I'm also interested in what's going on right now.) They tend to breed in shallow, marshy seasonal wetlands, so they can't breed in the dry season in many areas, but there are many artificial water bodies in Florida, and I wonder if they might use them through the winter. Watch for Variegated Meadowhawks; they are rare winter visitors in peninsular Florida. You might find a vagrant from the North and another from the South at the same place. Dennis On Dec 30, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Daniel Irizarry wrote: > Hey everyone, > > > Seems like everywhere I look down here in Miami, there are Band-winged Dragonlets EVERYWHERE. A few Scarlet Skimmers, Roseate Skimmers, and Red Saddlebags have been around, but I've seen hundreds of Band-winged Dragonlets! > > Can't wait until Spring time for more ode action. > > Dan Irizarry > > Happy New Year everyone! > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net
Subject: Lots of Band-winged Dragonlets
From: Daniel Irizarry <rdirizarry AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:35:36 -0500

Hey everyone, Seems like everywhere I look down here in Miami, there are Band-winged Dragonlets EVERYWHERE. A few Scarlet Skimmers, Roseate Skimmers, and Red Saddlebags have been around, but I've seen hundreds of Band-winged Dragonlets! Can't wait until Spring time for more ode action. Dan Irizarry Happy New Year everyone!
Subject: Good ode numbers in Fl
From: Dan Irizarry <rdirizarry AT gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 15:25:55 -0500

Hey Everyone. Just took a quick Christmas day walk around the pond in a new park in town. Seen today: Ovipositing - Roseate Skimmer common green darner red/Carolina saddlebags Pin-tailed Pondhawk Teneral Rambur's Forktail and Familiar Bluet along with adults of both citrine Forktail Not too bad for "middle of winter" when it's almost 80 out! Merry Christmas to all and happy holidays. Dan Irizarry Bradenton fl. Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------------
Subject: Fwd: Dragonflies exuviae
From: Will Cook <cwcook AT duke.edu>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:44:07 -0500

Can anyone on SE-Odonata help this fellow out? Thanks, Will Cook - Durham, NC http://www.carolinanature.com/ -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Dragonflies exuviae Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 12:51:15 +0000 From: ewoud van der ploeg Dear mister Cook, At this moment me and a friend and colleague are writing a book called Photographic Guide to the Exuviae of European Dragonflies. Therefore we are now building up our collection of exuviae. Because in western Europe Anax junius sometimes occur, we need to take this species into account as well. In Europe, exuviae of Anax junius are very difficult or impossible to obtain, so we where forced to look for them on the other side of the ocean. We are also looking for exuviae of Pantala flavescens and Ischnura hastata, which also occur in Europe. You might be able to help us in our search for Anax junius exuviae. We would be very thankful if someone could send us some exuviae of Anax junius. Are you able to help us, or do you know anyone who could help? For more information and a few examples of pictures from our project, please have a look at http://www.cbrochard.com/exuviae. The pages we show are just "prototypes", so there might be some textual errors in it and layout will change. I hope you are able to help us and I am looking forward to your reaction. Thanks in advance! Kind regards, Ewoud van der Ploeg, The Netherlands agrius_convolvuli AT hotmail.com ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: what's the deal with Yellow-sided skimmers?
From: Rconnorsphoto AT aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 12:37:11 -0500 (EST)

Vicki, Interesting point. This reminds me of the one good Yellow-sided Skimmer situation that I have found: a spring-fed cattail ditch, at the base of a bank, along the shoulder of the Natchez Trace Parkway in Williamson Co. TN. Parkway maintenance was doing accidental habitat management by mowing here even though the edge is too wet to mow, and the tire track kept a shallow pool of water here that would have otherwise eventually filled in. Anyway, in late July and early August of '05 it was a breeding site with several males and females present, mating, and females egg-laying. I didn't notice anything special about the habitat otherwise, fish-less of course, and the water would be very clean, once the mud cleared. It is always a good spot for forktails, and the only site for Seepage Dancer (Argia bipunctulata) I had known of until a few years ago. This also reminded me that I had never sent in photos to Odonata Central for county record. There are several records from across the state, but I noticed this is so far the only non-Dot Map or UT record, the only user-submitted records (OC# 334678 & 79) so far. Uncommon here if not rare. Richard Connors Nashville TN In a message dated 12/20/2011 7:40:38 A.M. Central Standard Time, VLDELOACH AT aol.com writes: Winter musings on scarce odes ... I'm not sure that I've brought this up before, but I've long wondered where the Yellow-sided skimmers (L. flavida) are hiding? Why are they so scarce? Are they endangered or is it just a species that is low in numbers or has difficult habitat requirements? I've seen one. I rarely see them come through Flickr and I help run the Dragonfly Gallery. I think of skimmers as being some of our most common odes. On a barely related topic, I photographed a female Golden-winged skimmer at my nearby park/wetlands last spring- and she's the only one of this species I've ever seen in the Piedmont. They are not common north of the Fall line, but still - I always find it interesting to find just one of a species at a location. Did she fly in early in the season? or are there so few around here that I finally lucked into one? Ditto with the lone Band-winged meadowhawk I found at the same location (which has been discussed here). Vicki DeLoach Woodstock GA _http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/)
Subject: Re: what's the deal with Yellow-sided skimmers?
From: "SL Brown" <ictinia AT gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:50:54 -0500

Very interesting, Vicki & Josh. Well, here on the lower coastal plain (Charleson county), I am still trying to find a Yellow-sided Skimmer, which would be a lifer. The habitat you describe (Josh) sounds like Magnolia Plantation's Audubon Swamp Garden. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . has anyone seen that species there? Sharon L. Brown ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: what's the deal with Yellow-sided skimmers?
From: Joshua Rose <opihi AT mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:44:06 -0500

Hi Vicki, I lived in NC for about 8 years, watching odonates for most of that time, and never saw a Yellow-sided Skimmer. Various of my friends did, though. I finally saw my first (and then second, and third, and maybe a few more) this past summer in Maryland on one of the trips from the NE regional DSA meeting. I think it is an issue of habitat. They seem to be more specialized than typical backyard skimmers like Slaty, Great Blue, Twelve-spotted, and so on, tolerant of disturbance, living in mud-bottomed canals, garden ponds, and the like. They seem to be partial to areas with sandy soils and Sphagnum moss. I do not think that they breed in Sphagnum-y habitats, but they seem to occur in the same sorts of areas where you often find Sphagnum growing in seeps, springs, boggy pond margins, etc. Dragonflies Through Binoculars notes that the species is more readily found in the coastal plain than in the Piedmont. Cheers, Josh Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA opihi AT mindspring.com http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 http://www.facebook.com/opihi On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:40 AM, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: > > > Winter musings on scarce odes ... > > I'm not sure that I've brought this up before, but I've long wondered where the Yellow-sided skimmers (L. flavida) are hiding? Why are they so scarce? Are they endangered or is it just a species that is low in numbers or has difficult habitat requirements? I've seen one. I rarely see them come through Flickr and I help run the Dragonfly Gallery. I think of skimmers as being some of our most common odes. > > Vicki DeLoach > Woodstock GA > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/ > > ------------------------------------
Subject: what's the deal with Yellow-sided skimmers?
From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:40:25 -0500 (EST)

Winter musings on scarce odes ... I'm not sure that I've brought this up before, but I've long wondered where the Yellow-sided skimmers (L. flavida) are hiding? Why are they so scarce? Are they endangered or is it just a species that is low in numbers or has difficult habitat requirements? I've seen one. I rarely see them come through Flickr and I help run the Dragonfly Gallery. I think of skimmers as being some of our most common odes. On a barely related topic, I photographed a female Golden-winged skimmer at my nearby park/wetlands last spring- and she's the only one of this species I've ever seen in the Piedmont. They are not common north of the Fall line, but still - I always find it interesting to find just one of a species at a location. Did she fly in early in the season? or are there so few around here that I finally lucked into one? Ditto with the lone Band-winged meadowhawk I found at the same location (which has been discussed here). Vicki DeLoach Woodstock GA _http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/)
Subject: Re: Female damsel in November woods
From: Alex Netherton <blueridgediscovery AT charter.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 14:06:02 -0500

I have seen Ebony Jewelwing Damsels miles from water. True, they normally patrol stream banks, but they can often be around mud puddles, seeps, springs, and such places, and I have seen them inexplicably in woods far from water. Even in the near prairie of Henderson, I would suspect that it is hard to get too far from water. Curious little insect. Alex Netherton http://blueridgediscovery.com Asheville NC On 12/15/2011 12:55 PM, kjchilds wrote: > A couple of years ago shortly after thunderstorms with strong winds, I > found a female Ebony Jewelwing here on my farm. The closest stream is > at least 3 miles away so she must have been carried on the winds. > Ken Childs > Henderson, TN > Chester County > > http://www.finishflagfarms.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Tim Martin > *To:* se-odonata List ; Dennis Paulson > > *Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2011 11:02 AM > *Subject:* Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods > > Thank you so much Joshua and Dennis for the ID, I really appreciate it! > I looked at Wikipedia, they said that the Azores population reproduces > by parthenogenesis!! > I hadn't thought of them getting blown around but that makes sense > (insects colonizing remote ocean islands have to have that at least as > help I would imagine). Looking for odes showing up in a non-water > habitat, that sounds like an interesting project actually. Or the rate > at which they colonize a body of water. My Dad's tiny backyard pond > within a year attracted a recurring population of Blue Dashers (as > much as three adult males and assorted females at one time) and > Fragile Forktails and starting this past year gets regular visits from > Slaty Skimmers and Widow Skimmers (thought it appears to have taken > them a few years). > Tim > > --- On *Mon, 12/12/11, Dennis Paulson //* > wrote: > > > From: Dennis Paulson > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods > To: "se-odonata List" > Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 5:33 PM > > Tim, that's a fine mature female Citrine Forktail. They are also > well known to occur long distances from water, possibly blown by > winds or maybe they just wander. This species reached the Azores, > presumably by riding on wind currents (presumably not by hitching > a ride on a boat, but we'll never know). Many odonates move > cross-country and turn up in areas quite far from water. It would > be very interesting to do searches for dragonflies and damselflies > in small patches of woodland in agricultural country at varying > distances from water. I don't know if anyone has done so. But I do > know that if you dig a pond, adult odonates will appear there as > if by magic. Doesn't matter whether it is in an area with abundant > wetlands or out in the Sonoran desert. > > Dennis > > On Dec 12, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > >> If it helps, here is one more shot: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501893891/ >> Thanks again >> Tim >> >> --- On *Mon, 12/12/11, Tim Martin /> >/* >> wrote: >> >> >> From: Tim Martin > > >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods >> To: "Joshua Rose" > >, >> "Dennis Paulson" > > >> Cc: "se-odonata List" > > >> Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 4:59 PM >> >> Citrine, hmmm, that would be a new one for me. I have seen >> Rambur's quite a bit down by the Tennessee River, but I have >> only seen green and the orange ones. I have also never seen a >> damselfly so far from water or in the woods, is that unusual? >> Since everyone else is reporting late season sightings, that >> same day I saw a Slaty Skimmer (or something that looked a >> lot like it, it was large and darkish colored and I >> understand that they do occur in forest ponds). >> Thanks! >> Tim >> >> --- On *Mon, 12/12/11, Dennis Paulson >> /> >/* >> wrote: >> >> >> From: Dennis Paulson > > >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods >> To: "Joshua Rose" > > >> Cc: "se-odonata List" > > >> Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 4:53 PM >> >> Tim, >> >> I would say it's a Citrine Forktail. This species is >> known for a long flight season. >> >> Dennis >> >> >> On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Joshua Rose wrote: >> >>> No, not Argia, the wings are too tight against the body. >>> The coloration points to a female Forktail, Ischnura sp. >>> In Alabama, I would guess at Rambur's (I. ramburii) or >>> possibly Citrine (I. hastata), since it does not look >>> like Fragile.... >>> >>> JSR >>> >>> Joshua Rose, Ph.D. >>> Amherst, MA >>> opihi AT mindspring.com >>> >>> http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 >>> http://www.facebook.com/opihi >>> >>> On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Tim Martin wrote: >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > Hello all, just now got around to downloading from my >>> camera these two shots of a female damselfly I saw in >>> the woods. I photographed it in Huntsville, Alabama in >>> the Wade Mountain Land Trust Preserve on November 19 of >>> this year. There is a pond not that far from it but the >>> actual insect was seen in open woods post-leaf fall. I >>> can tell it is female, maybe Argia, could you please >>> help with the ID? Thanks! >>> > >>> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501777103/ >>> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501776515/ >>> > >>> > Tim >>> > >>> > >> >> ----- >> Dennis Paulson >> 1724 NE 98 St. >> Seattle, WA 98115 >> 206-528-1382 >> dennispaulson AT comcast.net >> >> >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > > > > >
Subject: Re: Female damsel in November woods
From: kjchilds <kjchilds AT yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 09:55:51 -0800 (PST)

A couple of years ago shortly after thunderstorms with strong winds, I found a female Ebony Jewelwing here on my farm. The closest stream is at least 3 miles away so she must have been carried on the winds. Â Ken Childs Henderson, TN Chester County http://www.finishflagfarms.com ________________________________ From: Tim Martin To: se-odonata List ; Dennis Paulson Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods Â Thank you so much Joshua and Dennis for the ID, I really appreciate it! Â I looked at Wikipedia, they said that the Azores population reproduces by parthenogenesis!! Â I hadn't thought of them getting blown around but that makes sense (insects colonizing remote ocean islands have to have that at least as help I would imagine). Looking for odes showing up in a non-water habitat, that sounds like an interesting project actually. Or the rate at which they colonize a body of water. My Dad's tiny backyard pond within a year attracted a recurring population of Blue Dashers (as much as three adult males and assorted females at one time) and Fragile Forktails and starting this past year gets regular visits from Slaty Skimmers and Widow Skimmers (thought it appears to have taken them a few years). Â Tim --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Dennis Paulson wrote: >From: Dennis Paulson >Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods >To: "se-odonata List" >Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 5:33 PM > > >Â >Tim, that's a fine mature female Citrine Forktail. They are also well known to occur long distances from water, possibly blown by winds or maybe they just wander. This species reached the Azores, presumably by riding on wind currents (presumably not by hitching a ride on a boat, but we'll never know). Many odonates move cross-country and turn up in areas quite far from water. It would be very interesting to do searches for dragonflies and damselflies in small patches of woodland in agricultural country at varying distances from water. I don't know if anyone has done so. But I do know that if you dig a pond, adult odonates will appear there as if by magic. Doesn't matter whether it is in an area with abundant wetlands or out in the Sonoran desert. > > >Dennis > > > >On Dec 12, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > >If it helps, here is one more shot: >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501893891/ >>Â >>Thanks again >>Â >>Tim >> >>--- On Mon, 12/12/11, Tim Martin wrote: >> >> >>>From: Tim Martin >>>Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods >>>To: "Joshua Rose" , "Dennis Paulson" >>>Cc: "se-odonata List" >>>Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 4:59 PM >>> >>> >>>Â >>>Citrine, hmmm, that would be a new one for me. I have seen Rambur's quite a bit down by the Tennessee River, but I have only seen green and the orange ones. I have also never seen a damselfly so far from water or in the woods, is that unusual? >>>Â >>>Since everyone else is reporting late season sightings, that same day I saw a Slaty Skimmer (or something that looked a lot like it, it was large and darkish colored and I understand that they do occur in forest ponds). >>>Â >>>Thanks! >>>Â >>>Tim >>> >>>--- On Mon, 12/12/11, Dennis Paulson wrote: >>> >>> >>>>From: Dennis Paulson >>>>Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods >>>>To: "Joshua Rose" >>>>Cc: "se-odonata List" >>>>Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 4:53 PM >>>> >>>> >>>>Â >>>>Tim, >>>> >>>> >>>>I would say it's a Citrine Forktail. This species is known for a long flight season. >>>> >>>> >>>>Dennis >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Joshua Rose wrote: >>>> >>>>Â >>>>>No, not Argia, the wings are too tight against the body. The coloration points to a female Forktail, Ischnura sp. In Alabama, I would guess at Rambur's (I. ramburii) or possibly Citrine (I. hastata), since it does not look like Fragile.... >>>>> >>>>>JSR >>>>> >>>>>Joshua Rose, Ph.D. >>>>>Amherst, MA >>>>>opihi AT mindspring.com >>>>>http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 >>>>>http://www.facebook.com/opihi >>>>> >>>>>On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Tim Martin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello all, just now got around to downloading from my camera these two shots of a female damselfly I saw in the woods. I photographed it in Huntsville, Alabama in the Wade Mountain Land Trust Preserve on November 19 of this year. There is a pond not that far from it but the actual insect was seen in open woods post-leaf fall. I can tell it is female, maybe Argia, could you please help with the ID? Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501777103/ >>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501776515/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Tim >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>----- >>>>Dennis Paulson >>>>1724 NE 98 St. >>>>Seattle, WA 98115 >>>>206-528-1382 >>>>dennispaulson AT comcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > >----- >Dennis Paulson >1724 NE 98 St. >Seattle, WA 98115 >206-528-1382 >dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > >
Subject: Re: Female damsel in November woods
From: Tim Martin <tf_martn AT bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 09:02:38 -0800 (PST)

Thank you so much Joshua and Dennis for the ID, I really appreciate it! Â I looked at Wikipedia, they said that the Azores population reproduces by parthenogenesis!! Â I hadn't thought of them getting blown around but that makes sense (insects colonizing remote ocean islands have to have that at least as help I would imagine). Looking for odes showing up in a non-water habitat, that sounds like an interesting project actually. Or the rate at which they colonize a body of water. My Dad's tiny backyard pond within a year attracted a recurring population of Blue Dashers (as much as three adult males and assorted females at one time) and Fragile Forktails and starting this past year gets regular visits from Slaty Skimmers and Widow Skimmers (thought it appears to have taken them a few years). Â Tim --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods To: "se-odonata List" Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 5:33 PM Â Tim, that's a fine mature female Citrine Forktail. They are also well known to occur long distances from water, possibly blown by winds or maybe they just wander. This species reached the Azores, presumably by riding on wind currents (presumably not by hitching a ride on a boat, but we'll never know). Many odonates move cross-country and turn up in areas quite far from water. It would be very interesting to do searches for dragonflies and damselflies in small patches of woodland in agricultural country at varying distances from water. I don't know if anyone has done so. But I do know that if you dig a pond, adult odonates will appear there as if by magic. Doesn't matter whether it is in an area with abundant wetlands or out in the Sonoran desert. Dennis On Dec 12, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Tim Martin wrote: If it helps, here is one more shot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501893891/ Â Thanks again Â Tim --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Tim Martin wrote: From: Tim Martin Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods To: "Joshua Rose" , "Dennis Paulson" Cc: "se-odonata List" Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 4:59 PM Â Citrine, hmmm, that would be a new one for me. I have seen Rambur's quite a bit down by the Tennessee River, but I have only seen green and the orange ones. I have also never seen a damselfly so far from water or in the woods, is that unusual? Â Since everyone else is reporting late season sightings, that same day I saw a Slaty Skimmer (or something that looked a lot like it, it was large and darkish colored and I understand that they do occur in forest ponds). Â Thanks! Â Tim --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods To: "Joshua Rose" Cc: "se-odonata List" Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 4:53 PM Â Tim, I would say it's a Citrine Forktail. This species is known for a long flight season. Dennis On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Joshua Rose wrote: Â No, not Argia, the wings are too tight against the body. The coloration points to a female Forktail, Ischnura sp. In Alabama, I would guess at Rambur's (I. ramburii) or possibly Citrine (I. hastata), since it does not look like Fragile.... JSR Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA opihi AT mindspring.com http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 http://www.facebook.com/opihi On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > > > Hello all, just now got around to downloading from my camera these two shots of a female damselfly I saw in the woods. I photographed it in Huntsville, Alabama in the Wade Mountain Land Trust Preserve on November 19 of this year. There is a pond not that far from it but the actual insect was seen in open woods post-leaf fall. I can tell it is female, maybe Argia, could you please help with the ID? Thanks! > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501777103/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501776515/ > > Tim > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net
Subject: Re: Variegated Meadowhawk
From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 19:57:43 -0800

Hi, June. Naturally, I don't know exactly why Chris collected the meadowhawk, but I'm all for it, as long as the collecting provided him with some education by doing so. I don't imagine I would have become interested in dragonflies if I couldn't have collected them, identified them in the hand, looked at the specimens under a microscope or hand lens, and learned something about their variation in size and color by actually comparing specimens. There is so much to see on a specimen! Photos are wonderful, and I'm a fanatic photographer, but they're not the same thing as specimens. In this case, what Chris did is to contribute to pure science. We are starting a program to study migratory dragonflies (more on this later), and one of the things we will be doing to learn as much as we can about dragonfly migration in the Americas is to analyze stable isotope ratios in individual dragonflies to get some idea of the latitude at which they emerged. If that meadowhawk was found to have emerged somewhere in northern US, it would be the first hard evidence of that migration ending up in Florida. Chris is going to send one of the wings from his specimen to be analyzed, which is great, as there are not a lot of specimens from Florida. In my field guides, I didn't lay out the full suite of reasons why collecting and collections are so valuable, but I'd be happy to say more about it at any time. By no means is the only value of a specimen the fact that you can identify it. I have worked with collections all my adult life, and they contribute in so many ways. Not only the big series of research specimens in, say, the Smithsonian, but also the individual specimens that amateur odonate aficionados take in order to learn more about the animals they love. Just my opinion, of course. Dennis On Dec 12, 2011, at 6:18 AM, June Tveekrem wrote: > I'm curious - why in the world did you collect it? The dragonfly was > certainly identifiable to species without killing it. Or was it > already dead? > > June > > -- > June Tveekrem > Columbia, MD, U.S. > damselfly|AT|southernspreadwing.com > http://SouthernSpreadwing.com > > On 12/11/2011 11:37 PM, Chris Rasmussen wrote: > > > > > > I actually collected the specimen. The pictures don't show it > > well, but the near fore-wing has a small notch near the middle. > > Other than that, the wings look good. It was an enjoyable find > > and my first for Florida. Thanks for the info. > > > > Chris Rasmussen > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net
Subject: Re: Female damsel in November woods
From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 15:33:41 -0800

Tim, that's a fine mature female Citrine Forktail. They are also well known to occur long distances from water, possibly blown by winds or maybe they just wander. This species reached the Azores, presumably by riding on wind currents (presumably not by hitching a ride on a boat, but we'll never know). Many odonates move cross-country and turn up in areas quite far from water. It would be very interesting to do searches for dragonflies and damselflies in small patches of woodland in agricultural country at varying distances from water. I don't know if anyone has done so. But I do know that if you dig a pond, adult odonates will appear there as if by magic. Doesn't matter whether it is in an area with abundant wetlands or out in the Sonoran desert. Dennis On Dec 12, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > If it helps, here is one more shot: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501893891/ > > Thanks again > > Tim > > --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Tim Martin wrote: > > From: Tim Martin > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods > To: "Joshua Rose" , "Dennis Paulson" > Cc: "se-odonata List" > Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 4:59 PM > > Citrine, hmmm, that would be a new one for me. I have seen Rambur's quite a bit down by the Tennessee River, but I have only seen green and the orange ones. I have also never seen a damselfly so far from water or in the woods, is that unusual? > > Since everyone else is reporting late season sightings, that same day I saw a Slaty Skimmer (or something that looked a lot like it, it was large and darkish colored and I understand that they do occur in forest ponds). > > Thanks! > > Tim > > --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Dennis Paulson wrote: > > From: Dennis Paulson > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods > To: "Joshua Rose" > Cc: "se-odonata List" > Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 4:53 PM > > > Tim, > > I would say it's a Citrine Forktail. This species is known for a long flight season. > > Dennis > > > On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Joshua Rose wrote: > >> >> No, not Argia, the wings are too tight against the body. The coloration points to a female Forktail, Ischnura sp. In Alabama, I would guess at Rambur's (I. ramburii) or possibly Citrine (I. hastata), since it does not look like Fragile.... >> >> JSR >> >> Joshua Rose, Ph.D. >> Amherst, MA >> opihi AT mindspring.com >> http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 >> http://www.facebook.com/opihi >> >> On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Tim Martin wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > Hello all, just now got around to downloading from my camera these two shots of a female damselfly I saw in the woods. I photographed it in Huntsville, Alabama in the Wade Mountain Land Trust Preserve on November 19 of this year. There is a pond not that far from it but the actual insect was seen in open woods post-leaf fall. I can tell it is female, maybe Argia, could you please help with the ID? Thanks! >> > >> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501777103/ >> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501776515/ >> > >> > Tim >> > >> > > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net
Subject: Re: Female damsel in November woods
From: Tim Martin <tf_martn AT bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 15:04:56 -0800 (PST)

If it helps, here is one more shot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501893891/ Â Thanks again Â Tim --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Tim Martin wrote: From: Tim Martin Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods To: "Joshua Rose" , "Dennis Paulson" Cc: "se-odonata List" Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 4:59 PM Â Citrine, hmmm, that would be a new one for me. I have seen Rambur's quite a bit down by the Tennessee River, but I have only seen green and the orange ones. I have also never seen a damselfly so far from water or in the woods, is that unusual? Â Since everyone else is reporting late season sightings, that same day I saw a Slaty Skimmer (or something that looked a lot like it, it was large and darkish colored and I understand that they do occur in forest ponds). Â Thanks! Â Tim --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods To: "Joshua Rose" Cc: "se-odonata List" Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 4:53 PM Â Tim, I would say it's a Citrine Forktail. This species is known for a long flight season. Dennis On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Joshua Rose wrote: Â No, not Argia, the wings are too tight against the body. The coloration points to a female Forktail, Ischnura sp. In Alabama, I would guess at Rambur's (I. ramburii) or possibly Citrine (I. hastata), since it does not look like Fragile.... JSR Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA opihi AT mindspring.com http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 http://www.facebook.com/opihi On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > > > Hello all, just now got around to downloading from my camera these two shots of a female damselfly I saw in the woods. I photographed it in Huntsville, Alabama in the Wade Mountain Land Trust Preserve on November 19 of this year. There is a pond not that far from it but the actual insect was seen in open woods post-leaf fall. I can tell it is female, maybe Argia, could you please help with the ID? Thanks! > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501777103/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501776515/ > > Tim > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net
Subject: Re: Female damsel in November woods
From: Tim Martin <tf_martn AT bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 14:59:24 -0800 (PST)

Citrine, hmmm, that would be a new one for me. I have seen Rambur's quite a bit down by the Tennessee River, but I have only seen green and the orange ones. I have also never seen a damselfly so far from water or in the woods, is that unusual? Â Since everyone else is reporting late season sightings, that same day I saw a Slaty Skimmer (or something that looked a lot like it, it was large and darkish colored and I understand that they do occur in forest ponds). Â Thanks! Â Tim --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Female damsel in November woods To: "Joshua Rose" Cc: "se-odonata List" Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 4:53 PM Â Tim, I would say it's a Citrine Forktail. This species is known for a long flight season. Dennis On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Joshua Rose wrote: Â No, not Argia, the wings are too tight against the body. The coloration points to a female Forktail, Ischnura sp. In Alabama, I would guess at Rambur's (I. ramburii) or possibly Citrine (I. hastata), since it does not look like Fragile.... JSR Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA opihi AT mindspring.com http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 http://www.facebook.com/opihi On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > > > Hello all, just now got around to downloading from my camera these two shots of a female damselfly I saw in the woods. I photographed it in Huntsville, Alabama in the Wade Mountain Land Trust Preserve on November 19 of this year. There is a pond not that far from it but the actual insect was seen in open woods post-leaf fall. I can tell it is female, maybe Argia, could you please help with the ID? Thanks! > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501777103/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501776515/ > > Tim > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net
Subject: Re: Female damsel in November woods
From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 14:53:59 -0800

Tim, I would say it's a Citrine Forktail. This species is known for a long flight season. Dennis On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Joshua Rose wrote: > No, not Argia, the wings are too tight against the body. The coloration points to a female Forktail, Ischnura sp. In Alabama, I would guess at Rambur's (I. ramburii) or possibly Citrine (I. hastata), since it does not look like Fragile.... > > JSR > > Joshua Rose, Ph.D. > Amherst, MA > opihi AT mindspring.com > http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 > http://www.facebook.com/opihi > > On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > > > > > > > Hello all, just now got around to downloading from my camera these two shots of a female damselfly I saw in the woods. I photographed it in Huntsville, Alabama in the Wade Mountain Land Trust Preserve on November 19 of this year. There is a pond not that far from it but the actual insect was seen in open woods post-leaf fall. I can tell it is female, maybe Argia, could you please help with the ID? Thanks! > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501777103/ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501776515/ > > > > Tim > > > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net
Subject: Re: Female damsel in November woods
From: Joshua Rose <opihi AT mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:50:31 -0500

No, not Argia, the wings are too tight against the body. The coloration points to a female Forktail, Ischnura sp. In Alabama, I would guess at Rambur's (I. ramburii) or possibly Citrine (I. hastata), since it does not look like Fragile.... JSR Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA opihi AT mindspring.com http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 http://www.facebook.com/opihi On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Tim Martin wrote: > > > Hello all, just now got around to downloading from my camera these two shots of a female damselfly I saw in the woods. I photographed it in Huntsville, Alabama in the Wade Mountain Land Trust Preserve on November 19 of this year. There is a pond not that far from it but the actual insect was seen in open woods post-leaf fall. I can tell it is female, maybe Argia, could you please help with the ID? Thanks! > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501777103/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501776515/ > > Tim > > ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Female damsel in November woods
From: Tim Martin <tf_martn AT bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 14:46:41 -0800 (PST)

Hello all, just now got around to downloading from my camera these two shots of a female damselfly I saw in the woods. I photographed it in Huntsville, Alabama in the Wade Mountain Land Trust Preserve on November 19 of this year. There is a pond not that far from it but the actual insect was seen in open woods post-leaf fall. I can tell it is female, maybe Argia, could you please help with the ID? Thanks! http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501777103/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/52014195 AT N08/6501776515/ Tim
Subject: Re: Variegated Meadowhawk
From: June Tveekrem <damselfly AT southernspreadwing.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 09:18:30 -0500

I'm curious - why in the world did you collect it? The dragonfly was certainly identifiable to species without killing it. Or was it already dead? June -- June Tveekrem Columbia, MD, U.S. damselfly|AT|southernspreadwing.com http://SouthernSpreadwing.com On 12/11/2011 11:37 PM, Chris Rasmussen wrote: > > > I actually collected the specimen. The pictures don't show it > well, but the near fore-wing has a small notch near the middle. > Other than that, the wings look good. It was an enjoyable find > and my first for Florida. Thanks for the info. > > Chris Rasmussen ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Variegated Meadowhawk
From: Chris Rasmussen <corgone AT ymail.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 20:37:19 -0800 (PST)

I actually collected the specimen. Â The pictures don't show it well, but the near fore-wing has a small notch near the middle. Â Other than that, the wings look good. Â It was an enjoyable find and my first for Florida. Â Thanks for the info. Chris Rasmussen ________________________________ From: Dennis Paulson To: "corgone AT ymail.com" Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Variegated Meadowhawk This is just the time migrant V. Meadowhawks turn up along the Gulf coast of Florida, presumably coming from somewhere well to the north and west and perhaps carried by winds. It is very interesting to monitor them and report all you see, as we're trying to get a handle on the migration of this species. Do your photos show any wing wear at all? Dennis ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net On Dec 11, 2011, at 2:07 PM, corgone AT ymail.com wrote: Â >While doing a little birding today, I photographed a female Variegated Meadowhawk in Pinellas county FL. > >Chris Rasmussen >Brandon, FL > > >
Subject: Re: Larva - question
From: kjchilds <kjchilds AT yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 17:45:54 -0800 (PST)

Cats and their curiosity! I started to chase her off and then decided that leaving her in the shot would give an idea of the size of my drag. Â Ken Childs Henderson, TN Chester County http://www.finishflagfarms.com ________________________________ From: Alex Netherton To: kjchilds Cc: SE-Odonata Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Larva - question Â Looks good for catching cats too, or at least their attention! On 12/11/2011 12:25 PM, kjchilds wrote: Â >Since we're on the subject, I thought I'd share my drag. Officially around here this is known as a Crawdad Drag but it works great for finding out what lives in the local ponds and swamps. I made this out of a basket from an old dishwasher, some hardware cloth and an old extending swimming pool pole. Most of west TN is red clay so getting close to ponds and swamps means you'll usually be sinking deeply into sucking mud. The extending handle allows me to drag without having to get knee deep into the muck. I can also sample deeper areas. > > > >As Alex said, you never know what you'll find. Newts, baby turtles, mosquitofish, pygmy sunfish, bluegill, bantam sunfish, grass shrimp, fishing spiders and even swamp darters are common finds in my area. If you want to see something amazing, release a fishing spider on the water where there are aquatic weeds. It will start walking across the surface and then it will literally walk into the water! > >Â >Ken Childs >Henderson, TN >Chester County > > >http://www.finishflagfarms.com > > >________________________________ > From: Alex Netherton >To: Joshua Rose >Cc: se-odonata List >Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:31 AM >Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Larva - question > > >Â >Great answer Josh. The only real way to see is to take a small net and go scooping. For really small stuff, get a tea strainer, the kind that goes over a cup, and bend back the ears so you can dip a small way into the substrate. Dragonfly and Damselfly nymphs are famously cryptic, and are often hidden in the detritus waiting for prey. Get all the old leaves, plant stems, bottom detritus and maybe a small bit of sand (or clay, depending on where you are) and place the mess in a small dish pan. Get several loads, and then go hunting. If you keep an inch or two of water in the pan, the invertebrates will start coming out due to the disturbance, and if you start taking out the bigger chunks, eliminating hiding places, more will be revealed. For larger specimens, a larger kitchen strainer can really be revealing. >I grabbed a bunch of leaves from Lake Osceola in Henderson County NC one December, and found a large nymph, looked pretty mature. Just sorted through the leaves, and there it was. December in Western NC can get c-o-l-d! >All manner of inverts can be found in this way, and sometimes a vertebrate will surprise you; I got a baby turtle in a tea strainer once! Salamanders come up often. Seed Shrimp, Daphnia, Copepods, and other inverts are common, even occasionally fish fry or Mosquitofish will come up in the dredge. >Not being an Odonatologist but a generalist (Jack-of-All-Trades, master of none), I can mostly only tell the difference between Damsel and Dragonfly, but some on this list can tell you right down to species, for some if you have a good close up series of photos, some species, of course, requiring the insect be in the hands of the Biologist. >A tea strainer, kitchen strainer and a dishpan are one of the most fun and educational combinations in the world. Add in a group of children from Kindergarten to High School, and you can have a great time, and fill a whole day with discovery! Wow, one might think I have done this before... >Alex Netherton >http://blueridgediscovery.com >Asheville NC > >On 12/11/2011 10:24 AM, Joshua Rose wrote: >Â >>Hi Vicki, >> >>Complex question. For anyone who has a copy of Philip Corbet's 1999 "Dragonflies: Behavior and Ecology of Odonata", this topic runs from page 52 to 61. Anyone who does not, start saving up for one, it lists at about $120 and is worth every penny.... >> >>Quick and dirty answer is that it depends on the species. >> >>There is a graph on page 58 of Corbet captioned "Rate of development of Sympetrum vicinum in relation to temperature in the overwintering egg... South Carolina, USA". So yes, Sympetrum apparently does overwinter in the egg. >> >>Many, perhaps even most, odonates have adaptations to deal with drought, and actually prefer breeding in waters that dry up seasonally (vernals pools, ephemeral streams, etc.) to those that contain water year-round (because the latter usually harbor fish that eat odonate eggs and larvae). Eggs, larvae, and even adult odonates can enter diapause and remain more or less dormant through dry spells until things get wet again. Some of the eggs laid may have remained eggs through the drying cycle, waiting to hatch until after the slough refilled. Larvae that hatched before the slough dried may have burrowed down into the mud themselves, or used the burrows of other animals such as crawdads for shelter, or just sheltered under leaf litter and detritus. >> >>The only circumstance where I would expect significant numbers of odonates to die would be if the slough was normally wet year-round, and so inhabited by species adapted to permanent water (and able to coexist with fish), and the slough drying out in August was a highly unusual occurrence that had not happened in a decade or more.... >> >>Some species of odonate nymphs can be visible in clear water with a fair amount of patience. However, they have very effective camouflage, and often do not move unless forced to do so. If you scoop with a net you will doubtless catch 10 larvae or more, maybe even 100, for every one that you could see without scooping. If they were too easy to see in clear water, they would not last long, they would get picked off in short order by herons, egrets, bitterns, kingfishers, rails, ducks, grebes, and so on. >> >>Have fun, >> >>Josh >> >>Joshua Rose, Ph.D. >>Amherst, MA >>opihi AT mindspring.com >>http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 >>http://www.facebook.com/opihi >> >>On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:25 AM, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> If I were to scoop water from the slough that was so popular with odes this season, what would I find? Would all species be nymphs now, or would the later species (Sympetrum) remain as eggs through the winter? Are the nymphs visible in clear water or do you have to scoop to find them? And lastly, the slough went dry in August ... did all those eggs laid through the spring/summer die at that time? >>> >>> Vicki DeLoach >>> Woodstock, GA >>> >> >> > >
Subject: Re: Larva - question - thanks!
From: Joshua Rose <opihi AT mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 20:04:28 -0500

Yeah, if you're looking for company to go dip-netting, kids work great. If you have none in your family, check with the nearest schools. If you do not want any kids along, the teachers might still be interested in coming along as a test run before doing a field trip with their students sometime later... JSR Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA opihi AT mindspring.com http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 http://www.facebook.com/opihi On Dec 11, 2011, at 7:09 PM, Alex Netherton wrote: > > > Oh gosh, I wish I could drive over. I have done this literally hundreds of times. As I said, get a group of children, doesn't matter the age (5+ is best), best group size is around 8 to 10, and have a wonderful day in the field! > Alex Netherton > http://blueridgediscovery.com > Asheville NC > > On 12/11/2011 3:27 PM, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: >> >> Thanks Josh, Alex and Ken! I'm trying to talk my husband into doing this with me. If he's not interested I may have to hope that Marion will get so bored this winter that she'll be up for a drive over my way to show me the ropes. And I'm sure Marion has much higher priority projects than this ;-) Vicki >> >> Vicki DeLoach >> Woodstock, GA >> >> In a message dated 12/11/2011 2:50:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, opihi AT mindspring.com writes: >> >> Maybe worth adding, Alex suggested a dish pan, the best is the old metal pans with the white enamel finish, wide and shallow, something like this: >> >> http://img2.etsystatic.com/il_570xN.273281290.jpg >> >> The white background makes it easier to pick out well-camouflaged critters from the plants and detritus in which they are trying to hide. A clear baking pan with a white towel or sheet of paper underneath works almost as well. >> >> Have fun! >> >> JSR >> >> >> On Dec 11, 2011, at 12:25 PM, kjchilds wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > Since we're on the subject, I thought I'd share my drag. Officially around here this is known as a Crawdad Drag but it works great for finding out what lives in the local ponds and swamps. I made this out of a basket from an old dishwasher, some hardware cloth and an old extending swimming pool pole. Most of west TN is red clay so getting close to ponds and swamps means you'll usually be sinking deeply into sucking mud. The extending handle allows me to drag without having to get knee deep into the muck. I can also sample deeper areas. >> > >> > As Alex said, you never know what you'll find. Newts, baby turtles, mosquitofish, pygmy sunfish, bluegill, bantam sunfish, grass shrimp, fishing spiders and even swamp darters are common finds in my area. If you want to see something amazing, release a fishing spider on the water where there are aquatic weeds. It will start walking across the surface and then it will literally walk into the water! >> > >> > Ken Childs >> > Henderson, TN >> > Chester County >> > >> > http://www.finishflagfarms.com >> > From: Alex Netherton >> > To: Joshua Rose >> > Cc: se-odonata List >> > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:31 AM >> > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Larva - question >> > >> > Great answer Josh. The only real way to see is to take a small net and go scooping. For really small stuff, get a tea strainer, the kind that goes over a cup, and bend back the ears so you can dip a small way into the substrate. Dragonfly and Damselfly nymphs are famously cryptic, and are often hidden in the detritus waiting for prey. Get all the old leaves, plant stems, bottom detritus and maybe a small bit of sand (or clay, depending on where you are) and place the mess in a small dish pan. Get several loads, and then go hunting. If you keep an inch or two of water in the pan, the invertebrates will start coming out due to the disturbance, and if you start taking out the bigger chunks, eliminating hiding places, more will be revealed. For larger specimens, a larger kitchen strainer can really be revealing. >> > I grabbed a bunch of leaves from Lake Osceola in Henderson County NC one December, and found a large nymph, looked pretty mature. Just sorted through the leaves, and there it was. December in Western NC can get c-o-l-d! >> > All manner of inverts can be found in this way, and sometimes a vertebrate will surprise you; I got a baby turtle in a tea strainer once! Salamanders come up often. Seed Shrimp, Daphnia, Copepods, and other inverts are common, even occasionally fish fry or Mosquitofish will come up in the dredge. >> > Not being an Odonatologist but a generalist (Jack-of-All-Trades, master of none), I can mostly only tell the difference between Damsel and Dragonfly, but some on this list can tell you right down to species, for some if you have a good close up series of photos, some species, of course, requiring the insect be in the hands of the Biologist. >> > A tea strainer, kitchen strainer and a dishpan are one of the most fun and educational combinations in the world. Add in a group of children from Kindergarten to High School, and you can have a great time, and fill a whole day with discovery! Wow, one might think I have done this before... >> > Alex Netherton >> > http://blueridgediscovery.com >> > Asheville NC >> > >> > On 12/11/2011 10:24 AM, Joshua Rose wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Vicki, >> >> >> >> Complex question. For anyone who has a copy of Philip Corbet's 1999 "Dragonflies: Behavior and Ecology of Odonata", this topic runs from page 52 to 61. Anyone who does not, start saving up for one, it lists at about $120 and is worth every penny.... >> >> >> >> Quick and dirty answer is that it depends on the species. >> >> >> >> There is a graph on page 58 of Corbet captioned "Rate of development of Sympetrum vicinum in relation to temperature in the overwintering egg... South Carolina, USA". So yes, Sympetrum apparently does overwinter in the egg. >> >> >> >> Many, perhaps even most, odonates have adaptations to deal with drought, and actually prefer breeding in waters that dry up seasonally (vernals pools, ephemeral streams, etc.) to those that contain water year-round (because the latter usually harbor fish that eat odonate eggs and larvae). Eggs, larvae, and even adult odonates can enter diapause and remain more or less dormant through dry spells until things get wet again. Some of the eggs laid may have remained eggs through the drying cycle, waiting to hatch until after the slough refilled. Larvae that hatched before the slough dried may have burrowed down into the mud themselves, or used the burrows of other animals such as crawdads for shelter, or just sheltered under leaf litter and detritus. >> >> >> >> The only circumstance where I would expect significant numbers of odonates to die would be if the slough was normally wet year-round, and so inhabited by species adapted to permanent water (and able to coexist with fish), and the slough drying out in August was a highly unusual occurrence that had not happened in a decade or more.... >> >> >> >> Some species of odonate nymphs can be visible in clear water with a fair amount of patience. However, they have very effective camouflage, and often do not move unless forced to do so. If you scoop with a net you will doubtless catch 10 larvae or more, maybe even 100, for every one that you could see without scooping. If they were too easy to see in clear water, they would not last long, they would get picked off in short order by herons, egrets, bitterns, kingfishers, rails, ducks, grebes, and so on. >> >> >> >> Have fun, >> >> >> >> Josh >> >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:25 AM, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > If I were to scoop water from the slough that was so popular with odes this season, what would I find? Would all species be nymphs now, or would the later species (Sympetrum) remain as eggs through the winter? Are the nymphs visible in clear water or do you have to scoop to find them? And lastly, the slough went dry in August ... did all those eggs laid through the spring/summer die at that time? >> >> > >> >> > Vicki DeLoach >> >> > Woodstock, GA >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > > > ------------------------------------
Subject: coastal Charleston county
From: "SL Brown" <ictinia AT gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:25:33 -0500

The season has been mostly over for a while, but I am still seeing somewhat smallish (relative to their summer size) Common Green Darners now & then, including a fairly large number of them at Donnelley WMA a week ago. I saw a single Wandering Glider this week at Edisto Beach . . . and in a smallish pond behind an Edisto Island housing development, saw a very large darner-sized, uniformly very dark-bodied dragonfly with teneral/glassy wings that I simply could not ID. It was patrolling the small pond, flying just over the surface of the water. Sharon L. Brown
Subject: Re: Larva - question - thanks!
From: Alex Netherton <blueridgediscovery AT charter.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:09:45 -0500

Oh gosh, I wish I could drive over. I have done this literally hundreds of times. As I said, get a group of children, doesn't matter the age (5+ is best), best group size is around 8 to 10, and have a wonderful day in the field! Alex Netherton http://blueridgediscovery.com Asheville NC On 12/11/2011 3:27 PM, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: > > Thanks Josh, Alex and Ken! I'm trying to talk my husband into doing > this with me. If he's not interested I may have to hope that Marion > will get so bored this winter that she'll be up for a drive over my > way to show me the ropes. And I'm sure Marion has much higher > priority projects than this ;-) Vicki > Vicki DeLoach > Woodstock, GA > In a message dated 12/11/2011 2:50:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > opihi AT mindspring.com writes: > > Maybe worth adding, Alex suggested a dish pan, the best is the old > metal pans with the white enamel finish, wide and shallow, > something like this: > > http://img2.etsystatic.com/il_570xN.273281290.jpg > > The white background makes it easier to pick out well-camouflaged > critters from the plants and detritus in which they are trying to > hide. A clear baking pan with a white towel or sheet of paper > underneath works almost as well. > > Have fun! > > JSR > > Joshua Rose, Ph.D. > Amherst, MA > opihi AT mindspring.com > http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 > http://www.facebook.com/opihi > > On Dec 11, 2011, at 12:25 PM, kjchilds wrote: > > > > > > > Since we're on the subject, I thought I'd share my drag. > Officially around here this is known as a Crawdad Drag but it > works great for finding out what lives in the local ponds and > swamps. I made this out of a basket from an old dishwasher, some > hardware cloth and an old extending swimming pool pole. Most of > west TN is red clay so getting close to ponds and swamps means > you'll usually be sinking deeply into sucking mud. The extending > handle allows me to drag without having to get knee deep into the > muck. I can also sample deeper areas. > > > > As Alex said, you never know what you'll find. Newts, baby > turtles, mosquitofish, pygmy sunfish, bluegill, bantam sunfish, > grass shrimp, fishing spiders and even swamp darters are common > finds in my area. If you want to see something amazing, release a > fishing spider on the water where there are aquatic weeds. It will > start walking across the surface and then it will literally walk > into the water! > > > > Ken Childs > > Henderson, TN > > Chester County > > > > http://www.finishflagfarms.com > > From: Alex Netherton > > > To: Joshua Rose > > > Cc: se-odonata List > > > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:31 AM > > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Larva - question > > > > Great answer Josh. The only real way to see is to take a small > net and go scooping. For really small stuff, get a tea strainer, > the kind that goes over a cup, and bend back the ears so you can > dip a small way into the substrate. Dragonfly and Damselfly nymphs > are famously cryptic, and are often hidden in the detritus waiting > for prey. Get all the old leaves, plant stems, bottom detritus and > maybe a small bit of sand (or clay, depending on where you are) > and place the mess in a small dish pan. Get several loads, and > then go hunting. If you keep an inch or two of water in the pan, > the invertebrates will start coming out due to the disturbance, > and if you start taking out the bigger chunks, eliminating hiding > places, more will be revealed. For larger specimens, a larger > kitchen strainer can really be revealing. > > I grabbed a bunch of leaves from Lake Osceola in Henderson > County NC one December, and found a large nymph, looked pretty > mature. Just sorted through the leaves, and there it was. December > in Western NC can get c-o-l-d! > > All manner of inverts can be found in this way, and sometimes a > vertebrate will surprise you; I got a baby turtle in a tea > strainer once! Salamanders come up often. Seed Shrimp, Daphnia, > Copepods, and other inverts are common, even occasionally fish fry > or Mosquitofish will come up in the dredge. > > Not being an Odonatologist but a generalist (Jack-of-All-Trades, > master of none), I can mostly only tell the difference between > Damsel and Dragonfly, but some on this list can tell you right > down to species, for some if you have a good close up series of > photos, some species, of course, requiring the insect be in the > hands of the Biologist. > > A tea strainer, kitchen strainer and a dishpan are one of the > most fun and educational combinations in the world. Add in a group > of children from Kindergarten to High School, and you can have a > great time, and fill a whole day with discovery! Wow, one might > think I have done this before... > > Alex Netherton > > http://blueridgediscovery.com > > Asheville NC > > > > On 12/11/2011 10:24 AM, Joshua Rose wrote: > >> > >> Hi Vicki, > >> > >> Complex question. For anyone who has a copy of Philip Corbet's > 1999 "Dragonflies: Behavior and Ecology of Odonata", this topic > runs from page 52 to 61. Anyone who does not, start saving up for > one, it lists at about $120 and is worth every penny.... > >> > >> Quick and dirty answer is that it depends on the species. > >> > >> There is a graph on page 58 of Corbet captioned "Rate of > development of Sympetrum vicinum in relation to temperature in the > overwintering egg... South Carolina, USA". So yes, Sympetrum > apparently does overwinter in the egg. > >> > >> Many, perhaps even most, odonates have adaptations to deal with > drought, and actually prefer breeding in waters that dry up > seasonally (vernals pools, ephemeral streams, etc.) to those that > contain water year-round (because the latter usually harbor fish > that eat odonate eggs and larvae). Eggs, larvae, and even adult > odonates can enter diapause and remain more or less dormant > through dry spells until things get wet again. Some of the eggs > laid may have remained eggs through the drying cycle, waiting to > hatch until after the slough refilled. Larvae that hatched before > the slough dried may have burrowed down into the mud themselves, > or used the burrows of other animals such as crawdads for shelter, > or just sheltered under leaf litter and detritus. > >> > >> The only circumstance where I would expect significant numbers > of odonates to die would be if the slough was normally wet > year-round, and so inhabited by species adapted to permanent water > (and able to coexist with fish), and the slough drying out in > August was a highly unusual occurrence that had not happened in a > decade or more.... > >> > >> Some species of odonate nymphs can be visible in clear water > with a fair amount of patience. However, they have very effective > camouflage, and often do not move unless forced to do so. If you > scoop with a net you will doubtless catch 10 larvae or more, maybe > even 100, for every one that you could see without scooping. If > they were too easy to see in clear water, they would not last > long, they would get picked off in short order by herons, egrets, > bitterns, kingfishers, rails, ducks, grebes, and so on. > >> > >> Have fun, > >> > >> Josh > >> > >> > >> On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:25 AM, VLDELOACH AT aol.com > wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > If I were to scoop water from the slough that was so popular > with odes this season, what would I find? Would all species be > nymphs now, or would the later species (Sympetrum) remain as eggs > through the winter? Are the nymphs visible in clear water or do > you have to scoop to find them? And lastly, the slough went dry in > August ... did all those eggs laid through the spring/summer die > at that time? > >> > > >> > Vicki DeLoach > >> > Woodstock, GA > >> > > >> > > > >
Subject: Re: Larva - question
From: Alex Netherton <blueridgediscovery AT charter.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 18:58:41 -0500

White is the best color; when buying for a class, I usually buy a white plastic dish pan about 9"x9". It is true that cryptically colored little beings show up much better against white. On 12/11/2011 2:50 PM, Joshua Rose wrote: > > Maybe worth adding, Alex suggested a dish pan, the best is the old > metal pans with the white enamel finish, wide and shallow, something > like this: > > http://img2.etsystatic.com/il_570xN.273281290.jpg > > The white background makes it easier to pick out well-camouflaged > critters from the plants and detritus in which they are trying to > hide. A clear baking pan with a white towel or sheet of paper > underneath works almost as well. > > Have fun! > > JSR > > Joshua Rose, Ph.D. > Amherst, MA > opihi AT mindspring.com > http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 > http://www.facebook.com/opihi > > On Dec 11, 2011, at 12:25 PM, kjchilds wrote: > > > > > > > Since we're on the subject, I thought I'd share my drag. Officially > around here this is known as a Crawdad Drag but it works great for > finding out what lives in the local ponds and swamps. I made this out > of a basket from an old dishwasher, some hardware cloth and an old > extending swimming pool pole. Most of west TN is red clay so getting > close to ponds and swamps means you'll usually be sinking deeply into > sucking mud. The extending handle allows me to drag without having to > get knee deep into the muck. I can also sample deeper areas. > > > > As Alex said, you never know what you'll find. Newts, baby turtles, > mosquitofish, pygmy sunfish, bluegill, bantam sunfish, grass shrimp, > fishing spiders and even swamp darters are common finds in my area. If > you want to see something amazing, release a fishing spider on the > water where there are aquatic weeds. It will start walking across the > surface and then it will literally walk into the water! > > > > Ken Childs > > Henderson, TN > > Chester County > > > > http://www.finishflagfarms.com > > From: Alex Netherton > > > To: Joshua Rose > > > Cc: se-odonata List > > > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:31 AM > > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Larva - question > > > > Great answer Josh. The only real way to see is to take a small net > and go scooping. For really small stuff, get a tea strainer, the kind > that goes over a cup, and bend back the ears so you can dip a small > way into the substrate. Dragonfly and Damselfly nymphs are famously > cryptic, and are often hidden in the detritus waiting for prey. Get > all the old leaves, plant stems, bottom detritus and maybe a small bit > of sand (or clay, depending on where you are) and place the mess in a > small dish pan. Get several loads, and then go hunting. If you keep an > inch or two of water in the pan, the invertebrates will start coming > out due to the disturbance, and if you start taking out the bigger > chunks, eliminating hiding places, more will be revealed. For larger > specimens, a larger kitchen strainer can really be revealing. > > I grabbed a bunch of leaves from Lake Osceola in Henderson County NC > one December, and found a large nymph, looked pretty mature. Just > sorted through the leaves, and there it was. December in Western NC > can get c-o-l-d! > > All manner of inverts can be found in this way, and sometimes a > vertebrate will surprise you; I got a baby turtle in a tea strainer > once! Salamanders come up often. Seed Shrimp, Daphnia, Copepods, and > other inverts are common, even occasionally fish fry or Mosquitofish > will come up in the dredge. > > Not being an Odonatologist but a generalist (Jack-of-All-Trades, > master of none), I can mostly only tell the difference between Damsel > and Dragonfly, but some on this list can tell you right down to > species, for some if you have a good close up series of photos, some > species, of course, requiring the insect be in the hands of the Biologist. > > A tea strainer, kitchen strainer and a dishpan are one of the most > fun and educational combinations in the world. Add in a group of > children from Kindergarten to High School, and you can have a great > time, and fill a whole day with discovery! Wow, one might think I have > done this before... > > Alex Netherton > > http://blueridgediscovery.com > > Asheville NC > > > > On 12/11/2011 10:24 AM, Joshua Rose wrote: > >> > >> Hi Vicki, > >> > >> Complex question. For anyone who has a copy of Philip Corbet's 1999 > "Dragonflies: Behavior and Ecology of Odonata", this topic runs from > page 52 to 61. Anyone who does not, start saving up for one, it lists > at about $120 and is worth every penny.... > >> > >> Quick and dirty answer is that it depends on the species. > >> > >> There is a graph on page 58 of Corbet captioned "Rate of > development of Sympetrum vicinum in relation to temperature in the > overwintering egg... South Carolina, USA". So yes, Sympetrum > apparently does overwinter in the egg. > >> > >> Many, perhaps even most, odonates have adaptations to deal with > drought, and actually prefer breeding in waters that dry up seasonally > (vernals pools, ephemeral streams, etc.) to those that contain water > year-round (because the latter usually harbor fish that eat odonate > eggs and larvae). Eggs, larvae, and even adult odonates can enter > diapause and remain more or less dormant through dry spells until > things get wet again. Some of the eggs laid may have remained eggs > through the drying cycle, waiting to hatch until after the slough > refilled. Larvae that hatched before the slough dried may have > burrowed down into the mud themselves, or used the burrows of other > animals such as crawdads for shelter, or just sheltered under leaf > litter and detritus. > >> > >> The only circumstance where I would expect significant numbers of > odonates to die would be if the slough was normally wet year-round, > and so inhabited by species adapted to permanent water (and able to > coexist with fish), and the slough drying out in August was a highly > unusual occurrence that had not happened in a decade or more.... > >> > >> Some species of odonate nymphs can be visible in clear water with a > fair amount of patience. However, they have very effective camouflage, > and often do not move unless forced to do so. If you scoop with a net > you will doubtless catch 10 larvae or more, maybe even 100, for every > one that you could see without scooping. If they were too easy to see > in clear water, they would not last long, they would get picked off in > short order by herons, egrets, bitterns, kingfishers, rails, ducks, > grebes, and so on. > >> > >> Have fun, > >> > >> Josh > >> > >> > >> On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:25 AM, VLDELOACH AT aol.com > wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > If I were to scoop water from the slough that was so popular with > odes this season, what would I find? Would all species be nymphs now, > or would the later species (Sympetrum) remain as eggs through the > winter? Are the nymphs visible in clear water or do you have to scoop > to find them? And lastly, the slough went dry in August ... did all > those eggs laid through the spring/summer die at that time? > >> > > >> > Vicki DeLoach > >> > Woodstock, GA > >> > > >> > > > >
Subject: Re: Larva - question
From: Alex Netherton <blueridgediscovery AT charter.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 18:52:51 -0500

Looks good for catching cats too, or at least their attention! On 12/11/2011 12:25 PM, kjchilds wrote: > Since we're on the subject, I thought I'd share my drag. Officially > around here this is known as a Crawdad Drag but it works great for > finding out what lives in the local ponds and swamps. I made this out > of a basket from an old dishwasher, some hardware cloth and an old > extending swimming pool pole. Most of west TN is red clay so getting > close to ponds and swamps means you'll usually be sinking deeply into > sucking mud. The extending handle allows me to drag without having to > get knee deep into the muck. I can also sample deeper areas. > > As Alex said, you never know what you'll find. Newts, baby turtles, > mosquitofish, pygmy sunfish, bluegill, bantam sunfish, grass shrimp, > fishing spiders and even swamp darters are common finds in my area. If > you want to see something amazing, release a fishing spider on the > water where there are aquatic weeds. It will start walking across the > surface and then it will literally walk into the water! > Ken Childs > Henderson, TN > Chester County > > http://www.finishflagfarms.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Alex Netherton > *To:* Joshua Rose > *Cc:* se-odonata List > *Sent:* Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:31 AM > *Subject:* Re: [se-odonata] Larva - question > > Great answer Josh. The only real way to see is to take a small net and > go scooping. For really small stuff, get a tea strainer, the kind that > goes over a cup, and bend back the ears so you can dip a small way > into the substrate. Dragonfly and Damselfly nymphs are famously > cryptic, and are often hidden in the detritus waiting for prey. Get > all the old leaves, plant stems, bottom detritus and maybe a small bit > of sand (or clay, depending on where you are) and place the mess in a > small dish pan. Get several loads, and then go hunting. If you keep an > inch or two of water in the pan, the invertebrates will start coming > out due to the disturbance, and if you start taking out the bigger > chunks, eliminating hiding places, more will be revealed. For larger > specimens, a larger kitchen strainer can really be revealing. > I grabbed a bunch of leaves from Lake Osceola in Henderson County NC > one December, and found a large nymph, looked pretty mature. Just > sorted through the leaves, and there it was. December in Western NC > can get c-o-l-d! > All manner of inverts can be found in this way, and sometimes a > vertebrate will surprise you; I got a baby turtle in a tea strainer > once! Salamanders come up often. Seed Shrimp, Daphnia, Copepods, and > other inverts are common, even occasionally fish fry or Mosquitofish > will come up in the dredge. > Not being an Odonatologist but a generalist (Jack-of-All-Trades, > master of none), I can mostly only tell the difference between Damsel > and Dragonfly, but some on this list can tell you right down to > species, for some if you have a good close up series of photos, some > species, of course, requiring the insect be in the hands of the Biologist. > A tea strainer, kitchen strainer and a dishpan are one of the most fun > and educational combinations in the world. Add in a group of children > from Kindergarten to High School, and you can have a great time, and > fill a whole day with discovery! Wow, one might think I have done this > before... > Alex Netherton > http://blueridgediscovery.com > Asheville NC > > On 12/11/2011 10:24 AM, Joshua Rose wrote: >> Hi Vicki, >> >> Complex question. For anyone who has a copy of Philip Corbet's 1999 >> "Dragonflies: Behavior and Ecology of Odonata", this topic runs from >> page 52 to 61. Anyone who does not, start saving up for one, it lists >> at about $120 and is worth every penny.... >> >> Quick and dirty answer is that it depends on the species. >> >> There is a graph on page 58 of Corbet captioned "Rate of development >> of Sympetrum vicinum in relation to temperature in the overwintering >> egg... South Carolina, USA". So yes, Sympetrum apparently does >> overwinter in the egg. >> >> Many, perhaps even most, odonates have adaptations to deal with >> drought, and actually prefer breeding in waters that dry up >> seasonally (vernals pools, ephemeral streams, etc.) to those that >> contain water year-round (because the latter usually harbor fish that >> eat odonate eggs and larvae). Eggs, larvae, and even adult odonates >> can enter diapause and remain more or less dormant through dry spells >> until things get wet again. Some of the eggs laid may have remained >> eggs through the drying cycle, waiting to hatch until after the >> slough refilled. Larvae that hatched before the slough dried may have >> burrowed down into the mud themselves, or used the burrows of other >> animals such as crawdads for shelter, or just sheltered under leaf >> litter and detritus. >> >> The only circumstance where I would expect significant numbers of >> odonates to die would be if the slough was normally wet year-round, >> and so inhabited by species adapted to permanent water (and able to >> coexist with fish), and the slough drying out in August was a highly >> unusual occurrence that had not happened in a decade or more.... >> >> Some species of odonate nymphs can be visible in clear water with a >> fair amount of patience. However, they have very effective >> camouflage, and often do not move unless forced to do so. If you >> scoop with a net you will doubtless catch 10 larvae or more, maybe >> even 100, for every one that you could see without scooping. If they >> were too easy to see in clear water, they would not last long, they >> would get picked off in short order by herons, egrets, bitterns, >> kingfishers, rails, ducks, grebes, and so on. >> >> Have fun, >> >> Josh >> >> Joshua Rose, Ph.D. >> Amherst, MA >> opihi AT mindspring.com >> http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 >> http://www.facebook.com/opihi >> >> On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:25 AM, VLDELOACH AT aol.com >> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > If I were to scoop water from the slough that was so popular with >> odes this season, what would I find? Would all species be nymphs now, >> or would the later species (Sympetrum) remain as eggs through the >> winter? Are the nymphs visible in clear water or do you have to scoop >> to find them? And lastly, the slough went dry in August ... did all >> those eggs laid through the spring/summer die at that time? >> > >> > Vicki DeLoach >> > Woodstock, GA >> > >> > > >
Subject: Re: Variegated Meadowhawk
From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 14:22:37 -0800

This is just the time migrant V. Meadowhawks turn up along the Gulf coast of Florida, presumably coming from somewhere well to the north and west and perhaps carried by winds. It is very interesting to monitor them and report all you see, as we're trying to get a handle on the migration of this species. Do your photos show any wing wear at all? Dennis ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net On Dec 11, 2011, at 2:07 PM, corgone AT ymail.com wrote: > While doing a little birding today, I photographed a female Variegated Meadowhawk in Pinellas county FL. > > Chris Rasmussen > Brandon, FL > >
Subject: Variegated Meadowhawk
From: "corgone AT ymail.com" <corgone@ymail.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 22:07:55 -0000

While doing a little birding today, I photographed a female Variegated Meadowhawk in Pinellas county FL. Chris Rasmussen Brandon, FL ------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Larva - question - thanks!
From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 15:27:07 -0500 (EST)

Thanks Josh, Alex and Ken! I'm trying to talk my husband into doing this with me. If he's not interested I may have to hope that Marion will get so bored this winter that she'll be up for a drive over my way to show me the ropes. And I'm sure Marion has much higher priority projects than this ;-) Vicki Vicki DeLoach Woodstock, GA In a message dated 12/11/2011 2:50:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, opihi AT mindspring.com writes: Maybe worth adding, Alex suggested a dish pan, the best is the old metal pans with the white enamel finish, wide and shallow, something like this: _http://img2.etsystatic.com/il_570xN.273281290.jpg_ (http://img2.etsystatic.com/il_570xN.273281290.jpg) The white background makes it easier to pick out well-camouflaged critters from the plants and detritus in which they are trying to hide. A clear baking pan with a white towel or sheet of paper underneath works almost as well. Have fun! JSR Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA _opihi AT mindspring.com_ (mailto:opihi AT mindspring.com) _http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399_ (http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399) _http://www.facebook.com/opihi_ (http://www.facebook.com/opihi) On Dec 11, 2011, at 12:25 PM, kjchilds wrote: > > > Since we're on the subject, I thought I'd share my drag. Officially around here this is known as a Crawdad Drag but it works great for finding out what lives in the local ponds and swamps. I made this out of a basket from an old dishwasher, some hardware cloth and an old extending swimming pool pole. Most of west TN is red clay so getting close to ponds and swamps means you'll usually be sinking deeply into sucking mud. The extending handle allows me to drag without having to get knee deep into the muck. I can also sample deeper areas. > > As Alex said, you never know what you'll find. Newts, baby turtles, mosquitofish, pygmy sunfish, bluegill, bantam sunfish, grass shrimp, fishing spiders and even swamp darters are common finds in my area. If you want to see something amazing, release a fishing spider on the water where there are aquatic weeds. It will start walking across the surface and then it will literally walk into the water! > > Ken Childs > Henderson, TN > Chester County > > _http://www.finishflagfarms.com_ (http://www.finishflagfarms.com/) > From: Alex Netherton <_blueridgediscovery AT charter.net_ (mailto:blueridgediscovery AT charter.net) > > To: Joshua Rose <_opihi AT mindspring.com_ (mailto:opihi AT mindspring.com) > > Cc: se-odonata List <_se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com) > > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:31 AM > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Larva - question > > Great answer Josh. The only real way to see is to take a small net and go scooping. For really small stuff, get a tea strainer, the kind that goes over a cup, and bend back the ears so you can dip a small way into the substrate. Dragonfly and Damselfly nymphs are famously cryptic, and are often hidden in the detritus waiting for prey. Get all the old leaves, plant stems, bottom detritus and maybe a small bit of sand (or clay, depending on where you are) and place the mess in a small dish pan. Get several loads, and then go hunting. If you keep an inch or two of water in the pan, the invertebrates will start coming out due to the disturbance, and if you start taking out the bigger chunks, eliminating hiding places, more will be revealed. For larger specimens, a larger kitchen strainer can really be revealing. > I grabbed a bunch of leaves from Lake Osceola in Henderson County NC one December, and found a large nymph, looked pretty mature. Just sorted through the leaves, and there it was. December in Western NC can get c-o-l-d! > All manner of inverts can be found in this way, and sometimes a vertebrate will surprise you; I got a baby turtle in a tea strainer once! Salamanders come up often. Seed Shrimp, Daphnia, Copepods, and other inverts are common, even occasionally fish fry or Mosquitofish will come up in the dredge. > Not being an Odonatologist but a generalist (Jack-of-All-Trades, master of none), I can mostly only tell the difference between Damsel and Dragonfly, but some on this list can tell you right down to species, for some if you have a good close up series of photos, some species, of course, requiring the insect be in the hands of the Biologist. > A tea strainer, kitchen strainer and a dishpan are one of the most fun and educational combinations in the world. Add in a group of children from Kindergarten to High School, and you can have a great time, and fill a whole day with discovery! Wow, one might think I have done this before... > Alex Netherton > _http://blueridgediscovery.com_ (http://blueridgediscovery.com/) > Asheville NC > > On 12/11/2011 10:24 AM, Joshua Rose wrote: >> >> Hi Vicki, >> >> Complex question. For anyone who has a copy of Philip Corbet's 1999 "Dragonflies: Behavior and Ecology of Odonata", this topic runs from page 52 to 61. Anyone who does not, start saving up for one, it lists at about $120 and is worth every penny.... >> >> Quick and dirty answer is that it depends on the species. >> >> There is a graph on page 58 of Corbet captioned "Rate of development of Sympetrum vicinum in relation to temperature in the overwintering egg... South Carolina, USA". So yes, Sympetrum apparently does overwinter in the egg. >> >> Many, perhaps even most, odonates have adaptations to deal with drought, and actually prefer breeding in waters that dry up seasonally (vernals pools, ephemeral streams, etc.) to those that contain water year-round (because the latter usually harbor fish that eat odonate eggs and larvae). Eggs, larvae, and even adult odonates can enter diapause and remain more or less dormant through dry spells until things get wet again. Some of the eggs laid may have remained eggs through the drying cycle, waiting to hatch until after the slough refilled. Larvae that hatched before the slough dried may have burrowed down into the mud themselves, or used the burrows of other animals such as crawdads for shelter, or just sheltered under leaf litter and detritus. >> >> The only circumstance where I would expect significant numbers of odonates to die would be if the slough was normally wet year-round, and so inhabited by species adapted to permanent water (and able to coexist with fish), and the slough drying out in August was a highly unusual occurrence that had not happened in a decade or more.... >> >> Some species of odonate nymphs can be visible in clear water with a fair amount of patience. However, they have very effective camouflage, and often do not move unless forced to do so. If you scoop with a net you will doubtless catch 10 larvae or more, maybe even 100, for every one that you could see without scooping. If they were too easy to see in clear water, they would not last long, they would get picked off in short order by herons, egrets, bitterns, kingfishers, rails, ducks, grebes, and so on. >> >> Have fun, >> >> Josh >> >> >> On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:25 AM, _VLDELOACH AT aol.com_ (mailto:VLDELOACH AT aol.com) wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > If I were to scoop water from the slough that was so popular with odes this season, what would I find? Would all species be nymphs now, or would the later species (Sympetrum) remain as eggs through the winter? Are the nymphs visible in clear water or do you have to scoop to find them? And lastly, the slough went dry in August ... did all those eggs laid through the spring/summer die at that time? >> > >> > Vicki DeLoach >> > Woodstock, GA >> > >> >
Subject: Re: Larva - question
From: Joshua Rose <opihi AT mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 14:50:41 -0500

Maybe worth adding, Alex suggested a dish pan, the best is the old metal pans with the white enamel finish, wide and shallow, something like this: http://img2.etsystatic.com/il_570xN.273281290.jpg The white background makes it easier to pick out well-camouflaged critters from the plants and detritus in which they are trying to hide. A clear baking pan with a white towel or sheet of paper underneath works almost as well. Have fun! JSR Joshua Rose, Ph.D. Amherst, MA opihi AT mindspring.com http://bugguide.net/user/view/2399 http://www.facebook.com/opihi On Dec 11, 2011, at 12:25 PM, kjchilds wrote: > > > Since we're on the subject, I thought I'd share my drag. Officially around here this is known as a Crawdad Drag but it works great for finding out what lives in the local ponds and swamps. I made this out of a basket from an old dishwasher, some hardware cloth and an old extending swimming pool pole. Most of west TN is red clay so getting close to ponds and swamps means you'll usually be sinking deeply into sucking mud. The extending handle allows me to drag without having to get knee deep into the muck. I can also sample deeper areas. > > As Alex said, you never know what you'll find. Newts, baby turtles, mosquitofish, pygmy sunfish, bluegill, bantam sunfish, grass shrimp, fishing spiders and even swamp darters are common finds in my area. If you want to see something amazing, release a fishing spider on the water where there are aquatic weeds. It will start walking across the surface and then it will literally walk into the water! > > Ken Childs > Henderson, TN > Chester County > > http://www.finishflagfarms.com > From: Alex Netherton > To: Joshua Rose > Cc: se-odonata List > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:31 AM > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Larva - question > > Great answer Josh. The only real way to see is to take a small net and go scooping. For really small stuff, get a tea strainer, the kind that goes over a cup, and bend back the ears so you can dip a small way into the substrate. Dragonfly and Damselfly nymphs are famously cryptic, and are often hidden in the detritus waiting for prey. Get all the old leaves, plant stems, bottom detritus and maybe a small bit of sand (or clay, depending on where you are) and place the mess in a small dish pan. Get several loads, and then go hunting. If you keep an inch or two of water in the pan, the invertebrates will start coming out due to the disturbance, and if you start taking out the bigger chunks, eliminating hiding places, more will be revealed. For larger specimens, a larger kitchen strainer can really be revealing. > I grabbed a bunch of leaves from Lake Osceola in Henderson County NC one December, and found a large nymph, looked pretty mature. Just sorted through the leaves, and there it was. December in Western NC can get c-o-l-d! > All manner of inverts can be found in this way, and sometimes a vertebrate will surprise you; I got a baby turtle in a tea strainer once! Salamanders come up often. Seed Shrimp, Daphnia, Copepods, and other inverts are common, even occasionally fish fry or Mosquitofish will come up in the dredge. > Not being an Odonatologist but a generalist (Jack-of-All-Trades, master of none), I can mostly only tell the difference between Damsel and Dragonfly, but some on this list can tell you right down to species, for some if you have a good close up series of photos, some species, of course, requiring the insect be in the hands of the Biologist. > A tea strainer, kitchen strainer and a dishpan are one of the most fun and educational combinations in the world. Add in a group of children from Kindergarten to High School, and you can have a great time, and fill a whole day with discovery! Wow, one might think I have done this before... > Alex Netherton > http://blueridgediscovery.com > Asheville NC > > On 12/11/2011 10:24 AM, Joshua Rose wrote: >> >> Hi Vicki, >> >> Complex question. For anyone who has a copy of Philip Corbet's 1999 "Dragonflies: Behavior and Ecology of Odonata", this topic runs from page 52 to 61. Anyone who does not, start saving up for one, it lists at about $120 and is worth every penny.... >> >> Quick and dirty answer is that it depends on the species. >> >> There is a graph on page 58 of Corbet captioned "Rate of development of Sympetrum vicinum in relation to temperature in the overwintering egg... South Carolina, USA". So yes, Sympetrum apparently does overwinter in the egg. >> >> Many, perhaps even most, odonates have adaptations to deal with drought, and actually prefer breeding in waters that dry up seasonally (vernals pools, ephemeral streams, etc.) to those that contain water year-round (because the latter usually harbor fish that eat odonate eggs and larvae). Eggs, larvae, and even adult odonates can enter diapause and remain more or less dormant through dry spells until things get wet again. Some of the eggs laid may have remained eggs through the drying cycle, waiting to hatch until after the slough refilled. Larvae that hatched before the slough dried may have burrowed down into the mud themselves, or used the burrows of other animals such as crawdads for shelter, or just sheltered under leaf litter and detritus. >> >> The only circumstance where I would expect significant numbers of odonates to die would be if the slough was normally wet year-round, and so inhabited by species adapted to permanent water (and able to coexist with fish), and the slough drying out in August was a highly unusual occurrence that had not happened in a decade or more.... >> >> Some species of odonate nymphs can be visible in clear water with a fair amount of patience. However, they have very effective camouflage, and often do not move unless forced to do so. If you scoop with a net you will doubtless catch 10 larvae or more, maybe even 100, for every one that you could see without scooping. If they were too easy to see in clear water, they would not last long, they would get picked off in short order by herons, egrets, bitterns, kingfishers, rails, ducks, grebes, and so on. >> >> Have fun, >> >> Josh >> >> >> On Dec 11, 2011, at 9:25 AM, VLDELOACH AT aol.com wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > If I were to scoop water from the slough that was so popular with odes this season, what would I find? Would all species be nymphs now, or would the later species (Sympetrum) remain as eggs through the winter? Are the nymphs visible in clear water or do you have to scoop to find them? And lastly, the slough went dry in August ... did all those eggs laid through the spring/summer die at that time? >> > >> > Vicki DeLoach >> > Woodstock, GA >> > >> > ------------------------------------

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